Choose Barnes & Noble over Borders on freedom...


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Manedwolf
April 2, 2006, 04:27 PM
Text of a customer service inquiry regarding Borders. Not exactly for free speech and liberty, it seems. More for scared caving-in to fears of terrorists...exactly what we need companies NOT to do. B&N carries way more gun magazines, anyway.

I wonder if Borders will start caving to the anti crowd and remove magazines that feature "assault weapons", next. :barf:

-----------------------------------
Thank you for your expression of concern about our decision not to carry the issue of Free Inquiry magazine featuring cartoons depicting Muhammad.

Borders is committed to our customers' right to choose what to read and what to buy and to the First Amendment right of Free Inquiry to publish the cartoons. In this particular case, we decided not to stock this issue in our stores because we place a priority on the safety and security of our customers and our employees. We believe that carrying this issue presented a challenge to that priority.

We value your thoughts and sincerely appreciate that you invested your time to tell us how you feel about the issue. I can assure you that our management team gave careful deliberation to this decision and considered all sides of the issue before reaching this conclusion. As always, we are interested in customer feedback about our choices and while we know you do not agree with our position, we hope you can understand the challenge of balancing the needs of our customers, employees and our communities.

We appreciate the time you have taken to bring your concerns to our attention. If you should have any other questions or comments, please don't hesitate to contact us.

Best,

Dan
Customer Resolution Specialist

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Can'thavenuthingood
April 2, 2006, 04:38 PM
Looks like a decision made purely from a business standpoint rather than a political one.

Given our propensity for lawsuits in this country, I'm thinking I may have come to the same conclusion. I'm in it for the money, not politics. The people that make decisions to blow up or kill anyone that denigrates muhammed are unpredictable.

Why chance devastation for a few bucks profit?

Vick

Hawkmoon
April 2, 2006, 04:47 PM
Reality check:

(1) Borders is owned by Barnes & Noble

(2) Barnes & Noble corporate policy prohibits employees from carry at work, or on company premises. (Which means that the dudes and dudettes on closing shift in a scurvey area can't even have a carry pistol in their locker for self defense after they leave the store in the dead of night).

steveno
April 2, 2006, 05:02 PM
it depends on which location the Barnes and Noble is at. the one in Lincoln has most of the gun magazines. the one in Ft. Collins had "Outdoor Life" at most and the bunny huggers were objecting to that

Flyboy
April 2, 2006, 05:05 PM
Hawkmoon:
Borders is owned by Barnes & Noble
Cite? I only ask because borders.com is a redirect to Amazon, with whom Borders is partnered for online sales. Were Borders owned by BN, I'd expect them to sell through bn.com.

Car Knocker
April 2, 2006, 05:55 PM
Headquartered in Ann Arbor, MI, Borders Group, Inc., is a publicly held Fortune 500 company with annual sales of $3.9 billion. Our stock trades on the New York Stock Exchange under the symbol BGP. Borders Group operates over 470 Borders superstores in the U.S.; 54 Borders stores outside the U.S., located primarily in the U.K. and the Pacific Rim; 33 Books etc. stores throughout Great Britain; and approximately 650 Waldenbooks stores in malls across America. Borders Group acquired London-based Paperchase Products Limited, a retailer of stationery, cards and gifts with over 70 locations. Teamed with Amazon.com, the company also offers online shopping through www.borders.com and www.waldenbooks.com as well as similar sites in the U.K.

http://www.bordersgroupinc.com/about/index.html

EasternShore
April 2, 2006, 10:36 PM
My personal experience is the Border and BN tend to be more to the left politically, BAM (Books A Million) is far more conservative and thus gets my money. But that's just my experience.:D

Hawkmoon
April 2, 2006, 10:58 PM
My "cite" is a verbal from the manager of a nearby B&N when I was talking to her about a part-time job awhile ago. I didn't pursue it because of the anti-RKBA rules. I'm quite certain she told me that B&N had just purchased Borders.

