What gun control in Mexico?


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Apple a Day
April 2, 2006, 09:47 AM
I am note trying to do an end run around the current (mostly closed) threads but they got me thinking:
What are the current gun-control laws in Mexico? What can you own/not own?

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TexasRifleman
April 2, 2006, 09:57 AM
Packing has a good write up on this, including a letter from a Mexican attorney that helpos people with gun issues.

http://www.packing.org/state/all_of_mexico/

Generally, Mexicans are legally limited to handguns (pistolas) .380 or .38 caliber or smaller, shotguns (escopetas) 12 gauge or smaller, and rifles (same spelling but said differently) that are not common military caliberís such as .223, 7.62, 30-30,30-06,.308, etc.

However exceptions are made to these caliber restrictions for "registered sports shooters" - members of recognized hunting and shooting clubs.

Registration: Required of all guns and done at the local army base - every sizeable town has one.

From Article 10 of the Mexican Constitution:

Article 10. The inhabitants of the United Mexican States are entitled to have arms of any kind in their possession for their protection and legitimate defense, except such as are expressly forbidden by law, or which the nation may reserve for the exclusive use of the army, navy, or national guard; but they may not carry arms within inhabited places without complying with police regulations.

The Brady Bunch would love that. In the Constitution? So what, feel free to ignore it anyway. After all, since the people don't have guns they can't do anything about it right?

armoredman
April 2, 2006, 10:18 AM
Waitaminnit - did we help them draft that Constitution, too?

oneshooter
April 2, 2006, 10:29 AM
Notice that the 30-30 is concidered a MILITARY caliber. :what: I don't believe that I have ever seen/heard of a full auto in that caliber!:D

Oneshooter
Livin in Texas

utahminirevolver
April 2, 2006, 11:25 AM
On the one hand you can read warnings to Americans not to have even a single cartridge somewhere in your possession if you go to Mexico. Very strict gun control.

On the other hand you can see in the news how even police chiefs and mayors get gunned down by lawless thugs in Mexico, so evidently this strict gun control is not being effective against those who need it most.

IMHO, stay out of Mexico. The level of corruption there is much worse than what we are used to here, yet, although that will probably change if we fail to regain control of our borders and who gets to cross them muy pronto.

stratomole
April 2, 2006, 11:37 AM
I have a vague recollection of my grandfather having an ancient rifle hidden in a store room. I found it while rooting around for some leather scraps to make a slingshot. It had two tubes though I don't recall if it was a lever action gun or an over/under double barrel rifle. It was covered in rust and was missing half the buttstock. You could barely make out the chambering markings as 30-30. They were a favorite of the peasant rebels in the revolution of 1910. He also had a Colt 1911 chambered in .38 super as .45 ACP would've been confiscated. If you listen to old folk songs or 'corridos' they often sing about the 'treinta-treinta' or the 'esquadra' (1911).

I had an experience in Mexico not necessarily on gun control, but more of 'arms' control. My uncle owns an 'abarrotes,' a general store, in a small town. My dad was enjoying a beer with old friends outside and I was sitting inside talking to my cousins. Along comes the judiciales (local police) eager to enforce the no alcohol after 11 pm ordinance. I'd never dealt with the judiciales myself and had only heard bad things about them. I was raised in the US so at the age of 16 I was bigger than all of them, but still I found them very intimidating. To go along with their fearsome reputation they wore battle fatiques and slung M16s over their shoulders. They poured all the beer on the ground, made the store close for the night, and patted everyone down, me included. They found the camp knife with the 3" blade I had in my pocket. I had been using it mainly to open bottles of coke and forgotten I had it. The officer who had frisked me grabbed me roughly by the arm and led me to his comandante. Visions of a night in a Mexican jail, 'el bote,' flashed through my mind. All the stories of the corrupt and brutal Mexican police caused a knot in my stomach to form. The major glanced at the camp knife and looked me over. He politely told me to go home, I heeded his suggestion and promptly left. However, I didn't have the intestinal fortitude to ask for my knife back. I'm not sure if he confiscated it because it was illegal in Mexico or maybe he just wanted a souvenir.

