[Bootwaffle.com]

Hi friends. I am looking for a rifle with the following:

- A pretty good "knock-down" power.

- Bolt-action

- "Sniper Rifle"

- Fair tactical useage (Used by military, police, SWAT snipers etc.) - This isn't a must, but it's prefered.

- Little or practically no recoil at all. I hate hard recoil.



If anyone can point me twoards a particular model of gun, or a specific caliber I am looking for, that would be great.

Thank you.

[Delmar]

Look at a heavy barreled Remington or Savage in 243 Winchester caliber. Actually, the 308 Winchester in a heavy rifle does not kick much, but if you are really recoil sensitive, the 243 is probably more suited to you.

Knockdown power is relative. You still have to hit the target in order for any of that "knockdown power" to do any good at all. That said, if you are recoil shy, its not going to do you any good to step out with a heavy recoiling magnum at all.

Keep in mind that its all relative. A properly fitting stock makes it easier to handle recoil, as does the weight of the rifle itself vs the caliber you are using. I see guys shooting 223 remingtons out of a heavy barrel and its hard to see the rifle move much at all. The disadvantage would be bullet weight. The lighter weight bullets run out of steam a little quicker than a heavy one in the same caliber, and the wind pushes them around more too.

You did not mention what you will be shooting with this rig or at what distances, but the 243 is a pretty good compromise. If you plan on a lot of carrying of this rifle, eat your wheaties-both the HB Rem and Savage weigh a bit.

[Bootwaffle.com]

Thanks man. I would be shooting long distance (arround 100-500 meters) at mostly targets, but hunting might come up in the future as well which is why I was concerned about "knock-down" power.

I'm not a weak person or anything, I am just not a fan of big recoil. I prefer a 20 GA. shotgun over a 12 GA, even though I've never shot a 12. I can handle 20 GA. recoil good, but have never shot anything bigger than that (in recoil terms), nor do I really want to.

This (http://www.impactguns.com/store/082442814032.html) or this (http://www.impactguns.com/store/082442814025.html) looks pretty good, but thats where the recoil and "knock-down" comes in.

I know nothing of these two calibers (.223 and .308), but they seem to be pretty popular rifle calibers. I dunno.

Can you give me the run-down on .223 and .308 and their differences, or if it would even be the caliber I'm looking for?

[rangerruck]

308 will give you range and knockdown power, plus ammo is cheap. i like the Saiga 16 in bbl for semi auto, no recoil. for bolt it would be tough to beat either a savage with a 26 in bbl, or a cz. if you want a little milder cartridge, the 6.5 swede is about as good as it gets , to do everything from varmint hunt , to long range work. Plus ammo is very reasonable for this as well.

[Delmar]

Between the two calibers, the 308 is going to carry more energy farther than the 223. The reason both calibers are popular is because they are 2 of the current military calibers.

The Tikka rifle you linked to is supposed to be a pretty good rifle, and sure ought to be for that amount of cheese!

Depending on what you plan to hunt will also determine which caliber will work best for you. If you are shooting at small game or varmints, the 223 is going to be more economical for you, but would not be the best choice for a white tailed deer at 300 yards, either. Most anything from a 243 Winchester to a 30-06 would be better choices for medium game.

As rangerruck pointed out, the 308 will give you a pretty good balance of power and trajectory without a lot of kick. The 30-06 generally give about 10% more power on average than a 308 and will handle heavier bullets.

I have a Remington Varmint Synthetic in 308 which I bought about a dozen years ago. My original idea for the caliber was to buy cheap ammo, which is still available. However, I ended up handloading for this rifle. Better accuracy and I also like the hobby.

When I am in good practice and feeding the rifle what it likes, its quite easy to group at a half inch or less off a sandbag at 100 yards. I picked up the rifle for about $500 and the scope/mounts for about the same price. If you are going to be a student of accuracy, I highly recommend you do not skimp on the rifle, scope, mounts or ammo.

Any shooting past a couple of hundred yards will require all of the above, plus a lot of practice in learning how to estimate range, wind and generally learning your particular rifle.

[Bootwaffle.com]

Thanks guys. Sorry to sound like such a wimpish noob, but onto the recoil subject one last time: I assume the .308 recoil is far less than that of a 20 GA. shotgun, correct? I don't want to be about ready to shoot this and have to stop because I have a Charlie Horse cripling my arm. I'd like to know what to expect beforehand.

So basically I'm to stick with the .308 caliber for what I'd like?

