[haole_boySS]

I need some advice...

I work at a large Telecom company in an office enviorment. Our dress code is "casual" to say the least....

Anyway, today I am at work with this shirt.http://www.springfield-armory.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=25_41&products_id=399
One of the supervisors on the floor comes up to me at 5pm (been at work since 11am) and tells me that I have to either 1) turn the shirt inside out or 2) cover it up with a jacket, etc.
She said that someone found it offensive and "threatening". She was not required to tell me who this person was. I did not ask what would happen if I did not do 1 of the 2 things but I imagine that I would have been sent home without pay.

I asked her "Is the criteria for being offensive up to the person that is offended?"
She didnt have an answer and said she would get back to me. Lord knows I could walk around my office and find 100 different things that could/would offend or threaten me.

One of the biggest things is in the Mgr's Cube. She has a Plaque and Certificate that says " Black Managers Workshop" Yes, I have checked. None of the other managers White, Hispanic, Asian, etc have a similar plaque or certificate. This is the same mgr that caught me on the internet viewing THR. She called company security and told them I was using Ebay to look at GUNS :eek: Are we supposed to be on the internet? No Does everyone do it, including supervisors and managers? Yes Does that make it right? of course not. I'm just trying to give a background.

No where in the official "Office Policies & Procedures" nor the company's "Code of Business Conduct" does it mention anything specific about what is and what is not approiate as far as dress code.
This is a Union office and I could speak to a senior rep tomorrow....but I really dont know if that will help. What can I do about this? What can I do legally? Should I contact a lawyer and tell him the senario?

I'm probably leaving stuff out but I am so pissed off right now I can barely type. I need some help/advice on this please.
Any and all replies are appreciated.

Andy

[Alex45ACP]

If it's a private business they have the right to not allow you to wear such a shirt.

[xd9fan]

I say fight back by filing a grievance. This crap does need to be fought head on but with common sense. Keep your cool but dont back down.

[ArmedBear]

Catch-22.

You could claim to be offended by a lot of things. They'd probably have to listen.

But then you'd end up with a dress code, because the company doesn't want to deal with the BS.

And get a Celebrate Diversity shirt.:D

[AndyC]

I can't really help much with this as I'm a newbie to the US but I personally prefer to go low-profile so nobody knows that I'm carrying (well, in Africa, anyway - I can't carry here yet).

I wear the gun-type stuff to the range - no bumper-stickers on my car, either.

[Hawkmoon]

To know what options you have under the law, you'll need to talk to a labor relations attorney. To find out what your options are within the company, you'll have to talk to your union representative.

IMHO (which is worth every penny it's costing you), if tee shirts are generally considered acceptable as "casual" at your company and they haven't defined "offensive," then you should be entitled to fall back on whatever laws are in effect where you work regarding "offensive" materials -- which probably boils down to pornography. Mainstream stores such as Barnes & Noble sell books and magazines with pictures of and advertisements for guns, so in the general societal sense they cannot be considered offensive.

Perhaps you could start by visiting the manager/director of Human Relations and ask what the company's definition of "offensive" is. If I were doing it, I would go in and ask the question first, and not tell the story until I got an answer. Only that way will you have any assurance of getting an answer that isn't tailored to cut you off at the knees.

[haole_boySS]

Thanks Hawkmoon, very good point. I will do that very soon.

[DKSuddeth]

First, find out what the official policy on dress wear is
Second, any harrassment policies also need to be known.

I've worked alot of different companies with 'casual' dress codes and the only times I've ever been told about my shirt was that it was too revealing.

If there is any 'discretion' clauses, like offensive material is left to the discretion of managers or some such, you're pretty much screwed.

[Smurfslayer]

:evil: In reading the lines of your post - and between the lines - I offer some wisdom from previous experience.