TexasRifleman
April 2, 2006, 11:59 AM
I read that the .38 Super is extremely popular south of the border because of the .38 caliber limitation by the way.

Interesting cartridge.... I've always wanted one.

oneshooter
April 2, 2006, 12:07 PM
A friend of mine has a Thompson sub gun in 38 super. It was ordered by a fellow in Mexico and got diverted to the Corpus Christy PD during WW2. He bought it at the last full auto auction he attented 10-15yrs ago. It came with a 120rd drum and 4 30rd stick mags. The 38 Super is a VERY popular cartridge in Mexico and in several other South American countries that forbid private ownership of "military calibers".

Oneshooter
Livin in Texas

geekWithA.45
April 2, 2006, 01:15 PM
According to a friend, who hails from a clan of Mexican gunnies,

Most of the current state of Mexican gun control was put into place by leftists during the 70's.

As a result, most of the _positive_ gun culture of Mexico has either died on the vine or been forced underground, living mostly in the memory and occassional furtive shoots in the boondocks attended by grandfathers.

No doubt, this is what SarahB & co had in mind for us.

Manedwolf
April 2, 2006, 01:28 PM
The advice I'd heard most often is that an American should NEVER have a gun or even a single round with them when going into Mexico, yes. The police are so blatantly corrupt that having to fill out the paperwork to bring one in instantly makes you a target for pursuit and an extortion scam to get out of a frame-up, false charges and imprisonment...if you pay them.

Even people trying to buy cheap prescriptions there have been hit by a widespread scam where the pharmacist alerts a cop who is then waiting outside to arrest the American buyer, confiscate the drugs (which go back to the pharmacist) and take the Americans to a police station..where they're held and told that if they wire funds to an account or pay cash, it can be all cleared up. The pharmacist gets the money paid for the drugs, the drugs back to sell again to the next mark, and they get cut of the take. The police keep the rest and no paperwork is ever filed.

Imagine what they'd do with someone with a gun.

MCgunner
April 2, 2006, 02:17 PM
I am note trying to do an end run around the current (mostly closed) threads but they got me thinking:
What are the current gun-control laws in Mexico? What can you own/not own?
__________________

Depends on who you are down there. They're having shoot outs with ma dueces and RPGs in Nuevo Loredo. Apparently, if you're in Mexico's number one industry, drugs, no laws apply. :rolleyes: It's pretty much run by the war lords/drug lords down there. They've taken over from Columbia, I reckon.

Best to stay the heck out of that Marxist country, I think.

hank327
April 2, 2006, 02:23 PM
My mother was from Mexico and most of my living relatives still reside there. Guns are very prevelant there, but by far most are illegally owned and carried. I remember my granduncle always carried a Colt 1903 .380 auto in his pants pocket 24/7. Many other of the male family members carried Colt 1911 38 Supers and 1911's in 45 ACP. Browning Hi-Powers were also quite common. The legality or illegality wasn't much worried about. As long as you did not get caught, or had the ability to pay off the authorities you were good to go.

Once while visiting family in Guadalajara, I was walking home late one evening from visiting family friends. I was in a good neighborhood and had never had a problem regardless of the time of day. As I neared my aunt's house with whom I was staying, the quiet of the night was shattered by a burst of full automatic fire! :what: To say I was suprised is an understatement. The first burst was followed by a second and then nothing more. I hurried on my way, listening for more gunshots or for the sound of sirens, but nothing else happened. Somehow I don't think gun control is working as intended in Mexico.:rolleyes:

crazed_ss
April 2, 2006, 02:56 PM
I was reading an article that said a lot of the guns in Nuevo Laredo come from Texas..
http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=127956

haha

Since I was hanging out in Tijuana this weekend, I talked with two Mexican chicks about guns and the RKBA. One of them asked what I did for fun.. I was like "Race my Camaro, shoot, go out to bars/clubs.." She's like "you shoot the paintball?" she was amazed when I told her I legally owned and shot real guns.. lol.

