7.62x54R vs. no "R" question (Mosin Nagant)


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MyRoad
March 25, 2006, 04:02 PM
Short Question:
Can you fire 7.62x54 (non-rimmed) from a Mosin Nagant?

Long Story:
I have a Mosin Nagant M44. I was picking up ammo, and I accidentally got a can of Chinese 7.62x54. It's not marked "7.62x54R" so my understanding is that the shells are not rimmed. A guy I know who has quite a few milsurp rifles said that a Mosin Nagant will shoot rimmed or unrimmed with no problem, but I'd rather not open the can and find out he's wrong. I'm wondering because I've never seen any mention of a Mosin Nagant that did not specify the R in the ammo requirement. I have no other guns that shoot this round, and if I can't use it I'd rather sell it as a sealed can than break it open just to test it.

Thanks for the help!

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R.W.Dale
March 25, 2006, 04:10 PM
Are you shure the box doesn't say 7.61x51 possibly? I for one have never heard of a 7.62x54 round without a rim.

aguyindallas
March 25, 2006, 04:11 PM
I also have never heard of it without the "R".

Perhaps ask the place that you bought the ammo from.

R.W.Dale
March 25, 2006, 04:16 PM
Another thought on the subject. ALL 7.62x54 should be a rimmed cartrige, so when stamping ammo crates some armories consider the "R" designation to be redundant.

MyRoad
March 25, 2006, 04:24 PM
OK, sorry guys, I didn't read it carefully. It's mostly in Chinese, but the only numbers on the can are "56", "7.62" (and then "460", which I assume is the round count).

I guess I'll try to sell or trade it. What's a can of Chinese 7.62x56 worth?

R.W.Dale
March 25, 2006, 04:30 PM
Where do you get 7.62x56 ???? 7.62mm ammunition made in 1956 how does that equate to 7.62x56

possum
March 25, 2006, 04:31 PM
Speaking of places putting the wrong labels on the box I have also seen cases of ammo that was really 7.62x 54r but the box said x56, i don't remember what country it was from though. yeah there is no 7.62x54 with out a rim.

MyRoad
March 25, 2006, 04:45 PM
OK, I'll try a different approach...

What kind of ammo is this?

http://www.xlr8nrg.com/images2/ammo_can.jpg

EDIT: I did a quick search, and it seems 7.62x56 = "303 enfield ball"... I guess I'll learn as I go.

akodo
March 25, 2006, 05:31 PM
pop her open and post a pic of the round.

I suspect you did successfully buy 7.62x54R. When one type fo 7.62 chambering is 10000 times more likely to be manufactured, asked for, needed, and handled, it is pretty common for the people who are dealing with it to drop the x54R

Cosmoline
March 25, 2006, 05:38 PM
Looks to me like a tin of 7.62x39 for the Type 56 Chinese SKS

MyRoad
March 25, 2006, 06:07 PM
Looks to me like a tin of 7.62x39 for the Type 56 Chinese SKS

Bingo. I need to keep my ammo better organized.

Dave Markowitz
March 25, 2006, 09:31 PM
EDIT: I did a quick search, and it seems 7.62x56 = "303 enfield ball"... I guess I'll learn as I go.

The metric designation for .303 British is 7.7x51mm.

Also, the guy who said that a Mosin can shoot rimmed or rimless rounds has no idea what he's talking about. Unless it's been rebarreled and the action modified, Mosins shoot 7.62x54R, period.

The_Antibubba
March 25, 2006, 09:42 PM
7.62X54R vs 7.62X53R?

Sorry, I couldn't resist. :neener:

Gewehr98
March 25, 2006, 09:47 PM
That looks like a tin of 7.62x39 ammo, I've opened more than a few I've bought when the ammo was dirt cheap a decade ago. Open 'er up, it's not like you're gonna have a hard time selling off milsurp 7.62x39 these days. Hell, I'll buy it from you, and I normally reload all my 7.62x39. ;)

redneck2
March 25, 2006, 09:57 PM
yeah there is no 7.62x54 with out a rim.

Uh....isn't the metric for 30-06 7.62x54???

Gewehr98
March 25, 2006, 10:06 PM
Uh....isn't the metric for 30-06 7.62x54???

Nope. Take your vernier calipers, and measure that .30-06 case length. You're about 10mm shy.

Proper metric terminology for the .30-06 is 7.62x63, sometimes referred to as 7.62x64, since the .30-06 case is 63.35mm in length.

R.W.Dale
March 25, 2006, 10:52 PM
The metric designation for .303 British is 7.7x51mm

NOPE, The japanese designation was 7.7x58r, the italians called it 7.7 breda both contries used it in avation applications.
NOW
7.62x51R is 30-30 win

7.62x64 is 30-06

7.7x51R is 303 savage NOT british

7.62x33m1 is 30 carbine

11.45x23mm is 45 acp

White Horseradish
March 25, 2006, 10:59 PM
R at the end of the 7.62x54 is a Western convention. In the former ComBloc it's just 7.62x54. I have never heard of an rimless version.

As to the markings on the can, keep in mind that until 7.62x39 became widely adopted there were only three 7.62 to worry about there - rifle, pistol and revolver. I have also seen 7.62x39 called "automatic rifle 7.62" .

MyRoad
March 26, 2006, 02:15 AM
Thanks for the education. There is no shortage of misinformation around, whether I'm talking to people in gunstores, or searching online. If you do a search for "7.62x56" you'll find all kinds of incorrect information online, that's what I did. There are charts on various websites that contradict each other - especially concerning what 303 and 308 are in terms of 7.62xXX - makes the learning curve a bit steeper. Thanks again for setting the record straight.

Cosmoline
March 26, 2006, 02:45 AM
It's a good example of how the metric system isn't any cure for confusion. The archaic old imperial system designations have the advantage of clearly distinguishing between the cartridges, which is in the final analysis the main point of cartridge designations.

possum
March 26, 2006, 06:55 PM
Uh....isn't the metric for 30-06 7.62x54???


"Nope. Take your vernier calipers, and measure that .30-06 case length. You're about 10mm shy."

Thanks Gewehr98 you got to it before i could. if you check out a reloading manual. You will see that there is like was stated above about 10mm difference.

mp510
March 27, 2006, 01:05 AM
The Chinese SKS is the Type 56. It fires the 7.62x39mm round. I don't no any Chinese, so everything that I am saying is pure speculation. I believe that 460 is the round count. Generally, 7.62x54 is packed 440 to a tin. 7-70 very well could equate to a date of July 1970. That would put it in a very common time for x39 ammo. If it is Chinese 7.62x39, be happy to get that stuff. No longer available due to the AP import ban:)

At a recent gun show, I saw a tin of Chinese surplus AP ball, and it was that color.

Heed Caution.

Also note, 7.7x56= .303 British

BigG
March 27, 2006, 09:01 AM
The French used a 7.62X54 before they surrendered. It was rimless.

EDIT: Brainfade is alive and well. I believe the French round was denominated 7.5mm, even though it used 308 caliber projectiles.

AH-1
March 27, 2006, 11:32 AM
the finn's named their ammo 7.62X53R and just about anyone one else used 7.62X54R.
if you look at a the head stamp of laupa brass it is stamped 7.62X53R.
pete

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