[Jeeper]

I am just wondering if the more experienced reloaders go near the max anymore. When I started loading about 10 years ago I used to make everything near max. Now I am definately going lighter. I only load my 225 hot since it is for prarie dogs and that is where all the accuracy is with that load. Just curious if anyone else has had the same change of heart about reloading?

[Bacchus]

I am by no means an experienced reloader, as I've only been doing this for a few years. But I never reload to the max--I just don't see the point. I reload to save money, which ultimately allows me to practice more often. I don't care about velocity when all I'm doing is target shooting.

[HSMITH]

It really depends on what I want to do. My practice loads are pretty light for handguns, I load some HOT boomers for fun and wow factor. My rifle loads are accurate, and range anywhere from upper midrange to warm, where it starts stacking bullets AND I have the velocity I need I stop. Shotguns I shoot light loads for targets and heavy max loads for hunting if I can finagle a pattern that will do what I need it to do.

NONE of my loads are over published maximums. Seems I have always had or bought a bigger gun if I needed more gun instead of loading up what might get the job done without blowing up.

[HankB]

It depends.

For my 1911, I load 230 grain cast bullets to around 840 ft/sec - pretty much duplicating standard factory "hardball" velocity.

In my .30/06, I find max loads give best accuracy with a 180 grain bullet and RL22 powder, so that's what I use. ("Max" in the context of maximum SAFE load, with no signs of excess pressure. And without exceeding published data.) Ditto for my .375 H&H, with either 270 or 300 grain bullets and W760 powder.

Oddly enough, I find that chronographed velocities of my "max" loads are no more than a bit higher than factory ammo is supposed to produce. But factory rifle ammo seems to consistently produce 150 - 250 ft/sec below what's claimed.

On the other hand, in my .308's (an M1A and a FAL) I just try to duplicate military ball ballistics using powders of medium burning rate - gas guns are sensitive to things like gas port pressure, and trying to "max" out a load isn't wise.

Max loads have changed over the years. Pick up a reloading manual from, say, 1970 and compare with one today. You'll find a few changes - almost invariably, recommended powder charges have been cut back.

[Fatelvis]

No. I dont find it nesissary to load hot. The little extra velocity gained, isnt worth the wear and tear on the gun.

[Arub]

I'm not an experienced loader and I don't load on the hot side. Usually load at 90% level. For J-frame .357 magnumus I drop down to 85% for comfort level.

[jjmorgan64]

The great majority of the time, no.

every once in a while in the right gun, 454 comes to mind, well;)

[dodgestdshift]

An interesting thing happened to me. I started out many years ago with "medium" loads. Now when I look at certain manuals that are more current, my loads have "heated" up. This surprises me no end, since I notice little change in velocity or recoil. Maybe it is ALS, Almighty lawyer syndrome.

[Standing Wolf]

When I started loading my own ammunition in the late 1970s, I figured the maximum loads listed were there to challenge me.

I never blew up a gun, but exceeded safe pressure levels a few times, then happened to see a nearly new Ruger revolver that had been blown up by hot rod loads. It was in a gun shop, along with some fresh used guns and reloading equipment. Apparently, the guy hadn't been badly injured, but suddenly decided he was all done shooting.

I decided I'd go to bigger calibers instead of bigger loads.

[Mike Irwin]

Some of my loads, worked up very carefully over a number of years, go well over some of my books.

[bedlamite]

I've been known to push my 44 Redhawk above book loads, but not so high that the brass sticks. Everything else usually stays 5-10% below published max.

[WESHOOT2]

sounds of insane laughter still echoing..................

[Desert Dog]

I have some thunderboomers specifically for .45 Super/Colt that are on the hairy edge of SAAMI, then I have the kittycat loads that I shoot for the occasional target practice with the wife (not a gunner, but not an anti either) or new shooters... THEN, I have loads all over the pressure range loaded for superb accuracy...

I never load rifle rounds for max velocity, only accuracy....

ya see... it depends... :rolleyes: :D

Mike

[mtnbkr]

My only "hot" load is well over what is published in loading guides, but chrono's out around the same level as factory loads in the same class. I worked up slowly (.25gr to .5gr at a time) and used a chrono to check my work. For every 50 of these, I'll shoot 100+ light loads.