My friend has a bunch of Family in Tijuana.. he was telling me a story about how his uncle got assaulted by 3 guys in TJ. The uncle ended up shooting and wounding 2 of the guys and the third ran away. When the policia showed up, they were going to arrest him.. but the uncle offered his .45 to the cops and they took the gun and let him go

Kinda of different place.. Mexico.

ElTacoGrande
April 2, 2006, 03:03 PM
As has been pointed out, there is a wishy-washy RKBA in the Mexican constitution. There is also a long tradition of Mexicans being armed, legal or not.

Our recent victory in Brazil, a country without a strong gun culture and without an tradition of RKBA, shows that it is possible elsewhere. Quite a few countries in South America allow their citizens to own and carry. Mexico could, too.

beerslurpy
April 2, 2006, 04:10 PM
I have always wondered why mexico turned out so much different than the US.

In many ways the countries are similar. Large land mass, loads of natural resources, similar dates of independence from the mother country, etc. But almost immediately after they gained independence and wrote a constitution, they immediately diregarded it and overthrew their own government with force. This has continued into nearly the current era.

Is it the catholicism? The spanish culture? The economic system of colonial mexico vs colonial US? The problems in Mexico started very early on, before the existance of socialism or even the industrial revolution. None of the modern-era boogeymen even existed when the Mexicans were resorting to armed force and ignoring the rule of law. Even in the revolutions it seems like a few people fighting over the fates of the teeming masses, a very different sort of attitude than you saw in the US, where everyone took a stand for what they beleived in. It seems like their leaders have just taken turns subjegating the populace for the benefit of the upper class and foreign investors.

beerslurpy
April 2, 2006, 04:20 PM
Most of the current state of Mexican gun control was put into place by leftists during the 70's.

link? I am very curious about this.

Burt Blade
April 2, 2006, 04:28 PM
Is it any wonder so many folks are trying to move from Mexico to the USA? We tell people to leave _California_ over less despicable rules and regulations!

Perhaps instead of griping about them cutting our lawns, we should be teaching them our language, helping them enrich themselves, helping them legally buy firearms, and pointing out what a nice place Mexico could be again if someone who spoke the language of the locals could just get rid of the crooks running the place.

"Reconquista" can work both ways.

beerslurpy
April 2, 2006, 04:39 PM
Burt, that is happening to some extent. The problem is that many Mexican-Americans who succeed are also smart enough to not want to go back for more than a visit.

Cosmoline
April 2, 2006, 05:07 PM
I'm not sure if he confiscated it because it was illegal in Mexico or maybe he just wanted a souvenir.

Kinda reminds me of the TSA.

Is it the catholicism? The spanish culture? The economic system of colonial mexico vs colonial US?

One of the most interesting things I noticed in the Latin-American history classes I took was the dramatically different pattern of development in Spanish colonies as opposed to British colonies. Jamaica, for example, was orders of magnitude more productive as a colony than any of the Spanish run colonies in the same area. So was Belize. Cuba, which had been little more than a massive slave camp under Spain, turned into a fast-growing capitalist dream during the US protectorate.

The Spanish colonies tended to be purely extractive in nature and the leaders had absolutely no respect for free trade or capitalist drive. The rule of law and respect for basic property rights were a joke. The local leaders were picked by the mainland for their traditionalism and compliance, leading over time to some of the most hidebound and reactionary elites on the planet. Even after Bolivar and the rash of independence movements, it's taken generations for these nations to move beyond rudimentary economic models. Even today it's essentially impossible for working class people in many Latin nations to secure something as basic as a deed to their house--at least one that means anything.

The political instability has also been a tremendous burden. If you look at the English or even French colonies in the New World, you don't see the same pattern of juntas replacing juntas. A disrespect for legal institutions runs from the top to the bottom. The leaders don't respect the constitutions or courts and traders don't respect contract law or property rights. People have learned to take what they can and horde it. There's no more certain way to guarantee economic and cultural stagnation.