The culture of the company as well as your position have a lot to do with how much latitude you're given. I used to have a shot b-27 in my area with regularity, and other workers had similar. One day the bldg. maint. guy complained about an office mates sihlouette which could be seen from the street at night. It was on the radar for a week or two and went away. It went away because the group as a whole was solidly pro-rkba when he tried to "make a federal case of it" we simply looked at him like he had 2 heads and said "what about the rest of our targets"? :confused:

:evil:

Now after leaving that group, and with the "solidly pro" ranks thinned, we were much easier pickings. I was fine for 2 years with the Stacked and Packed calendar prominently displayed, even the women of the floor came by to check out the new month's display. Someone eventually complained and the MGR. and I struck an agreement I would keep it out of "plain sight"... he liked it too...

When I brought in a ceramic company award, shot by my M1 and vaporized into literally hundreds of pieces, that apparently crossed the line of then supr. and I found myself on the end of a tongue lashing. This was over the course of about 3 years...

Fast forward to present day. Currently, the Society for Human Resource Management considers any mention of "weapons, guns, knives", including pursuit as a hobby, fascination or obsession as the sign of a "potential problem employee" and one who is exhibiting signs of violent tendencies.

This is of course total BS, but it's what HR people listen to. Your post indicated a few things like the ... "black manager's workshop"...

Unless you're another protected class I strongly suggest you drop this line of thinking or find another job. If you're white and you even mention this, HR will move to fire you within the week. While I do think that it would be great if a large picture of a gun was perfectly acceptable, the reality is that a tee shirt in the office isn't leading by example, or putting the company's best foot forward to any potential customers onsite. Step up to polos, or shooting shirts with collars ( not 'golf' shirts, golf isn't a sport :-P ). If you don't make a federal case out of the issue, let it settle a while, and upgrade your 'gunnie' wardrobe. Use your more upscale gun clothing to make inroads.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

I don't profess to know anything about the laws or the company policy where you work. But I do know a thing or two about office politics:

The straight, white, conservative, Christian, gun-owning male always loses. The moment management dares to agree with you, someone will accuse them of being "discriminatory".

"The Management of XYZ & Co. value and respect employee diversity in all its many forms. Except for yours."

[Thefabulousfink]

Tomorrow start wearing a black suit and tie, continue this trend of "business formal" for as long as you can. It will make those who were worried about your gun interest very nervous. Other than the dress, don't change anything else about you behaivor. Eventually these "nervous nellies" might come and talk to you about your "morbid" dress. Now you have a case for harasment, first they complained about your t-shirt, then they complained bout your suit. The t-shirt might be slightly considered offensive, but suits are worn in offices everywhere.

While this may seem a little overboard, I hate the type of people who are so repressed that if something doesn't fit into their narrow view of the world, it must be banished from sight. At the very least this might force them to set some acctual dress-codes so that you will know what is appropriate at work.

Another option is to start expressing your feelings about what you find offensive.


PS Neither of these options is conducive to good workplace relations, but they threw the guantlet down first.

[KIDGLOCK]

Offense is not given its taken. Really screw with there heads wear one lib shirt one day wear one con shirt the next , one pro gun one day one anti gun the next, one pro choice ,one pro life etc. Keepm guessen:neener:

[Trebor]

Look at it from the other side for a minute. If a co-worker was wearing a Million Mom March shirt, would you find that offensive? What would you do in that situation?

Not every possible thing that someone could find offensive is going to be spelled out in the dress code or in the union contract. Sometimes the defination of inappropriate work wear won't come up until it happens.

As long as you are NOT actually facing any sort of disciplanary action over this, I think you should let it go. Be professional about it and try to get along with the co-workers. Leave the gun shirts at home, since you now know its an issue.

Getting your union rep or a lawyer involved is not going to do you any good in the long run. At the very least your opening yourself up as being labelled a "troublemaker" by your boss and at worst you could seriously jeopardize your job.

Now, if you do actually face disciplinary action, that's a different story. In that case get your rep involved and fight the charge.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

If a coworker wore a gun-control shirt, I certainly wouldn't go whining and snivelling to my boss about it.

