Bad neighbors


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Hot brass
April 19, 2003, 09:29 PM
I am sick and tired of the traffic next door. In and out. This is going on day and night. I went outside and started taking pictures of the cars. Two guys got out of their cars and asked what was I doing taking pictures of their cars?
I said no one has 20 visits a day that last for 5 minutes. We had words and I told them I don`t need this. I was turning the photos over to LE. I went inside and called the Sheriff. That was almost 2 hours ago.:banghead:
As three people left the female said thats the guy there that was taking pictures, I said you are damned right,it was me.

I am at a lost, what else can I do?????

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DragonRider
April 19, 2003, 09:34 PM
eh, Home Owners Association, say it appears that he is running a business out of his house, depends on the regs and stuff, can be very bothersome to deal with. I would make sure your house is secure before to much longer. You may get a visit if they are unsavory.

GL

John

Zundfolge
April 19, 2003, 09:35 PM
Based on the limited info you posted, unless they are running some sort of business out of their home like Tax prep or selling Amway, I'd say it looks like they are drug dealers.


photographing the cars and people coming and going, and reporting them to the sheriff sound like good ideas ... confronting them sounds like a real bad idea.

I'd also start logging tag numbers and time/duration of visits.

Flashpoint
April 19, 2003, 09:50 PM
I had a friend that lived next door to a guy that was running a meth. lab out of is house. How he found this out is that someone called in a domestic disturbance. So when the LE showed up, bing bada bang, they found a meth. lab. My buddy figured he had make someone mad.

CB900F
April 19, 2003, 09:51 PM
Hot Brass;

Your tag says that you shoot & your good at it. I'd conduct a real world home security evaluation & let everybody in your household know what & why it's being done. Then put your vehicles out of sight or be prepared to regard them as hot points everytime you approach them. Mirrors are wonderful devices for clearing an exit area without exposing yourself. Lock & load, you may be a lightning rod. 900F

TheeBadOne
April 19, 2003, 11:06 PM
Too late, but my advice is to do what you did, take photographs and record license plate, but do it covertly. Do NOT confront them. Turn the info into LE, and keep doing it, keep calling. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. Good luck and be careful.

Powderman
April 19, 2003, 11:16 PM
TheeBadOne has it right on.

Congratulations and thanks for having the balls enough to stand up against something that might be wrong.

However, as one of my friends puts it, "don't die on the rock".

Reporting the activity is a good thing; getting yourself hurt while doing so is not.

As was stated above, do your surveillance under cover from now on. I would also suggest getting some good photos (if you can do so without endangering yourself) of the people involved. Get some good facial shots; the best are with the eyes open.

Don't use a flash--no use calling attention to yourself.

The best by far is a videotape, if you have a camcorder.

But be aware of your surroundings, and make sure that your home, car and loved ones are secure.

Also, if this is a particularly bad bunch you might have to confront them one day on your property, or heaven forbid, in your own home. Be extra careful, and stand ready.

gryphon
April 19, 2003, 11:19 PM
TheBadOne brings up a good point. While I agree that if you have concerns that they should be documented and reported, ambiguity and covert operations are now not one of your options. If this neighbor is of the "seedy" type, anytime something bad happens with LEO or the like, he'll think it was you that reported him, and might seek retribution on you or your family.

As always, watch your 6, but now, more than ever.

goon
April 19, 2003, 11:29 PM
Call the sheriff back, and tell him that some of these guests made some threatening moves, and that you are in fear for yourself and the lives of your family. Tell him that you will be awaiting his arrival, on your front porch, with your assault rifle in hand.
Just the fact that you are implying that you are prepared use deadly force will get their attention.

There used to be a problem with coal trucks exceding the speed limit in my area to the tune of nearly 50MPH over (45 is the limit). The state police were contacted daily, but still with no action. Even a coal truck plowing through a mobile home that was being towed out onto the road didn't evoke a response.
So a guy that my dad knew, fearing that one of his or his neighbors' children could wander out into the road and be killed by one of those trucks, called the police.
He told them that since they weren't interested in protecting the community, he would do it. He stated in certain terms that he would use his 30'06 to slow down the next truck that he saw speeding through the area, permanently.
The cops responded IMMEDIATELY, and there haven't been more than a handful of coal trucks pulled over in this area for the last 20 years.

