[madmike]

Chainsaws having been ruled out, I do have .68 cal hard plastic and glass pellets to fit paintball guns....

[JShirley]

I'm not sure if they're still available, but I noticed several years ago that pepper balls for .68 paintball markers, along with UV paint-filled balls, were available. Last time I looked, sales of the pepper balls were restricted to LEO (in US).

Would seem to be an effective less-lethal non-firearm standoff tool.

Unsure about legalities/availabilities in UK.

John

[madmike]

Definitely illegal for civvies in the UK. Definitely unavailable in the legal market.

[P-35/53]

I saw a Japanese made film on cable the other day , it was a sort of thriller involving a man who snuck into homes . Everybody in the movie on hearing an intruder grabbed a golf club . Japan is also restricive on weapons possesion so the gulf club might be the defacto choice.

[Skofnung]

How about a sling for outdoor use? slinging.org

For indoor use, a large framing hammer would look innocent enough to the powers that be, right?

[Lo.Com.Denom]

Chainsaws having been ruled out, I do have .68 cal hard plastic and glass pellets to fit paintball guns....

Well, personally I certainly haven't ruled them out, as such -- studied arboriculture at college -- you can move them around at frightening speed, if you're brave enough. But if that chain strikes something the wrong way and rebounds, you can easily come a-cropper with some horrid results (we've all heard the horror stories:uhoh: ). Kind of puts them into the section labled "liability", rather than "weapon". Still, for intimidation...

What kind of weight and velocity do those glass and plastic pellets have? I still think that the best way to encourage someone to leave your property is to hurl hard and heavy things at them, until they go away...

[madmike]

I'll try to weigh some. Stand by a few hours.

[1911JMB]

I'd get a cane.

[mr.trooper]

http://www.coldsteel.com/koga.html

Try the SD1

Its compact, painfull, and OBVIOUSLY intended, even to uber libbs, as a non-lethal Defencive weapon.

[stealthmode]

some sort of short sword or machete, a club with spikes, cleaver in one hand butcher knife in the other slash and stab kind of thing.

why dont you just start a revolution over there.

[Boom-stick]

I don't think you could far wrong with having body tattoos, a la Max Cady from the film Cape Fear??
Just standing there looking like a complete nutter should help a bit:)

Or pouring a small bottle of fake blood over your head before they see you should work a treat:evil:

Nothing like trying to attack someone that looks like they've just killed someone else......for fun:)

[Boom-stick]

Ok. on a more serious note, get a small police riot shield and a baseball bat:)

[Boom-stick]

http://www.securityprousa.com/tabaleiiima.html

[JShirley]

Oh, good god.

[sm]

I'm thinking Range Rover personally...

Run over the perp, go "oopsy-daisy", and with the new "slap on the hands" policies one should just be free to go.

'I say old Chap, the lever must have gone into forward I dare say'

[Nicky Santoro]

Ka-Bar if the British nanny state will allow it. It doesn't get much more CQB than that, nor is there anything more up close and personal. BTDT, but with his knife, not mine and it wasn't a Ka-Bar.

[Thefabulousfink]

The Cold Steel City Stick is completely legal and dang near indistuctible. Plus the steel cap makes a good striking point and you have better reach and leverage.

http://www.coldsteel.com/citystick.html

Edit: plus you can carry it anywhere w/o breaking any pesky "no-carry" laws.

[ryan b]

I going to catch heck for this!
MOVE!

I would personally look at a good knife. But a good long piece of pipe works well too

[Burt Blade]

Cricket bat?

[Lo.Com.Denom]

Boom-Stick, my head says that that mask is the stupidest thing I've ever seen...

My heart, however, says that I reallyreallyreally need one anyway...

This mask was tested for NIJ IIIA.


No, this mask was tested for NINJA!!

[Soap]

Why not make a "tactical" knife that looks exactly like any common kitchen knife? It could have an 8" blade and be of thicker stock than a regular kitchen knife.

[Matt_W]

KaBars etc are still legally available in the UK. It is unlawfull however for dealers to sell knives in such a way that suggests that they can be used in combat or as fighting knives.

[madmike]

"While not a fighting knife itself, this lovely reproduction is identical in design, materials and workmanship to the knife used by US Marines and soldiers to slice thousands of Axis throats in WWII. It makes a fantastic display for your collection.":neener:

[Boats]

"This Ka Bar is a largely faithful reproduction of the 7-inch (177.8mm) utility knife widely distributed to American forces in World War 2. Do not be mistaken, the guards on both the spine and edge sides of this knife were not designed to catch the edge of say, a samurai sword, but rather to protect the hand of the user from riding onto the blade during those times it was necessary to repeatedly and deeply stab something, like, er, a fuel can to make a handy field shower.":D

[mhoneth]

As a fencer, I would have to recommend the rapier. A regular epee or foil is blunted, but can still cause serious injury at a distance of 4 meters (good for a hallway or other room). But a real rapier would be deadly.

No swinging required as these are piercing weapons.
Some are concealed in canes.
Silent.
Ready to use.

[madmike]

A rapier greatly limits your attacks and requires a certain amount of training, though. An actual saber, not a fencing type, however, is still an excellent idea. Get a pretty one to hand on the bedroom wall...it was the only thing handy, My Lord.

[Boom-stick]

SM,

How'd you know I got a range rover???:confused:

Lo.Com.Denom

Those mask's do look cool, don't if I'd want to take one in the face though, must be like getting smacked round the head with a slegde hammer.

That site does armour for nearly every bodypart??
When civilisation starts to crumble I know where I'm going shopping!!:)

[chorlton]

IS this for your house or outside?
Inside, you have plenty of choices that could be just "lying around" when mr burglar comes around - a good old claw hammer for example.
Outside, a simple but effective weapon is a tightly rolled magazine (dont laugh), especially with a little martial arts training. If you want to be a little more inventive, you could have just bought some oven cleaner (so you were not intending to carry it as a weapon)...
Is a kubotan still legal? If not, you could still arrange your keys in a certain way...

[madmike]

Carried oven spray, without other groceries, could be deemed to be a chemical weapon. This is true in many jurisdictions.

It's also not that effective, and if you wind up spraying the wrong way, you get hurt yourself. I recommend against it.

However, hot peppers and rubbing alcohol in a good spray bottle (assuming they're legal) are more painful, less likely to cause injury, and have a better range.

Or use grain alcohol and it doubles as chili seasoning.:evil:

[Skofnung]

If you're out and about, how about a stout cane and some training?

Oven Spray a chemical weapon? Jeeze...

GB would be one of the best places in the world were it not for the stupid laws passed since WWII.

[Boom-stick]

If it's HD we're talking about, take a recommened SD class and keep yourself in shape and do finger strengthening exercises.

You've got the advantage on home turf anyway, and if it's at night, just kill the lights and whisper "I'm gonna kill ya'' loud enough to freak them out.....:)

If they look like crack-heads, unless you knock 'em out, runaway, because they still won't be scared even if you managed to chop both their arms off.

These are just my thoughts, make of them what you will.

DW

[John-Melb]

What about a entrenching tool or one of those "auto" shovels?

[Dirty Bob]

Items from hardware stores or sports stores (large ratchet wrenches, cricket bats, etc.) could be used in the home but are obviously not weapons.

A good claw hammer would be a scary thing to face. :eek:

Regards,
Dirty Bob

[GrammatonCleric]

Here's what ya do. You take a Sharpie, and write "Born to Kill" on your forehead, (use a mirror). Dress for the occasion in your best kilt, smoking jacket, and combat boots (K-pot optional). Now pour yourself a snifter of brandy, and strap on you best battleaxe (You ARE a Limey).:p Now, when the miscreant enters, you should have a pipe sticking out of your mouth, brandy in hand, battleaxe on your back, and riding crop in your off-hand. Said miscreant will most probably realize that he is SOL and JWF, or he will blow a gasket laughing himself stupid, in either case, a few choice thumps with the riding crop should cause the ne'er-do-well to hightail out of your residence. If worst comes to worst, throw the brandy in his face, drop the pipe, and unsling "Maude" to show him you mean BUSINESS!! Or just use the Austin Powers "Judo Chop" it always works.:p

[1911JMB]

Another good one would be an easily breakable glass bottle. Just walk around with a Sobe or something and you'll be all set.

[JShirley]

Once again, I'm going to respectfully suggest that cutting someone with anything short and sharp is NOT an intelligent action in this day. Offensive wounds are common. Blood is dangerous.

J

[iapetus]

How about a large Maglite?

[Matt-man]

You need a bedside table. (http://www.jamesmcadam.co.uk/portfolio_html/sb_table.html) At first I thought it was a joke, but given the restrictions in the UK I guess it's not a bad idea.

[madmike]

Yeah, I've seen that and love it.

Problem is if you put stuff on it.

[Boom-stick]

Think I'm gonna invest in a surefire defender and a spyderco UK pen knife for everyday carry (both UK legal) and maybe a cold steel boar spear for an interesting wall piece next to the bed??

Any Thoughts??

I wouldn't aim to cut anyone with a short blade as Mr Shirley's comments are quite correct on the dangers of blood, I even got poisoned by getting my own blood in my eyes!!

DW

[madmike]

Good idea on the Surefire.

More than once on field exercises, we used camera flashes to blind sentries at night. Point, close eyes, flash. It's disorienting and destroys any night vision.

Then briskly apply a Blunt Instrument Of Enlightenment:D

[Gordon]

The Boar spear (or two) on wall is a lovely idea! Col Jeff Cooper has a few on the Sconce walls!;)

[JShirley]

How about a large Maglite?

YES. Great idea- 4 C cell size is about optimal for this, for me. Judicious "tactical" application of light= good.

Being able to use your light weekly is a bonus. :)

John

[NMshooter]

I once handled a 6 D-cell Maglight.

:evil:

A bit long for easy carry, but probably drops right into a speed ring...;)

And it is a flashlight, not a weighted club, honest.:D

[Elmer Snerd]

Why not make a "tactical" knife that looks exactly like any common kitchen knife? It could have an 8" blade and be of thicker stock than a regular kitchen knife. Perhaps one of these (http://www.agrussell.com/knives/by_maker/a_through_d/boker/boker_gaucho_10_inch_blade.html), or something from this page (http://www.agrussell.com/knives/by_purpose/cooking.html)?

[Matt_W]

Surefire and Cold Steel are a good combination for the UK although you need to be aware that the CPS might catch on to the E2d's 'defensive' design and argue they are weapons per se. Under the Prevention of Crime Act they reverse the burden of proof to the defendant if he is carrying a 'weapon per se' but with an E2e for example the onus would be on the Prosecution to prove your criminal intent and would be unlikely to even charge you.

"If they look like crack-heads, unless you knock 'em out, runaway, because they still won't be scared even if you managed to chop both their arms off."

What if you cannot easily run away though? What if your family are relying on you for their protection?

Weapons are designed to be more relieable than tools or sports equipment so depending on your individual circumstances you may be far better to just buy a weapon that is legally obtainable in your area and stick with it. Also if you bend or break a tool the prosecution can just use it to illustrate how hard you hit the poor burglar and how out of control you must have been.

[madmike]

The logic used seems to be, "This item is intended as a weapon. Therefore, by buying a weapon, you intended, hoped, CRAVED to get in a fight. Therefore, you had no intent to run away, and maliciously attacked the poor defendant who was merely taking a late night stroll in your living room while pursuing his antique resale business, shame on you, you heathen, atavistic killer!"

I wonder when they'll ban fire extinguishers. After all, firefighting is best left to professionals.:rolleyes:

So I'd say go with the sporting goods or well-made decorative pieces. "It's all I had at hand. I never INTENDED to have to hurt someone."

I prefer hanging out at the gun show here.

Police officer: "Holy @#$, dude, what is that shotgun for?"

me: "Killing scumbags at 0300."

Polcie officer: "Ought to do it, but damn, I'd hate to do the cleanup. Have you considered a nice, ladylike .357?"

[Boom-stick]

"If they look like crack-heads, unless you knock 'em out, runaway, because they still won't be scared even if you managed to chop both their arms off."

What if you cannot easily run away though? What if your family are relying on you for their protection?


Matt, that was part of what "I" thought was a humerous post that was aimed at street and home defense, but the humerous bit got er...."Edited", (english sarcasm strikes again!!)

As for the running away bit, I'm not 'genetically' able to run away, the last time we had a break in (18mths ago) I popped home at lunchtime, walked part way in saw the mess and ran through the house looking for 'them', not a thought as to them being armed etc...but found no-one.

And about a year ago, had a call at work from my next door neighbour saying someone with was hammering in my kitchen window and that they had called the police, I got there same time as the police and just ran straight round the back to the kitchen window, again, no thought to them being armed , just ran in, fortunately for both of us, he had gone.

Instinct just takes over.

If I had already been at home, I've no doubt I would have gone straight to the gun safe.

No, in all fairness, I'm concerned about the 'defender' tag on the surefire, but if there was a situation that called for me to use it, I'm sure the vast collection of Paladin Press books, gun magazines, MA books, knife and gun collections at home will probably raise more eyebrows than the torch:)

But as one of my local Bobby's kindly pointed out, whist investigating a car break-in at the range car park, if you do wind up shooting someone, make sure you put at least a screwdriver in their hand before anyone turns up:)

Still makes me laugh about the stupidity of someone breaking into a car out side a shooting range, must have had a death wish????

[ocelot777]

Boom -- there was once this old farmer called Tony Martin . . .

Mind how you go :)

[madmike]

It was 1997, September. The 12th, I believe. We had a double Darwin Award in Indianapolis.

See, everything by the Indianapolis Motor Speedway (which is not in Indianapolis, but in the town of Speedway) is the "Speedway" or "500" something.

So, two young men, 18 and 20, went into 500 Guns on 16th Street to rob it.

During business hours.

Armed with knives.

Yes, knives.:eek:

After some scuffling, the owner shot one in the head and one in the heart.

A few minutes later, IPD arrived.

Now, I have a lot of issues with IPD, but they handled this exactly by the book.

"Dayum. Knives. They were some stupid sons of #$%, weren't they? You okay, sir? Alright then. Shoot some photos, tag 'em, bag 'em and drag 'em, boys."

Three column inches on the bottom of the front page for those with a macabre sense of humor.

End of story.:cool:

[Boom-stick]

Ocelot... what happened to Tony Martin just highlighted all the major flaws in our country and the SD laws have been changed slightly to allow the use of (legally held)firearms for HD.

I feel the only mistake Martin made was.......... leaving survivors.

[Matt_W]

Hi Boom Stick, I did n't mean to appear as if you were suggesting that one should really run away or imply that you would. :)

You are of course completely correct.

The Martin case is an interesting insight into the mindset of the jury. They found him not guilty of possesion of a firearm with intent to endanger life but still managed to find him guilty of murder, apparantly due in part to comments he had previously made at a Crime Prevention meeting that the Police attended about rounding burglars up in a field and shooting them.

IMO it was not so much a verdict on his actions that night but rather the irrational feelings the Jury had about firearms.

[ocelot777]

"I feel the only mistake Martin made was.......... leaving survivors"

fair comment, especially as the surviving criminal then sued poor old Tony for damages (successfully, IIRC).:fire:

[madmike]

Well, he DID affect the poor man's ability to pursue his profession, and wasn't apologetic about it.

Yup. Should have finished the job. So much easier if there's only one story.

[Boom-stick]

Tony did make some mistakes though,
one of the guys he shot was lying on the floor in front of him when he done it, that's questionable:confused: (should have made him standup first:) )
and I believe there were injuries to the BG's backs as well.
You can't do that in the UK, you can only injure their frontal areas otherwise they will just plead they were trying to runaway when they were shot.

The same applies if your scrapping on the floor with one, grab a knife of the kitchen side board, reach round and 'get' them in the back so they stop strangling you, you will get charged with assault, because they will plead that you did it whilst they were trying to flee the scene.:confused: :confused: :confused:

[iapetus]

Other mistakes made by Martin:

* After shooting at the burglars (and in a situation where it was highly likely he would have hit them), not calling the police/ambulances. (Thereby ensuring it was the wounded burglar who reported the incident first).

* Leaving ("hiding") his gun at his mother's house. (I'm sure some people would say it was entierly reasonable for him - knowing that there may have been burglars on the loose - to give his mother a defensive weapon, but there was nerer any claim that that was what he was doing).

* Giving a false account of the circumstances in which he shot at them.

* Relying more on an "it was dark and I was taken by surprise by them shining a torch at me" defence, rather than "I feared for my life and did what I felt I had to do to protect myself" defence.

* On a previous occasion, shooting at a trespasser, thereby loosing his shotgun licence.

* Using (in the burglar case) a pump-action shotgun (subject in the UK to much stricter laws than normal shotguns), which he not only was possessing illegaly, but claimed to have "just found it in my car one day".



Interestingly, he did phone a neighbour to tell them that he had shot at some burglars, but thought he had missed. The surviving, wounded burglar, later crawled to that house, seeking help. When the neighbours saw him, they realised what had happened, and called the police. The police advised them to stay in doors and not go out to help the wounded burglar, which implies that the police realised that a burglar can be potentialyl very dangerous.


I learned all this from a recent documentary, in which Martin, the burglar, and various others involved were all interviewed. When the police arrived to collect the wounded burglar, they asked him if he had been alone. Despite the fact it should have been obvious to him that his companion had been shot, he insisted he was alone, claiming in the documentary that if he had informed on his mate "I would have felt like a scumbag" :banghead: If he had informed, his mate ("a decend chap, never harmed anyone; well, except those he robbed" :barf: ) would have almost certainly survived rather than being left to bleed to death.

[Boom-stick]

I can't remember all the facts but, hadn't he been burgled many times and targetted by those guys in past?

I also seem to remember something about the closest police officers being 45mins away?

I could be wrong.

[Matt_W]

"Interestingly, he did phone a neighbour to tell them that he had shot at some burglars, but thought he had missed. The surviving, wounded burglar, later crawled to that house, seeking help. When the neighbours saw him, they realised what had happened, and called the police. The police advised them to stay in doors and not go out to help the wounded burglar, which implies that the police realised that a burglar can be potentially very dangerous."

Knowing how the Police leave shooting victims to bleed to death in the UK whilst conducting a formal 'risk assessment' and ensuring that the shooter is no longer present before entering the area, I would say that their advice was not based on how dangerous burglars can be but more an insight into the mindset of UK Police Forces and their irrational fear of firearms in general.

[madmike]

I watched a re-enactment of a 911 call from the Southwest. Guy heard crashing and movement, took his rifle to investigate and found a cougar in his kitchen.

So he called, explained the situation, they kept getting details while the police were dispatched.

Then there came the bit that, "The police are pulling up now. When they get outside the door, I'm going to tell you to PUT DOWN THE GUN FOR THEIR SAFETY,":fire: implying that he can't tell friend from foe, and the risk of him being mauled by a cougar is an acceptable trade for the risk of him not knowing the people he is in constant verbal contact with are actually police and not, say, a gang of cougars bent of revenge. It also implies he's simultaneously trustworthy enough to follow that instruction (They would have no way of knowing). So which is it? Panicky idiot who'll take random potshots, or man on the scene who'll comply with instructions to resolve the issue? Can't have it both ways.:banghead:

Luckily, you hear the deputy's voice on the tape tell the dispatcher, "Hey, if holding the rifle helps him keep control of the animal, let him keep it. It's not as if he's going to shoot me."

[Lo.Com.Denom]

Back on topic,

training, I think, is of far more value than which particular variation of blunt object you intend to clobber the home-invader with. Training works both ways, of course -- hopefully giving you some idea of what to do when somebody lunges at you in your own home, but also what not to do, to avoid spending some time eating porridge (prison time).

A friend of mine returned with a colleague to the colleagues flat one day, to find a downstairs window open. My friend waited outside, nervously clutching a table leg from a nearby skip whilst his colleague went into the flat. Colleague flushes out burglar who gets halfway out of the window with an armfull of stereo-speakers, before copping a table leg in the face from my hyped-up friend...

Friend calls me up that night, bricking his pants that he's killed the guy and that he's going to go to prison like Tony Martin. We spent the night going over his story and just what he was and wasn't going to say to the police.

Turned out that the guy lived, but my friend had hit him so hard that he had amnesia and couldn't remember enough to press charges.

But if he'd killed the guy, he probably would have gone down for it. The burglar had been fleeing and hadn't attacked my friend in any way. I sometimes think that with a bit of training he might have thought first before swinging, or at least been confident enough to come up with a better plan of action. But c'est la vie, I've never been in that situation myself, thankfully, and have no idea how I would have reacted at the time.

BTW, in this situation, a table leg was the best CQB weapon;) .

Stay safe.

[madmike]

BTW, in this situation, a table leg was the best CQB weapon .;)

DON'T SAY THAT!

Now you've done it!

We're going to degenerate into which woods and styles of table legs make the best CQB weapons.

BTW: I prefer turned rock maple, for a smooth grip, with the slight flare toward the foot, a length of 32" and a thickness of no more than 2".

Hickory would actually make a better wood, but hickory furniture is rare.

[John G]

Non-firearm CQB? I know it's not a "weapon" per se, but how about a dog?

[madmike]

Do you use small dogs and throw them like grenades, or large dogs and beat the guy with the head while holding the tail?

[Boom-stick]

Madmike, LOL!!!!!

in all fairness, I used to keep rottweilers, big one's, and funnily enough, didn't have any problems. They could attack on command and even from behind the fence they would leave a stranger with the impression they would remove your face.:what:

[madmike]

"Lady, your chihuahua is killing my rottweiler!"

"That's absurd! How could my little juanito hurt a large dog like a rottweiler?"

"Butcher is choking to death on the little @#$er!"

Okay, back to the thread.

If you can afford the time and money to maintain a dog, they're a good warning system. Don't bet on a beloved family pet, no matter how trained, to take down the bad guy. There are too many ways to maim and kill a dog, and most people have less compunction about doing so than they do about people.

[Boom-stick]

In some cases you're probably just as well-off with a 'Beware the dog' sign as you are a dog.

I always used to say, "My cat can kill your dog!!",
The reply"Yeah, How",
"It'll get stuck in it's throat"

[Oldnamvet]

Buy a snorkle mask, swim fins, and then the following:
http://www.dixiediver.com/ABBILLER%20HOME.htm

I'd hate to come up against one of these at short range.

[Boom-stick]

Buy a snorkle mask, swim fins, and then the following:
http://www.dixiediver.com/ABBILLER%20HOME.htm

I'd hate to come up against one of these at short range.

Already 2 steps ahead of ya'

I teach freediving part-time, got pole spears and spear guns:)

[Boom-stick]

Back on Topic.

Pool cue??

I forgot that I always keep a take-down pool-cue next to the front door. The lower half of the cue is very strong and a formidable impact weapon. It lived in my car for many years, just in case my buddies rang up for a game after work:)

[madmike]

I've seen pool cues shatter and split more often than not. I'd be very reluctant to bet my life on one.

Of course, if it splits we then have a long pointy thing.

[Zero_DgZ]

I own several swords for similar purposes. One is a 42" Paul Chen generation 1 Practical Katana which lies in a sword stand with my clear maple wooden sword (home carved by yours truly) in the slot beneath it.

Interesting point on that wooden sword. I made it a couple of years ago, but when I carved it I made a pair. I got ahold of this piece of maple that was big enough for two practice hittin' sticks, so I made a 36" one for myself (which is about the right length for dominant hand swording about for me) and a 30" one for my friend's at-the-time-kid brother as he was getting interested in the art of pointed sticks but his mother was strongly against it. Bad influence as I am, I carved the boy a wooden sword. Well, that was about five years ago, now. Maybe four. That boy's put his sword through hell and back. I've seen him chop down small trees with it. That is, knocking down live wood. With dead wood. Blunt dead wood.

I've never hit anything with my wooden sword, but I have no doubts as to its capability.

I also have a one-piece inexpensive Pakistani 'ninja' sword with a nice hard nylon sheath that fits perfectly in the gap between the driver's seat and the area below the door of my car. It's almost precisely the length of my forearm from the crossguard (or what passes for it) to the tip, which makes it the perfect length for close quarters work. Clears weeds like nobody's business, too.

For training purposes I have a 36" long (again, perfect length) piece of 3/4" rebar rolling around in my trunk. It goes along with me hiking sometimes, because it's such a useful gizmo for walking, climbing, bashing, and dealing with snakes (just drop it on 'em, it weighs about 15 pounds).

I would certainly imagine that nunchaku and similar are banned in jolly old England, but I'm a strong proponent for them for close range self defense because of their leverage based force magnifying properties. A good flailing weapon can put somebody's face in the pavement with minimal effort even if you're not Bruce Lee. Bet you could improvise something suitably heavy to add to, say, a keychain. Ferinstance, a 3300 pound test quick link (used for attaching pieces of towing chain, available at any decent hardware store) will make an excellent half a nunchuck with your keys forming the other end, and is also large enough to use as a very capable brass knuckle sort of arrangement.

It's all about creativity.

[madmike]

36" X .75" steel round weighs 4.5 lbs at 4.5 oz per cubic inch


As to your sig, I'd feel better if it was phrased, "Support the troops, not the politics behind the war."

You can't support me if you tell me what I'm doing is wrong or doesn't matter.

It would be like me telling my brother-in-law the Microsoft exec that I support his job, but hope his company goes bankrupt.

[Zero_DgZ]

Thing feels heavier. One of these days I'll weigh it.

As to the politics, I try not to get into that too much with people because it makes everybody involved mad.

[madmike]

But you did mention politics. I simply politely made my point: You can't support me if you oppose what I'm doing.

Food for thought only. No need for us to debate.

[fds5116]

madmike
here's an historical sidelight on the use of dogs as smart bombs
http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=504
problem was, the Russians trained their dogs using their own tanks - perhaps they hadn't captured any panzers at the time...

I quite liked Freehold.
Cheers
Frank

[madmike]

Yup. Reminds me of the joke about hunting apes.

"Shoot the dog! Shoot the dog!"

:evil:

Also look up the US experiments with bats as aerial mines and the General's jeep.:eek:

[madmike]

Oh, and thanks. Working on a new SF novel now.

Title is, "Better To Beg Forgiveness..."

I'm sure all the vets can see where this one's going.:evil:

[Preacherman]

Actually, you're all of you wrong. The best weapon for home defence in the UK is one that's been around for millenia. The Scots developed it. It's called . . . haggis.

First, catch your haggis. Then, place it in an airtight plastic container with an easily-peeled-back lid. Allow to ferment in its own juices until you can see the maggots swimming around. Then, place in a convenient location, and wait for the intruder to break in.

At the first sign of trouble, peel back the lid (while holding your breath, of course) and throw the fermenting haggis all over the intruder. Then, still holding your breath, evacuate the premises while listening to the screams of the intruder being devoured by the maggots. Call the police and report an incident of biological terrorism. Sit back and wait while they demolish your home as a toxic waste dump. Let them pay to build you a new one. Blame Al Qaeda for everything.

Simple, innit?

:D

[madmike]

Haggis is delicious.

The mistake most Americans make is getting the longer, stringier downhill legs.

See, the haggis only walks one way around the highlands, so one side (usually the right) develops longer legs and takes longer strides. The shorter legs work less and are far more tender.

Generally, those aren't exported. You have to get them IN Scotland.

[ndh87]

Im not familiar with UK laws, but maybe a nice compound bow? or if you want to try and make something i saw someone shoot a pencil through a piece of wood maybe 1/4in thick by putting it in the hose of a fire extinguisher then discharging the extinguisher.

[Zero_DgZ]

I think just hosing the perp down with a large commerical fire extinguisher would probably knock him off kilter enough for you to whang him with the empty cylinder. If you've never fired one of those things, they're loud. And the stuff comes out of 'em pretty hard, too.

[madmike]

If you have dry chem, it will create a choking cloud--I was present when a system discharged during installation. No one could see anything, or breathe.

If you have CO2, it will create a huge roar, a cloud that dissipates and affects breathing, and is unlikely to affect the user.

Both have potential.

[NYenthusiast]

I was under the impression air rifles were legal for use in the UK? Why not use a compact pellet rifle, its not a manstopper but I suppose if you need a last ditch defense its alright. Besides that in a situation where your life is being threatened load a paintball marker with marbles or gobstoppers up the velocity and take headshots. I know it sounds like a gorss attempt at humor but it would probably be effective.

[turretG]

A pocket full of ground dried habanaro pepper to give to your attacker towards the face in case he has a bowl chili near there to spice up. Every spice shop
should have some. Certainly spice up his or her day and you might make a new friend, quite civiliized that thought, eh what old bean?

[madmike]

I'm still trying to track the .68 cal glass beads for paintball guns I used to be able to get.

[Oldnamvet]

More vicious than a large knife. Once saw it used in RVN many years ago. Get an old Army surplus entrenching tool (small shovel) and sharpen all the edges and sides. Honed up like a razor it will take out your knifewielding BG in short order. Great for thrusting and slicing.

[Boom-stick]

If the topic is going in this direction, then I'll vote for anything by TOM ANDERSON, critical mass etc....:)

[Lo.Com.Denom]

Why not use a compact pellet rifle, its not a manstopper but I suppose if you need a last ditch defense its alright.

Yeah, air rifles under 12ft/lbs are legal and unlicensed at the moment (the government seems to want this changed, however. Yes, people have been badly injured and sometimes killed with those 12ft/lbs, but then people have also been badly injured and killed putting their trousers on. No, don't get me started...). However, anything over this limit requires a firearms certificate (FAC) and a good reason for ownership. Not much KE to play with, at 12ft/lbs. Eight or more shots from a magazine-fed, pre-charged pneumatic (PCP) might make 'em think twice, I suppose, but springers would probably just elicit a cry of: "Ouch! You b*stard!".

On a side note, air-pistols are restricted to a measly 6ft/lbs. If your air-pistol accidentally shoots just 6.0001ft/lbs, it's as illegal as a machinegun. :confused:

Go, as you say, figure...

[madmike]

Here in Indy I can carry an open bolt, full auto, suppressed Uzi under a trenchcoat and I'm kosher, but if I carry a switchblade it's a Class C misdemeanor, and a shuriken would be a Class A misdemeanor...:confused:

[Matt_W]

Hi Madmike, you could try these people http://www.theppb.co.uk/index1.htm

Let us know if you do source any because I might have to buy myself a paintball gun if you do :)