Otherwise, my loads tend to be mild and for plinking. I don't load for rifle yet, but I doubt I'll go particularly hot there either.

Chris

[eddieleon]

All of my loads are within the published limits. Seldom do I find any accuracy increase past the next lowest from max loads.

Some friends load for max velocity. I don't unless accuracy is improved. It seldom is.

[Guy B. Meredith]

I find that with West Coast Bullets copper plated .38s, Starline or Remington brass and Winchester WSP primers I am consistently loading over max published values to get the listed velocity.

I do load the .38s for 850 fps and shoot only in a revolver chambered for .357 magnum. The M66 consistently runs 50 fps or so faster than the 627 and 686 with the same load.

[WalkerTexasRanger]

NO. Enough on that...

[Clark]

I like to find out how much safety margin there is before I carry a load.
I work up an overload to see what happens.
Some caliber / gun combinations have lots of safety margin, and some have almost none.

I carry some guns with twice the powder charge of the highest book loads, but there are some gun / cartridges like the CZ52 / 7.62x25mm, that I would not consider carrying with .1 gr extra powder.

With bolt rifles, I only overload the ones I can safely. '98 Masusers can get allot more power than the IMR load guide says.

While with a 260, the book loads are right up against the limit of the brass already.

[dakotasin]

i keep going hotter until accuracy degrades. in most cases, that puts me just under listed max. in a couple of cases, i am well over listed max.

i let the gun tell me where it wants to be.

[444]

Sure, I load at max. And I have exceeded book max. loads on occasion. But, the majority of my shooting and handloading is done at much more moderate levels. In fact I have spent the last few years experimenting with very light rifle loads that are so light, they are not much louder than clapping your hands.
I have guns that I bought just to shoot hot loads out of. For example, in .44 Mag I have three. Two Smiths and one Ruger SBH. The SBH was purchased to exploit everything the .44 Mag has to offer. The Smiths only get .44 Special loads. They are hot loads for .44 Special but well below anything that would be considered hot in a .44 Mag. I also own a Ruger Redhawk and a Ruger Blackhawk in .357 mag. These are shot with max loads or not shot at all. I have another half dozen .357 revolvers that see a steady diet of cast bullets and moderate velocities. In my .30-06s, I shoot a lot of mild cast loads, but when I hunt I use an absolute max load with a 150 grain bullet at 3000 fps. I never saw the point to shooting my .338 Win Mag with anything less than full .338 loads. My .444 Marlin has shot it's share of monster loads, but the recoil is so severe that unless I am getting ready for a hunt, I shoot basically moderate .44 mag type loads in it.

This is all the beauty of handloading. You tailor your load for the purpose at hand. You don't have to stick with just one load.

[Trisha]

I load to the best accuracy a given assembled round will achieve in a specific firearm. Occasionally, the result is a load approaching the upper limit - but I see no point in doing it deliberately.

Loading practice ammo for tactical drills, I have matched premium ammo performance, and that gets warm.

I do it out of the simple delight of practicing meticulous perfectionism - I find it soothing.

[happy old sailor]

38's and below stay in the middle ground. .357 and above are near max, not at or over. when the shooting day is about done, i bring out the .44 SBH and SRH for some "earthquake" loads. fire a cylinder or two of these, just for fun. and a good time was had by all.

for myself, the lesser loads are the more accurate. and, i do admire accuracy.

[braindead0]

earschplittenloudenboomer comes to mind. I've done some pretty heavy loads for my GP-100 and I worked with a friend creating some 325gr .44 magnum loads for his Super Redhawk that were, shall we say....a bit hot.

I think with the right gun, and careful work you can do it with a reasonable level of safety.

Of course, might as well just buy a bigger gun ;-)

[Bottom Gun]

I think that even the max loads published are softened a bit to allow for a safety factor.
I've compared some of the older reloading manuals to the most recent ones and have noticed the max loads in older manuals are considerably hotter in some cases.
Maybe the powder formulations have changed, maybe the publishers are just more liability conscious these days.
I would always get data from a second source though before loading anything since loading manuals have been known to contain typos.
I've noticed considerable differences in load data between my Lyman and my Lee manuals for example.

[bogie]

Heh, I run my .22 Ratdog at 3590fps, and I've run a 6BR with 55 grainers up at 4,100 fps. DO NOT try this yourselves...

