Democrats accused of racist attitudes


PDA






2dogs
January 3, 2003, 03:02 PM
NOTE: Contains strong language (curse words).

There is a reference to guns and gun laws toward the end of the (rap?) song lyrics.

Very interesting article.
--------------------------------------


http://www.frontpagemagazine.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=5324

The Trent Lotts of the Left
By Robert H. Boatman
FrontPageMagazine.com | January 3, 2003


In a comic strip appearing on October 5, 2002, Bruce Tinsley’s Republican duck “Mallard Fillmore” reads a newspaper and comments:

“It’s now been more than a month since racist Harvard academic Noel Ignatiev said, we should ‘abolish the white race.’ One wonders how this differs from other racists saying we should ‘abolish the black race.’ Other than the obvious: Mr. Ignatiev still has his job at Harvard.”

Indeed, racism appears to be a safer vocation for Democrats than for Republicans. Perhaps that’s why Democrats seem to practice it more often, more openly, and with no apologies. The double standard is alive and well.

Ignatiev, who teaches history at Harvard, went on to say he intends to,

“keep bashing the dead white males, and the live ones, and the females, too, until the social construct known as the white race is destroyed. Not deconstructed, but destroyed.”

It’s perfectly safe for Ignatiev to say such things because the popular opinion over the last 20 years has been that blacks and other “people of color” cannot be racists no matter what they say or do. Only whites can be racists. The fact that Mr. Ignatiev is himself white only adds a psychologically perverse dimension of self-hatred, leavened with self-congratulation, to the mix.

According to political correctness, only white Republicans can be racists. Which explains why Republican Sen. Trent Lott is hounded relentlessly because he said he was proud that Mississippi voted for Strom Thurmond in the 1948 presidential campaign, whereas the Ku Klux Klan activities of Democrat Sen. Robert Byrd and the public tossing about of the word “******” by Byrd and fellow Democrats such as Sen. Fritz Hollings and Calif. Lt. Gov. Cruz Bustamante are quickly forgotten.

Thus Rev. Jesse Jackson, with impunity, can instruct college students that America's democracy is only 37 years old, not 200-plus. He can explain that,

“democracy as we know it did not begin in Philadelphia, where a bunch of white men wrote the laws.”

(The Voting Rights Act of 1965, which Jackson considers to be the birth of American democracy, was also written by a bunch of white men, strangely enough.)

Donna Brazile, a Democratic political operative variously in the employ of Jesse Jackson, Al Gore, Richard Gephardt and Michael Dukakis, wrote the entire Republican Party off as “the party of white boys.”

The Rev. James Cone, a chief proponent of so-called Black Liberation Theology, says,

“What we need is the destruction of whiteness, which is the source of human misery in the world.”

Black poet Amiri Baraka says,

“You can’t steal nothin’ from a white man, he’s already stole it – he owes you anything you want, even his life. All the stores will open up if you will say the magic words. The magic words are: Up against the wall mother****er – this is a stick up!”

Khalid Abdul Muhammed, one-time lieutenant to Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan, explains to American college students what South African blacks do to whites who refuse to leave the country:

“We kill the women. We kill the babies. We kill the blind. We kill the cripples. We kill them all…. When you get through killing them all, go to the goddamn graveyard and kill them a-goddamn-gain …”

Former U.S. Representative Gus Savage tells a white member of the press,

“I don’t talk to you white mother****ers … You bitch mother****ers in the white press … **** you, you mother****ing ******* white devils.”

Mayor of San Francisco, Democrat Willie Brown, tells a white parent who is concerned that affirmative action programs will penalize his children, “I don’t care about your idiot children.”

Mary Frances Berry, as head of the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights, says,

“Civil rights laws were not passed to protect the rights of white men and do not apply to them.”

“We have an aging white America. They are dying. They are ****ting in their pants with fear!… I love it!” says Professor Jose Angel Gutierrez at the University of Texas.

Black Supreme Court Justice Thurgood Marshall tells white Justice William Douglas,

“You guys have been practicing discrimination for years. Now it’s our turn.”

Bell Hooks, a black female professor of English at City College of New York, says,

“I am writing this essay sitting beside an anonymous white male that I long to murder.”

Rap performer “Sister Souljah” sings,

“If black people kill black people every day, why not have a week and kill white people.”

“White male is what I call the newest swear word in America,” says “diversity consultant” Harris Susan.

Trumpeter Miles Davis’ most famous words were,

“If somebody told me I only had an hour to live, I'd spend it choking a white man.”

Writer Nathan McCall wins literary awards for writing,

“The fellas and I were hanging out on our corner one afternoon when the strangest thing happened. A white boy … came pedaling a bicycle casually through the neighborhood. … Somebody spotted him and pointed him out to the rest of us. ‘Look! What's that mother****a doin' ridin' through here?! Is he crraaaazy?!’ … We caught him on Cavalier Boulevard and knocked him off the bike. … Ignoring the passing cars, we stomped him and kicked him. My stick partners kicked him in the head and face and watched the blood gush from his mouth. I kicked him in the stomach and nuts, where I knew it would hurt. Every time I drove my foot into his balls, I felt better … one dude kept stomping, like he'd gone berserk … When he finished, he reached down and picked up the white dude's bike, lifted it as high as he could above his head, and slammed it down on him hard. … We walked away, laughing, boasting, competing for bragging rights about who’d done the most damage.”

Liberal whites, protected by the mantle of political correctness, are quick to join the anti-white racist movement. Never mind the warnings of noted historian and former Columbia University provost Jacques Barzun that political correctness does not legislate tolerance; it only organizes hatred.