Of course, the colonial background only goes so far. Some Latin nations such as Costa Rica or parts of Mexica have started to pull out of the mire, while once-wealthy nations like Jamaica or Cuba have sunk into it. But even today you can see the people in many Latin nations still looking to great "progressive" leaders in the capital to give them wealth, just as their ancestors looked to Spain.

Burt Blade
April 2, 2006, 05:25 PM
I noticed that "New Orleans" wasn't mentioned as a shining example of enlightened law-abiding colonialism. :D

TexasRifleman
April 2, 2006, 06:27 PM
"Reconquista" can work both ways.

That makes way too much sense. You must be a racist :evil:

mp510
April 2, 2006, 07:10 PM
I asked a Mexican Attorney before about the knife laws, and he did not know of any, but I guess that regardless of what's on paper, it's what the enforcers sa that goes... He also did not know of any laws prohibiting electronic defense devices, or air guns.

The reason why they have the legislation that they do down there is due fear of uprisings. Back in the day, Rex Applegate ran a gun manufacturing business in Mexico, and he was allowed to make .22 single shots, 12 bore shotguns (single shots), and Ruger .22 Autos, since those were not the weapons that were common to revolts...Like our Assault Weapon restrictions, they had a domestic manufacturing clause. To get around it, he imported the parts, made a couple in country, and stamped them hecho en mexico

Cosmoline
April 2, 2006, 09:16 PM
noticed that "New Orleans" wasn't mentioned as a shining example of enlightened law-abiding colonialism

That city's problems are rooted in long term demographic shifts in Louisiana and the south in general from coastal port cities to interior industrial centers. The flood was just the coup de grace.

Sam Adams
April 3, 2006, 03:27 PM
My wife's from Mexico (and she's 110% legal, for anyone that cares). There's a definite limit of .38 for handguns for average folks - military calibers are a huge no-no. But, if you can bribe the right people, anything goes. Her uncle is quite well-to-do, and he owns a few .45s and an AR in 5.56mm, plus a couple of full autos. This is, BTW, a Holocaust survivor, and I think his attitude is that there's no way that anyone will ever take him away in a cattle car again.

My father-in-law owned a .38 revolver that I'd like for my kids to have. He died about 3 years ago, and my M-I-L doesn't care if I take it. However, the penalties for a Gringo getting caught with such an item (even on the way out) are so immense that it just isn't worth it.

Mexico, as far a guns are concerned, is better than some places in the world, but is a craphole compared to most of the US. There's no such thing as a RKBA, not when the gov't can outlaw anything it pleases. The gov't, like all of them back to before the Spanish even arrived, is deathly afraid of a peasant revolt. Being as how our peasant revolt in the 1770's worked out pretty well, we have a different viewpoint on this matter.

cz75bdneos22
April 3, 2006, 06:00 PM
my experience,

in my 36 years of life experience w/ Latin Americans, i have never met an LA gun hobbyist...i've met people, characters w/ a ratty gun...a rifle, if hunting or a shotgun..never known or seen or heard of anyone that enjoys owning or collecting firearms. Yes, the ultimate weapon for those who have money in Mexico is the .38 Super 1911 Colt. Especially in the Northern border states. other than the Militares, who have various modern weaponry...the occasional hangun in possesion by an armed citizen legal or illegally is very used, probably neglected and of a small caliber usually .22, but can be .32 or .25 cal...it's not like in the U.S. where you can walk into any number of sporting goods/gunshops to browse and then purchase a gun...No,no,no...never will you heAR someone talk about guns, carry a gun or i wanna buy a gun. it does not happen. most contact / guns occur in the rural countryside where guns are used for hunting purposes..if you hear of a gun story in a city, it will generally have to do with a criminal commiting an armed crime. someone had an altercation w/ a gun or they were caught celebrating by shooting off guns into the air...now, criminals (drug dealers) specifically in Mexico...that's another world you talking about...Yikes!! they don't play with semi-auto firearms...they love mayhem and whatever will achieve their intended chores quicker, deadlier and intimidatingly...it's de rigeur!! Badges! Badges, We don't need no stinkin' badges!! YMMV...

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