[possum]

now my next set of questions. i was thinking that I really want an m1a, but the cheapest i can get one around here for a springfield standard is $1300 bare bones nothing special. and later on down the road i would like to upgrade certain parts like the front and rear sights, trigger, and barrel and a few other odds and ins.maybe an upgrade every other year or so. the primary use for the rifle will be a MBR, just for shooting at the range and having a good ole time punching paper. I would also like to put a scope on later as well. so after all the upgrades I will have approx $1800 or more in the rifle. So i was thinking that maybe i should go with a norinco instead, which can be had for far less and after all the upgrades later on down the road, and maybe even a few more that I will still have a great shooter and have spent a signifigant amount less. opinions and advise needed, let me have it please. i need expert advise and that is why i am asking you guys!:) thanks again !

[motorep]

Nope. Norinco=China Sports=Chinese Red Army. Your $ can be better spent elsewhere.

[possum]

even though the chinesse are one of our largest trading partners, so by that do you mean that you don't own anything that is chinnesse made. what did they ever do to you? oh let me guess...... because they are communist uhhh hum:confused: just curious.

[motorep]

Just FYI. If you don't like the message, disregard it.

[hkmp5g17]

As they are no longer being imported (or legal to import) I doubt that buying one will help the Chinese Military.:rolleyes:

As an aside - in Canada you can get a new one for around $375:what: as well as Norinco copies of the Cz-75, 1911, and , Sig 226/228. www.marstar.ca

No such prices here of course!:banghead:

I've fired several of these with no problems. Not the same fit/finish as the S.A. offerings but seemed like a decent rifle.

Anthony

[MatthewVanitas]

If you want a base rifle to build on, have you considered getting a M1 Garand from CMP? Running as low as $350 or so for Rack Grades these days.

Especially if you're planning to rebarrel anyway, you could just rebarrel the Garand to .308 and then rock on with your mods.

Heck, if you're planning to change a ton of things, you could just get an stripped receiver $125, toss in some good parts, put on a .308 barrel and a synthetic stock, and still be several hundred less than what you'd pay for even a Norinco M14.

The question you have to ask yourself: can I kill it with 8 rounds?

-MV

[loadedround]

I know nothing about the Norinco M1A, but I am familiar with two Norinco 1911A1's owned by two friends. Both were literally POS. Very soft metal, poorly fitted parts, tooling marks all over the internals and generally poor Q/C. If I were in your shoes I would not purchase one; however it is your money and your decision. Just be careful and don't rush into a puchase that you will regret.:rolleyes: .

[possum]

Just FYI. If you don't like the message, disregard it.

i wasn't asking for a political opinion, and your answer had absolutly nothing to do with the questions i asked but thanks anyway.


The question you have to ask yourself: can I kill it with 8 rounds?


i am completly positive that i can and if i can't, i need to quit all together!:)
i might not be all that good with a pistol but i can shoot a rifle.

[Farnham]

Norincos and Polytechs both have fans here in the States. As has been mentioned, the PLA got the money a while back, so you ain't endangering anybody. Imagine the irony of plugging Corporal Wang Chung with a Chinese built rifle when they invade. Makes it all worth it. :evil:

I've heard (notice I said, "I've heard") that the receivers come with varying degrees of hardness. Some are great, some are softer. I've also heard that the ChiCom receivers usually come closer to USGI dimensions than the Springfield ones. (edited to add:) The reason I mention the USGI dimensions, is because a lot of the good scope mounts take some work to put on an SA Inc rifle, as they're built to fit USGI specs. My ARMS #18 on an SA Inc Standard is an excellent example. Took more than a little Dremel to get it to fit right.

If you're planning on replacing most everything with USGI parts, go for it. Don't be surprised though when you end up paying more for the GI bolt, oprod, barrel, and stock than you did for the whole rifle. I've yet to find a Polytech or Norinco rifle for sale, but when I do, it'll probably go home with me and become one of these projects. It and my (evil) Chinese SKS can plot against me together.

S/F

Farnham

[motorep]

Political statement? Maybe you took it as such. I've had business dealings with China Sports. I've sat with the president of the company, who was at the time a general in the Chinese military, and spoken with him- through his interpreter- at length. The comment by the previous poster re: quality, should be a heads up to you. What may be acceptable in one shipment may not be what you get in the next.

[possum]

I've had business dealings with China Sports. I've sat with the president of the company, who was at the time a general in the Chinese military, and spoken with him- through his interpreter- at length


please explain how this is relevant to the questions i had, i am sorry but i am a little slow, i am an infantry man.:)

[motorep]

Quote the whole post-it's what loadedround said- what you get may be substandard.

[possum]

thanks motorep!

[gezzer]

About the gun itself, replace the bolt as that is where the problems will occur. Use a us mil surplus bolt. After replacement the rifle IMHO is better than the the ones made latley by Springfield Armory.

[Detritus]

If you like the looks of it get it. you can't really go wrong with a good condition used Poly- or Norinco, they'll shoot and they're accurate enough. like has been said it's probably a good idea to at least plan on replacing the bolt with a USGI unit as soon as you can afford to have this done. IF it hasn't already, since more and more owners of polytech and Norinco M14s are getting this done every year as a precaution against a fear that "their" gun might be one with a soft bolt.

as with all used firearms, unless you know the platform well, an at least cusory inspection by someone who is NOT trying to sell it to you is a good idea if possible, but this isn't usually available.

on a personal note i'm just a little envious of the talk about M14/M1A types that i keep running into of late on the net (my fault, i scan www.m-14forum.com daily) b/c everytime i think i've got a shot at a good (once in a lifetime good in one case) deal on one of these something comes up and a miss out.
so go for it if you want it i'm jealous if you do :D

[possum]

gezzer, with you being a senior member does that mean you are an "old gezzer"? :D just messin'

About the gun itself, replace the bolt as that is where the problems will occur. Use a us mil surplus bolt. After replacement the rifle IMHO is better than the the ones made latley by Springfield Armory.

that is exactly what i was thinking.
thanks gezzer!