To quote John Wayne "A convincing lie is as good as a posse, sometimes better."

Psssniper
April 19, 2003, 11:34 PM
Had the same problem, recognized the drug dealer traffic pattern in the rental across the street and went to the local PD and talked with the narcotics guy. After listening to my story he asked how I was certain they were dealing drugs. Well...I related how I once was kinda in the business and recognized the signs. I also related that I had long ago changed my ways. "I knew it !" he said "I thought you looked familiar" We laughed about the irony and talked for a bit. Upon parting he said "don't worry I'll check them out" About four weeks later BOOM door gets opened with a sledgehammer and in go the boys in blue. Everyone got lined up face down on the floor. To top off the evening, as the phone rang callers were told to "come on over" Everyone who arrived in the 'ol cul-de-sac got a big suprise when they went up the stairs to see their connection. Now before you pro drug users get on my case, let me explain. I don't give a hoot about what you smoke or ingest. But these guys had indirectly threatend my family and that led us to one of two scenarios. Either I took them out if the scenario ever played or the Law takes them out all legal like. In my chicken hearted wisdom, I choose the latter. My advice? Do your detective work but do it with a little more stealth.
You don't need to put you and your loved ones in the line of fire.
Let the Law do their job, they're pretty good at it. good luck.

gudel
April 19, 2003, 11:54 PM
Too late, but my advice is to do what you did, take photographs and record license plate, but do it covertly. Do NOT confront them. Turn the info into LE, and keep doing it, keep calling. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. Good luck and be careful.

yup, that's exactly i'd do. be stealthy because they wouldn't know who hit them. probably a brothel.

QuickDraw
April 19, 2003, 11:57 PM
If these bad eggs are renters,notify their landlord.The landlord
could possibly be sued and/or have his property seized by the
cops.I doubt they want that.Good luck,been there, done that .
Keep us posted.

QuickDraw

TheeBadOne
April 20, 2003, 12:25 AM
To quote John Wayne "A convincing lie is as good as a posse, sometimes better."
A sensitive issue. You risk loosing credibility, or becoming the focus of 'the problem'. Handle with care.

cratz2
April 20, 2003, 12:59 AM
Good for you... seriously.

Lock your doors and stay away from your windows.

CZ-75
April 20, 2003, 02:39 AM
I hope you drive a beater and have a burglar alarm.

"Covert" is the operative word; too late for that now.

I hope you CCW and have a gun safe, b/c I'd be worried about losing my guns some day, or worse, getting shot with one. Your neighbor wouldn't see or know "nothin."

Phyphor
April 20, 2003, 03:24 AM
Exactly.

Be very careful how you take pictures, seriously.


Don't let anyone see you do it, as that'll earn you a rat jacket in short order.

to paraphrase an old saying "be slick or be dead. " <g>

Norton
April 20, 2003, 07:09 AM
I agree with the covert record keeping of who comes and goes. I just hope that the police department in your community takes your concerns more seriously than the locals here. My parents have the exact same problem with the next door neighbors.

They have lived next to my parents for 25 years, but as the father has become more ederly, the son has decided to just move his drug operation right into the house.

My parents dutifully recorded tag #'s and went to the police and they have refused to even investigate the allegations.

I can't wait to see the son the next time I'm up there by myself :evil:

Dad wants a handgun because he's getting concerned....Mom says "no" :banghead:

cool45auto
April 20, 2003, 08:58 AM
Hot brass: Watch your six. I hope the problem gets taken care of without any trouble. Let us know.:uhoh:

hawk0484
April 20, 2003, 11:26 AM
I have been through a similar situation with a neighbor. He was arrested twice for receiving stolen goods, but got off...I think he paid someone off. I wrote down license plate numbers, descriptions of the vehicles and people who went in the house (similar to your situation---in and out quickly), and the times they entered and exited. I just kept turning in the information, despite being treated by the local sheriff's office like I was a 2 year old or an hysterical female. He finally was arrested about 2 years ago after another county's sheriff's patrol followed some guys trying to sell to my neighbor. The jerk finally served some time, but is back home and up to no good again. I really have a bad taste in my mouth for the local sheriff after the way I was treated before, so have done nothing recently.