[JollyWhiteGiant]

For my rifle loads I find that being just under max gives me about my best accuracy.

Most of my loading is for my .45 Colt and my .45 ACP. I bought the Colt as a strictly hunting handgun so all loads are at max. My defence loads for my ACP are just above max, my 200 gr. lead loads are just powerful enough to cycle the action reliably.

Very funny when you compare one set of published data with another, ther can be one heck of a difference between 2 listed maxes, (I can't recall the load but I made one up for my .45ACP according to the powder manufactuer, and it was 2 full grains over what the bullet manufacturer listed. I got overpressure signs.) Double check all max data with at least 2 other sources.

[tex_n_cal]

A long time ago I learned that the manuals frequently disagree as to what's max. when you start seeing how much lot to lot difference there is in powders, cases, and guns, you realize you have to figure out for yourself what is max.

I've told people I've never been shy about stuffing powder in brass cases. Never have blown one up, but once in a while I've backed up after going too far.

In strong action guns, I will load for what seems to be the best combo of accuracy and velocity, within the safe limits of the brass, of course. If I see expansion in the solid web of the case, things are getting out of hand!

I have a .300 win mag that is about a 1/8 minute of Elk Rifle with high velocities. If I drop the loads down to factory equivalent, it becomes a one hole rifle.

Ditto a .22-250 - it is safe, but most accurate with some very fast loads.

Other guns, like say my 1896 Krag, or M99 Savage, I stick to factory pressures. They aren't magnums, never will be, but shoot very well and meet my needs. I suppose I could also stuff more powder in my .500-.450 #1 Blackpowder express, too, but it shoots to the fixed sights, and that's good enough for me.

Part of the fun of handloading is the freedom to make adjustments to suit the particular gun you have.

[bogie]

Oh yeah - with the 6PPC, in custom competition rifles, the standard way to start loading is to start with the published max, and work up...

[Surely]

farther up in this thread a poster mentioned that some shells have a large margin of saftey and some have virtually none. Does anyone have examples of this? Are you safer loading like a magnum caliber hot, or are they already pushing the max? The particular calibers that Im wondering about atm are 243 win and 338 win mag. Any info?

[wanderinwalker]

If I am loading 9mm for my Glocks or .45 ACP for my dad's 1911 with extra power springs, I go to whatever is the minimum, RELIABLE power level FOR ME, let my friends/dad/brother shoot it and bump up a few .1s of a grain until it is reliable again. (My dad loads ammo for his KT P-11 that are BELOW book min. They work for him, and work for ME in the Glocks, but not for others. A 9mm for-everybody-always-cycles-load in the Glocks is a mid-charge of Power Pistol and a 124.)

In the 03A3, .260 Mountain Rifle and AR-15 target rifles, I load as hot as is safe while producing good accuracy. In the 03 it means heavy (but about 2gr below max) doses of H4350 and a 168 BTHP. In the .260, it is a 140gr Sierra GameKing over near-max doses of H4350. For the .223, I have found the 77gr Nosler J4 over H4895 to be fast and accurate. But I won't give out my load data except to say it is with Winchester primers, LC cases and is good for 2750 fps over MY chrony. BE CAREFUL WITH THIS INFORMATION. IT IS DEMONSTRATED SAFE FOR ME AND OTHERS, BUT MIGHT NOT BE FOR YOU!

Take care all and don't blow up anything vital! ;)

~Nate

[Black Snowman]

I load for accuracy and have never found it around the max. The only loads I put near max are my .50 AE "fun" loads and they're still a bit shy of published max. I do love those H-110 fireballs though :D If I want more power, I use a bigger gun. I have them ranging from .22 LR through .340 Weatherby and that seems to just about cover my needs athough I'd still like a semi-auto .50 BMG rifle to compliment my .50 AE semi-auto pistol ;)

I have made the mistake, ONCE, of not loading a new powder light enough before working up and did some signifigant damage to my FAL knock-off. Won't be doing that again. Expensive lesson for just being impatcient.

[Steve Smith]

Depends on the application.

For my HP competition ammo, yes. For some "fun" .45 Colt ammo, yes. For everything else, no.