Author Robin Morgan writes, with self-congratulation disguised as self-hatred,

“My white skin disgusts me. My passport disgusts me. They are the marks of an insufferable privilege bought at the price of others’ agony. If I could peel myself inside out I would be glad. If I could become part of the oppressed I would be free.”

The leftist National Council of Churches declares Columbus Day “not a time for celebration” but for “reflection and repentance” in which whites must acknowledge a history of “oppression, degradation and genocide.”

Democrat newsman Geraldo Rivera calls Democrat and avowed racist Al Sharpton, “One of the great civil-rights leaders in America.”

Not all whites are quite so gullible and groveling. Ex-liberal and former staff director of the US Commission on Civil Rights Linda Chavez asks the key question:

“But what about the Democrats’ role in enacting policies which penalize whites – especially white males – simply because of their race and gender?”

While the Democrats’ anti-white racist policies make the newspapers every day, it does nothing to erase their long tradition of anti-black racism.

The list of Democrats who have perpetrated documented acts of racial bigotry is long and “distinguished,” including former Sen. Al Gore Sr., Bill Clinton's mentor former Sen. William Fulbright, Pres. Franklin Roosevelt who appointed two notorious segregationists to the United States Supreme Court, Democrat newsman Dan Rather who uses the racial slur “Buckwheat” even on the air, former Speaker of the House Democrat Dick Gephardt who was a favored guest at St. Louis area white supremacist organizations, Clinton’s former HUD secretary Andrew Cuomo, Clinton's anti-Hispanic drug czar Lee P. Brown, II, and the list goes on and on.

It was Democrats who organized the record Senate filibuster of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. And three of the country’s best known segregationists – Gov. Orval Faubus of Arkansas (one of Bill Clinton’s political heroes), Gov. George Wallace of Alabama, and Gov. Lester Maddox of Georgia – were all Democrats. The entire South during the period of Jim Crow segregation was the most solidly Democratic region of the country.

Retired Arkansas State Trooper Larry Patterson says Bill and Hillary Clinton had nothing good to say about blacks in general and frequently used “******” to describe their black critics and opponents and even their black supporters behind their backs.

Are liberal Democrats inherently racist? A growing number of independent-minded whites and blacks think so. Lyricist Rocco Gotti recently wrote a song recorded on Corad Records with music by B-Cube and vocals by Shoanna Z. It goes something like this:

“90% of all blacks vote Democrat - why?

Most of us say we won’t vote Republican, before that day - we’ll die.

By telling them we’re theirs to keep – not right.

We’re allowin’ them to own us cheap – Dem lights.

What you say, what you say? Liberal Democrats are racist.

With their laws and their lies, the re-enslave us.

Livin’ in the inner city and ridin’ the bus is the Liberal Democrat’s vision for us, a Liberal party you can’t trust.

Our Black Founding Fathers played a part too, whites gave them guns to free me and you.

We won and took our guns, 200 years pass, they’ve got gun control again on our ass.

With violent criminals and cops who can’t defend, gotta protect our people. With gun control, freedom ends.

Oppose school vouchers to strengthen their hold, this left wing agenda leaves us out in the cold.

90% of all blacks vote Democrat - why?

Liberal Democrat Senator Robert Byrd, former Klansman, this has got to be heard.

With crocodile tears he says he’s sorry, it’s just another lie, it’s just another story.

They want us to believe that Byrd is the first, but we know better, FDR was the worst.

He appointed a Klansman to the US Supreme Court Bench, another hooded Democrat –can’t stand the stench.

Southern Democrats bonded with the Klan cuz for the black man, they had their own plan.

The truth that’s got me thinkin’ and it’s got ‘em all freakin’, the Republican who freed us was Abraham Lincoln.

Liberal Democrats are racist – what you say, what you say?”

Somebody had to figure it out.

Robert Boatman can be reached at INTERBOAT@aol.com.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you enjoyed reading about "Democrats accused of racist attitudes" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
PATH
January 3, 2003, 03:20 PM
A fascinating read.

Nanook
January 3, 2003, 04:02 PM
Interesting read, especially in light of the fact that Clinton was elected to the Arkansas Black Hall of Fame. I wonder if the people who elected him know this, and how it would affect what they thought of him now?

I've often wondered why more people didn't make the connection that republican Lincoln actually did the emancipating, not the democrats.

That song at the end of the article is especially insightful.

(edited to add a missing word)

Malone LaVeigh
January 3, 2003, 04:03 PM
I'm sure not here to defend the Democraps, but this is a great example of inflamatory, demogogic propaganda. First he hasn't made a connection between the Dems and most of the worst offenders he quotes. Maybe Noel Ignatiev and others are associated with the party, but he hasn't given us any evidence that he or Cole, Baraka, Muhammed, “Sister (sic) Souljah”, Miles Davis, or McCall are even members. He interweaves objectionable quotes by Jesse Jackson and a few others with really inflamatory speech by the likes of Ignatiev so that the reader lumps them all together. This is effective propaganda, but not very good journalism.

Second, I would like to get a little more context for some of the quotes. Was Miles Davis saying he would like to strangle any white man or did he have someone in mind? Not that it makes it any more justifiable, but it would put the racism in perspective. I did some quick searching on Nathan McCall, and apparently the book is about his gang banger lifestyle before he turned his life around. The passage quoted is disturbing and very inflammatory, but not necessarily advocating or glorifying that kind of behavior. I don't know enough to be sure, but if the author has misrepresented this part, it would reflect very poorly on the rest of the article.

Racism and violence needs to be called and exposed, whatever the source. But writers that misrepresent and twist things for political ends aren't doing any of us a favor.

2dogs
January 3, 2003, 04:12 PM
Note that the black "poet" Amiri Baraka (made up African name) was made the "poet laureate" of the PR of NJ. The heat that was turned up because of the foul, vicious, racist writing of Comrade Baraka I believe caused the State to either fire him or decide that NJ no longer needed a "poet laureate", so now he is working in some capacity with the Newark school board (according to last night's O'Reilly Factor).

The Newark schools, the universities.

People YOU ARE PAYING to have YOUR CHILDREN "educated" by these freaks- do you understand? I sure hope you taught them well in the first 3 years when you still had them because K-12 and on they are being turned into Commie apparatchiks.

These people are like cancer, they are spread throughout the schools and government. It's probably too late, but start fighting to take this country back or kiss it goodbye.

:banghead:

2nd Amendment
January 3, 2003, 04:21 PM
All of those mentioned in the article are or were card carrying Dems and have made mention of the fact over the years. That's why they are cited in the article and why the title is what it is. Most have also made many much more publicly palatable statements against racism. There is no context for the Davis quote. That's all there be and thus the meaning is obvious.

2dogs
January 3, 2003, 04:23 PM
.First he hasn't made a connection between the Dems and most of the worst offenders he quotes

No you're right, it is quite obvious that they are most likely conservative Republicans.:rolleyes:

I don't think that the point of the article is to say that all of these people are Democrats, nor that all Democrats are associated with folks of this ilk- however I think it is fair to say that an awfully large percentage of left leaning liberal Democrats wrap themselves in these people, and by doing so pick up the same stink.

It's obviously an opinion (editorial) piece

2dogs
January 3, 2003, 04:31 PM
MILES DAVIS (black jazz musician) "If somebody told me I had only one hour to live, I'd spend it choking a white man. I'd do it nice and slow." ["Miles Davis Can't Shake Boyhood Racial Abuse," Jet, March 25, 1985.]

Malone LaVeigh
January 3, 2003, 04:33 PM
These people are like cancer, they are spread throughout the schools and government. It's probably too late, but start fighting to take this country back or kiss it goodbye.That will come as a surprise to some of the schoolteachers on this board and TFL. Really, hysterical, emotional statements like that above shed a lot more heat than light. A few nut-cases in the public schools don't make the whole thing a commie training camp. I happen to count many good, responsible schoolteachers as friends. They are, bar none, the most hard-working humans I know. Without exception, they are dedicated to educating the kids in the things they're going to need to get through life. Many are helping kids through the hard, trying pit of adolescence and against horrible barriers of poverty and neglect. they're in a hard, thankless job I wouldn't take in a million years. I'll take forest fires and floods any day.

Get a grip.

Malone LaVeigh
January 3, 2003, 04:35 PM
No you're right, it is quite obvious that they are most likely conservative Republicans."Oh, we have both kinds of music here. Country AND western."

Malone LaVeigh
January 3, 2003, 04:36 PM
MILES DAVIS (black jazz musician) "If somebody told me I had only one hour to live, I'd spend it choking a white man. I'd do it nice and slow." ["Miles Davis Can't Shake Boyhood Racial Abuse," Jet, March 25, 1985.]Thanks of the citation. But I still don't have any context.

Malone LaVeigh
January 3, 2003, 04:39 PM
All of those mentioned in the article are or were card carrying Dems and have made mention of the fact over the years.According to who? You?

2dogs
January 3, 2003, 04:42 PM
Get a grip.

How about if we keep it civil and not devolve into personal insult.

Please show me where I disparaged teachers?

Some of your best friends are teachers- and this explains what? My one and only niece is a teacher in a godforsaken inner city school where teachers are beaten and killed by students. And that bears on how leftist ideology has taken root in public schools how?

2dogs
January 3, 2003, 04:45 PM
Thanks of the citation. But I still don't have any context.

No context, hmmmmmmmmmm you're right, I'm sure he meant it in the friendly, slap on the back kind of way.:rolleyes:

Malone LaVeigh
January 3, 2003, 04:53 PM
How about if we keep it civil and not devolve into personal insult. My apologies. I mean that. My point was that you sounded like you were getting ready to man the barricades because a few nut cases have found jobs in the public schools. Where is your evidence that our kids are "being turned into Commie apparatchiks?" I have two kids in the public schools here and, while there's a lot I don't like about the system, political indoctrination is not one of my concerns.

sonny
January 3, 2003, 04:55 PM
2dogs,

When you said...These people are like cancer,

it is not to hard to understand that you where speaking about SPECIFIC people ....no need to defend yourself ....I heard you if that makes you feel any better.

2nd Amendment
January 3, 2003, 04:59 PM
Yep. All the supporting evidence you need.

However, if you want more there's this thing known as Google...

2nd Amendment
January 3, 2003, 05:04 PM
Perhaps it should be.

Evolution taught as fact, not theory.

Condoms touted as all the protection necessary, if not actually handed out, while abstinence programs and moral considerations are regularly denigrated or ignored at the local level and by the NEA.

Failure to teach basic history while devoting entire chapters to MLK and vocal "celebrities".

Zero Tolerance Policies which do teach that any weapon is Evil while doing unconsidered damage to students who fall victim to such thoughtless policies.

We could go on with the indoctrination, from the recent forceful removal of a students NRA shirt to Christian bashing, banning of Christmas songs and more. That IS indoctrination.

Oleg Volk
January 3, 2003, 05:23 PM
A matter of terminology:

We have more Democrats on THR than some of you may suspect. Seems to me that they already agree with the rest of the members on the basics (right to own arms, right to own results of own labor, etc.) and are as outraged about the abuses as anyone else. In view of that, it is a bit counter-productive to use terms like Demoncraps to paint everyone with the same broad brush. Why not start from the common ground rather than by deliberately isolating yourself from the allies you already have?