The jerk in question is from Pakistan, and just a general, all-around SOB. He is the only person from the Middle East that I have had any contact with, and my dealings with him have created extreme prejudice in me for all of them...what a creep.

rick_reno
April 20, 2003, 11:30 AM
We have a neighbor like that.

Ala Dan
April 20, 2003, 01:04 PM
Greeting's All-

Hot Brass my friend, Watch Your Back!:uhoh: Looks
like you might have ruffled some feather's, with these birds.
Most likely they will try and form some type of retaliation
towards you, your family, or your property?

Everyone in my neighborhood knows I am a ex-LEO; and
I stand for what is right in America. Its kind'a like being a
Navy Seal; for once you take the oath, you really never
ever want to let that moral turpitude down! With that
said, just yesterday my daughter found a "shank" in our
drive-way. It's one of those with a fold-up illegal blade of
approximately 9 to 10"; in other words something that
one of those hoodlums would carry in their boot.

But I got BIG NEWS for those idiots, they don't want to
bring a knife to a gunfight; at least against me or my
family. As I would try to give the perp his very own
ventilation system!:)

My wife says to me, "Aren't you gonna turn it over to the
police department"? I told her, "HELL NO"! I'm gonna save
it as a souvenir.

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

nsf003
April 20, 2003, 01:07 PM
Now might be the time, if you don't already have one, to get a nice military style semiauto rifle. And practice with it too. Prep your family so they know the situation, it would be bad if the bullets are flying and they have no idea what's going on.

nsf003

Zundfolge
April 20, 2003, 01:09 PM
Oh, and if you have a dog, keep him inside and don't let him outside without checking the yard for new "treats".

would hate to have a poisoned dog on my hands (if someone poisoned one of my dogs I couldn't stop the wife from kicking in their door and wasting every last one of them :p )

david_reeves
April 20, 2003, 01:47 PM
This is going to sound a little off the wall.
BUT, it works.
If you have a PC at home (which it appears likely that you do)
And you have an internet connection (which it appears likely that you do)
Why not just set up a small webcam (cost from 20.00 up)
and have it snap pics or video any time it senses motion in its viewing area.
I have an Intel Pro Video cam (39.00 at Best Buy :D )
That senses motion, starts recording video, saves snap shots every <insert interval here> so often, stamps the video and snapshots with a date/time display, and will even email the files to an email address that you set up. You don't have to make it available on the internet or anything like that. You can however put together a fairly amazing account of the traffic and associated activites. I found that in my instance, (I placed the camera in an attic eave looking out through the vent) I could not only cover the entire driveway and street infront of the "problem house, but I could also get coverage without moving the camera at all, of the majority of my side and front yards. The nice thing about a webcam is that its on all of the time, even when you're not there. Its also nice in that you're not physically exposed to observation. It could also help out if you are "apporached" while entering /exiting your house or vehicle. As far as the law goes, I'm not real sure, but you should be ok in most states unless you're pointing it directly into a window of someone elses house.
The camera is hard to beat. Who knows, you could even set up the local Sherriffs Office "tip line" email address as a recipient for automatically snapped pictures. Or failing that, the nearest State Police Headquarters or the local news paper.
Not advice, just food for thought from someone who has successfully used the technique.

Lots of luck and BE SAFE

Dave

blades67
April 20, 2003, 01:52 PM
Follow up with whomever it was you gave the information to. If you keep calling they'll get somebody on it

firestar
April 20, 2003, 03:14 PM
When I lived in an apartment I had neighbors like yours so I feel for you man. It is a horrible feeling not to feel safe and confortable in your own home. In my case there were about 5 young (18-20) white men living in a two bedroom apartment beneath ours. They had parties almost every night and the delt drugs openly in the parking lot.