[Solo]

Nope. Norinco=China Sports=Chinese Red Army. Your $ can be better spent elsewhere.
Again?

[AndyC]

Chinese M14 rifle evaluation (http://www.fulton-armory.com/M14S_Eval.htm)

[possum]

andyc,

thanks for that link I just stumbled upon that link about 20 minutes ago and just got done reading it. thanks again.

[Mad Bodhi]

The Norinco/Poly is an excellent rifle,forged receiver,forged one-piece op rod,excellent chrome lined barrel etc.But it does have some issues,some minor some not.Minor issues include,gas lock thread is not the same as G.I.,Gas system not chrome lined,and rear sights are a crap shoot.Some are fine some are not.Any M14/M1a stock will fit BUT,the connector lock pin on the Chicom M14 is shorter than G.I..You can either glue in a popsicle stick or some bedding material to keep it captive in case it walks out or replace it with a G.I. pin.The G.I. pin is both longer and about .005 thicker.Also,the bolt stop pin is oversize so you can't fit a u.s.g.i. or aftermarket bolt stop.The only major issue is that headspace tends to be long and some bolts are soft which can become dangerous.Most people err on the side of caution and have a G.I. bolt fitted.I would the check headspace,if it's ok then record it and recheck every couple of hundred rounds or if there are signs of excessive headspace.When/if it becomes unacceptable then have a G.I. bolt fitted.http://warbirdscustomguns.com/Rifle%20Shop%20services.htm is well known for his excellent work with the Chinese rifles and very reasonably priced. Go to any M14 specific forum and do a search,they are regarded very highly.Buy one and you can upgrade it as you go and still come out money ahead.

[Detritus]

Personal veiws to follow these are MY views, based on what i have seen and info i have been able to gather, no more no less

the info in the Fulton link is good, but beware of Fulton in general, they (and owner Clint McKee in specific) have a rather "mixed" reputation. if you want work done on an M14/M1A, I personally wouldn't give fulton the time of day due to some of their previous dealings. Now Warbird as mentoined above is a good guy to use, and if i ever get a gun built or need work done to a Chinese rifle done he's who i intend to use, (though his proximity to me factors there).

[possum]

thanks for the heads-up on fulton armory and the warbirds custom guns link. much appreciated.

[Gewehr98]

I know nothing about the Norinco M1A, but I am familiar with two Norinco 1911A1's owned by two friends. Both were literally POS. Very soft metal, poorly fitted parts, tooling marks all over the internals and generally poor Q/C. If I were in your shoes I would not purchase one; however it is your money and your decision. Just be careful and don't rush into a puchase that you will regret.

I bought 4 each of the Norinco 1911A1 pistols back in the 1990's. I bought them because Colt and Springfield, Inc. were having serious quality control problems, and I wanted to get into IPSC and have a dependable base gun to use as a starting point for competition and CCW. Norinco came highly recommended, by none other than some of the premier 1911-smiths in this country. When my 1911-smith examined the Norks, he was impressed by the quality of the ordnance-grade steel, the pin hole and lockwork locations, and the value of the base gun compared to domestic offerings. The rough machining marks are inside, where they mean absolutely nothing, the finish is just fine where parts interface and also on the exterior. The Chinese simply duplicated leftover WWII Colt/Remington-Rand/Ithaca/Singer 1911A1's to a tee, using a good grade of forged steel. Cut a Bo-Mar slot or flat-top a Nork 1911 slide, or radius the frame for a beavertail safety, then tell me how soft the metal is. I'll wait for the response, I've been there, done that.

However, the internal triggerwork is less than optimal if you want to modify it. Start stoning or cutting different angles on Nork 1911 lockwork and you'll learn real quickly. No biggy, match grade lockwork is easy to source from a variety of quality vendors, and because the Nork 1911 is such an accurate copy of the USGI 1911A1, they fit quite nicely.

Norinco and Polytech M14 variants have been used quite successfully to build competition rifles that even now are seen at the Nationals in Camp Perry. The bolts had a bad rap for being soft and initiating walking headspace, but M1A/M14-smiths fixed that by fitting USGI M14 bolts. The Chinese receivers are forged steel, something that even Springfield Inc., Armscorp, and Fulton Armory don't do with their cast receivers. (Fulton is using rebadged Armscorp receivers, btw) The only domestic manufacturer of forged M14 receivers these days is LRB.

[AndyC]

Possum, no problem, mate - looks like we were (literally) on the same page.

Norinco 1911a1s - I bought one in the late 90's after reading an article where Bill Wilson stated that the steel was better quality than the US firearms (I think Colt was mentioned). I put about 40,000 rounds through it after upgrading the sights, trigger and thumb-safety - what a beauty. If some bugger hadn't stolen it, I'd still be using it. As it is, I'd buy a Norinco 1911a1 again - however, I don't know anything about the M1A's other than what I've read.

[SnakeEater]

If you're on a budget and your goal is to simply own an excellent MBR you oughta consider the PTR-91. About all they require is original HK furniture, $35, and a trigger job from Bill Springfield, $35-$50. Easily less than a grand.

When I researched the M14 market it was my conclusion that the best out there is the LRB M14SA. If you go this route save your money and get an LRB, no doubt about it they are worth the money.