[redneck2]

pretty good "knock-down" power.
Pretty good rule of thumb. The more it kills on the front, the more it kills on the back. I'm 5'7" 170 and was shooting a 7 Rem mag yesterday. It actually kicked a lot less than I would suspect, but it's in a heavy rifle (Sendero with a heavy barrel and composite stock)

Gun's weight, stock, and especially the recoil pad have as much to do with the recoil as caliber IMO. Double up on hearing protection. Hard to believe, but a lot of "recoil" is actually the anticipation of the muzzle blast. I had a hard time believing this at first, but it's definitely true.

you might consider a milsurp bolt in 6.5. Light recoil, semi cheap to shoot. Excellent power to recoil. Accurate

[308win]

+1 for the Remmy heavy barrel in 308. See if you can find a dealer to get you one of the 5R barreled models. I hope weight isn't a consideration because mine with scope and sling weights around 15 pounds; not something you would hump around in the mountains on an elk hunt for sure.

[akodo]

recoil is the direct result of the burning of powder and the 'push' it generates. This 'push' both pushes the bullet down the barrel, and it also pushes the gun away from the bullet.

the more 'knockdown' power you have, the greater the recoil.

Now, FELT recoil is a little different. It's the difference between someone setting a bowlingball on your chest and dropping a pool ball from 6 feet up on your chest. If recoil is slower and longer, it feels more like a push than a jab.

The best way to reduce felt recoil is to use a heavy gun. Now, you wanting a 'tactical' 'sniper style' 'bolt action' you are setting yourself up for a pretty hefty gun. Choose one with a long barrel, at least 24 inches, and get a very heavy target barrel. This will increase the weight of the gun over a standard bolt gun by a fair margin. Add a large scope too.

Now, for your two listed cartridges. the .223 and the .308 are where they are because both are the civilian equivalent of a current military offering.

Note, however, that in most places the .223 is illegal for deer, and larger game. It is, however, a popular choice for people who shoot prarie dogs, and for that you need to be pretty far away, hence you see a lot of heavy barreled big scoped 'varmint' rifles in .223

.308 is a shortened, modernized version of the 30-06. Now, the 30-06 can handle any game in north america, (although vs grizzlies and polar bear, you may be pushing the limits) and the .308 can pretty much do the same thing. Now, because the .308 is what the military uses, the .308 seems to be very popular with people interested in long range target shooting, (long barrel, heavy barrel, big scope) and again a long range target rifle or a varmint rifle (although 308 really isn't seen much as a varmint rifle, the drop in trajectory just doesn't make it a good choice for working a prarie dog down)

A third choice is the .243 winchester. That is the 308 case reformed a bit to take a bullet that is .24 inches in diameter. This reforming causes the case to hold a bit less powder, so less recoil. As the bullet is lighter, it moves a lot faster, hence it is a somewhat common prarie dog gun, and while it really isn't the choice for moose, elk, or bear (black, brown, polar), it IS an excellent choice for whitetail deer, mule deer, big horn sheep, mountain goat, boar, etc etc. and is superior to the 308 for pronghorn (due to pronghorn often require a long shot over flat land without knowing exact distances, something the 243 does a little better)

[C-grunt]

Wow those Tikkas are expensive. You can get a Remington 700 PSS, which IS a sniper rifle, for about 700 dollars. You can also get a Savage police rifle ( I have a 10FP ) for about 600 dollars. You will definitely want to get a good quality scope for it too. I put a Leupold Mark 4 on my savage that cost almost as much as the rifle.

As far as the rounds go, .223 and .308 are both good rounds for "sniping." Using a heavy .223 round, like a 77 grain bullet, you can shoot out to 500 yards without to much problem. The .308 is a bigger and heavier round, so it is less affected by the wind BUT it drops faster. Using a good heavy bullet, like 168 grains, you can shoot out to 800 yards. These are all subjective distance. A person can shoot either round a lot farther if he is good.

Recoil of either round out of a heavy rifle like the ones your looking at shouldnt be any more than a 20 gauge.

[chakup]

Savage 10-fp .308 f/ JDyer here in the for sale section. /thread

[Foxtrot427]

Thanks guys. Sorry to sound like such a wimpish noob, but onto the recoil subject one last time: I assume the .308 recoil is far less than that of a 20 GA. shotgun, correct? I don't want to be about ready to shoot this and have to stop because I have a Charlie Horse cripling my arm. I'd like to know what to expect beforehand.
Im in the same boat. I like power and all but I like to be able to shoot round after round. Somestimes I take good careful aim, sometimes I want to see how fast I can go. Can a .308 be fired rapidly?

[CB900F]

Bootwaffle;

I get the impression that you may be located out of the U.S. That may be relevant in your caliber choice for obvious reasons. Not everything that's common as dirt here is ultra-available all over the world. Of course, if you're in downtown Kansas City, s'cuse me while I pull my foot out.

:D 900F