I called the apartment complex many times to complain about the noise and mess but they said I could only call the police and not them so I did. I called the police many times and I called the apartment people meny times letting them know the type of damage they were doing to their apartment and the entire building but they didn't seem to care. What I ended up doing since nobody was listening and nobody seemed to care about anything was to start to destroy the area outside their apartment even more. If there was a small hole in the wall outside their apartment, I kicked it in to a size that would attract attention. I ripped the window screens off their windows and smashed them and left them outside the window so people walking by could see them. It only took about 3 weeks before I saw an eviction notice on their door.:D Sometimes you got to get a little dirty to deal with dirty people. I say, if you know they are scum and they are making your life hell and they don't care, its on!

You have a vast wealth of knowledge on how to get someone so don't do anything without thinking it through first. Be smart, be sneaky, be effective and make them PAY! You owe it to yourself and your family and neighbors. Just don't get caught and don't let them turn the legal tables on you, they are the scum, make sure everyone knows you are the good guy and things will work out better for you. Don't get into a feud with them, you don't want the cops thinking you are half the problem.

BamBam
April 20, 2003, 04:47 PM
When you get no satisfaction from the law (I'm sure you won''t), call a local TV station. They love to play hero and may get something done.

Crimper-D
April 20, 2003, 05:24 PM
I lived in an older house in a quiet neighborhood where the garages of the houses opened into an alleyway that ran the length of the block. The guy across the alley (We lived on the corner lots) was a local cop in a nearby juresdiction. One guy about 1/2 way down the alley was running a fencing operation out of his garage and the traffic of lowlifes down that alley was 24/7. The Local LEO's were nonresponsive to the point that my neighbor figured to me that he was someone's snitch = He took videotapes of several months 'traffic' down the alley.
About this time, several local LEO Juresdictions in the county formed a Drug Strike Force With County backup and Federal Grant funding = someone at the county level got a stack of tapes and the local Grand Jury got some 'testimony' from several residents.
The place was raided, several slimeballs were taken at the scene, and enough loot was recoverd to connect to several dozen burglerys. Several crooks were sent away on varying charges
The Fence ought to elegable for parole late next year, but even if he gets out, he won't be moving back to that neighborhood - the house was condemned:rolleyes:

Monkeyleg
April 20, 2003, 05:24 PM
I had a similar situation in my old neighborhood about 13 years ago, with a large-scale drug operation running out of a neighboring house.

In addition to all the good advice given above, try to enlist your other neighbors' support in your efforts. It's pretty hard for the scumbags to go after a whole neighborhood.

If it is indeed a drug house, it may take some time before the police can gather enough evidence to support a raid. Don't get frustrated, these things do take time. If the police aren't moving fast enough, pressure your city councilman.

If that doesn't work, a little vigilanteism feels good. ;)

BamBam
April 21, 2003, 12:05 AM
Hmmmmmm.....
Hot Brass hasn't made a post since he started this thread.
Time to check the obituaries?

CZ-75
April 21, 2003, 12:32 AM
Well, it is a holiday weekend.

Maybe he had to shoot them and is awaiting a Mon. AM arraignment.




Cell Phone. Get one in case someone takes out the land line.

Hot brass
April 21, 2003, 08:16 AM
Thanks for all the advice. The neighbor (first hubby) was taken to jail Saturday. The traffic slowed Sunday, I have been up since 02:00, could`nt sleep. The cars are back. I am sick :banghead: of these non respectful low lifes. I will continue to call the local LE.
There are no kids involved, the LE told the girl next door to get the kids away from here or loose the kids(no running water). I have spoken with the two neighbors that care(are willing to standup to these people) we are keeping an eye on them when we can. I have to go to work now. I will keep you informed.:(

Kharn
April 21, 2003, 10:21 AM
It might help with the traffic if you put a sign at the end of the road with "Druggie (or fence, whatever he was) is in JAIL. Go away."

Kharn

CZ-75
April 21, 2003, 12:24 PM
It might help with the traffic if you put a sign at the end of the road with "Druggie (or fence, whatever he was) is in JAIL. Go away."



OR

"Smile, you're on camera."

Justin
April 21, 2003, 01:15 PM
Hey guys-

Interesting thread dealing with a tough problem. HotBrass, I wish you luck in getting the situation resolved.

For everyone reading this thread, please remember the name of this place: The High Road. Part of taking the high road involves not sinking to the level of our antagonists, nor should we use or advocate tactics that are illegal.

