[Spec ops Grunt]

I was just wondering what the differences between the two are.

Which is cheaper?

[LAH]

The difference...............'bout 100/200 fps. The .308 can use a shorter action if weight is a problem.

[jklinstein]

They perform almost identically for 150gr bullets. The advantage of the '06 is that it can shoot heavier bullets (up to 220gr), making it better for bears, moose & other very big game. The advantage of the .308 is that it's a shorter cartridge which many think adds to it's ability to be very accurate.

[Terrierman]

And there is still surplus .308 ammunition available, so generally speaking, .308 is cheaper at least from an ammunition perspective. .308 is still in use as a military cartridge so that is a plus in many opinions. Some will make the argument that .308 has more "inherent accuracy" than .30-06. Others will point out that the .30-06 has a lot more versatility and can be equally accurate. They're both good. I'm old fashioned to a fault and prefer .30-06.

[USSR]

I was just wondering what the differences between the two are.

About half an inch.:)

Don

[rockstar.esq]

The "....308 can't shoot 200gr bullets.." is taken out of context. When the 30-06 is loaded for a modern strong action of known quality, it can rival the 300 win mag in terms of heavy payloads at high velocity. That being said, you can load 200gr bullets in a .308 win AND get them to print a reasonable group. Again we're talking more about what can be done as opposed to the intended use for said loadings. Both cartridges have a long military history however the oft mentioned inherint accuracy of the .308 is well documented. In fact the center ring for the 100yd match was reduced in size due to the growing popularity of the .308 as opposed to the .30-06. The range of bullet weights in commercially loaded ammo for the .30-06 is wider than the .308 but I'd lay you odds that if you get decent groups with hevier projectiles, the lighter ones will shoot patterns. My preference is the .308 because it is cheaper to feed.

[Vern Humphrey]

Speaking from the perspective of a handloader, the .30-06 has the edge. You use exactly the same components, except for the case -- in fact the military loadings for the 7.62 (the .308) and the .30-06 even used the same charge weight. So in terms of cost, there's no difference to a handloader (and if you're concened with cost, you should handload.)

Again to the handloader, there is more potential to the .30-06. The commercial factory loads are on the light side for this cartridge, with with .308 being loaded to about 10% more pressure. Since a handloader can safely (in a modern rifle in good condition) load the .30-06 to the same pressures, you can get performance well beyond the .308.

As for accuracy, the .308/7.62 entered the competition at a time when components were dramatically improving. Much of the .308s reputation comes from comparing .30-06 scores from before WWII with 7.62mm scores twenty years later.

[MagnumCaliber357]

I recall reading somewhere that for sniper/long range sniper's preffer the .308 to the .30 06. Just look at current production M40's, they use the .308.

Just my 0.02 cents

[cavman]

I've read a bit on the metric 7.62 NATO and our .308 regarding cross gun/ammo shooting.

I don't have one myself, but there seems to be some consensus that the .308 can take all the 7.62 NATO it wants in addition to the .308 Winchester. That would allow one to buy the military ammo (cheaper) as well as the .308 Win.

(can't go the other way however. No .308 Win in a 7.62 NATO gun.)

[Vern Humphrey]

I suggest it's due to the availability and quality of the ammunition. We make or buy a lot of 7.62 these days, and it's a standard match cartridge. So it makes sense to use the 7.62.

[azflyman]

I recall reading somewhere that for sniper/long range sniper's preffer the .308 to the .30 06. Just look at current production M40's, they use the .308.

The military prefers the 7.62 due to it being a NATO round. Ask any sniper what he prefers and I am sure he will tell you he prefers what he is given. He has no choice (been there, done that).

As for accuracy, the .308/7.62 entered the competition at a time when components were dramatically improving. Much of the .308s reputation comes from comparing .30-06 scores from before WWII with 7.62mm scores twenty years later.

I believe this. I think you could get the same groups out of either rifle. There is a bit of a speed factor between rounds and the 06 is a bit longer action. Six one, half a dozen the other.

I prefer 06 because it is what I am comfortable with, what I reload and know, and has more commercial rounds if I get in a tight and need ammo. Nothin' sweeter that a good reload pushing a 180gr Nosler down range:D

az

[Rob96]

I recall reading somewhere that for sniper/long range sniper's preffer the .308 to the .30 06. Just look at current production M40's, they use the .308.



