[eagle24]

Some of the places I looked don't carry a Dragoon. Who are some of the dealers that carry a good 3rd model Dragoon? I want a steel frame and steel backstrap.

[mec]

As far as I know Uberti is the only maker of 3rd dragoons at this time. In the past,Armi San Marco made one. It was pretty but they were not really shootable without a lot of work.

[sjohns]

I dunno mec, maybe someone else did work to the one I got my hands on. But it shoots well. I also have a second to keep for parts. The hammer spring seems to be my biggest complaint. Haven't worked on it yet.

It was made in 73:

[mec]

That's an interesting looking one. Bates has one that was well finished on the outside but they had just dropped in an undersized bolt with no attempt at fitting. It was tearing up the cylinder notches. He found a generic one and fitted it. they had also bored all the chambers different sizes and he had to equalize those. When He got through, it shot very well.

A local guy told me that ASM didn't stick with any particular source for their lock parts. In order to keep them in repair, he had to match up serial numbers to get parts that were pretty close to the same.

[sjohns]

The best source I have found so far is the Muzzle Loaders Emporium.
If you need a link, let me know.

LOTS of ASM parts that work well. I have gotten parts for CVA pistols there which are ASM actually. I had to find out the hard way.

I hate giving away some of my secret sources, but you folks are worth it.
I have always been in fear that ASM parts would dry up, and I have even chosen not to buy ASM guns that I really liked because of it.

But to answer your original question directly, the new Ubertis are probably the best bet. I think there are also a few "Colts" out there in that model.

On that carbine I showed you... the cylinder says Dragoons instead of USMR, I have yet to find an extra cylinder. It could stand a good bluing, but I think I'll leave it naked... I just got struck by the uniqueness of it and had to have it.

[eagle24]

As far as I know Uberti is the only maker of 3rd dragoons at this time. In the past,Armi San Marco made one. It was pretty but they were not really shootable without a lot of work.

If I remember correctly you test fired an ASM and the Uberti and reported the results in your book. The ASM had to have the chambers reamed? or maybe that was the Walkers, I can't remember. Anyway, I just found online that the Possibles Shop has the Uberti (or lists it anyway) and it appears to have the steel grip frame.

I'm trying to extend my effective range for a BP revolver for whitetail hunting. I would like to have a range of 35 yds, with my Remington I feel like my range is about 20 yds for adequate shot placement. How much accuracy difference have you found between the 3rd Dragoon and the Walker? With 40grs. fffg in the Remington I feel like it has the juice to make a clean kill at 35 yds, except I can't consistently hit the vitals from that distance with it. I prefer the 3rd Dragoon over the Walker because of the size, but only if it will do what I want. Am I stretching the limits trying to get adequate accuracy out to 35 yds?

[Steve499]

40 yards is well within accurate range with the Remington I have. This target was shot at 40 yards when I was regulating my sights. I made one final adjustment after I shot this target to move impact to the left and was having so much fun hitting stuff then that I didn't shoot another paper target. There were several old bowling pins at the range which I was knocking over consistently at 50 yards. (with a rest, of course) I intend to try for a deer with mine this fall. I don't think I could see one much farther than 40 yards where I hunt, so I'm confident the pistol will do it's job if I can do mine.

Steve

[mec]

That is a highly competent 40 yard group.

[eagle24]

Steve, Man that's great! I'm not getting that kind of accuracy from mine. I haven't really experimented a whole lot and the trigger had quite a bit of creep, but that looks like my 20 yard off hand groups. I did some trigger work last night and it is much better and breaking cleanly now. I'll shoot mine off sandbags and post the results. I'm just starting to get serious about what my gun will do, but my initial feeling was that about 20 yards was my effective range with it right now. I can consistently shoot 5" groups at 40 yds with my S&W .41 mag (off-hand). With my scoped .44mag blackhawk I'm about twice that group size from 40 yards. I just can't shoot the .44mag off hand! (that's another story). Anyway, both guns are capable of much more accuracy. Since I haven't shot the Remington from a rest I really don't know what the gun can do, but I have a feeling that it is not quite as accurate as yours based off my "off-hand" shooting to date. What I'm really saying with all this jibber jabber is that what is important to me is how far I can shoot off hand and keep it inside 5". That's not completely dictated by the accuracy of the gun. I just plain shoot some of my guns better than others "off-hand". I would however, expect that the Dragoons and Walkers might be a little more accurate???? Also, since I shoot a healthy diet of "hot" .41 & .44 mag loads, I'm interested in a little more power as well. Quite frankly, the Remington is much milder than I expected.

