[PJR]

The latest fad at our shooting club is subgauge. Where we once only stocked 12 in the clubhouse (at a tidy profit to the club incidentally) we now carry 20 and 28. The 28 gauge is currently the darling of sporting and recreational skeet shooters and is increasingly showing up on the game fields.

I fell victim to this temptation and bought a very light 20 gauge o/u and a set of the Seminole Chambermates that permit me to shoot 28 gauge in my 12 gauge guns. Having taken the plunge I'm now having second thoughts on the wisdom of smaller gauges.

The 20 gauge was bought when my wife started to show some interest in shooting. When she decided she preferred her horses I started shooting the gun. It is definitely light and with a standard target load kicks every bit as much as the 12s. Because it is light it is hard to keep swinging and I don't hit the targets as often or as well. I've used the gun for hunting but it is in a target configuration (hi viz sights, shiny receiver, ported) and while it gets the job done I much prefer my 12 gauge game gun.

The 28 gauge Chambermates were bought on a whim and while they do work, at least on skeet targets, spending a couple of hundred dollars to shoot ammo that is twice as expensive in a gun that weighs over 8 pounds doesn't make much sense. Sure the recoil was lower but not appreciably lower than if I'd loaded some light 7/8 ounce 12 gauge loads.

In addition to the high price of the shells, the 28 gauge most often is available in guns that are the same frame size as the 20 gauge. Frames scaled to the 28 gauge are not common and quite expensive (Ruger is the exception).

Within certain circles, small gauges are becoming the sign of a "sportsman" among North American bird hunters. I know one fellow who prides himself on knocking down pheasants with a 28 gauge. He uses 1 ounce game loads and looks down his nose somewhat when I uncase my 12 (also loaded with one ounce game loads). When the shot payload is the same it's hard to see how one is more sporting than the other, nevertheless it is now considered a mark of distinction or superior shooting ability to hunt game with a small gauge.

Having wandered down the path albeit briefly, I'm coming to the conclusion that if I want less recoil I can reload and the weight savings offered by subgauges is often offset by, at least in my case, an inability to shoot them well. Besides my 12 gauge game gun is 6.5lbs and isn't an undue burden.

I'm sticking with my 12s and investing in fewer but better shotguns.

Thoughts? Flames? Anything to add?

Paul

[Dave McCracken]

Agreed here, Paul. The subguages are fun, but not as effective. Really light shotguns are hard to hit with. And why bother with a heavy gun shooting less effective, more costly ammo?

I suspect the fad factor is what makes the little 28s so popular right now. I just hope all those who are using them on live birds own great dogs.

I've seen the analogy of a subguage being the equivalent of a 3 wt fly rod, or ultralight spinning tackle. It's not...

Bust light line or a 6X tippet on a bruiser rainbow or brown, the fish has a sore jaw for a coupla days and then recovers. Stick the fringe of a scant pattern into a bird, it won't get well, and will suffer until it dies,possibly days later. I'd rather avoid that kind of Karma.

A shotgunner with a 12 gauge and a reloading setup can load for a variety of missions. Make that 2 12s, one a nice light uplander and the other a heavy, ponderous waterfowler, and the gamut's covered.

[John G]

What, no .16 gauge? My first gun was a single-shot Savage .16ga, my Grandpa called it the "meat gun." It brought home lots of meals. His Browning Sweet Sixteen is the coolest gun I've ever held, a real beauty.

[HSMITH]

I have not invested in a 28 or a 410 yet, but I dearly want them. When I was shooting skeet competitively I borrowed guns or did not shoot all 4. Most of the time I shot a Citori with Kolar full length tubes AND interchangeable chokes in 28 and 410. It worked reeeeaaaaalllllllyyy well, thanks Kenny!!

The 20 gauge on the target field is the equal of the 12, plain and simple. When was the last time you had a target presentation over 45-50 yards? With lead shot when hunting it is not far behind the 12, maybe 20 yards of effective range before patterns get too thin, and if we face facts most guys can't hit anything at the limits of the 20ga range let alone even approach the 12ga range. If you did not guess already I have a 20 gauge that I shoot EXTREMELY well. My clay target scores for skeet, trap, and sporting are the same with the 12 and the 20.

The 28 IS a capable bird gun, over pointing dogs with #6 shot at 1200 FPS only a fool would question its' ability to stop birds GYD. Range would need to be limited, 30-35 yards would be a long shot with a full choke but load development could get a SOLID 35 yards out of a 28 without a lot of trouble. Shoot well, know your range, and I cannot find a problem with the 28 gauge on even pheasants.

Shooting subgauges is part of the progression of shotgunning in my mind. Trapshooters are the exception to this, for some reason someone told them that less than one ounce simply would not work past 30 yards, they wrote it in stone and have been happy since. Fit is a big part of shooting subgauges, experience is another. One of the true key fundamentals of shotgunning is not stopping your swing, so don't blame the lightness of the gun:neener: Nobody has done so yet, but we might as well get that right out front. When you can do whatever you do in shotgunning with regularity and are starting to get bored you use LESS shot to do it. I don't care if you shoot your 12 or your 28, the 3/4 ounce load is harder to hit the targets with because to maintain pattern density the pattern must get smaller. Smaller patterns mean you must be closer to the perfect point to hit, it requires more skill and it CHALLENGES those who are not finding the challenge they crave. Get up around a 99 average in skeet and the fun is waning quickly, same for sporting clays. Guys like the challenge and that is what brings them back. Subgauges are the vehicle for that.

I have loaded some seriously reduced loads, like 1/2 ounce in 12 gauge hulls. Fun? Yeah. Worth it? No way! It is a real PITA. 3/4 ounce is about as low as you can go in a 12 with any practicality at all. With a 20 you can load anything down to 1/2 ounce pretty easily. I have a 5/8 oz load that functions my autoloading 20 gauge even.

This is getting long......

Let us realize the benefit that the subgauges can provide, and give them due respect. Hammer the guys that can't shoot well enough to be toting them if you want, but it certainly is not the gun.

[Dave McCracken]

John, the 16 works very well with an oz of shot. That moves it closer to the 12 than the 20. I too, started on a 16 gauge single, and it "Reduced to Possession" lots of food.

H,I have seen amazing things done with a 28 gauge.The owner-operator was very,very good.And his shots fell well within 35 yards. He had good dogs, but didn't need them to run down cripples.
However, he stated that he shot that little jewel best whe it was all he shot. Moving to a 12 gauge meant a lot of readjusting. He didn't mind doing that.

Agreed about most shotgunners not able to hit at the limits of a 20, but using a 12 gives a bit of a fudge factor.

If I t'were using a 28 and flush with funds, I think I'd work up a nice load of 3/4 oz of HARD 7 1/2s or 8s, have a decent smith do the cone and a mild overbore, and then play with the choke some. Once I had a great set of patterns at a given distance, I'd school myself to stay within that distance and have lots of fun.

[PJR]

HSMITH:

You raise some interesting points. We agree on the fundamental need to keep swinging the gun. For me, however, it's easier with a gun that has a little more heft. We also agree that smaller shot charges are not that severe a handicap. International target loads are only 24 grams and they are proving themselves on targets a lot tougher than you will find on domestic sporting courses. I have a pet load that approaches the International target ballistics that is excellent on the clays courses.

Where I'm coming from on this is the propensity of shooters to buy something shiny and new (to the delight of the gun companies and ammo companies) when they would probably better off staying with one or two guns for all of their activities and adjusting their loads according to the task. At one point I was shooting 5 different guns for various target and upland activities and now am down to only two -- a target o/u and a sxs for game, both better quality guns and properly fitted. My scores have responded positively.

If I'm in need of a challenge or to break the boredom I'll take out the pump gun and shoot sporting. Great fun.

Dave/John G:

The first gun I fired was a 16 gauge and it was 30 years before I fired another one. Within certain segments of the upland crowd the 16 carries with it almost mystical properties. I have a foot partially in the 16 gauge camp because my game gun, even though it is a 12 gauge, was built on a 16 gauge frame and is a delight.

Paul

[TrapperReady]

I've thought about getting either some sub-gauge tubes, or a dedicated 28ga, but haven't done so yet.

As has been stated previously, I think you can get down to 20ga real easily without losing too much (if anything) to a 12ga. I mostly do upland hunting, and have switched over to a 20ga. It's lighter to carry and works just as well on the birds. Most of the really long shots (45+ yards), I pass up anyway, regardless of the gauge I'm using.

I've shot a 20ga extensively at 5-stand and clays, and find that my scores are usually within 1 or 2 of the larger gauge.

As far as the 28ga goes, I frequently shoot clays with folks who aren't quite shooting as well, and it would be nice to shoot easier courses, but use a smaller gauge.

I'll reserve judgement on using a 28ga on birds until I've tried one for a while on clays. I would want to know its limitations and capabilities (as well as mine) before using it to collect food.

I tend to think that the key, no matter what gun you are using, is knowing how you shoot and when to pass up a shot. I've hunted with people who have routinely crippled birds with 1 1/4 oz from a 12ga, and I've hunted with people who regularly kill birds cleanly with a lot less shot from a 28ga.

It's one of the reasons why I still use a full-choked 12ga on occasion. If I'm hunting with someone I don't know VERY well, then I will plan to "bat cleanup", and make sure that I'm outfitted to hit at longer ranges than I normally would.

[Dave McCracken]

You might see a discrepancy in my statements on the 28 and my frequently advocacy of light loads.

There's none. Using enough load(rather than the biggest) is easier on us and the shotgun.

Paul, you may recall me mentioning the little French/Belgian SXS I had for a while. At 6 lbs, 5 oz, the heaviest load that thing saw was a trap load, the AA 1 1/8 oz one, and it saw lots of 1 oz loads. IOW, I loaded it like a 16, and it was plenty for the shots I took. Had I kept it, I'd be loading 7/8 oz oz of 8.5s for 5 stand and SC, and having a blast.

The probs with the 18 have less to do with the smaller shot charge and more to do with the wisplike mass and dimensions. And most modern ones could use a longer barrel or barrels.A little more weight for that inertia thing.

TR, one can wound or miss with any shotgun. The smaller shot cloud of the 28 means precise centering for effectiveness is harder to do.

Don't get me wrong, if I had a 28 gauge I'd be having much fun with it, at the shotgun activities 28s are no handicap at. But, I doubt I'd shoot nearly as well as with my tried and true 12s.

[Omaha-BeenGlockin]

Hhhhmmm---all 4 of my shotguns were purchased with specific purposes in mind----3 are 12's---the other is a 20. Not counting Grandpa's 16ga SxS--which is a family gun---which stays in the safe.

1. Benelli Nova camo 24" barrel -3.5in chamber-------I use this for waterfowl and turkey---where I can throw as much shot at 'em as possible with that 3.5" chamber.

2. Beretta 391 12ga 26" barrel---this is my clays gun and late season pheasant gun---when all the corn is cut and the shots are long-----too pretty to be dragging through the muck.

3. Beretta 3901 20ga 24" barrel----for doves--infrequent squirrel blasting in the woods---early season pheasants when hardly anything is cut----an ugly gun for ugly jobs.

4. Remington 870 Marine Magnum 12ga 18.5" barrel----home defender----if someone is in the house, I want to throw a large payload at them and have many repeat shots on hand.

Guess what I'm trying to show is most of my shotgun uses need a 12ga and not much anything smaller.

[Detritus]

over the past 10 years, i have had a large number of shotgunner much more enamored of shooting them (SGs that is), repeat the following....

"patternwise a 16ga is a 12 without an extra 1/8oz trailing behind"

i know nothing of any truth behind this, truly don't care. even though i DO own a fairly lovely 16ga SxS.

my interest in 16s begins and ends with "what is the lightest load i can buy, and where can i get it" the gun is a 1935 Lefever A grade, that was one of three (12,16,20) my grandfather bought new. my father being the youngest of three brothers got the gun that was least used and for which ammo was the least available(at least those loadings that were NOT loaded to otherwise 12ga specs).