Thanks

CZ-75
April 21, 2003, 01:24 PM
Illegal, no. Unethical, yes. From my point of view, at least.

Ethics go out the window when a threat exists. No one is going to zip that rubber bag over your face saying "but he was SO ethical."

If I have to call child protective services on some crackheads next door, I'll do it, even if it is secondary to my problem, just so they get some legal attention. If they're illegal crackheads, I'll call INS. These things may not be "ethical" but my safety and privacy are more important than my ethics.

Justin
April 21, 2003, 01:36 PM
My above post has been edited in the interest of message clarification.

oldfart
April 21, 2003, 04:11 PM
It's going to take awhile before things get quiet. I had a similar situation once and even after the house had been torn down and hauled away, guys would come by looking for the girls who used to 'entertain' them.

jake01
April 21, 2003, 08:06 PM
Send the tape and any neighbor statements to the DA for your area. He/she can take action without the PD's involvement or at least light a fire under the PD. DA's are political animals wanting more power so they want to be seen as doing good for the community. Also, send a copy of the tape to the local TV station (make sure nothing in it id's you or your house).

AR-10
April 21, 2003, 08:38 PM
This thread is a full of embarrassing suppositions and "solutions".

No one knows that his neighbors are doing anything illegal, yet lots of members seem to want them driven from the neighborhood. Get a grip, people.

Pendragon
April 21, 2003, 09:10 PM
Well, nice to know things are peachy keen in Iowa.

In many parts of the country, the behavior described is indicative of illegal drug selling.

Maybe they are "just selling Amway" - I did that for a while when I was 20. It was all about people wearing power ties, learning how to "win friends and influence people" and dreaming about how cool it would be to be super rich and not work :rolleyes:.

I can spot MLM types a mile away - why? Their behavior betrays them every time. The fake interest in me, the "are you interested in ways to make money" and the evasive answers, etc.

The fact is - even if they are engaged in a legal business at their home, if they are generating that much traffic, it creates a hazard to the rest of the neighborhood - it is not zoned for it and the roads are not designed to support that kind of activity.

You migh as well say that people who walk into a bank with their hand in their pocket and a ski mask on should be given consideration until such time as they actually draw a weapon and make a demand.

Lets see - the constant traffic, the lack of runing water, the arrest of the "man of the house", the threatening behavior after pictures were taken.

Yeah, they are probably just a bunch of poets and writers and the traffic is probably their agents dropping by with offers and rejections.

Drug dealers endanger everyone who lives around them. If they are making meth, they could explode their lab and take your house out with it. If a deal goes bad or there is some dispute over something, there could be a retaliation shooting. Finally, if the cops try and shut them down, more bullets and the chance that the cops hit YOUR house and not theirs.

If you don't want people thinking you are a drug dealer, then don't freaking act like one.

I say good for you buddy - shut 'em down and keep your powder dry - if they pull any crap, shoot first.

Also - it is good to have a paper trail - then if they do come after you and you put one of them down, you are in a MUCH better situation.

Kharn
April 21, 2003, 09:33 PM
Hot brass:
Did you tell the police that you were spotted by the occupants while taking pictures? That might be something useful to get on the record, just in case something happens to you or your property in the near future.

Kharn

AR-10
April 21, 2003, 09:36 PM
Shoot first.

Well, at least now the topic is gun oriented.

Why hassle the cops at all? Set fire to the house and shoot them as they run out. They probably deserve it.

Well, maybe that's going a little too far. Go rip their screens off and kick holes in their walls. Call the BATF and tell them your neighbors are gun runners. Let the alphabet soup boys do the house burning.


Being arrested has nothing to do with being guilty of a crime. Having no running water is not healthy for children, but it is not an indicator that drug lords live in the house. If people were running around snapping pictures of me as I left a friends house I might think they were completely nuts and comment on the fact. It is not a crime to run an Amway business out of my home, regardless of your opinion on the matter.

Whistfull thoughts concerning keeping your powder dry and shoot first do not make this topic any more relevent to this forum. It is way off topic.

Matt G
April 21, 2003, 10:55 PM
Lights out.

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