Imbel brazilian FN-FAL


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possum
April 1, 2006, 05:24 PM
I was at the gun shop today and ran across the above mentioned, i am not really big into FAL's which means i haven't really had any experiences with them. So i was wondering what something like that should go for. the price on it was $895 which i am sure is high, because everything in that shop is high but i would like to know you guys opinion on that particular rile. are these a good quality made version of the FAL or a model to stay away from? it was in good shape used of course but looked like it would be a lot of fun. Any help and advice would be much appreiated. Thanks!

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PAC 762
April 1, 2006, 07:17 PM
I'm 99% sure you were looking at a kit-built gun. Was it an imbel receiver, imbel kit, or both? Imbel receivers are among the best. Imbel kits are OK, but not the most sought after. $895 is pricey either way.

possum
April 1, 2006, 08:52 PM
pac 762,

yeah that is what I was thinking, pricy pricy, i don't know if it was a imbel kit gun or the reciever was made by imbel, all i know is that on the side of the reciever(right side) was were i saw the imbel brazil writting.


http://world.guns.ru/assault/as24f-e.htm

here is a link. the second gun down is exactly like the one at the shop(looks wise) with the only difference is the flash suppresor is different. I appologize i don't know more about the subjet of fal's!

JohnKSa
April 1, 2006, 08:55 PM
IAI made a bunch of Imbel on Imbel kit guns. (Imbel parts kit on an Imbel receiver). I have one of them and they're about as nice as the kit-built guns get (short of an STG-58A from DSA), but $895 might be a bit on the high side. Somewhere in the $750 to $800 range is probably closer to the right price.

goon
April 1, 2006, 08:56 PM
Price sounds a little high to me. I bought an ORF Imbel build a couple years ago for $550 and shipping.
For a little more you would have a DSA STG-58 and it would be money well spent. :D

possum
April 1, 2006, 08:56 PM
i can probally talk him down to $800 or a little less, i do alot of business with the guy that owns the shop. What kind of accuracy can be expected? thanks!

JohnKSa
April 1, 2006, 09:02 PM
Mine shoots ok, but has a tendency to walk rounds diagonally on the target as the barrel heats. I've got an aftermarket handguard set that might contribute to the problem. I need to put the original set back on and see if it stops.

I'd guess between 2-3" at 100 yards with decent ammo as long as you keep the barrel relatively cool.

Where are you located? I'd be willing to sell mine if you're close enough for an FTF.

possum
April 1, 2006, 09:12 PM
ft.riley kansas right now, soon will be ps'ing to ft. stewart. georgia

JohnKSa
April 1, 2006, 09:35 PM
By the time you pay shipping and transfer on mine, you'd be better buying the one at the shop--IF you can talk him down to below $800.

At any rate, I don't like the idea of selling guns sight unseen--too many ways for the person buying to be unhappy and no way of fixing it without someone spending money...

Hope your new location is a step-up, and good luck with your bargaining.

John

possum
April 1, 2006, 09:51 PM
thanks john,

yeah even if georgia isn't a step up i will be only 4 hours from home and i can get great deals all day long thier. i am hoping to be out of here in 3 months or so. please God please!:)

hso
April 1, 2006, 09:52 PM
An Imbel/Imbel for $800 is a good deal right now. Prices have climbed recently and good Imbel kits (all the bits except the receiver) are going for $300 in many places. Add the price of an Imbel reciever at $300 the maker has $600 invested before any clean up, build, coating takes place. Add the cost of compliance parts at nearly another $100 and they're up to $700 before labor and profit.

Make sure the barrel is good and that the weapon works properly before paying for it. Run a mag of ammo through it and if it functions properly you've got yourself a great 7.62 battle rifle that will serve you well.

Go over to falfiles.com and look around and see what folks there say about the FAL.

possum
April 1, 2006, 10:00 PM
thanks hso,

i appreciate the advice, what all do i need to look for, i am not very familiar with fal's. when you say works properly do you mean basic things like function and such, safety lever and all that jazz? should the bolt lock back to the rear when the handle is pulled to the rear or not, any info would be much appreciated, you have already given me way more than i had before i started, just a little more and i think i will be confident in the selection process.

JohnKSa
April 1, 2006, 11:01 PM
Things to check on kit FALs. Not a complete list.

Put the mag in and pull the operating handle to the rear. The bolt should lock open.

Pull the mag and you should be able to release the bolt by pulling back and letting go, or by pressing the bolt-release button.

Just in front of the rear sight is a funny looking knob sort of thing with a button on the side. Push the button in and turn the knob a quarter turn clockwise (referenced from the muzzle end).

Hold pressure on the knob because there's a spring behind it. Carefully let up pressure on the knob and it will come right out.