Lucky
April 2, 2006, 11:01 PM
Financial consequences of people not buying your magazine because you published offensive material to consumers, imo, is exactly the appropriate response. Free markets and free speech working together quite nicely, with absolutely no need for gov't interference.

Car Knocker
April 2, 2006, 11:30 PM
March 16, 2006:

NEW YORK (AP) - Barnes & Noble Inc., the nation's largest bookseller, reported a 6.3 percent increase in its fourth-quarter net income on Thursday, and saw its stock jump nearly 10 percent. But No. 2 rival Borders Group Inc. said its income slipped 3 percent as gross margins declined.

http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/ticker/article.asp?Feed=AP&Date=20060316&ID=5581269&Symbol=US:BGP

I think the B&N manager was incorrect in her assertion. I couldn't find anything on the net to support her statement. :scrutiny:

G36-UK
April 2, 2006, 11:47 PM
Borders in Glasgow and York are about the only places I found American gun magazines, I think it was in the Hobby section. (The York one had Soldier of Fortune in the Military Section!)

Kim
April 3, 2006, 12:02 AM
I buy almost all my books from Amazon. Cheap used ones almost always available. Yea have to pay for shipping but it sure is easy to pick up my books at the door delived by UPS or US mail. ;)

Kestrel
April 3, 2006, 01:39 AM
I buy almost all my books from Amazon. Cheap used ones almost always available. Yea have to pay for shipping but it sure is easy to pick up my books at the door delived by UPS or US mail.

Unfortunately, Amazon sells your personal information.

Kim
April 3, 2006, 03:58 AM
Well so does almost everyone anymore.

roo_ster
April 3, 2006, 09:12 AM
In this particular case, we decided not to stock this issue in our stores because we place a priority on the safety and security of our customers and our employees. We believe that carrying this issue presented a challenge to that priority.
Funny, but I don't recall any major magazine sellers refraining from selling magazines during the Andres Serrano/P!ss Christ debate. Or when hte Brooklyn Museum displayed "art' with the Virgin Mary surrounded by elephant feces and pornographic cut-outs. I recall that those images were easily found in the press.

Essentially, Borders is saying, "If we stock mags with those images, we are afraid some Mohammedian splodeydope is going to blow the cr@p out of one of our stores. So we're not going to stock those mags."

I wonder if Borders stocks JFK's Profiles in Courage?

Camp David
April 3, 2006, 09:27 AM
My personal experience is the Border and BN tend to be more to the left politically...

That's an understatement! Our local Borders store has exactly two (2) books on hunting on its shelves! Two! You think that is because perhaps only two books have ever been written on hunting or perhaps some lefty political statement being enforced? I actually make it a point to ask them every time I go in about why they don't stock hunting books and they always give a mishmash answer..."no demand" or somesuch... yet walking over to the non-fiction society and culture section there is a whole shelf devoted to man-loves-boy books... their homosexual section is six shelves Wow!.... lefty influence you say! A few years back I use to buy the magazine "Fur-Fish & Game" off their shelves and they stopped carrying it... likewise "Sports Afield," "Field & Stream," "Outdoor Life" and like outdoor hunting them publications. In case you are interested that is called censorship. :mad:

exoduster18
April 3, 2006, 09:33 AM
Hawkmoon - Reality check. Borders is a subsidary owned by Borders Group Incorporated (BGI). They (BGI) runs Borders, Waldenbooks, Borders Express, and Brentanos bookstores. There are over a thousand of Borders Stores worldwide.

Also, BGI is owned by a Jewish family. They of all people should know about religious persecution.

Oh, and your all probably wondering how I know this. I work at store 0831 (Waldenbooks) at the Lycoming Mall. Stop by sometime.

Oh, and they have a zero tolerance on weapon carry. Any weapon. You face termination of employment if you are found to be in violation of the policy.

GTSteve03
April 3, 2006, 11:32 AM
Last time I bought anything from Borders was The ABC's of Reloading, 7th Ed. and 1984. I wonder what their computers made of that?

