[carnaby]

I got my Lee Anniversary kit with the Lee three die set for my .300 win mag. I couldn't be happier. I'm reloading at about $5 per 20 rounds and the bullets appear to be better quality than what comes with typical Winchester or Remington factory ammo.

I'm loading up with 168 grain Speer Gold Match SPBT and Hodgdon H4350 powder. The Hodgdon load chart says to start with 66 grains of this stuff and not to exceed 70 grains.

I loaded up a pile of loads, six cartridges at a time in 62,63,64,65,66,67, and 68 grains, plus three rounds at 60 grains just to test for my first set of loads.

This went fairly quickly after I was careful to read and re-read the manual. I made a couple mistakes. It was kinda strange the first time I was pouring powder into the case and it was pouring out onto my feet! Yeah, I forgot to put the primers in, I guess I just got carried away :p

Anyway, I got a good system down. Always press the bullet right after doing the powder charge just to be safe. I'm hooked! Now all I need is the Lee Factory Crimp die (nice that they left that one out of the package :mad: ). Here's my setup:

http://vger.aa.washington.edu/triplett/blog_pictures/lee_300_win_mag_reloading_small.jpg

I'll post a range report after this weekend, we'll see how the rounds turn out.

[Doug b]

carnaby, undercharging can be a bad thing, also I have never found a need to crimp rifle ammo.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

carnaby,

Congratulations on doing your first reloading. I agree with Doug on the crimping of the cartridges. Unless you're reloading for a firearm with a tubular magazine, there's typically no need.

Regards,

Dave

[dakotasin]

good luck w/ these loads!

a few thoughts... in the 300 win mag, i like using a little slower powder than 4350. rl-22, rl-25, and h-4831 are my favorites.

i never crimp rifle rounds (except my 30-30).

you're headed down the path of performance... more accuracy and more velocity for less money. enjoy!

[carnaby]

undercharging can be a bad thing

Yeah, I read about that. Apparently if you undercharge too much with a few particular powders you can get a situtation that can lead to very high pressures. Is this what you're talking about?

What other problems with weak charges can you run into? I suppose a bullet could potentially become stuck in the barrel, but that would be from an awfully weak charge.

I don't think I undercharged too much on the 60 grain and 62 grain loads. Any opinions on that?

Also, Lee absolutely recommends crimping for hunting rounds, so I think I'll at least take that advice. They also suggest that crimping might improve accuracy by improving the uniformity of pressure when the charge first ignites. I'll give it a try and compare. For sure my bullets are tight enough that I can't pull them out with my fingers, I give every cartridge a tug to make sure I've not goofed up in the sizing phase.

Thanks for the comments, I'm keen to learn :)

[dakotasin]

of course lee wants you to crimp everything... they have a vested interest in that: lee factory crimp die.

i don't suppose it would hurt, but i don't crimp any non-tube fed cartridges. my 300 win mag is certainly not crimped.

[Dave P]

"For sure my bullets are tight enough that I can't pull them out with my fingers,"

Verify proper tension by trying to push the bullet in further: press the bullet against the work bench, using your thumb. Should not move. If it does, pull that bullet and fix the process.

Dave

[carnaby]

OK, nice to have a good measure of bullet tightness since I don't have a scale for that. Actually, I do have a bathroom scale. What should the tension be?

And the crimp die is only $8 or so. No big deal. I already ordered it anyway :)

[USSR]

carnaby,

You don't crimp highpower rifle ammo. The bullet is held in place by neck tension.

Don

[carnaby]

You don't crimp highpower rifle ammo. The bullet is held in place by neck tension.
But but but.... Lee says it's a good idea. They say it's a must for hunting ammo. They sell dies for this. Is there something bad about crimping rifle ammo, or is it just unneccessary?

[The Bushmaster]

The only rifle amunition that really needs crimping is any rounds that will be loaded into a tubular magazine. If you inadvertinately over crimp rifle cases you could deform the bullet. If you do decide to crimp them use a light crimp. I load .30-06 and have had no problem with set back in a box magazine and am running at or above factory velocity without a crimp. I also have a .30-30 and use a heavy crimp for it as the bullets have a cannelier and will be loaded in a tublular magazine.

[USSR]

But but but.... Lee says it's a good idea. They say it's a must for hunting ammo. They sell dies for this.

Yeah, right.:rolleyes: And I sell good luck charms. As previously stated, the only thing you will possibly do is deform your bullet. Funny how nobody but Lee sells this snake oil.

Don

[carnaby]

Well, I'll give it a try anyway. They say their crimp die won't mush your case and it'll clear up acne and make your crooked rifle shoot straight. I'll see what it does and report back :D

[griz]

Congratulations on your success. One small piece of advice from someone who has already made the mistake. If you organize your small batches of loads on a flat surface, sooner or later something will happen to knock them off and mix them up so that you can't tell the starting load from the max. With me it was just clumsiness, but I am sure earthquakes, cats, kids, and probably aliens can knock them over as well. My apologies if you just have them up there for the photo.

[carnaby]

If you organize your small batches of loads on a flat surface, sooner or later something will happen to knock them off and mix them up so that you can't tell the starting load from the max.
Yeah, I'm worried about that. I've got a few cartridge boxes on order from Widener's. Maybe I should find somewhere else to put the cartridges in the mean time :o

[WayneConrad]

I crimp my 7.62x39 when using soft-point bullets. That's because I once had a soft-point round hang up on an SKS feed ramp and set the bullet back. The real lesson here is not to use soft-point bullets in the SKS.

I crimp my 7.62x54R. That's because one day I was firing my M38 and the recoil caused the bullet in one of the rounds in the magazine to back out of the case a bit. I discovered this when the bolt wouldn't close on the round.

The problem with low powder charges is not a mysterious high pressure. It's that a bullet can get stuck in the barrel and the next bullet down the spout will cause a bad day. Either Speer or Sierra write about this phenomenon. They claim that no laboratory has ever seen pressure go higher with a lower load, but note that plenty of shooters have seen pressure go sky high when there's a round stuck in the bore and another round is fired.

I keep a Sharpie on the bench for writing on cases. When I'm working up a load, I'll write the powder weight on each case. Can't get 'em mixed up that way.

[carnaby]

So how low is too low? Will the round actually get stuck with 60 grains? Shouldn't the bullet still squirt out the end of the gun even loaded down to .30-30 range? Where can I find this stuff out?

[WayneConrad]

Too low is anything below the starting load in your load manual. I think the technicians developing the loads have set the starting load so that a bullet will not stick even in a very long barrel with a tight bore.

[carnaby]

But then how does a .30-06 not get stuck? It's the same barrel isn't it? Same bullet. Same powder. Slightly different case volume. And also how does Remington make the "managed recoil" ammo that takes my .300 win mag down to below a .308 in terms of velocity and energy?

Anyway, I can see that the bare minimum would be at least what the starting charge for a weak-ish .308 bolt action that would fire in essentially the same rifle. Why would it be higher?

[YellowLab]

A Lee Factory Crimp is not really a crimp, now is it? I mean it is not folding any part of the neck into the bullet.

A propery set up Lee FCD will 1. post size, and 2. put the neck firmly around the bullet. If you are deforming the bullet you are doing something wrong... very wrong.

Its better to crimp than not.. crimping will not harm accuracy, but can only improve it. Consistant neck tension etc.

And for $8 its a steal.... for what people pay for a single non Lee die you can get the FCD set and make more consistant ammo.

[carnaby]

Thanks for the vote of confidence YellowLab. I'm glad of the other's comments too, as I'll be skeptical until I see the results myself, one way or the other.

A note on reduced power loadings. I found this informative page (http://www.woodsdrummer.com/ml07.html) that gives some advice. Here's a quote that's important for me especially since I'm using Hodgdon H4350:

Powders such as IMR4831 and 4350 and Hodgdon’s 250 and H450 should never be reduced below 90 percent, due to erratic ignition. Hodgdon’s H100 should not be reduced below 97 percent.
I contacted Hodgdon directly about this and I'll wait for their answer before trying out anything below 63 grains (90% of the max load).

The website linked above does say that you can safely load your cartridges way down to varmint levels if you use the right components. I'm going to give this a wack.

I think this is good advice too

Finally, be advised that you should never trust any reloading data published on the Internet or copied down by a friend, no matter how well-intentioned. Proofreading and accuracy are apparently foreign concepts when it comes to this medium, and you have no idea how careful or careless anyone may be--and of course that includes this author and this posting as well. Let me repeat that: NEVER TRUST ANY RELOADING DATA PUBLISHED ON THE INTERNET. Base all your planning on reputable, verifiable data published by the major reloading companies, and only appearing in their original publications.

[USSR]

Its better to crimp than not.. crimping will not harm accuracy, but can only improve it. Consistant neck tension etc.

YellowLab,

If crimping improves accuracy, care to explain why target shooter's in ANY discipline aren't jumping on the "bandwagon"?

Don

[loadedround]

Carnaby: As an old time reloader I agree with the others on not having to crinp rifle ammo. Since you already ordered the FCD, loadd your cases with and w/o the crimp die to see if you notice a difference. By the way, your great pic shows a die in your press and two dies in the Lee box...didn't you receive a crimp die with your die set?:confused:

[dakotasin]

carnaby - if you want to play w/ reduced power ammo, look into powders designed specifically for that purpose - the sr-series comes to mind.

if you insist on doing it w/ 'regular' powders, get a chronograph to help you determine pressure weirdness before you lodge a bullet or seperate a case.

[The Bushmaster]

Carnaby...I recommend that you stay with load manual data and not deviate from it until you have a real good understanding of what you are doing...And for God's sake...Get those loaded rounds cataloged and stored so they will not get mixed up...

[carnaby]

They'll be properly catalogued as soon as my containers arrive. You can't see it in the photo, but I marked the load on the board in front of those cartridges so I know what's what. If they fall over and get mixed up, well then I'll have to pull 'em apart and start over. :p

[carnaby]

didn't you receive a crimp die with your die set?

Yeah, the bullet seating die will crimp a case to a canalured bullet. The Lee FCD works with and without the canalure, apparently.

[carnaby]

Here's some Hodgdon "youth loads (http://www.hodgdon.com/data/youth/300winmag_y.php)." Uses H4895 and 125 - 135 grain bullets.

[YellowLab]

Please reread my post.. I said it could only help. As it in might benifit you, it might not... but it will not be a detriment to accuracy.

I have no idea why people do what they do.. ppl are still loading AR/M16 30 round mags with 28 rounds... even though the problem was solved years ago.

Let me ask you this... how can post sizing and consistant neck tension be a BAD thing????

[redneck2]

a simple idea that helps a lot...

get some snack size zip lock baggies. Get "load labels" from Midway or any other source and mark them, then paste them on the outside of the baggies and segregate your loads

I first used the plastic boxes. Each load was carefully placed in the appropriate area. My friend took the box out of my Jeep and dropped it, and all the loads ended up in a pile:banghead:

Once the loads are zip locked, they never get mixed up. Trust me, it works great.

[carnaby]

Good idea! Thanks. That sure is simple, I shoulda thought of it :D

[confed sailor]

congats, carn.

i use my crimp dies, granted mainly for pistol ammo.

and its addicting, i took stock and saw i have dies for 13 differing calibers, i need to stop buying old guns in odd calibers.

[only1asterisk]

confed sailor,

I may have 13 sets of dies for guns that I don't have anymore.

David

[PinoyInFL]

I've been reloading for about a year now but have only gone to rifle reloading lately. One of tips given to me was to get a "drop-in" type case length guage. Excessive case length could be really dangerous.