Behind it is the gas piston. Take it out, turn it around and put it back into the hole backwards. Don't force it--you don't want to jam it or anything, but it should go all the way in with only slight resistance right at the beginning of travel. Sometimes the assemblers will dent or bend the gas tube, or put in an oversize piston that's too large--any of which can cause problems. Check to make sure that it moves back and forth freely

When you're satisfied, pull it out (or shake it out), turn it around and put it back in correctly. Carefully push the knob down on the top of the piston compressing it back into the gas tube and when it's all the way down, depress the button on the side of the knob and do the quarter-turn counter-clockwise (referenced from the muzzle) to lock it back in place. You did look carefully at the knob before removing it, didn't you? There are two ways to get it back in and only one of them is the right way.

You also want to verify that the front sight isn't canted and that it lines up properly with the centerline of the gun. Sometimes assemblers will get the barrel turned on too far or not far enough and the sight will be canted too far to get the rear sight zeroed properly. If the gun has had a previous owner (since being assembled, check the rear sight--if it's all the way one direction or the other, that's a bad sign for the same reason.)

Check the operation of the safety. Up is safety, down is fire. It may also rotate all the way down and forward--that's the original full-auto setting which has been disabled. I'd have to pull my pistol grip to see what it does in that setting--maybe someone else knows. I think it just acts like a second safety position.

The gas adjustment nut just behind the front sight should rotate in both directions without too much pressure applied. They can be hard to turn, but if it won't turn at all, something's wrong. Also, if it's all the way one direction or the other, and it's had a previous owner who's shot it, that's not a good sign. The assembler may have left it all the way in one direction or the other, but if it's been test-fired, it should be somewhere in the middle of its adjustment range.

You can check the bore, but most of them are pretty good. If it has a muzzle brake, you might check to see if it looks concentric to the bore and also to see if it looks like it's been installed by someone with a clue.

Other than that, it's just normal gun stuff. General condition and wear.

trodery
April 1, 2006, 11:14 PM
I think for right now that was a resonable price.

Look here for lots of info on fals.... http://www.falfiles.com/forums/index.php

possum
April 1, 2006, 11:14 PM
wow johnksa,

thanks alot that is alot more than i would ever have thought to check on my own. next time i go down to the shop i will spend a good long time looking it over and checking all those things. thanks again!

JohnKSa
April 1, 2006, 11:37 PM
Be sure to ask for permission before you do any disassembly. And go very slowly and carefully. Odds are that the clerks don't know how to get it back together any better than you do, so don't mess it up. ;) Make sure you have a paper towel or rag on hand so you can wipe the grease or carbon off your hands periodically. Disassembling a gun with an audience and greasy fingers is a recipe for disaster.

Bwana John
April 2, 2006, 01:26 PM
JohnKSa pretty much nailed it eccept for:
(the bolt hold open)Put the mag in and pull the operating handle to the rear. The bolt should lock open
Only if the rifle has a metric bolt hold open, an inch pattern will not hold the bolt open with a empty mag without manually enguageing it.
(the gas plug) You did look carefully at the knob before removing it, didn't you? There are two ways to get it back in and only one of them is the right way.
Both ways are correct, but one way turns the gas off to launch gernades.
(the selector)It may also rotate all the way down and forward--that's the original full-auto setting which has been disabled. I'd have to pull my pistol grip to see what it does in that setting--maybe someone else knows. I think it just acts like a second safety position.
In the "A" position the rifle without a safety sear or ejector block cut (Full-auto stuff) should fire once when the trigger is pulled, the action should cycle, and then the hammer should follow the bolt without ignighting the next round. To test-pull the trigger, keep the trigger pulled, work the action manually, let go of the trigger and try to pull it again, the hammer should have stayed down, not allowing you to fire another round.
I would replace a full-auto selector with a semi-only selector, or a grip which does not allow the selector to fully rotate to "A", so you cant accedently turn the rifle into a single shot.

spartacus2002
April 2, 2006, 03:30 PM
if you buy it, the best accessory you can by is the DSA extended safety switch. It won't flip all the way forward to the auto setting, and it allows you to switch between safe and fire without having to rotate your hand around the pistol grip.

Foxtrot427
April 2, 2006, 06:24 PM
That is a bit high. I wouldnt do it.

Somewhat off-topic: Ive never fired a fal. Ive heard they pack quite a punch in the recoil dept. More than the normal .308 Is that true?

PAC 762
April 2, 2006, 07:24 PM
Ive heard they pack quite a punch in the recoil dept. More than the normal .308 Is that true?

No. They recoil less than the average gas-operated .308, provided the gas system is adjusted correctly.

Foxtrot427
April 2, 2006, 07:50 PM
Wow, then Im way off. How are they compared to an ARs .223?