:evil:

Erebus
April 3, 2006, 01:04 PM
Bn is definately leftist. I went in there looking for Michelle Malkin'snew book and it was on the back wall and there was only one copy. I saw no more than 3 copies of any conservative writer's book. Meanwhile there was dozens of copies of Clinton's, Carter's, and many other leftists' books in the largest case and closest to the door.

At least Border's admits they are doing it cause they are scared. You don't have to worry about a Christian suicide bombing or someone shooting up your place cause you carried a magazine with a picture of Piss Christ.

In other words, while I don't agree with the decision I can accept it due to the criteria is was based on.

Can'thavenuthingood
April 3, 2006, 01:27 PM
Maybe Michele Malkins book is a faster seller and Clintons is a dust collecter?

Vick

HankB
April 3, 2006, 01:37 PM
FWIW, a couple of years ago the local B&N actually had Unintended Consequences in stock . . . that's where I bought my copy.

The local Borders doesn't even carry gun rags anymore.

Darth Ruger
April 3, 2006, 02:10 PM
B&N carries way more gun magazines, anyway.I've been in many B&N and Borders stores over the years, and I've always noticed the same thing: B&N has more gun/hunting magazines, but Borders has more gun/hunting books.


Our local Borders store has exactly two (2) books on hunting on its shelves!Every Borders I've been in has way more gun/hunting books than any B&N. Usually at least three shelves full, sometimes more.

My usual line of thought is that if I want to browse more gun hunting magazines, I go to B&N. If I want to browse more gun/hunting books, I go to Borders.

These varied experiences among people in different regions make me wonder if the individual store managers have a lot of say in what they put on the shelves, because it's clearly not the same at every store.

DRZinn
April 3, 2006, 02:33 PM
Has anyone considered what kind of area they live in? Maybe bookstores in ceratin areas carry more or less of a certain kind of book or magazine because they sell more or less of them. Maybe capitalism works, after all.:cool:

I'm not claiming there is no bias, or that there are no people stupid enough to throw profit to the wind just to avoid gun mags, but trust in the free market, people.

GhostRider66
April 3, 2006, 03:11 PM
(1) Borders is owned by Barnes & Noble

Definitely not true. My wife works for Borders here locally and they are in direct competition with B&N which opened up a new store about a block away. In any case, the carrying or not carrying of gun magazines would seem to be mostly a regional decision (whether or not it's based on sales or politics is another question) because here both stores carry a very wide selection of both books and magazines. My wife is also very, very good about 'fronting' these books much to the consternation of many. Of course, she also makes sure that the political selections are also very well balanced. She often allows me to make recommendations for various types of displays. If there's anything that anyone feel is under-represented (in her store at least), let me know and I'll see to it. She also does quite a bit of the hands on selling when people come in asking for things leaning the 'wrong' way on things, she can gently guide them to some real informed literature.:evil:

exoduster18
April 3, 2006, 03:18 PM
We have a policy hung up at the Waldenbooks store the I work at about caring the products that we do. As soon as I get a copy I'll post it here.

I take care of the Political/Social Science section of the store I work at. I make sure that the liberal authors get just as much face as the the conservative do.....sometimes I even make sure that the conservative authors spend more time on display, faced out:D I'm a conservative and I hate being blasted by the likes of Hillary Clinton (and her husband Bill) or Jimmy Carter. So I take care to give all their equal face time while keeping with the planograms that the company gives us to use.

So....I'll get that policy posted here soon.

And like I said before...stop by and visit. Look for the kid that has sort of long, black hair, glasses, has a Gerber multitool on the right and a Surefre G2 on the left.

TTYL.

Slinger
April 3, 2006, 05:45 PM
The Borders that I go to has loads of gun magazines. It has at least a dozen handgun mags as well as various rifle, SWAT, MilSurp, concealled carry, and yes:eek: even evil black rifle types of magazines.

Some of us Hoosiers can even read to ourselves without moving our lips!;)

JesseJames
April 3, 2006, 06:08 PM
The literati and bookworm set have always been leftist.
Just no way around it.
I was hinted that I had serious talent as a writer when I did my college writing and English literature courses. But I didn't give a hoot for writing because I thought it was an effete pursuit.
There is just no way I'd get on with those people in the literature world which is an extension of the art world. Which is of course predominantly socialistic leftists.
I wonder how the bookstores in Texas are. Could the shelves be gloriously stocked with books on firearms and gun magazines?
The bookstores around here are pretty good about stocking everything. In fact, I just spent some time at the bookstore today reading Outdoor Life and some comments about the overlooked .280 round. :D

3fgburner
April 3, 2006, 06:21 PM
"Has anyone considered what kind of area they live in? Maybe bookstores in ceratin areas carry more or less of a certain kind of book or magazine because they sell more or less of them. Maybe capitalism works, after all."

The Fairfax (VA) Borders stocks a lot of gun rags. They've also got a fair amount of shooting stuff in the sports-n-hobbies section. So does the Manassas section.

Still, this did piss me off badly enough that I posted a rant (http://3fgburner.livejournal.com/5891.html)on my blog. Warning- it's long... Anyway, I figured it was about time for me to join the ranks of the fatwah-bait.

Carl N. Brown
April 19, 2006, 01:00 PM
After watching the latest episode of South Park,
I have become convinced that any true believer in
freedom of speech MUST publish pitchers of Muhammad
in defiance of jihadist terrorism!



























http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=38655&stc=1&d=1145462159

Reality check: does offending millions of non-terrorist
non-jihadist Islamics by disrespecting their religious icons
really thwart any plans by the jihadist terrorists? Or is
disrespecting the Moslem religion "playing into the hands" of
the extremists, giving them what they want to use against us,
namely convincing non-jihadists non-terrorists that there is
no neutral ground, just All of Us Versus All of Them??

Manedwolf
April 19, 2006, 01:23 PM
The literati and bookworm set have always been leftist.
Just no way around it.

Yeah. All dem gun peeple ar reel dum an' caynt rite. :rolleyes:

PLEASE don't generalize like that. Especially when it's absolutely not true.
*has a literature degree, is libertarian and shoots quite well, thank you*

There is just no way I'd get on with those people in the literature world which is an extension of the art world. Which is of course predominantly socialistic leftists.

Then you have little understanding of the art world. VERY little understanding.
If you think that being more conservative means eschewing higher knowledge, writing and the arts, then you're damning the type to illiterate trailer-park status, and that's not the case.

For example...how well-read and eloquent would you say, oh, THOMAS JEFFERSON was? Would you call him a socialistic leftist? :rolleyes:

Frandy
April 19, 2006, 04:03 PM
Hey Jesse,

But I didn't give a hoot for writing because I thought it was an effete pursuit.

That comment says more about you than about the pursuit of writing.

Read much? Your stereotyping and generalizing are really quite off the mark.
Ever hear of Tim McLaurin (Keeper of the Moon and other great stories)? From a piece about him after he died of cancer at 48:

An ex-Marine...and a one-time proprietor of a traveling snake show who became an assistant professor at North Carolina State University and a bona fide man of letters.... He despised the liberal elite of Chapel Hill, but when he remarried two years ago, more than two dozen Southern authors — all his close friends — bore witness. It probably isn’t true, but somebody said afterward that it was the largest gathering of Southern writers since Faulkner’s funeral.

mtnbkr
April 19, 2006, 04:46 PM
But I didn't give a hoot for writing because I thought it was an effete pursuit.
It's a shame Mike Irwin's no longer a member here. He'd probably have something to say about that statement. :D

Hint: He's a writer and not quite an effete leftist...

Chris

aquapong
April 19, 2006, 07:23 PM
Just to further condemn Borders...I saw on a website several years ago that they give money to anti groups. I wish I knew the website, but unfortunately I don't. I haven't shopped there since and I was happy to have some B+N around me.

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