[cordex]

Depends on the manual. ;)

Actually, I had normally loaded slightly under Hodgdon's specs for Universal Clays under a 230gr pill in .45 ACP - 5.8gr of go-juice (listed max was 6.0 gr). Suddenly, the new manual comes out and I find out I'm actually loading slightly above the new 5.6gr max load. *shrug*

I found that 5.4 works well for a reasonable target load, so I'll probably stick around there, but I know my gun is capable of handling more.

[Surely]

curious if excess wear on a barrel is caused just by speed or if its a combination of speed and bullet weight. For example is it harder to shoot a 55 grain bullet at 3900 FPS than it is to shoot a 85 grain bullet at 3200 fps? Im talking mainly about barrel/throat wear I guess.

[Kamicosmos]

Nope. All my loads have been under published max loads, verified by Speer, Lyman, and the powder's manufacture's data.

Even my big boom and flash H110 loads are under max, although within the 3% reduction the powder calls for.

I don't get the over max loads. Why is it worth the risk? Must be similar to trying to beat a train across the tracks or something...

[Surely]

I guess the only thing that interests me about it is that you get a flatter trajectory so shooting at distance is a little easier. I wouldnt sacrifice accuracy for it though. Also curious just to know what the actual limit, it seems that all manuals would provide a small buffer in their max loads before there is actually any negative effects as long as your using a modern/well built weapon and undamaged components. Normally would you notice damaged brass quite a bit before increased loads actually become dangerous to the shooter or the gun? Most people seem to get the best accuracy below published MAX loads but some report that their guns are actually more accurate if you push it a little, but how much can you push it before you get into the dangerous area would be good to know. Its obvious that you cant give an exact gram extimate because a 338 ultra mag could probably handle 2 extra grains alot better than a 223 but what kind of a saftey margin is built in, percentage wise, to most manuals do you think?

[HankB]

. . . some shells have a large margin of saftey and some have virtually none. Does anyone have examples of this? Well, one example would be .45/70. If you're loading for an original trapdoor Springfield - or even a modern copy - you had better be careful to limit your pressures to what the action can stand, which isn't much. On the other hand, if you have a modern bolt action or single shot (like a Ruger #1) you can load the thing up to the point where it approaches .458 Win Mag power. Put a .45/70 which is max for a Ruger #1 into a trapdoor Springfield, and you're on VERY dangerous ground.

An example of a cartridge with little margin of safety might be .32 ACP. Designed for relatively low pressure, you're probably going to be WELL over the design limits of the pistol you shoot it in before you see any of the traditional signs of excess pressure, like cratered primers. I know of one fellow who blew up a Kel-Tec P32 with loads that were "only a little above" the Cor-Bon ammo for that cartridge. Go "only a little above" the max in, say, .357 Mag, and you're unlikely to blow up the gun - if you're working up slowly like you should be, signs of excess pressure "should" show up before catastrophic explosive disassembly of the revolver happens.

In reloading shotshells . . . pressures are already so low, that you can get yourself into trouble well before any warning signs show up. If a loading reference provides data for 12 gage target loads with 18 to 22 grains of powder, and all other parameters identical, I'll probably try 20 grains and stick to that.

[wingman]

For my rifle loads I find that being just under max gives me about my best accuracy.

No need for max loads, most are more accurate with less then max. Plus if you
need a bigger boom buy a bigger gun, maybe 50cal.:D

[wanderinwalker]

Surely,

To answer your question to the best of MY knowledge (and what I have heard from others) it is the AMOUNT of powder burned that wears the barrel, along with bullet passage. Heavier bullets are most stressful because they are slower (pressure stays higher longer). Makes sense to me.

So a .22-250 will have a shorter barrel life than a .223 by number of rounds, although the total powder burned in those rounds may be close to identical.

HTH.

[Dave R]

Depends on the gun.

My .380acp is most accurate at the max published load. I back off a little anyway, just on principle.

My 9mm is most accurate in the middle.

My .17 wildcat doesn't seem to care, but I get sticky extraction at what should be some fairly moderate loads. So I load it down to where extraction is normal, while I diagnose. I'm still not sure its not a die problem. Next time out I'm going to try some neck-sized brass and see if it'll go hotter.

My .308 rifle seems equally accurate at the low end, and near max, with accuracy falling off in the middle. I also load some .30-30 level loads for it, just for fun and economy.

[Gewehr98]

And I would never let somebody take one of my thumper loads intended for the Ruger and run it in either a Marlin lever gun or Trapdoor Springfield. No way.

Likewise, the 158gr loads I make for my .357 Desert Eagle would probably loosen up a K-Frame S&W Model 19 in short order, or worse. But if I throttled back the Desert Eagle loads, the gun would have failures to cycle, not enough gas pressure to work the big beast.

The loads I run in my 8x57 Mauser very much exceed published data from the majority of the load books - save for one, Accurate Arms. They've gone the extra mile by adding a page for the European loading of the 8mm Mauser. Liability lawyers notwithstanding. ;)

[P95Carry]

With rifle .. I tend to be a tad shy of max .. as long as i get the performance ..... which means consistency really. I don't see much point in striving for max vel in a rifle just for the hell of it!

Handguns .... that's different. I do load plenty of plinking stuff ...... .38, 9mm, .45 etc ... but having found that factory mag loads these days are tending whimpy .. I do load up quite a bit .. but within safe limits. My .357 mag load is shy of book max but shoots well .... even better in lever action. .44 mag ... similar .. my loads are safe re book max figures but have more horse power than factory.

The only one I do like to max out on is .454 Casull ... and am early in reloading for that ... the aim is to duplicate the great round Hornady does with the 300 grn XTP .... this yields about 1800 ft lbs!

[ThreadKiller]

As we used to say in the scuba diving biz, "There are old divers and there are bold divers, but there are no old, bold divers." Pretty much the same thing applies here.

The damage hot loads do to a firearm are cumulative. You may have developed a "hot" load that ol' Betsy tolerates (doesn't grenade instantly) but it's still hot and is still doing damage to the firearm. Then one day for no apparent reason, she lets go.

If you want more power, buy a bigger gun chambered for a bigger cartridge.

It's just plain stupid to knowingly overload your reloads. The extra 10% you may gain is meaningless on the other end anyway.

[uglymofo]

Ain't "HOT" the only way to load for DE 50AE fun?:D

Actually, while the loads seem quite warm to me, the primers and brass aren't badly deformed, and I'm still well under all three reloading books' maximums.

For rifle accuracy, I agree with most here--I have to be on the warmer side of average to get the best accuracy, especially at long range.

[Black Snowman]

Actually no ulgymofo, I can have a lot of fun with the "barely cycle the slide" loads as well. Sure its only 10 inches of flame instead of 30 out the barrel but follow-up shots are MUCH quicker so I can pound 7 holes into a target lickety split. That's a crowd pleaser too :D

[tex_n_cal]

One valid reason why reloading manuals have gotten more conservative over time is that new brass in many cases is now made thicker than it was in the 50's or 60's, and now has less capacity.

Secondly, modern ballisticians take real data and make statistical predictions as to what variation can be expected over a large lot of ammunition. They back off a load if ANY of the lot might exceed SAAMI pressure.

Lastly, some of the loads published in olden days were just plain unwise. They may not have blown up P.O. Ackley's rifle, but won't necessarily be safe in yours, either!

I will go past a published max, if my chrono tells me nothing wierd is going on, if I have good strong brass, and if the gun is strong for the caliber.

[Peter M. Eick]

I tend to load hot in my 10mm's and my 357 mag rounds fairly hot. The rest like 45 acp or 9mm I just try to duplicate factory velocites.

[Ala Dan]

Use too; but I don't any more. :uhoh: Most of my shooting
now days is with mild .38 Special L-SWC's; or .44 Special
L-SWC's if I want a big hole from a revolver. Otherwise,
I shoot my mild .45 ACP "hard cast" handloads out of my
SIG P220A. :rolleyes: :uhoh: :D

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

[bogie]

With the 6PPC in a match action/barrel/chamber, one of the nice tuning nodes is right at 3425 fps...

Look at your reloading manual now... Lemme put it this way - I use a foot-long drop tube on my Harrell to get all that V133 in the case...

[Dave R]

LOL. Bogie, if you're using a 1' drop tube, I'd say you're loading them pretty hot.

[FireInTheHole]

I load my HG loads pretty close to the max published, and in 9mm I have even exceeded it. (with care!)

I'm sure I will get bored someday and load down for pure accuracy...:rolleyes: