.22 rimfire Black Death Challenge


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Darth Ruger
April 3, 2006, 02:52 PM
Some people have expressed interest in this, so I thought I'd make a new thread with it to make it easier to find. An expensive competition-winning target rifle can be used if desired, but this challenge was primarily designed for your average .22LR squirrel rifle (a heavy-barrelled squirrel rifle is fine, such as the Marlin 880/980). All action types are allowed (bolt action, semi-auto, lever action, pump, single-shot, etc). To quote from the link below... "The target was developed to improve the shooting skills of the typical squirrel hunter using their everyday squirrel rifle." So anyone with a .22 can take part in training to become a 'squirrel sniper', which will also translate into better shooting skills with your centerfire rifles.

.22 rimfire Black Death Challenge (http://10xshooters.com/BlackDeathChallenge/)
(BDC targets located at bottom of page.)

"...the real test of marksmanship, the infamous Black Death Challenge target. It is there for one reason, To Destroy You! There are 5 targets on the sheet in decreasing sizes from 1 inch, 1 inch, inch, 5/8 inch, and inch. You have the option to fire your shots at the larger targets and play it safe for less points or get crazy and go for a win, attempting to put 5 bullets in a half inch White circle without cutting the Black sides. Only three people in the world have done it at 25 yards and only one at 50 yards. We expect others but it ain’t likely. You must be absolutely dead center or DIE. You can lose all 50 points if you attempt a perfect score and are slightly off. “Do You Feel Lucky?” It is indeed the ultimate pressure match. But those who shoot Black Death and like it prefer nothing else. No one can really show you how to shoot the Black Death target, as strategy must be employed, therefore it is a match for the thinker. Bob Baldwin needed points on his last championship match, he put 4 shots on the 10 point circle, as the coach I advised him to shoot the next largest target for a clean 47 points which he did and won TOP GUN. Sometimes it is wise to play it safe...Each competitor may choose to observe, or ignore (at his option) Clint Eastwood’s Rule #1 of Self-Knowledge... as spoken by Dirty Harry, "You've got to know your limitations."
~ John Simeone, creator of the Black Death Challenge

The original Black Death target (http://www.huntingcentral.net/topgun/black_death.jpg)

John Simeone's rules

1. Only 5 shots anywhere on the 'score' target... Unlimited shots on the 'sighting in' target.

2. This target will be used for benchrest 25 yard "Squirrel Rifle" Class, .22 rifles,... 50 yard "BR-50" Class .22 rifles,...and Centerfire "Varmint" Class rifles at 100 yards.

3. You have fifteen minutes to fire your sighters and to fire your record fire. (For TOP GUN Challenge 2001 you only have 15 minutes to Zero, shoot the Bull’s Eye and the Black Death Target)

4. Any shot judged to touch anywhere on the Black area of a target, voids all shots on that target (other targets on the paper are unaffected). (All shots must be in the white and not even touching the surrounding black.)

DETAILS

The 5 scoring shots can be fired one at each target, or all 5 at one target, or any desired combination...But only 5 shots total on the 'score' target.

Shooter will lose his highest scoring shot for each extra shot found on his scoring target.

Each of five targets is marked with the value of each hit in the white area.

Center rings in each target are tie breaking "X" scores. In the case of "X" ties, the best "X" wins.

Maximum score is 50-5X, minimum score is 0-OX.

Target sizes are: 1 1/2 inches, 1 inch, 3/4 inch, 5/8 inch, and 1/2 inch.

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Sergeant Sabre
April 3, 2006, 03:11 PM
So you're telling me that only three people in the whole world have ever fired a sub 1/2" group at 25 yards with a .22 rimfire from the bench?????

I see the information printed on the target classifies any shooter with 1 to 10 points as "expert". So, from the bench, at 25 yards, if I put a single round anywhere inside of any of the targets, I'm an expert?

I'm sorry, but I'm less than impressed.

dfaugh
April 3, 2006, 04:13 PM
At 25 yards, I would have difficulty NOT scoring 50...Gonna try it at 50 yards, and suspect I can do it 2 out of 3 times.

With an out-of-the-box Marlin 60, Tasco 3-9x scope and Wolf Match target ammo.

Yes, this is a challenge to all you 10/22 shooters (out-of-box onlY) shooters:evil:

P.S. My buddy with a Winchester 52 and 24x scope (total cost $2500) hasn't beat me yet. Although he's come close.

Darth Ruger
April 3, 2006, 04:48 PM
So you're telling me that only three people in the whole world have ever fired a sub 1/2" group at 25 yards with a .22 rimfire from the bench?????
Wait a minute, let me think....

No, I never said that. First, this challenge was posted a few years ago. John Simeone said in 2002, if I recall correctly, that only three people had done it at that time with everyday squirrel rifles. I quoted his words just to give his introduction to the challenge. It's not a day-to-day update of any others who have maxed it since.

Second, he didn't say that only three people have ever fired a sub-1/2" group. He said only three people had officially maxed his Black Death target.

I see the information printed on the target classifies any shooter with 1 to 10 points as "expert". So, from the bench, at 25 yards, if I put a single round anywhere inside of any of the targets, I'm an expert?As far as the word 'expert' goes, it's just a title for reaching a certain score in this competition. It's not meant to imply that a person who does it is qualified to become a Marine sniper or take first place at Camp Perry. It's just a challenge, a game to have fun shooting and improve your skills at the same time, so each level is given a name. If you don't like the word 'expert', then replace it with a word that suits you better, like 'uptight', or 'cynic'.

If the 25 yard challenge is too easy for you, then move it back to 50 yards and try again. You'll find it more difficult. I posted it here because I thought some people would enjoy the challenge and like to try their hand at it. If you've declared the challenge too easy without ever firing a shot because you know you can even max the target at the more difficult distance of 50 yards without even trying it, then hooray for you. No one is forcing you to do it. It's just here for those that want to have fun trying something new.

I'm sorry, but I'm less than impressed.You also need to switch to decaf.

22-rimfire
April 3, 2006, 04:56 PM
On the surface, it seems easy. But you are doing more than shooting groups. I'm going to have to try this out. IF you don't have any witnesses, guess it doesn't count or does it have to be during some sort of organized match? You really have to be almost dead center on the 1/2" target so the holes don't rip out the black. Reminds me of shooting out the star at 6 Flags arcade gallery with the air powered auto bb guns. Pretty tough with open sights! I did it three times one day and then could never repeat the preformance again.

Darth Ruger
April 3, 2006, 05:49 PM
IF you don't have any witnesses, guess it doesn't count or does it have to be during some sort of organized match?I first heard about the BDC a few years ago when I was an active member of the old MarlinTalk forum, which no longer exists (Marlin scrapped it out of liability concerns). John Simeone was a member there, it was a pretty frequent topic of discussion. He was the coach of Team Top Gun at Ft. Polk, and he regularly hosted competitions of various types. To get on the official Black Death record list, it had to be witnessed by a designated person. He had some sort of requirements for designating a witness for those in other parts of the country that wanted to try to make the record book, I think maybe an R.O. or shooting instructor could get in touch with him and be put on the list of BDC supervisors, or something like that. I don't remember how he handled that now.

I haven't heard from him since the old Marlin forum was shut down a few years ago, so I don't know if he's still running Team Top Gun or doing competitions or whatever. The need for a designated witness to get in the record book was for obvious reasons. But you can still use it as a personal challenge to see if you can do it, or to improve your shooting skills, or just for fun.

I don't know if his email address is still the same, but you can try it here:
Shooting the Top Gun rifle match (http://www.huntingcentral.net/topgun/riflematch.htm)


One thing I recall about all the discussions back then... He said he heard from people who said they could max it easily with an everyday squirrel rifle, even at 50 yards, but then when they tried it, they were singing a different tune.

And no, I've never maxed it. As infrequently as I'm able to make time to go to the range, I'm lucky if I can get five consecutive shots on the paper. :( :D

akodo
April 3, 2006, 09:02 PM
According to "firstshot," a promoter and devotee of the BDT on the Rimfire Forum of the Marlin Talk discussion board, more BDT's have been maxed with a Ruger 10/22 and a CZ 452 than any other type

the above statement is from the first link. BDT being maxed = 50 point best score. The context of that sentence indicates that many many BDT's have been maxed.

the other quote appears no where on the page. It may well have been true for a few weeks after the first match, and then removed.

Not saying that this is an easy task, it is beyond my skill, but the whole 3 people at 25 and 1 at 50 doesn't hold any water

Darth Ruger
April 3, 2006, 09:46 PM
the other quote appears no where on the page. That's because he didn't write that page. It was written later by someone else. I added that quote just as his own intro to it, since I figured most people aren't familiar with it. That's also why I included the other link, as it is John's own information, which is where you'll find the quote. I'll post it again so there's no confusion:
Shooting the Top Gun rifle match (http://www.huntingcentral.net/topgun/riflematch.htm)

The context of that sentence indicates that many many BDT's have been maxed....but the whole 3 people at 25 and 1 at 50 doesn't hold any water
I'll spell this out one more time as clear as I can. This information was posted a few years ago, when it was fairly new, and of course, new to the internet. Accordingly, when he wrote that (as I said before), that was the situation
AT THAT TIME!


As I said...It's not a day-to-day update of any others who have maxed it since.I've explained this no less than three times now. I can't make it any clearer than this. I don't know how many people have maxed it since then. Maybe ten, maybe ten thousand. I don't know, and I don't care. The point is, it's there if you want to have fun trying it. If not, fine. If you have an issue with whatever claims were made early in it's history, then why don't you contact him and challenge him on it? Makes no difference to me. I just thought some people might like to give it a shot, but I can see posting it here was a waste of time in the first place. You guys are making the early history of this thing more complicated than the target itself.

AndyC
April 3, 2006, 10:02 PM
Well, for my part, I really appreciate you posting the targets and the story behind it, Darth - I'm going to print them out and drag my brother-in-law and his 22 to the range - thanks :D

Edit: For the whiners out there - if you're so good, shoot the blasted thing; then you can come back here and post your targets and say "I told you so". As for me, I'm going to shoot it and have fun with the challenge, even if I miss most of them.

Furncliff
April 3, 2006, 10:42 PM
Darth, I've copied the targets and the rules. I'm sure my family will have fun with this. Thanks for posting.

Tom

Darth Ruger
April 3, 2006, 11:03 PM
Make sure the settings on your printer are correct. Once I printed a copy that appeared okay at first glance, but turned out to be a little too large. You might want to measure a printed copy to make sure it's correct.

Kelly
April 4, 2006, 02:04 AM
As John Simeone's #2 rule states:
2. This target will be used for benchrest 25 yard "Squirrel Rifle" Class, .22 rifles,... 50 yard "BR-50" Class .22 rifles,...and cnterfire "Varmint" class
rifles at 100 yards.

Every true marksman knows that to truly showoff one's shooting skill is not at the bench but in the hands, such as in the various sihlouette, highpower, and Palma style events. Yes!, benchrest has it's place, and it definitely has it's place here, but the shooter who can do this without the aid of a bench, ahhh... now that is a showing of skill! The older I become, the less I am impressed with expensive equipment on a bench and the more I am impressed with a person with a squirrel gun who knows how to use it. In my family, we have two Marlin 60's, one Savage 64VF, and one Ruger 10/22T. The son with his Marlin can match me with my Ruger, and the wife has trouble keeping up with us on the bench, but the daughter with her Savage can out do all of us, and she hardly practices.

I think the game is a great idea for competition and a good showing of equipment on the bench or skill in the hands. Of course, I will be shooting the target with the gun in my hands and, although I may have to bring the target a bit closer in, I will be judged by the skill of the Indian rather than the quality of the arrow.

Darth, keep the new and innovative ideas coming in.

rockstar.esq
April 4, 2006, 02:48 AM
Darth I like your reply so much I think I'll quote you in my signiture line.
"If you don't like the word 'expert', then replace it with a word that suits you better, like 'uptight', or 'cynic'."

That totally cracks me up!!!

Thanks for the post and thanks even more for 'splainen it to us hayseeds.

chickenfried
April 4, 2006, 02:50 AM
I always get greedy and mess up my score, I have no will power :mad: Very fun target.

PATH
April 4, 2006, 03:37 AM
Just what I need. Yet another reason to go to the range. Looks pretty tough but I shall give it a try.

Schleprok62
April 4, 2006, 08:13 AM
This should be a fun execise... Thanks Darth...

azflyman
April 5, 2006, 02:45 AM
Looks bitchin', I will give it a try this weekend. I think it will be much more challenging that it sounds. I will have to reset my scope for 25 yards although I may try it @ 50 just for fun. Thanks Darth for the fun exercise!

az

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