[eagle24]

That is a highly competent 40 yard group.

That would be pretty "dang skippy good" with a modern revolver and open sights from 40 yards.;)

[mec]

Here are a couple of 40 yard groups. Shot one handed which makes a little difference but not that much since these muzzle heavy revolvers are a steadying influence.

[eagle24]

Here are a couple of 40 yard groups. Shot one handed which makes a little difference but not that much since these muzzle heavy revolvers are a steadying influence.

Mec, Those are more like what I expect out of my gun from 40 yds. (so far 25 is as far as I have shot it). Nonetheless, I love it and am sure I will find its most accurate load. Since you are experienced with the Dragoons and Walkers would you say I will get more accuracy and extend my "hunting range" with them? I know I will get more "Giddy-Up".

[mec]

The longer sighting radius seems to extend the confidence level but the actual down -range accuracy is about the same. I've done basically the same thing with My 36 1861 and and 1860 army. At 75 yards, I use two hands and seem to be able to put five out of six on the upper half of a silhouette. Done this with the 61, the Dragoon and the 61 with stock attached. I seem to miss one regardless
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=37794&stc=1&d=1143741494

[eagle24]

Thanks. I'm still gonna try one of the "big guns". Proabably the 3rd Dragoon. That shoulder stock makes me think of Lee Van Cleef shooting the guy in the street at the beginning of "For A Few Dollars More". One of my favorite movies.:)

[mec]

The dragoons are cheerful revolvers. The screws and action parts are big and easy to work with, the hammer notch sight is also big and easy to see. I fitted a spare hand assembly for mine (uberti) and it required very little in the way of metal removal.

Function is smooth. Interesting historic characters used them. Juaquine Murietta had them hung all over himself. Charlie Parkhust had one on her wagon seat when two highwaymen announced themselves and she killed both of them. ( Charlie was actual a woman but found life more interesting as a man and fooled everybody for decades.) Harriet Tubman probably had a dragoon when she was leading escaping slaves north. If one of them went chicken, she couldn't afford having him spill the beans to the paterollers so, she would throw the dragoon on him and get him back in line.

[Steve499]

I just don't know how you do that one hand thing, mec. I can't seem to keep a good trigger pull going, try to snatch the shot when the sights are right. I like to blame it on my handicap (end of my trigger finger is gone) but the truth is probably I just jerk. When I'm sighting in, I shoot with the revolver held in both hands and my wrists rested on something. I shoot the same way most of the time when I'm hunting. I will always use a rest if there's one available, and I always shoot two handed if I can face the target squarely. It's a lot of fun to shoot one handed, but when I really, really want to hit something, I find I have taken a two hand grip without thinking about it.

I believe your pocket navy shoots better for you, one handed, than mine does for me two handed from a rest! Just read that. Trying again. Wow, mec, you shoot a lot better than I do!

Steve

[eagle24]

One thing I think is a factor with these BP revolvers as well as with Single Action cartridge revolvers is follow through. I shoot my DA S&W revolvers better than my Ruger SA revolvers. I believe the length of the hammer travel on the SA as opposed to the same for the DA demands a better follow through. Flinching with either will result in a poor shot, but I feel certain the shot is spoiled much worse with a flinch when shooting a SA. I often have someone load my gun with live rounds and spent cases so I can make sure I'm following through the shot with the gun on target. I know what you mean about the one handed shooting. I think it has a lot to do with your grip and your placement of the trigger finger. Then you have to be steady.

One other thing. I have trigger stops on my DA hunting revolvers to stop overtravel. Not a good thing for a Defensive or Combat gun, but I really like them on target and hunting guns.

[mec]

"I just don't know how you do that one hand thing, mec. I can't seem to keep a good trigger pull going, try to snatch the shot when the sights are right. I like to blame it on my handicap (end of my trigger finger is gone)...."

A common problem for most of us. I'm more likely to do it when I add to the confusion by using two hands. It kind of depends on which way you practice the most.

[ArmedBear]

Best mail-order Uberti prices I've seen are generally at:

http://www.buffaloarms.com/

I believe, however, that only the Walker and the similar Whitneyville (transitional model between Walker and 1st Dragoon) had steel backstraps.

Whitneyville:

http://www.buffaloarms.com/prodimg/CA083.jpg

[eagle24]

I believe, however, that only the Walker and the similar Whitneyville (transitional model between Walker and 1st Dragoon) had steel backstraps.

The possible shop lists the 3rd model Dragoon and the description says "steel backstrap". I know this is a dumb question, but in most of the pics I've seen online of 3rd Dragoons it looks like the front portion of the grip frame (from trigger guard to butt) is brass. In your picture it looks brass as well, down to almost the butt, looks like it stops about 1/4" before the butt. Is the grip frame brass on the front or is that part of the trigger guard?

[Old Dragoon]

The tg is brass the backstrap steel as they are two pieces joined by a screw in the base of the grip. the backstrap has 3 screw, one on either side of the hammer, and the one in the base. That is how they accomplish one piece grips.

[ArmedBear]

Here's a drawing showing the parts of a Colt single action (SAA and BP grip frames were all assembled the same way, with two main parts: the top/backstrap and the frontstrap/trigger guard).

http://www.urban-armory.com/diagrams/coltsaa.htm

What's confusing is that it's common to refer to the front grip strap as the "trigger guard" since they're the same piece.

Though there were some variations, especially for military/civilian sales and foreign mfg/sales, the following is typical:

The 1851 Navy grip frame halves are both brass. The 1860 Army grip frames are steel in back, brass in front. 1861 Navy grip frames are all steel; these steel grip frames were also used to make the 1873 Army.

Note also that replica guns don't always follow the originals, either. I have an 1873 clone with brass grip frames.

Side note: Remington New Model revolvers and some other less common guns had a one-piece full frame including grip frames, whereas Colts had a frame, and front and back grip straps, all screwed together. And like OD says, that allows for one-piece grips on Colts. A properly-shaped wooden grip can be mde and fitted so you just assemble the frame and straps around it and screw them together. Can't do that with an old Remington.

[eagle24]

ArmedBear, Many thanks to you. Now I understand what is going on. My only BP revolver is an 1858 Remington New Army so I was having a hard time with the different design.

[sjohns]

http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=7337921&aa=%20%20%201850%203rd.%20Model%20Dragoon%20Targhet%20Cal.%20.44

[sjohns]

Mine drove me up the wall.

The lever keeper flew off twice. At least I pinched the caps enough to keep them on the gun.

I couldn't discover what was happening so I had to walk up on the target to shoot and find. I couldn't stay any longer. The next time I go out, I will try and use 30 grains. It turns out that at about 10-12 Feet, I had to aim at about the belt line of the siloughette just to get into the center of my target.

I rested my hand on the bench at 25 because I thought maybe I was tossing them, but discovered later that they took out the neck of the siloughette, about a foot to a foot and a half above the six hold. Drat!

I used the middle rear sight V.

This is an ASM model, built in 78.

45 grains 777
185 grain Conical.
Wonder Wad

Anyone have any suspicions on the cause for the high shooting that wouldn't be sight alignment/sight picture? Too much powder maybe? It did group well in the neck of that siloughette.