FWIW, the six people who got me interested in RKBA and provided early traning, transportation to the range, loans of firearms were ALL Democrats. I was as surprised as you may be when I realized that. There's more to people who define themselves as Democrats than blind adherence to national socialism -- and it is up to the rest of us to win their support for what we are all trying to accomplish. Just as there's more to Republicans than religious bigotry or to Libertarians than pot smoking.

Drjones
January 3, 2003, 05:44 PM
Um, I'm tempted to say things in support of a certain organization after reading that, but I won't because I am better than that.

I just threw up my lunch.

Wildalaska
January 3, 2003, 05:54 PM
In view of that, it is a bit counter-productive to use terms like Demoncraps to paint everyone with the same broad brush

Thank you Mr. Volk...some of the name calling on this Board directed towards people who may not share the same views is absolutely abhorent. It marginalizes the entire RKBA movement...

PATH
January 3, 2003, 06:03 PM
While I am not a Democrat my great grandparents, grandparents, and parents were. There are plenty of Democrats who support RKBA. There are plenty of Republicans who don't!(George Pataki,Governor of New York)


I will support those who support my rights regardless of who they may be! In UNITY there is strength!

2dogs
January 3, 2003, 06:08 PM
Malone LaVeigh

Apology accepted.

Oleg Volk and Wildalaska

Assuming you were speaking of me,nowhere have I ever typed "Demoncrap" until now.

All of the above- it's called "hyperbole". Look it up.:rolleyes: :D

Others

Thanks for the support.

By the way, I was raised by Democrats, was a registered Democrat for 25 years- so what? As far as I am concerned there are Democrats, and there are Demoncrats who are leftist, socialist, communist, totalitarians (hyperbole again, the feint of heart may want to turn away)who have infested our government
and public education system and media and who will (with all the best intentions) turn this country into a Godless stinking scum hole with no freedom for anyone, much like a large part of the rest of the world.

Edited for clarity.

2nd Amendment
January 3, 2003, 06:28 PM
The problem with those you describe is that they are seldom ever actually DemonicRATs(I use the term everywhere because I have something beneath contempt for the Party of Klinton). Take those people and start reading them the Dem Party Platform. Tell them what the voting trends are from some of the more recent legislations floating around.

But don't tell them which Party Platform it is. Don't tell them whose voting records you're citing.

After about an hour discussion where the mayor and a couple council members sat and disected what I was telling them with great abandon I filled them in on where it all came from.

Stone cold silence.

Then they all left. There was simply nothing they could say. They not only didn't support most of the main tenets of their own party, including gun control, they didn't even know what those tenets were. Typical Dems. A Dem because gramps and great gramps, ad infinitum, were Dems.

What we're talking about are the self described Liberals. These people are the ones with an agenda. They don't like the US, Capitalism, Christianity, Individualism or gun ownership. They'll play whatever game is necessary to further their agenda. Klinton, Jackson, Sharpton, a very large segment of higher education. These people will never take you shooting, Oleg. But they will lie, cheat and steal to further their goals and sucker in the average sheep to continue voting for the "Party of the Working Man".

There's nothing abhorrent about calling a spade a spade, wild. And the only thing that will marginalize RKBA is failing to realize who the enemy is. That would be the left and the Dem Party. While the Rank & File may not be an enemy at all times, so long as they vote for the Party they're still a problem that has to be acknowledged and dealt with.

The fact the Repubs may be little better is a whole different argument.

2dogs
January 3, 2003, 06:35 PM
Thank you 2A.

See folks, I am what the carnies call the Barker- I get you into the tent, where 2A and the rest of you folks can provide the very eloquent, reasoned and informed commentary that you do.

:)

Say, what happened to the little smilie with the machine gun- too politically incorrect? Really folks toughen the skin, grow a pair. Sure am beginning to wonder where this "cold, dead hands" stuff comes from.:scrutiny: :D :neener:




Edited for spelling- that d@mned "to" "too" thang.

Wildalaska
January 3, 2003, 07:05 PM
QUOTE]The problem with those you describe is that they are seldom ever actually DemonicRATs[/QUOTE]

There is that term again...

Why do you guys insist on demonizing those who do not agree with you..IMHO, its as bad as the way the radical left acts, and is not fit and proper for true citizens..

What we're talking about are the self described Liberals. These people are the ones with an agenda. They don't like the US, Capitalism, Christianity, Individualism or gun ownership.

Im sorry, again, why are you throwing labels about...if I dont agree with YOUR version of capitalism does that make me the enemy? Arent their self desvcribed liberals who support the RKBA?
Tell me what a liberal is...For example if I support abortion rights, gay rights, liberlized immigration, higher taxes on corporations, taking the owrd God out of the pledge, but still support theRKBA are you gonna line me up against the wall with the rest of them?

2nd Amendment
January 3, 2003, 07:22 PM
Why demonize them? Because I have complete contempt for them. Beneath contempt.

I don't care what some "describe" themselves as. See my post to which you're responding. Ask them what they actually believe. No, offer them the stance they always vote for without telling them whose it is and see how they react.

You are a member of a very small minority and yes, the beliefs you say you support absolutely make you an "enemy" on most points. From baby killing to immigrants looking for a free lunch to more taxes for big government corruption you oppose common sense. What am I supposed to do, embrace you? Why? The things you support have been proven wrong and ineffective for the last 60 years and yet you still support them. But for one issue we share I'm supposed to relent on everything else?

The RKBA won't save this country, it's way bigger than that.

Malone LaVeigh
January 3, 2003, 07:35 PM
First, I'll own up to the Democrap term. Spank me. I have equal-opportunity contempt for both of the major parties... and actually, the little ones, too, if I think about it very hard.

But seriously, the problem with labelling all of "them" any way, a la:
And the only thing that will marginalize RKBA is failing to realize who the enemy is. That would be the left and the Dem Party.... is not just that it's beneath us, it's that it's counter-productive. It makes as much sense as the Islamic extremists who blame all Americans for the perceived misdeeds of our leaders. And we all know how effective that is.

Malone LaVeigh
January 3, 2003, 07:44 PM
You are a member of a very small minority and yes, the beliefs you say you support absolutely make you an "enemy" on most points.An enemy to YOU maybe, but not an enemy to RKBA. You're free to have and enjoy the rest of your opinions.

One of the biggest problems in making any headway against stupid gun laws is that the right has owned this issue for so long. We don't particularly need a lot more right-wingers fighting for gun rights. What we really need is a few LIB'RULS and even DEMONCRATS on our side. ;)

The right has been losing this fight long enough.

2dogs
January 3, 2003, 07:49 PM
the Islamic extremists who blame all Americans for the perceived misdeeds of our leaders

With all due respect sir, I do not believe that Islamic extremists blame all Americans for the perceived misdeeds of our leaders- except in the minds of Liberals. Reference the Patty Murray article.

From what I have read and seen, Islamic extremists don't blame, they hate- and who they hate is Jews, Americans, Christians, and basically all whom they consider infidels, that being anyone who does not strictly adhere to Islam. As exhibit A that what I say is correct- take a quick look at where two big buildings used to stand in NYC.

As far as contempt for Republicans, Demoncrats, or any other group- it is the ideology for which I have the utmost contempt, not the people (well only to the extent that they support the corrupt ideology).

I hate no man.

:scrutiny:

Wildalaska
January 3, 2003, 08:01 PM
QUOTE]But seriously, the problem with labelling all of "them" any way, is not just that it's beneath us, it's that it's counter-productive. [/QUOTE]

Couldnt of said it better myself...

And I am glad to see that true colours are coming out here...to the radicals anyone who doesnt think like them..is the "enemy"..a word made famous by two of the greatest killers of all time from each end of the spectrum....Stalin and Hitler...

I for one refuse to classify a fellow US citizen who doesnt think like me as "the enemy", except for those who threaten my very existence..and it seems far more likely that such a threat is coming from those who throw around the term "enemy" as opposed to those who are simply misguided or wrong in their political views.

And 2ndA:

You are a member of a very small minority

I dont think so..I think I am in the majority....because I believe in the principles of this great nation, not hate. Because I beleive in all parts of the constitution, not just those that support my own personal weltanshauung. Because I will work through the system to make it a better one for everyone, not just think of ways to destroy it...


and further:

Islamic extremists don't blame, they hate- and who they hate is Jews, Americans, Christians, and basically all whom they consider infidels, that being anyone who does not strictly adhere to Islam. As exhibit A that what I say is correct- take a quick look at where two big buildings used to stand in NYC.

should read...

"Right wing extremists don't blame, they hate- and who they hate is Jews, Blacks, ATF agents, gays, pro choice advocates and basically all whom they consider liberals, that being anyone who does not strictly adhere to their twisted view of the Constituion As exhibit A that what I say is correct- take a quick look at where a big buildings used to stand in Oklahoma City.

I repeat my oft repeated refrain..the biggest danger to the RKBA is the radical right..the radical left and their supporters are just intellectual namby pambys who take such pride in their rationality that if you are smart enough you can beat them...ever hear of Stanford Levinsohn...but the liberals dont "hate" you...

2nd Amendment
January 3, 2003, 08:04 PM
And to whom has it been losing? Don't give me a party, answer with an ideology.

Now, let's get something straight on loathing. the Repubs at this point are only a couple rungs down on my Disgust-O-Meter than the Dems. But at least they still pay lib service to what's right and they still claim to know where this nation came from and what the Constitution and BoR are about.

BTW, did I say or imply you were an enemy to the RKBA? I said it's not the only issue and the fact we share views on that one issue doesn't make all the others suddenly meaningless.

Malone, I made it perfectly clear the difference between the leadership/support structure and the average Joe. That's hardly comparable to the generic hate and jealousy of Muslims for all of us.

2dogs
January 3, 2003, 08:09 PM
I for one refuse to classify a fellow US citizen who doesnt think like me as "the enemy", except for those who threaten my very existence..

Excuse me sir, how is someone who is trying to take away your right to defend your life not threatening your existence?



:banghead:

2nd Amendment
January 3, 2003, 08:11 PM
Strike one, Wild: You march out the Hitler/Fascist routine. That's always the last gasp of those with a bankrupt argument.

Strike two: You roll out with your diatribe against the Right and each thing you cite is obviously incorrect and demonstrably wrong. I'd cite the majority of the membership of this site as proof. Then you roll out OKC, currently under review for its' Islamist ties and even if you accept the old familar version of whast happened, leveled by a loser and a loner with no real political ties. In the process you make yourself guilty of that which you claim to be offended by.

Strike Three: The left is the one seeking to take away your right to own a gun, control your property, stifle your parental rights and more. You denigrate the "Radical Right" simply because you disagree with them...even as you complain about the same from them.

BTW, it appears you missed the point about being a small minority. There are precious few Leftists who support the agenda of the Left and also come down on the side of the RKBA. The vast majority of them that I have encountered are right here on TFL/THR.

2dogs
January 3, 2003, 08:16 PM
"Right wing extremists don't blame, they hate- and who they hate is Jews, Blacks, ATF agents, gays, pro choice advocates and basically all whom they consider liberals, that being anyone who does not strictly adhere to their twisted view of the Constituion As exhibit A that what I say is correct- take a quick look at where a big buildings used to stand in Oklahoma City.

Sir please do not put words in my mouth or distort what I say- a tactic you apparently use to fight those with whom you do not agree but have no reasonable justification to disagree.

If you are insinuating that I am a right wing extremist you are wrong. If you are insinuating that I hate Jews, Blacks, ATF agents, gays or anybody else you are wrong.

If you take some time to research you may find that you are also wrong about the building in Oklahoma City ( oh may I add that it was MY brave co-workers who died that day).

By your tone sir it is beginning to appear that it is you, indeed, who may be hating. Forgive me if I am wrong.

:banghead:


Edited for clarity

Malone LaVeigh
January 3, 2003, 08:27 PM
There are precious few Leftists who support the agenda of the Left and also come down on the side of the RKBA. The vast majority of them that I have encountered are right here on TFL/THR.Well, that's your experience. I think there are more than you think. Most of the gun owners I know could be described as liberal or leftist on most issues. Then there are folks like me that don't really fit well into the left-right spectrum. I mean, what do you call a green, civil libertarian, market social democrat? It doesn't fit on a bumper sticker.

2nd Amendment
January 3, 2003, 08:28 PM
Bipolar? :D

Dizzy? :neener:

Malone LaVeigh
January 3, 2003, 08:30 PM
Ta dum

I don't know about the rest of y'all but I sure didn't get much work done today...

2dogs
January 3, 2003, 08:31 PM
what do you call a green, civil libertarian, market social democrat

A grecilmasod of course:D :neener:

Malone LaVeigh
January 3, 2003, 08:34 PM
:D ... wait a minute... :scrutiny:

Wildalaska
January 3, 2003, 08:37 PM
Excuse me sir, how is someone who is trying to take away your right to defend your life not threatening your existence?

No one in fact can take away my right to defend myself..what the anti gunners seek to do is limit my access to SOME of the tools I can use to defend myself, and until the Constitution is amended AND the vast majority of Americans choose to eliminate them, I have no fear that I will be deprived of firearms.

Accordingly I refuse to view a misguided anti gunner as an "enemy"

Strike one, Wild: You march out the Hitler/Fascist routine. That's always the last gasp of those with a bankrupt argument.

Or actually, its the first answer for those who choose to include hate in their politics.

Strike two: You roll out with your diatribe against the Right and each thing you cite is obviously incorrect and demonstrably wrong. I'd cite the majority of the membership of this site as proof. Then you roll out OKC, currently under review for its' Islamist ties and even if you accept the old familar version of whast happened, leveled by a loser and a loner with no real political ties. In the process you make yourself guilty of that which you claim to be offended by.

Seems like I struck a nerve somewhere..maybe you should visit the Aryan nations website to check out their views on gun control...they hate too..
And I dont think that the majority of this member ship "hates" people who disagree with them...


Strike Three: The left is the one seeking to take away your right to own a gun, control your property, stifle your parental rights and more. You denigrate the "Radical Right" simply because you disagree with them...even as you complain about the same from them.

That does not make a lot of sense, with all due respect..please explain...

And by the way I am denigrating haters....

BTW, it appears you missed the point about being a small minority. There are precious few Leftists who support the agenda of the Left and also come down on the side of the RKBA.

How do you know?

If you are insinuating that I am a right wing extremist you are wrong. If you are insinuating that I hate Jews, Blacks, ATF agents, gays or anybody else you are wrong.

But you do hate liberals dont you....

2nd Amendment
January 3, 2003, 09:02 PM
Or actually, its the first answer for those who choose to include hate in their politics.

OK, so it appears to be your first AND last gasp. Fine

Seems like I struck a nerve somewhere..maybe you should visit the Aryan nations website to check out their views on gun control...they hate too..
And I dont think that the majority of this member ship "hates" people who disagree with them...

Struck a nerve? No. Utterly missed the point? Absolutely. Read it again.

That does not make a lot of sense, with all due respect..please explain...

You're condemning the Right and yet it's the Right that has fought this fight all along. This fight depends on the Right since there simply aren't enough participants on the Left who share your(our) views on this subject. It's the left across the board seeking to control things and you're spending your time condemning the Right because your views disagree with theirs(mine) and then fail to see your just as guilty of the same fault and not to mention blind to the reality.

And by the way I am denigrating haters...

No, you're labeling those you disagree with for advantage in debate.


How do you know?

The number of Leftists here. the number I have met in my years dabbling in politics and debate. the polls and studies that have been done over the years. Quite a variety of ways actually

But you do hate liberals dont you....

No, I hate the leftist leadership. I have a contempt for those who follow in ignorance, and a bigger contempt for those who actually know the score and still follow. But todays leftists have very little in common with Liberals. They may have co-opted the label but certainly not the ideals.

2dogs
January 3, 2003, 09:07 PM
But you do hate liberals dont you....

You gotta brush up those reading skills mate.:neener:

2dogs
January 3, 2003, 09:11 PM
No one in fact can take away my right to defend myself..what the anti gunners seek to do is limit my access to SOME of the tools I can use to defend myself

Pssssssssst- hey some body nudge this guy, he's talking in his sleep again.

You are dreaming, aren't you?:D

Wildalaska
January 3, 2003, 09:42 PM
"And the only thing that will marginalize RKBA is failing to realize who the enemy is. That would be the left and the Dem Party."

"Why demonize them? Because I have complete contempt for them. Beneath contempt. "

"You are a member of a very small minority and yes, the beliefs you say you support absolutely make you an "enemy" on most points."


"I hate the leftist leadership"

Enemy. Disgust. Contempt. Hate. All for people who share a different view.

Your words. Not mine.

It's the left across the board seeking to control things and you're spending your time condemning the Right because your views disagree with theirs(mine) and then fail to see your just as guilty of the same fault and not to mention blind to the reality.

Sorry sir I am condemning haters, not the "Right". Theres a difference. My views frequently coincide with those on the Right, frequently they dont. I just dont hate anybody, Im just afraid of haters.

2dogs
January 3, 2003, 09:54 PM
Im just afraid of haters.


Sir, I do not believe that anyone here hates you nor any one else.

:)

2nd Amendment
January 3, 2003, 10:09 PM
Enemy. Disgust. Contempt. Hate. All for people who share a different view.

Fine. You see, I am not easy to deal with because I don't have a problem with what you say. I hate that small number of Leftist Elitists who drive on an anti-American agenda that despises everything that ever made this nation great. They truly do disgust me. I find people who empower these cretins without ever taking the time to know who it is they are voting for or for what those creatures stand contemptable. I find those who favor their anti-freedom agenda with full knowledge but no power to be even lower.

We live in an age where strong words and strong stands are more than many people care to handle and certainly more than they care to issue of their own volition. I, otoh, don't really care. I see only disaster in the things you support and I know those things well because I once espoused most of them myself. I'll oppose them as forcefully as possible now and voice my stand on those who hold them and wade through the labeling that comes with it in this PC age.

Label away. Just understand that if that's all you've got, that and your own hate filled generalizations about the Right, you'll be good for nothing more than a laugh in a very short space of time.

Wildalaska
January 4, 2003, 01:10 AM
Ill use your words 2nd A, slightly modified:

"I hate that small number of Leftist Elitists who drive on "what I define as anti-American agenda that despises everything that I think ever made this nation great. They truly do disgust me. "

You said it, not me...case closed.

forquidder
January 4, 2003, 02:23 AM
Bravo 2nd Amendment, for wading through this argument and all the PC name calling with sound reasoning and the conviction to stand behind your ideals. I believe that it is indeed the mature individual who has come to the realization that there are consequences to political philosophies and once those (negative) consequences are understood, will stand against them.
How anyone can continue to think that they can approve of 95% of the Democrat party (Leftist) platform and not get the other 5% (i.e. bye bye guns) is beyond me. Particularly given the track-record of the previous Administration. "Liberalism" went out the window of the Democrat party with JFK.

Hey Wild, did you move up here from California or something?:scrutiny:

Wildalaska
January 4, 2003, 02:53 AM
Hey Wild, did you move up here from California or something?

Nope.

Justin Moore
January 4, 2003, 06:44 AM
Seems like I struck a nerve somewhere..maybe you should visit the Aryan nations website to check out their views on gun control...they hate too..

A completely apalling ad hominem attack, straight out of
the Democrat playbook, namely: if you are to the right you
are naturally a racist, Aryan Nations type.

Why is that Democrats, who are supposedly VERY Pro 1st Amendment, allways throw out the word 'hate' when someone
on the 'right' says something they don't agree with? Interesting
isn't it? :scrutiny:

ACLU defending the sale of porn=freedom of speech
2dogs=Aryan Hate Monger (not) ;)

2dogs, You're welcome to come over and help me
polish my Iron Cross any day you care to

dave
January 4, 2003, 08:13 AM
I've said it before and I'll say it again.

The best and fastest way for one to be called a racist.........is to start winning an argument with a liberal.

2nd Amendment
January 4, 2003, 10:01 AM
Ill use your words 2nd A, slightly modified:

Of course you will. Dealing with them as stated would be too difficult.

"I hate that small number of Leftist Elitists who drive on "what I define as anti-American agenda that despises everything that I think ever made this nation great. They truly do disgust me. "

It isn't what I define. The reason you add these words is because you are quite aware of that fact and have to find a way to marginalize what I say. Contrasting the things you have stated you support with the history of this nation AND the most recent five decades shows it as not only anti-American but horribly flawed. An abject failure clung to by a certain type of would be social engineer more concerned with their own opinion of how things should be that with what works and what is best for the most, as opposed to what puts power and control with the self assumed Elite.

You said it, not me...case closed.

The Nazi card, then multiple ad hominem attacks, generalized labeling of the majority of membvers of the site you're posting on, now the "I've won and that's that" angle of "attack". Do you have any experience with debate? If so how could you commit practically every fatal mistake in less than six posts?

:rolleyes:

2nd Amendment
January 4, 2003, 10:04 AM
forquidder, thx. :D

Dave, I'd be LMAO except that I've actually had the experience practically everytime I wind up "debating" a leftist. I almost believe them, I've heard it so much. :scrutiny:

Oleg Volk
January 4, 2003, 11:55 AM
That's hardly comparable to the generic hate and jealousy of Muslims for all of us.

Yes, the Muslims hate us so much that one of them was instrumental in making The High Road forum possible. They so much hate us that they show up in my pro-RKBA posters. They may or may not be typical (in my experience, that's typical behavior and not an aberration), but that's immaterial: how an you justify dismissing the individuals who go out of your way to help you in achieving a common goal?

I think you are confusing adherents of a religion with the totalitarian governments hiding behind the trappings of that religion. We can cite examples of such abuses by any religion, be it "peaceful" Shintoism or "psycho" Islam. Muslims (and Christians and atheists and every other religion you can think of) are represented among Americans...who generally wanted to get away from the state-coopted version of it.

Lest you think that locals want their religion merge with the state, here's a non-verbatim quote from one of the Christian members of this forum: "Bush's faith-based initiatives will be the death of all of us." Muslims don't hate you any more than Buddhists or Christians do. Most of them don't know you or care about matters not related to their family, their job and their hobbies. That some foreign government has coopted their faith in an effort to pit them against us isn't the fault of the people who moved half a world away just to get away from the same thugs.

