[confed sailor]

Well the HC has gone and done it, in their show "shootouts" they are reenacting the "Hollywood Shootout". Now not only is this getting old, i mean how many tv specials and a tv movie does it take to cover one event.

But to add insult to redundant tv prgming, they are hyping EVIL "armour piercing" ammo!

What crap! I used to think the shows on the HC were fairly balanced, hell they gave R.Lee Ermey a show. but now we see the true colours shining thru.

Perhaps this explains the lack of "Tales of the Gun"??

another reason why i didnt buy a tv

[KriegHund]

Overreacting.

At least they mentioned the guns were illegally modified. The only bad points i saw were the 'armor peircing bullets' crap and them talking about 'the uber AK bullets blasted through the concrete blocks"

[confed sailor]

you say overreacting, i say signs of things possibly to come

[ReadyontheRight]

The week-long "Tales of the Gun" specials on The History Channel back in 1999 or so galvanized my belief in RKBA. I had been shooting since I was 6, and I had always been a gunny, but that series really got me thinking about the precious right we have here in the USA to keep and bear arms.

That show charted the technology of firearms, documented the role of firearms in eliminating the need for an aristocracy and gave a good overview of modern firearms.

I'm not sure where all this great content went. Some of it shows up here and there, but I sure would like to see that week-long series again.

[xd9fan]

They dont want to learn from history so they can repeat it....the programming I mean:p

[Optical Serenity]

The show is ok, its not great...but come on guys, this is the MEDIA we are talking about, not exactly the most conservative crowd.

[Nimitz]

Shootout is a damn good show...have you seen the other episodes?

I've seen the hollywood episode, its old and I didnt think it was over done or in the least "anti-gun propaganda"....that is overreacting for sure.

Chad

[whm1974]

At least they mentioned the guns were illegally modified. The only bad points i saw were the 'armor peircing bullets' crap and them talking about 'the uber AK bullets blasted through the concrete blocks

You have an object going at 2000+ FPS. A concrete block isn't going to stop very much. I have busted up these things in my teens with a hammer, so where do people get the idea that concrete=armor plate?

I get laughs when I somtimes hear "hunters" talking about the 30-30 isn't powerful enough for dear but an AK is some sort of handheld cannon.

-Bill

[Double Naught Spy]

you say overreacting, i say signs of things possibly to come

How many movies does it take to cover one event? Gee, I don't know. Let's see, I have seen about a dozen covering the JFK assassination, various WWII battles in many shows, the fall of the WTC in several, etc. etc. etc.

The fact that HC is running this version of the event is a non-argument. You are just frustrated that they have chosen to do their version and you don't like how they did it.

Yes, they played up the AP ammo, many of the statements coming from the police. In no way was that anti-gun propaganda. The AP ammo definitely was a part of the shooting and it helped to make some forms of cover that would stop or greatly hinder comparable caliber non AP ammo ineffective.

The only thing I saw in the program in regard to the AP ammo issue was noting that it would penetrate the cops' ballistic vests. Of course it would. What they didn't say is that regular .308 and .223 would penetrate those vests as well even though they were not AP ammo. Contrary to what many people think, AP ammo isn't ammo that penetrates soft armor. It is a harder core ammo (steel, tungsten, etc.) that will penetrate hard armor.

So let me get this straight. Since the HC presented a program you did not like, you have determined that they have now shown their true colors about being anti-gun. Would that be right? They present a huge amount of shows dealing with guns in various forms and in a positive light, but you have decided that this one show negates all the good stuff they do. Amazing.

Oh, and now you think that since Tales of the Gun isn't airing that it is because of this anti-gun true colors. They may not be broadcasting Tales of the Gun on a regular schedule right now, but that doesn't make them anti-gun. They actually have several DVDs on pro gun topics and are showing shows like The Real West: The Guns That Tamed the West. (Monday, April 03 @ 7am ET).

Given your reasoning, I would guess that if you worked as a steel maker, skyscraper construction worker, or architect, you would likely classify shows dealing with the collapse of the WTCs as negative propoganda as well. The collapse focus was indeed on the design, construction, as well as on the steel composition.

No doubt for a guy with a handle like confed sailor, you probably think the HC is anti-Dixie, anti-south because of their documentaries on the politics, fighting, and aftermath.

[Technosavant]

They do periodically show Tales of the Gun, it just normally happens in marathon showings. They have made a bunch of them, and quite honestly, there aren't a truckload of guns out there that would hold the interest of the average person for a full hour (I wouldn't mind seeing them on C&R rifles, but most folks aren't going to spend 60 minutes watching about the SKS).

I don't see HC as being anti at all. They are as balanced as a media outlet can be. If you want to blame somebody, blame the folks they interviewed for the show.

[mec]

You can't take the History Channel too literally. Their gun segments usually contain at least one glaring error such as Bat Masterson filing away on the hammer spur of his colt to "Sweeten" the trigger.
The also do a lot of stuff on UFOs and assasination conspiracies that are creative but seem to be essentially fiction.

[K-Romulus]

Though you can't really read too much into program scheduling, it should be noted that the History Channel had Mike Wallace host its documentary on "The History of Gun Control."

http://store.aetv.com/html/product/index.jhtml?id=73545&browseCategoryId=&location=&parentcatid=&subcatid=

This one program convinced my kid bro to go from RKBA-neutral/somewhat supportive to "hardcore anti.":eek:

[Crimson]

You really have to take everything on that show except the stuff said by those who were there with a grain of salt, anybody notice in one of the early Iraq war II invasion stage pragrams they show a CG 40mm grenade in the indirect fire role TUMBLING end over end, with the rest of the casing attached to the projectile

[GEM]

That channel is more progun than most. Get a grip. Some progunners are so paranoid that if a show mentions that guns kill people they think it is propaganda.