PAC 762
April 2, 2006, 10:48 PM
How are they compared to an ARs .223?

More recoil, but not enough to outweigh the power, range, and penetration of the 7.62 NATO.

FAL's, IMHO, are one of the easiest rifles to hit targets with, and they destroy what they hit (compared to an intermediate cartridge). People seem to compain about the sights, but I've never been able to figure out what they are complaining about. Go find someone with an FAL and shoot it. Decide for yourself what recoil you can handle and how the ergos/sights work for you.

hso
April 2, 2006, 11:24 PM
You can set the gas setting on a FAL to recoil gentler than your Granny's kiss.

I've got M1As, FALs, ARs, AKs, Garands and the FAL is the most fun to shoot of all of them. While the poodle shooters have milder recoil they don't win in that area by much.

JohnKSa
April 3, 2006, 12:05 AM
Only if the rifle has a metric bolt hold open, an inch pattern will not hold the bolt open with a empty mag without manually enguageing it.That's true, I forgot about the inch patterns not locking the bolts. Fortunately Imbel receivers & kits are metric.Both ways are correct, but one way turns the gas off to launch gernades.Yup. People tend to get "excited" when they find their new semi-auto .308 is a single shot when they get it to the range. You're right--it's not an issue of damaging something but the rifle won't work as expected with the knob upside down. Unless you happen to have some dummy grenades, I guess. :D

buttrap
April 3, 2006, 12:50 AM
The Inch jobs just have the activation pin ground down on the bolt lock. Its pretty simple to drive it out and put in a new longer pin so the bolt locks on a empty mag.

Foxtrot427
April 3, 2006, 08:50 AM
More recoil, but not enough to outweigh the power, range, and penetration of the 7.62 NATO.

FAL's, IMHO, are one of the easiest rifles to hit targets with, and they destroy what they hit (compared to an intermediate cartridge). People seem to compain about the sights, but I've never been able to figure out what they are complaining about. Go find someone with an FAL and shoot it. Decide for yourself what recoil you can handle and how the ergos/sights work for you.Yeah I know that 7.62 is pretty damn powerful. I like that. Not as good for HD with the longer BBL and the ability to go through walls though. But I guess a .223 and a pell placed 9mm could do that in my house with thin walls. At least the floors are mostly open space so swinging around a longer bbl wouldnt be such a big deal. Ive heard great things about accuracy and reliability (old dirty on falfiles). I will at least have to handle a fal. Hopefully Ill be able to find someone nice with one. I would like to shoot if first. Ill def. handle one first. And if I buy one Ill try and make sure it has a 3-day cool off period.


You can set the gas setting on a FAL to recoil gentler than your Granny's kiss.

I've got M1As, FALs, ARs, AKs, Garands and the FAL is the most fun to shoot of all of them. While the poodle shooters have milder recoil they don't win in that area by much.hahaha. About that. What setting are the ones for less recoil. With less recoil what is the negative affect you pick up? And hell, if undernourished kids can fire full auto AKs over in god knows what jungle or sandbox then why cant a 6ft 180lb guy shoot a semi auto FAL right?

kfranz
April 3, 2006, 01:07 PM
hahaha. About that. What setting are the ones for less recoil. With less recoil what is the negative affect you pick up? And hell, if undernourished kids can fire full auto AKs over in god knows what jungle or sandbox then why cant a 6ft 180lb guy shoot a semi auto FAL right?

Reducing the recoil will reduce the reliability.

Really though, if you are 6ft and 180 lbs you'd have to be a gigantic pussy (or perhaps have joint problems) to think FAL recoil was anything to be concerned with. Yes it's more than a 5.56, but so is a light breeze. Follow up shots, if that is your concern, won't be as fast.

I will say though, that Century made metric pattern buttstocks will whack the heck out of your cheek. Recoil isn't supposed to be absorbed by your cheek.

Foxtrot427
April 3, 2006, 02:34 PM
Alright then. Im convinced. Now Its time to decide between a cheaper CETME and a FAL

hso
April 3, 2006, 03:40 PM
What setting are the ones for less recoil. With less recoil what is the negative affect you pick up?

Yep, if you dial it up to pass all but the minimum amount of gas to cycle you need very consistant ammo or risk failure to extract/eject/chamber. The standard approach is to run it down to where the weapon will "just" eject teh spent round and lock back on empty. Then advance it by 2 to get realiable cycling. If you keep it on the just-locks-back setting you'll get reliable cycling for a few mags worth of ammo and then the inevetable drag as the gas tube dirties up will slow it down enough to fail. Mine are all set at +2 to the just locks back setting.

And, yes I was exagerating for humor effect:evil: , but other than the AR and AK (which are intermediate calibers) I've not shot any military semiauto rifle, M1A, G3, .308 Galil, that was milder to shoot.

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