[carnaby]

Do you still have to measure case size if you're using new brand name brass or brass that's only been fired in the rifle that the ammo is going back into?

Does the Lee reloading guide give safe case length ranges and do you measure from the inside bottom to the mouth, or the outside bottom to the mouth?

thanks :D

[The Bushmaster]

carnaby...What load manual do you have and have you read it??? I ask because so far all the questions you have asked here (and that's O K, but) are in the Lyman 48th edition and other load manuals.

The measurment is of the FULL length of the case on both handgun and rifle cases. That means the full outside length. And I always measure most or all of my cases after I have resized them and trim those that do not meet with the manuals or my specifications. That includes new brass that I have resized.

[USSR]

carnaby,

Are you talking about cartridge overall length or cartridge headspace?

Don

[carnaby]

I suppose both. I'm not really sure. I'll have to pull out my Lee manual tonight and make sure I understand this.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

only1asterisk,

"I may have 13 sets of dies for guns that I don't have anymore."

Hey buddy, why don't you put those suckers up for sale so some of us poor slobs who still own those guns can buy them and make use of them? :)

[trickyasafox]

i use a FCD on firearms with really tight chambers, seems to smooth of the loading process, welcome to reloading its very addicting!

[BruceB]

Double post, sorry. Deleted this one.

[BruceB]

Keeping different loads segregated can be a problem.

Right now, before you have the cartridge boxes, I'd take a fine-point permanent felt marker and write the actual charge weight on each bullet or case. Then, it won't matter if the cat scrambles the whole bunch and mixes them up.

For load development and most other purposes, I use fifty-round boxes. I place the cartridges in the box with bullets down, and use a felt-marker set of four colors to mark the primers, black, blue, red, green, or 'none'. At ten- round samples per color, this identifies all fifty rounds.

If the number of test loads gets bigger, such as in hundred-round boxes, the same colors may be used by making different marks. The red marker, for instance, could be used to draw a single line, or an "x", or to completely cover the primer with color. Anything that's clearly different from any other marking will do.

On the outside of the box, I place a stick-on label (from any stationery department) about 1/2"x 2.5", with either the basic info on each ten-round sample, or an identifier to link that load with my Reloading Diary. Each label gets a felt marker color-mark in a pattern to match the marks on the primers in the two rows of five to which it pertains. The labels are placed vertically "on edge" adjacent to the ten rounds each label describes (5 labels per box of 50).

Even if the whole danged box gets dumped, it's easy to get them back in order using this method, and it only takes mere seconds to mark them. It's saved my bacon (and test loads) on several occasions.

You MUST keep decent records of all your loads, or you're going to be working in the dark!!!! At the very least, get a loose-leaf binder and make up some sort of table for your records. I'd suggest, at a minimum, recording the the date of loading, the bullet type, weight and manufacturer, the powder type and charge weight, the primer type and make, the brass manufacturer, and the overall length of the round. A section for remarks is a good idea, too. You'll appreciate the records in the years ahead, believe me.

Enjoy!

[USSR]

carnaby,

You really should have a better idea as to what is involved in reloading rifle cartridges before actually doing it. Setting the headspace of your brass in relation to your chamber is important. Many people do not check this, and simply screw the dies in the press and size away. Then, when they can't close the bolt on a round, they think it's because the cartridge OAL is too long, when it is actually a headspace problem. Suggest a lot more reading on your part.

Don

[carnaby]

I hear what you're saying USSR, but these are once fired brass, fired in the rifle that they're going back into. Further, they're only neck-sized and not full length sized, so shouldn't they essentially be taylored to my rifle? That's the gist I got from what I've read.

Thanks for your help.

[USSR]

Yeah, necksizing brass fired in your rifle is no problem, atleast for a few times. Eventually you will have to push the shoulder back. BTW, you may get sooty necks on those cartridges you loaded with really light powder charges. That's an indicator of low pressure.

Don