I watched the show - it was not a deliberately anti show. The channel has lots of shows about guns. When was the last time, you saw a techy show about guns on other channels.

Take a chill pill.

[seeker_two]

Compared to CourtTV, the History Channel is NRA-lite... :D

I watched a show on CourtTV--Texas SWAT--that went out of its way to demonize private firearms ownership. In one segment, it listed the firearms (all semi-auto & legal to own) found when Irving SWAT raided a suspected dealer's home. Then it went from showing the confiscated arms to full-auto combat weapons to decieve viewers (i.e. Hi-Point 9mm carbine to H&K MP5 in full auto, Yugo SKS to AK-47 full-auto).

At least HC tries to be objective. CourtTV must be the Bradys' favorite channel... :cuss:

[Justin]

So a show based on the premise of analysing various shootouts is antigun propaganda?

Whatever.

[bigdaddyb]

I actually like it when they rerun the Hollywood bank shootout.

It's a case study in what happens when you inadequately arm the men and women in blue. The injuries and deaths that occurred in this shootout were completely needless.

Maniacs will be maniacs. Idiots will be idiots. The least we can do is arm our LEO's sufficiently to deal with the rare criminal who has marginal planning skills.

[Tomcat1066]

I watched a show on CourtTV--Texas SWAT--that went out of its way to demonize private firearms ownership. In one segment, it listed the firearms (all semi-auto & legal to own) found when Irving SWAT raided a suspected dealer's home. Then it went from showing the confiscated arms to full-auto combat weapons to decieve viewers (i.e. Hi-Point 9mm carbine to H&K MP5 in full auto, Yugo SKS to AK-47 full-auto).

I noticed that one too. While they DID say the SKS was a cousin to the AK-47 and fired the same round, they could have at least shown an SKS firing instead. I must have been listening to my wife talk when the MP5 made it's appearance.

It was a fun show, I just watched for the tactics :D

Tom

[Phetro]

I actually like it when they rerun the Hollywood bank shootout.

It's a case study in what happens when you inadequately arm the men and women in blue. The injuries and deaths that occurred in this shootout were completely needless.

Maniacs will be maniacs. Idiots will be idiots. The least we can do is arm our LEO's sufficiently to deal with the rare criminal who has marginal planning skills.

Say...that's a great idea! In fact, we should make sure they're better armed than the general populace. Much better armed. That way, if um...you know...like, citizens ever want to stop the government from violating the Constitution and their rights, those pesky ingrates can be dealt with without fear of the officers getting needlessly hurt.

SWAT for all LEOs! Down with the Commoners!

Heh, in all seriousness, you think you're asking for more safety for LEOs. What you're really asking for is your own helplessness. I'd rather see 20,000 murders a day than have our nation's citizens subjugated to tyranny--and what you'd have is the reverse, whether you know it or not.

[Ezekiel]

I'd rather see 20,000 murders a day than have our nation's citizens subjugated to tyranny

Interesting quote, as 20k unilateral deaths is exactly what I would call tyranny: but I get your point.

"I just vehemently disagree."

[bigdaddyb]

Uh...no.

You missed my point on both parts of the response.

What I'm saying is stop applying Political Correctness to law enforcement decisions. In an age where body armor is available and is as effective as it is, LEO's should be equipped to deal with armored assailants.

Don't send cops out with a 9mm service sidearm and nothing more. Prepare these folks for the rare, but inevitable situation when that's just not enough.

This is my message. Nothing more, nothing less. Never disarm civilians. Never send cops out without the tools that they need to safely and effectively do their jobs.

[MudPuppy]

Anyone seen the guns the history channel sells? Sweet looking Yugo M48 Mausers.

[Double Naught Spy]

Actually, yes I have looked at what HC sells. They have some good gun-oriented programs if you feel you need to own them for your own vid library.

We had the show Tivo'd. I went back and watched it as I had not seen it in a while. Probably the worst part of the program that I saw was not anti-gun, but that they kept referring to the robbers as using terrorist tactics, terrorist tools, paramilitary tactics/tools. They were not terrorists. They were not robbing the bank for the purpose of promoting some sort of social, political, or religious agenda. They were simply two guys who wanted lots of money and figured out that if they are fully protected and well armed, their chances for success are higher.

The arguments made by the police in the show, parroted by the announcer, that the guys were there with AP ammo and full auto guns so that the could kill people is in error. These two had other bank robberies under their belts and not killed anyone. They apparently were smart enough to realize that killiing people gets you unwanted attention. However, they were not troubled by shooting people who tried to stop them. Once again, they were prepared and had a plan.

Did they use paramilitary tactics? Not that I saw. They used Boyscout tactics in the sense they came better prepared than the cops. They had a basic plan. The cops that arrived and for much of the fight really didn't have a plan to deal with the robbers and made up things as they went along. Eventually, the basic robbers' plan cratered, but at least intially they knew what they wanted to do and how to do it.

[confed sailor]

No doubt for a guy with a handle like confed sailor, you probably think the HC is anti-Dixie, anti-south because of their documentaries on the politics, fighting, and aftermath.

And just who the hell do you think you are???

You're damn straight im proud of my heritage and my job. The cultural war that is being fought to demonize the confederacy in the press and in academia irritates me also.

I just think you're a pushy yankee, one of the many that we tolerate out of politeness.

Now to the rest of yall' im sorry if i seemed a bit too whiny over this. However, this is beginning to grate on my soul; the anti's babble about AP ammo. Perhaps i did get a bit worked up.

[Don Gwinn]

This just in:

The Civil War is still over, and sources report that everyone who fought in it is in fact dead.