2nd Amendment
January 4, 2003, 08:39 PM
Tell that to the "radical Islamists" in the Middle East and cities across America who danced in the street after 9/11. Men, women, children. Funny, I didn't see a government official in the lot.

Screw it. Let's all let the Dems and their special interest lackeys run wild and see where we wind up in ten years, with Hillary as pres, a Dem House and Senate and Freedom just a bitter memory. Let's see whose 'vision" destroys this nation.

There's not the slightest doubt which it will be among those who aren't so blinded by the need to be "tolerant" that they can't see a damn thing clearly at this point.

Wildalaska
January 4, 2003, 08:58 PM
generalized labeling of the majority of membvers of the site you're posting on

Really? You are saying that the majority of posters on this site are Haters?

Wildalaska
January 4, 2003, 09:01 PM
Let's all let the Dems and their special interest lackeys run wild and see where we wind up in ten years, with Hillary as pres, a Dem House and Senate and Freedom just a bitter memory.

Funny, seems to me that the Homelands Security Act is a Republican Invention..

love to hear what a special interest lackey is...probably someone whose politics you disagree with...

2dogs
January 4, 2003, 09:03 PM
That some foreign government has coopted their faith

Oleg

I don't think it is a matter of government coopting the faith- the suicide bombers in Israel, the 9/11 hijackers, the extremist Muslims killing Christians all over the world- this is not the work of governments. To the extent that governments may be involved it seems that they are by lending covert support to these terrorists.

No one is saying that all Muslims are extremists or support terrorism. However I think that there is substantial evidence of support around the world by Muslims for the extremists. And in this country there has been an almost deafening silence among Muslim leaders in condemning what happened on 9/11 and around the world in their name.

2nd Amendment
January 4, 2003, 10:57 PM
You've already tried this one, Wild. I pointed out then that you missed the entire point of what I said. You ignored that. Again I'll tell you to read it again. until then you're just spinning your wheels.

2nd Amendment
January 4, 2003, 11:05 PM
Funny, seems to me that the Homelands Security Act is a Republican Invention..

Please show where I have heaped accolades upon the Republican Party? Please show where I have in any way indicated they are anything other than yet another party of Big Government?

love to hear what a special interest lackey is...probably someone whose politics you disagree with...

Why not have some examples? HCI ring a bell? Various homosexual lobbies? The Abortion lobby? Labor Unions? The Green Freaks? Animal "rights" nuts? Sharpton? Jackson? These are the people who ARE the Dem leadership. I presume you agree with them? No? You do every time you vote that Dem Party line.

Justin Moore
January 4, 2003, 11:23 PM
Funny, seems to me that the Homelands Security Act is a Republican Invention..

Funny, I thought Joe Lieberman was pimping Homeland Security MONTHS before the Bush Administration was. I guess pointing
that out probably makes me a right wing 'hater' ;)

2nd Amendment,

Unfortuneately, I think your assessment of the Republic
party is for the most part correct, with a few exceptions
like Virgil Goode, Tom Tancredo, Ron Paul, Bob Barr, and Dick
Armey. I'm sure I left a few out of that list. The 'neocon' proto-
socialists have seemingly taken control. Its rather ironic that
most of them are 'reformed' leftists, don't you think?

Anyway, enough 'thoughtcrime' for today :neener:

Wildalaska
January 5, 2003, 03:25 AM
HCI ring a bell? Various homosexual lobbies? The Abortion lobby? Labor Unions? The Green Freaks? Animal "rights" nuts? Sharpton? Jackson? These are the people who ARE the Dem leadership. I presume you agree with them? No? You do every time you vote that Dem Party line.

Just as I thought.

Someday I can see you having a major problem when the Presidential election pits a homosexual pro choice woman who is an avid supporter of gun rights versus an anti abortion, anti gay man who supports trigger locks..

Oh I know your next comment.."if they are pro choice they would never be pro gun"...

2nd Amendment
January 5, 2003, 08:30 AM
Please spare us the euphemisms. It's a choice whether to have sex or not. Afterwards it's abortion. I'd remind you that "Fetus" is Latin for "Baby, in case you think by refusing to use words like abortion and baby...and murder...you're somehow fooling someone.

There will never be the candidates you describe in contention for the office of president.

Just as you thought? What did you think? Again, as is par for the course with Leftists, you ignored at least half the post and the half you ignored is the part contiguous to the issue at hand. Again I'll say try again. Right now you're merely embarrassing yourself.

Preacherman
January 5, 2003, 08:54 AM
I'm afraid that some of us still have a long way to go to implement the ideals for which we strive on The High Road. I quote from the Rules of Conduct:Spamming, trolling, flaming, and personal attacks are prohibited. You can disagree with other members, even vehemently, but it must be done in a well-mannered form. Attack the argument, not the arguer.In this thread we've had people accusing each other of supporting differing beliefs; intolerance; personal accusations; and a host of things that I really don't want to see on this forum at all.

Let me say it again: attack the argument, not the arguer! It is NEVER appropriate or permissible to slander, or level accusations against, or express personal contempt for, another High Roader, just because they hold opinions that differ strongly from your own. This is simply not acceptable. If this continues to be a problem (whether on the Legal & Political forum, or anywhere on THR) be sure that strong action will be taken to correct the situation and implement our Forum policies.

This thread is now closed. I hope this will give those involved (and I'm sure I don't have to name them) a chance to cool off and think about what I've said here.

If you enjoyed reading about "Democrats accused of racist attitudes" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!