P.S. I like fink's idea. Wear a Blues Brothers black suit, sunglasses, and smile obsessively to everyone inthe office. Make 'em wonder...

[RM]

You should wear the shirt in your off time. In theory, you are not wrong in wearing it. In practice, there are too many people who are offended or upset. Like it or not, your wearing the shirt is political and controversial. And in my opinion, it is not appropriate to be political or controversial at work 99% of the time.

[gc70]

An in-you-face challenge will get an out-the-door response. Thefabulousfink's idea is amusing, but probably too confrontational in the long run. If you want to practice a little guerilla warfare, do it subtly.

What do male managers a notch or two above your manager wear? I bet it is something a little dressier than the average worker, but something short of a full suit and tie. Start dressing more like those managers. It will make your manager uncomfortable because those higher managers will suddenly unconsciously identify with you more than with her - and she will realize it and can't do a thing about it.

[DRZinn]

Start looking for a new job.

[Devonai]

"Well, I gotta tell you: I'd be very, very careful who you talk to about that, because the person who wrote that...is dangerous. And this button-down, Oxford-cloth psycho might just snap, and then stalk from office to office with an Armalite AR-10 carbine gas-powered semi-automatic weapon, pumping round after round into colleagues and co-workers. This might be someone you've known for years. Someone very, very close to you. Or maybe you shouldn't bring me every little piece of trash you happen to pick up."

[The Drew]

"Well, I gotta tell you: I'd be very, very careful who you talk to about that, because the person who wrote that...is dangerous. And this button-down, Oxford-cloth psycho might just snap, and then stalk from office to office with an Armalite AR-10 carbine gas-powered semi-automatic weapon, pumping round after round into colleagues and co-workers. This might be someone you've known for years. Someone very, very close to you. Or maybe you shouldn't bring me every little piece of trash you happen to pick up."

That's what Tyler would say...

[Autolycus]

Got to love Fight Club.

[Baron Holbach4]

An in-you-face challenge will get an out-the-door response. Thefabulousfink's idea is amusing, but probably too confrontational in the long run. If you want to practice a little guerilla warfare, do it subtly.


Agree. Be more subtle. You might wear a polo shirt that simply says in small letters, "RKBA" or "Beretta" or "Marlin" or "Ruger" but without the firearm emblazoned.

[Thefabulousfink]

While my idea makes me smile like this inside :D (that's why I posted it), if you wish to continue working there discretion is the better part of valor. gc70's idea is a good way to thumb you nose at your nosey manager while still maintaining a healthy working enviroment (just be carful not to appear a brown-noser).


(did I use 'nose' a few too many times?)

[haole_boySS]

well, I talked to the supervisor that questioned my shirt and asked her to get me the company's policy on dress code, nature of what would be offensive and or threatening, etc.

she came up with the dress policy that was for "management employees"

It did not pertain to me. I am going to have the Union talk to her and the 2nd level tomorrow.:neener:

[Double Maduro]

Isn't this more of a "Free Speech" issue than a RKBA issue?

DM

[ElTacoGrande]

I'm as pro-RKBA as anyone can possibly be, and yet, at my company, I wouldn't want anyone wearing a firearms-related T-shirt, or a hunting T-shirt, or a PETA T-shirt, or a Brady Campaign T-shirt, or a T-shirt that says "support freedom of speech" or any type of issue-T-shirt. It's out of place in most workplaces.

In my workplace, I would say, "it's ok to carry the gun but don't wear the t-shirt!"

[boofus]

Take a cue from Milton from Office Space.
http://www.luminomagazine.com/2004.03/spotlight/officespace/images/milton/milton2.jpg
Burn the place down. :o

[Ryder]

She said that someone found it offensive and "threatening". She was not required to tell me who this person was.

Makes sense to deflect the anger away from themselves toward somebody that doesn't even exist.

Power tripping managers are habitual liars. Ignoring them without getting into trouble is an art form. :evil: