What is best way to get educated about reloading?

[axeman_g]

Any definitive book or guide ... get with an expert... whats you alls adivec on the bst way to learn. Leed load all or go all out and get a Progresive press .... what else do I need.

I just joined a GREAT Skeet club and expect to shoot 100 to 200 rds a week. Any advice?

[TrapperReady]

I don't know about the best way, but here's how I happened into it...

The guy responsible for getting me started with shotguns was also big into reloading. Most of his work was done on a MEC 9000H, although he also had a few others (all MEC).

He had suggested that I buy a few cases of Remington STS ammo and save the hulls -- which I did. He then invited me over to learn how to reload. I watched him load a couple hundred on the 9000H, while he explained the process and showed me what could go wrong and how to fix the problems.

Then it was my turn. I ended up loading a few hundred and dealt with several screw ups. By the end, I at least had the beginnings of a clue.

His next step was to offer me a used but very functional 9000G for a good price. He also gave me info on a good recipe and told me where to get components. I started like that, and then began accumulating data and experimenting (always using published recipes) on my own.

I probably learned the most by reading and re-reading the MEC 9000 manual, as it gave me a good understanding of how the machine works. I've also picked up a few of the shotshell manuals from Ballistic Products. The Hodgdon website is a wealth of information and reloading data.

Frankly, if you can find a mentor, then I think that's a great way to go. I also wouldn't mess with anything other than a progressive unless I was only planning on shooting a couple hundred shells per month (and even then it would probably drive me crazy).

As Dave McC. has stated many a time... "Reloading doesn't save you money. It allows you to shoot more for the same money."

[Steve C]

The book the "ABC's of Relaoding" can be found in most public libararies or for purchase at bookstores or sporting good stores. With the internet there are several sites that discuss the basics of reloading. Just do a search. I personally started by reading as much as I could find on the subject and buying very basic equipment that my budget could afford at the time. Learned much more later on during discussions with other reloaders at the gun club I joined. Shotgun loading is a cookbook operation, no load development, just follow the manuals. Rifle and pistol cartridges is more involved in load development. I still use today the same 12ga 1-1/8 oz trap load I loaded 28 years ago. It works as well now as it did then for trap as well as quail and dove.

[Lennyjoe]

I picked up a used Lee Load All from a gun shop for $10 and started rolling my own. Read the ABC's of reloading before I got started and haven't looked back.

Currently using HS-6 and 7 1/2 shot for dove/quail loads.

[BozemanMT]

The wife and I just did this last summer (completely hooked on shotgunning) so got into reloading
we got the big red book "complete guide to shotshell reloading"
that helped a lot
We then did research and bought the MEC9000 and all the goodies
we then figured it out
the first 50 take forever and you go slow
after that you really crank.
We decided what hulls we were going to use (for us AA's and STS's) and found two receipes that we liked that didn't require much change (only change is actually the hull and the primer) and went to town.
now, it's 2nd nature. We've probably made 15,000 shells since july.
Sometims you just have to take the leap and just figure it out.
Get a progressive, you'll instantly outgrow the single stage esp for high volume clays shooting.
Hulls can be got pretty cheap at ranges and even on ebay (really).
the Hodgdon site and book are helpful also
a mentor would help, but it's not really that hard.

HTH

[SShooterZ]

My first question would be, why do you plan on reloading?

My second question would be, what gauges do you shoot?

The reason I ask is, if you're trying to save money and you're loading 12 gauge, you may want to just focus on buying some cheap (promo) shells and be done with it. The cost of lead is going up, the cost of primers is going up and the wads are holding fairly steady. Also, if you plan on adding the cost of hulls to that such as buying them from Ebay, you're probably looking at close to $3.00/box. When promo shells, bought in flats and in quantity can be had for about $3.30 - $3.75/box, how much are you really saving? Also, what is your time worth? Add in that the cost of a reloader and you'll have to reload close to 600 boxes worth just to break even over buying cheap shells.

Now, if you're one of those shooters who likes to tinker, and looks at reloading as a relaxation treament, well then, WELCOME ABOARD!! :D

The great thing about reloading is that you can experiment with different recipes and components until you find one that works for you and your gun. Then, you can duplicate that load over and over and over again and know exactly the performance you're getting and the results you're looking for.

There is a Reloading Forum on Shotgunworld.com (http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewforum.php?f=13) that I find extremely helpful.

As mentioned prior, go with a progressive reloader off the bat. They're a little more complicated to figure out but once you do, you'll be hauling. Personally, I would look at a Mec Grabber 8567. I have a 9000G and I love it but for starting out, I think the Grabber is MUCH more forgiving to correcting mistakes and is a bit safer for a new reloader. Another key is to buy in BULK. 8lb jugs of powder instead of 1lb or 4lb jugs, 5000 primers instead of 1000 and 5000 wads instead of 500. If you buy from a reloading operation like Recobs Target Shop (http://www.recobstargetshop.com/) or Connies Components (http://www.conniescomponents.com/) you'll find some great prices and common components to choose from.

I would Highly recommend the Lyman 4th Edition Shotshell Manual
http://www.lockstock.com/images/L9827460.jpg

That along with the MEC manual should provide you will ALL the information you will need. Make sure you have a good scale also, NEVER, EVER trust the bushing recommendations. Always weigh your shot and powder drops for each reloading session.

My last piece of advice would be to mount your reloader to a bench or desk, and mount it through a cheapo pizza tin that has a lip around the outside. You will spill powder and or shot at one point and the pizza tin is great at catching those mistakes before they spill all over your floor and/or carpeting.

Good Luck and welcome to a new addiction. :evil:

[Scoupe]

All good suggestions. I started with an old version of Shotshell Reloading and the manual that came with my MEC 9000GN.

One thing I'd like to point out regarding the rising prices of components is this: If lead and primer costs are rising, they are rising for everyone, including ammo maunfacturers. We will see that reflected in rising factory load rprices as well. It won't just affect the reloading community.

[ArmedBear]

Promo shells are usually 7.5 or 8 shot. If you want 9 for skeet, you're SOL. 8 should do, however, for a start.

HOWEVER...

If you buy the good stuff (STS or AA at Wal-Mart) and sell your once-fired hulls to recoup some of the cost, you can come close to reloading prices without the hassle, given that the components to do really good reloads aren't the cheapest, either.

I'm not sure that reloading really makes financial sense until you shoot more than what you're talking about. On the other hand, if you enjoy the process, hey, you might save few bucks in the long term, especially if you like to shoot the good stuff.

[BozemanMT]

I dunno
We did the costs, the first batch costs about $3.00 a box (of course, I can build wimpy 1oz loads)
But the 2nd time I reload, it's closer to $2 a box
and I get 3 to 5 reloads per AA and who knows about the STS's, they don't even look worn.
That's going to bring the average down quite a bit.
Plus, reloads are way cleaner and way more consistent than cheapie estates and federals (and I've shot tons of those). And as someone said, you can build #9's for skeet (which are totally awesome, total dust machines)
once you go with the reloads, you won't go back and the machine will pay for itself very quickly.
The idea about the cookie sheet is an excellent one, you WILL drop shot everywhere.

[SShooterZ]

Bozeman, how much do you pay for components?

Personally, mine looks like this:

25 lbs of #8 shot @ $20 (STS Magnum)

5000 Primers @ $90 (Fiocchi 616)

8 lbs of powder @ $80 (Alliant Promo)

5000 Wads @ $60 (Dusters)

With free hulls from the trap clubs I'm at $2.70 per box.

[BozemanMT]

8 lbs of Hodgon Clays $97 (used to be 108, but came down, I don't know why)
25 lbs of shot $20.99 (used to be 17.99 went up on Jan 1, no inflation my :cuss: )
1000 primers (either winchester or CCI's): $22.99
Winchester WAA12SL: 500/$5 or $10/1000
Hulls cost about 4 cents each teh first time, after that free.

we get about 400 hulls per bag of shot
or 1 8lb can lasts about 3000 shells.

$3 a box is close enough for us.;)

[ArmedBear]

That's my point.

If you can get boxes of STS for $5, sell the hulls for $1 and you're paying $4 per box.

So it would take 350 boxes to break even on a progressive reloader. That's 8750 rounds.

And that's if you're shooting high-end shells. Promos for $3.75 a box and you're talking 10,000 rounds.

For some trap shooters, that's a few weeks. At 100-200 rounds per week, it's a much longer time.

It also depends on how much spare time you have.

I'm not saying, "Don't do it." I'm just suggesting that a reloader is probably not the first investment that a recreational skeet shooter needs to make if he's at all short on cash, and it might never be the thing to do if he's short on leisure time.

[BozemanMT]

I don't pay private parties (my "friends") more than 3 cents a hull.
it's harder than you think to come by buyers.
Shops get 4 to 5 cents, and that's worth it (I've seen as much as $7 a 100, but that's too much)
but I do agree, you can cut your costs by selling them.

[axeman_g]

anybody want to buy some hulls?

I actually did some more reasearch and have decided against reloading at this time. I have two young kids, two dogs, wife, new job, new house, two extended families within 10 miles and other activities. I propable wont shoot more then 400 rds a month max... most likely 300 ... two Sundays a month and 4 or 5 rounds.... maybe a weekday lunch thrown in for another 3 rounds.

I also found a local ammo dealer that has a great price on Speer Target Loads picked up that run me about $3.40 a box. Cant beat it with a stick. I will save all my hulls though for the future.

Thanks for all your advice... I was interested in making 9's, and tinkering a bit. I will go get some of the books you all recomended, just to have.

[MCgunner]

What is best way to get educated about reloading?

Grow up with a grandpa and uncle who reload and spend evenings in the reloading room begging for something to do in the process (usually case trimming). :D Grandpa and uncle are long gone, but that old Pacific press still resides in MY reloading room.

I don't do shotguns anymore. It's not worth the time and effort and money.

[Hawk]

One reloads shotgun shells for roughly the same reasons that one builds one's own computer: to get exactly what you want. I gather that one doesn't invite accountants to the party until such time as you're reloading .410 and 28Ga.

Besides, it's fun and beats the snot out of reality TV.

And there's something to be said about the Dillon Calandar, as well.

[danurve]

For the most part I would agree with hawk. I don't reload shotshells, - yet. If I did it would be for trap and or perhaps some custom predator or turkey loads. I would probably take a good quality factory load and try to duplicate or improve on it. Such as I did with centerfire.
Now, I can get smokin accuracy out of custom loads without pushing max, and the brass life is good. I don't know how many times you can reuse a shotshell.

Ok thats enough thread hijacking for me today - What is the best way to get educated about reloading? If you take the plunge at some point its a good idea to first ask and read. Forums like these are great for that, and so I'd say you've already got yourself started. You might also want to check out predatormasters.com and shotgunworld.com and the reloadbench.com now granted alot of info is geared for centerfire but if you dig for information, or ask, reloaders generaly like to help.

[ArmedBear]

The thing is, it's hard to improve on commercially-available shotgun loads. Shotguns aren't rifles; it's not like they shoot all that differently with slightly different loads.

People certainly do tailor their loads for recoil, velocity, etc. But frankly there are VERY few people who can't find an STS or AA shell that gives them everything they could want. These shells have won most trophies and broken most records.

Clay-shooting reloaders tend to do their reloading because they can get their tailored loads for cheaper than equivalent off-the-shelf STS or AA shells.

And as with anything else in life, time is money and size matters. The more shells you shoot per year, the more it makes sense to reload.

And the less you value your time, the more it makes sense to reload. If it's between reloading and reality TV, it's a no-brainer. If it's between reloading and spending time with your kids, who will only be young once, it's also a no-brainer: don't reload when you can buy shells for $3.40 a box!

[mswestfall]

I can buy a flat of Game Clubs for $31.00 to $35.00 or I can reload my AA's for around $26.70 (before) to $27.50 (now).

I reload because:
I spend time with the dog, the neighbor, the neighbor's son, a nephew and yes even my family.
I have confidence in my loads; two basic loads 16-23 yard 1 oz. of 8's and 24+ yard 1 1/8 oz. of 7½'s. I load some special stuff from time to time.
I pick up all my reloading supplies from my club which saves me time driving to the store.
I learn about my sport from friends when talking about reloading.
I love my sport.

I don't claim to know much, but I do know that I love what I do; shoot trap.

[MCgunner]

I don't reload shot shells because the only thing I use a shotgun for is bird hunting and the most of that is with steel on ducks or Fed Tungsten/Iron on geese. I reload handgun ammo for ballistic and economy reasons, ditto rifle ammo. I cast for the handguns and like knowing I can always get my favorite bullet, just fire up the pot. I also shoot black powder and cast for that. I can see why a competition shooter would reload, consistency of his ammo and quality. I understand that because I do it for handguns and rifles. I'm a hunter, not a competitor, and my shotguns are tools to hunt with. With all the legislation around non-toxic shot, it just ain't worth reloading to me.

Right now, I'm melting some lead to cast some 220 grain conicals for my .Ruger Old Army. Seems I'm getting a little low.:D

[SShooterZ]

The thing is, it's hard to improve on commercially-available shotgun loads. Shotguns aren't rifles; it's not like they shoot all that differently with slightly different loads.

I would have to disagree with you a little bit there. From the 16 yard line, if you do your part, you're probably right. When you step it back a bit, there are some loads that pattern and recoil much differently than others and that can become a big factor when shooting shotguns.

I've seen people create very nice, soft shooting, clay busting loads for the 27 yard line that would have a very hard time duplicating with factory ammo.

Just some food for thought.

[redneck2]

Quick word of advice...with rifle & pistol you can experiment and change your loads. With shotgun you need to stick to exact loads. Hulls, primer, wads, etc.

I've used the cheapie loads and also AA's. There is a noticeable difference, at least on the sporting clays range particularly at longer yardages. Now I use 1 1/8 AA's and hit birds that wouldn't break before. After you shoot long enough, you'll notice that you get birds that chip but don't break with lighter loads. Sometimes (especially when it's cold) you'll have birds that will get knocked off course but still not break with 3/4 & 7/8 oz cheapie loads.

In the most extreme example (for me), I was shooting a course that was set up for the Indiana State Championship. I was using an 870 (obviously with one choke) with the cheapie Wal-Mart $3.35 a box loads. Anything over maybe 30 yards was pretty much a wasted shot. Pattern was so thin that it wouldn't break the birds. One of the guys I was shooting with was hard core. Changed chokes and loads depending on the range to the bird. I kinda thought it was more showmanship than substance until we started adding up the scores. Found out different.

There's a local guy that actually buys shot by the ton, powder in multiples of 8# and splits it with other shooters. Keeps costs way down. HTH

[ArmedBear]

I've seen people create very nice, soft shooting, clay busting loads for the 27 yard line that would have a very hard time duplicating with factory ammo.

That is true. There is a downside, which is the slight delay introduced by a slower-burning powder, though.

But the point is, if your handicap is 27, you're shooting a LOT of shells, so either way it makes sense to reload.:) Or get a sponsor.

A more general statement regarding soft-shooting handicap loads, though...

If your handicap is 27, you probably have a trap gun, so it probably weighs well over 8 pounds. The recoil pad on my trap gun was damaged when I got it, and I am considering having it shortened a bit. So I cut off the rubber with a pocket knife before a shoot, so I could try shooting with it shorter before actually having wood taken off of it. Right now I have no recoil pad on my trap gun. STS Nitro 27 loads are no problem for me with a 8.5 lb. gun without a pad. With a modern pad, I wouldn't feel a thing (and neither does a slender woman I shoot with, even after shoulder surgery, with a trap gun and a simple gel-tek pad).

So I'm just not "getting" this whole recoil-aversion thing. A 3" pheasant artillery shell in a light field gun is a different animal, but there's no trap load that I find objectionable in a trap gun.

Furthermore, if your handicap is 27, you're probably going to the Grand American. You have to use the commercial loads that ATA sells there. Therefore, you'd best practice with those loads, or handloaded equivalents, if you plan to hit much from that far back. Change your load to a different powder burn, etc., and your leads will be off -- not by much, but missing one bird means losing, when you're shooting at that level of competition.

[SShooterZ]

Slower burning powder does not reduce velocity. In fact, quite the opposite. You can usually achieve much HIGHER velocities more safely with a slower burning powder than you can a faster burning powder.

You can read about the various burn rates here. (http://www.reloadbench.com/burn.html)

Especially in the higher shot charges, a slower burning powder is a must to keep pressures down.

[ArmedBear]

Velocity is limited by competition rules, and absolute velocity is not desirable, especially if it disrupts a pattern.

But muzzle velocity is not the issue. Time from trigger pull to shot striking bird is the issue.

Powder that burns up in the first 8" of barrel vs. powder that burns up in 25" of barrel changes the timing of the shot, with the shot leaving the barrel later when the powder burns slower. That changes your lead, just like lock time and velocity do.

It's not something you want to change when you're shooting serious competition from the 27 yard line. If you can't buy the load from ATA, what's the point in practicing with it, if your handicap is 27?

[TrapperReady]

ArmedBear - I think to a large extent recoil can be a cummulative thing. I know lots of newer shooters who don't think anything of it... some actually enjoy a "hard hitting gun". However, I know a lot more seasoned shooters who have huge numbers of shells through their guns, and almost every single one shoots the lightest possible load they can get away with. A large number have experienced the dreaded "F-Word", which like alcoholism is something you have to be vigilant about for the rest of your life.

I used to shoot 1 1/8 oz light target loads exclusively. Then I went to 1 oz, then 7/8 oz. I'm now back up to 1 oz for most things, because I've really got my gun dialed in well. However, if I light up some 1 1/8 oz handicap loads, it is VERY unpleasant.

BTW, last year I ran through about 11,000 shells, and this year should do a good bit more. When I was shooting a couple thousand a year, it wasn't much of an issue.

[SShooterZ]

ArmedBear - I don't think you or I or anyone for that matter can really tell the .0001 second delay a slower burning would have over a faster burning powder. If you can, your reflexes are much sharper than mine.