Let us not forget that one of the most known snipers, Carlos Hathcock, used an '06. In all actuality, snipers who get to choose their kit are going to the 300 Win. Mag., 338 Lapua and such.

[rockstar.esq]

One of the reasons that the .308 has a better reputation for accuracy is related to the efficient use of it's case. The 30-06 loaded with modern propellents frequently has a good deal of unused case volume leading to powder slump. This problem is exacerbated with light projectiles and fast burning powders. The .308 win has far less room for this to happen. Powder slumping has been proven to influence the shot to shot velocity on loads that are otherwise carefully assembled. Now some might mention that a reloader can use a bit of Dacron wool as a filler to remedy this problem however this is really only a handloaders option. I think some very valid arguements have been made to show that the accuracy out of either cartridge can be excellent. I would take it one step farther and say that more game has been taken in the U.S. with the 30-06 than the .308. One last thought is that "match grade 30-06" rifles are a lot less common nowadays than are .308 Win rifles. That being said, I find the 30-06 is more than 10x more likely to be on a used rifle shelf than any other caliber.

[30-06 lover]

Do you like apples or do you like apples? I have both. I am not a reloader, so the difference to me is long or short action? (I have no preference) Performance has been identical for me otherwise. If you do reload, you can get a lot faster with the 30-06.

[USSR]

Spec_ops_Grunt,

Purpose envisioned for a rifle using said cartridge?

Don

[Gewehr98]

A match-grade rifle chambered for a .308 Winchester round, and an identical rifle chambered for the .30-06 round, will both give comparable accuracy. Procure two .308" Krieger barrel blanks, and two Nesika Bay Model J actions. Then we'll see which has more "inherent accuracy".

Note: The .30-06 has about a 50 year lead, and 2 World Wars, on the .308 Winchester when it comes to manufacturing sloppy examples of chambering and loose bore dimensions. That alone would give rise to the the fallacy of the .308 Winchester having "inherent accuracy". Also, with the right powder choice, "powder slump" is a non-issue, canister grade or otherwise.

Regarding snipers having a preference for .308 Win/7.62mm NATO rounds - How much .30-06 do you think is in current DoD supply channels these days? At my last base, we were having trouble enough finding .30-06 blanks to keep our M1 Garand honor guard rifles fed.

[Vern Humphrey]

One of the reasons that the .308 has a better reputation for accuracy is related to the efficient use of it's case. The 30-06 loaded with modern propellents frequently has a good deal of unused case volume leading to powder slump. This problem is exacerbated with light projectiles and fast burning powders. The .308 win has far less room for this to happen.

Bob Forker has addressed this theory several times. The answer seems to be that a full case is better, but you can get a full case with the .30-06 just as easily as with the .308 (although you might use a different powder.)

In addressing the "shorter, fatter is better" issue as exemplified by the Super Short Magnums, he developed his .3 caliber cartridge. This is a .50 BMG case cut to about 3/4" and necked to .30 caliber. He makes the point that if the theory is correct, it should shoot better than any other thirty -- but it doesn't.

[LAH]

Vern I like the way you put things.

Some rifle maker in the Washington State I believe used the short fat theroy and convinced me but I was never into rifles enough to know if it was true. When a rifle I own shoots an inch at 200 long steps it plenty good for me.

[Vern Humphrey]

Fads come and go in this business. I suppose most of us can remember the moly fad, when so many people clogged their rifles with molibdinum fouling, or "fire-lapping" or "cryo-treatment."

[Gewehr98]

But I've also been shooting a lot of black powder cartridge rifle rounds of late.

At the last BPCR silhouette match, I was told something about smokeless being a fad...

[Vern Humphrey]

I still use moly in my F-Class rifle.

But I've also been shooting a lot of black powder cartridge rifle rounds of late.

At the last BPCR silhouette match, I was told something about smokeless being a fad...

It won't last -- the longbow will come into its own. You'll see.:p

[USSR]

Spec_ops_Grunt,

Purpose envisioned for a rifle using said cartridge?

Don

No response since his initial post. Perhaps a troll just trying to stir things up?

Don

[Spec ops Grunt]

Spec_ops_Grunt,

Purpose envisioned for a rifle using said cartridge?

Don

Large varmint to Elk hunting.

[kjeff50cal]

Spec ops Grunt Quote: Large varmint to Elk hunting.

.30-06, because of its wider choice of bullet weights esp. heavy (220 grn.) for elk.

[USSR]

Thank you, Spec ops, that made it easy. The .30-06 is a much better choice when Elk are involved.

Don

[Vern Humphrey]

As the late, great Townsend Whelen used to say, "The .30-06 is never a mistake."

[BigFatKen]

Jack O'Connor said about the .270, "..and for elk, step up to the 150 gr bullet". Do elk really need 220gr of weight? What do you use on 1000 pounds bears then?

[Vern Humphrey]

A 180 grain Nosler Partition Jacket from a .30-06 is the heaviest bullet I've ever used on elk -- and it had plenty of zip left when it exited.

[rangerruck]

i really dont see the difference any more, bdcause of the bullets available now. Wolf makes a 200 grnr , a 185 grnr, and a 200 plus bimetal grnr. now granted , you will still probably get more 30.06 variety in your gunshops and boxstores, but at gunshows, i see more varieties of 308 now.

[T.R.]

I'm certain that someone out there believes that a 30-06 kills an elk more dead than a .308 but I've never seen an animal more dead than another. They're either dead or alive.

For 100 year, 30-06 has proven itself where ever animals are hunted.

For 54 years .308 has proven itself where ever animals are hunted.

Whether one cartridge kills better than the other is a foolish subject indeed.
TR

[phoglund]

I've been cogitating on this dilemma for a while myself. I'm in the market for a new hunting rifle for this fall. I've hunted with 30.06 in the past and have always been satisfied with it's performance. Although I haven't hunted with it I find myself a bit of a fan of .308. I have several rifles in this caliber and there is something to be said for multiple rifles in the same caliber as far as ammo supply is concerned. I will be hunting elk however. I planned on using 180 grain ammo for the task and it seems the 30.06 would be a better choice for this.

Decisions decisions. It's nice to have lots of choices but sometimes it would be nice for the choice to be clear! Maybe I should buy a 30.06 this year and a .308 next year...yeah, that's it, yeah. :p

[dmckean44]

There's plenty of 162 gr loads in .308 that will easily drop elk.

[Clean97GTI]

I think it comes down to preference at this point.

The .30-06 will take pretty much anything on this continent.
The .308 will require you to be more picky about what you load and what you point it at.

I'd go after a bear with a .30-06, but would be hesitant about the same thing with a .308.

Then again, my first large game animal went down with a .30-06 and thats a difficult feeling to forget.
The rifle was too big, the thing hurt when it kicked, but the buck drops here. :D

[RugerOldArmy]

Two great choices using a lot of the same bullets. Use both, there is no losing.

[hobbeeman]

There is an article in the Rifleman this month that reports that even the African safari guides have plenty of respect for the 30.06, for the big game over there. But that only the Americans use it. (Apparently, the ammo is harder to find in Africa, so bring your own.) If this is a concern you have for your future, you can add this to your list of reasons.

[USSR]

Once you get overseas, the .30-06 is known as the 7.62x63. It has been and remains a popular cartridge among European hunters.

Don

[CowboyEngr]

Which do you like better - a gorgous redhead, or a gorgous blonde? I have a preference for gorgous redheads, but a gorgous blonde will do just as well!:)

[Vern Humphrey]

Which do you like better - a gorgous redhead, or a gorgous blonde? I have a preference for gorgous redheads, but a gorgous blonde will do just as well!

Until your gorgeous redhead catches you with a gorgeous blonde.:neener:

[pete f]

ask your self for which of your stated uses will you be doing more of...

more deer to smaller game, then a .308, a tad less recoil, a tad more accurate, but loaded with Fail safes or trophy bondeds, will kill elk just fine.

more deer to larger game. then 30-06. a little more horsepower, a little more versitile in weights offered. But loaded with 125 BT's and a hand full of varget you get a 3400 FPS coyote round.

i would just base it on what you are going to shoot more of now....because in a little while, you will buy the other too. and then another. and another........