[jjohnson]

Hi, Gents!

I have a question for you - I have a pile of 9mm luger reloads that are 'fat' at the base by a couple thousandths and they won't chamber in anything I have.
I tried resizing them in a full length 9mm sizing die and they still won't chamber. I hate to throw out a few hundred of these, and I really don't want to disassemble them all one by one to salvage bullets. Any ideas? I tried chambering them in a .38 special just for fun, and I can't even use them there. I could probably squeeze them into a .38 S&W but I'm not going to buy another firearm just to use up some out of spec ammo. The case just above the rim mikes about .390 at the fattest spots. Thanks.:mad:

[ReloaderFred]

There could be a couple of issues here. First of all, do you know what firearm the brass was fired in the first time? Some have chambers at the large end of SAAMI specs to accomodate feeding, such as Glock pistols, which leave a distinctive rectangular mark on the primer, framing the firing pin indent.

Secondly, is your sizing die screwed all the way down to touch the shellholder? It should just touch, but not hard enough to break the carbide, if you're using carbide dies.

There are also dies that are flared at the mouth of the die to make feeding in a progressive press easier. Dillon comes to mind. These dies won't size as far down the case as some others. I've found Lee dies to size further down the case than most, though I'm not a big fan of other Lee products, but their dies are of pretty good quality for the price.

There is a product made by Magma that sizes a case all the way from the mouth to the rim, including the rim, called the Case Master, Jr. It works by pushing a rimless case all the way through a carbide die and out the bottom. It makes the whole case the same size. I have one for sizing 9mm, 10mm based cartridges and .45 acp based cartridges. I believe the price is somewhere around $240.00, set up for one caliber, but it's really only meant for the serious (read obsessive) reloader.

Once the round is loaded, if it won't chamber, then about the only course left to you is to pull them down and reuse the bullets, etc.

Try adjusting your dies and using your barrel for a guage before you load more than a couple. Just doing the "drop test" will tell you if the rounds will chamber. If they won't drop into the barrel removed from the gun, then they won't chamber later.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[The Bushmaster]

ReloaderFred and jjohnson...I just miked several of my resized 9mm X 19 cases and all of them are .388 to .392. This seems to be about right. He might check his chamber to make sure that it was machined correctly. I have not had this experiance in any of the 9mm firearms that I have fired my 9mm X 19 reloads in...

[WayneConrad]

I tried chambering them in a .38 special just for fun, and I can't even use them there. I could probably squeeze them into a .38 S&W but I'm not going to buy another firearm just to use up some out of spec ammo.
I'm sure you know not to try firing 9mm Luger ammo in anything other than a 9mm Luger firearm. Destruction of your firearm, injury or death could result.

[The Bushmaster]

That's O K Wayne...He would need a hammer to chamber a 9mm X 19 in a .38 Special. Without the use of a hammer he will not be able to close the cylinder.:D

[caz223]

We need more info....
Do you know the origin of this brass?
Was it fired in a glock previously?
Are you sure that they are too fat, and not too long?
What dies are you using to decap/resize?
What crimp die are you using?
Single stage press, I'd assume?
Are the bullets jacketed or cast lead?
Are the cases visually deformed, IE the 6 o'clock bulge?
What kind of gun are you trying to fire them in?
Do you have any other guns in 9mm?
If you live in SW michigan, I'd be more than willing to help face to face, but this is not easy to troubleshoot without being there....
Guns in 9mm tend to be on the loose side of SAAMI spec, so you're way out if it doesn't chamber.
Double check your chamber to make sure it's clean.
Make sure your (Re)sizer is just touching the shell holder/plate if steel, and the width of a piece of paper from touching if carbide.
Make sure you're using the right shell holder/plate.
If you go through all of that, and answer all the questions above with logical answers, I'd say your die doesn't size down far enough.
Of the dies I'd personally seen the EGW U dies size down the farthest. However seating lead bullets in brass sized with those dies is miserable.
http://egw-guns.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=40&osCsid=1c664688d03c4fcb63436747ece4f8d0
They work extremely well paired with redding competition seater dies.
I really don't know if you can post size with this die with the bullet seated, it sizes to .353 (So my guess would be no.), it's to prevent future problems.
The lee factory crimp die may 'fix' your problem but it's a band aid. You may be able the fix the problem for the same money and less work rather than covering it up.
(This brass isn't that trash AMERC, is it? If it is, don't even try to fix it, bull the bullets, and trash the brass.)

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

jjohnson,

"I have a question for you - I have a pile of 9mm luger reloads that are 'fat' at the base by a couple thousandths and they won't chamber in anything I have."

Since you've said anything, it suggests to me you have more than one 9MM, so that eliminates a tight chamber with one gun. That aside, I think in this case, I'd buy myself a case gauge and check them out.

"I tried resizing them in a full length 9mm sizing die and they still won't chamber."

The only other possible alternative I can think of is a Lee Factory crimp die, which, according to their advertisement, designed to bring a loaded cartridge back to factory dimensions, ironing out "fat" bulges, etc. I think were I you, I'd try the Lee FCD.

I hate to throw out a few hundred of these, and I really don't want to disassemble them all one by one to salvage bullets. Any ideas?"

The Lee Factory Crimp Die mentioned above, then check with a case gauge. If they pass the case gauge test, they should be golden unless you have a problem with your gun/s.

"I tried chambering them in a .38 special just for fun, and I can't even use them there. I could probably squeeze them into a .38 S&W but I'm not going to buy another firearm just to use up some out of spec ammo."

This is really a bad idea and dangerous.

After reading the other posts, this is about the last reasonably affordable alternative I can think of. If you can't bring them back to specification with the Lee FCD, I would recommend buying a Hornady cam lock puller and breaking down the rounds, then tossing the brass.

I hope this helps,

Dave

[jjohnson]

Thanks, guys, for the input and keep it coming.

FIRST - I said I tried to CHAMBER this ammo in .38 - I didn't try to SHOOT it.
I was using a 9mm and .357 Ruger convertible set of cylinders for comparison at my bench, so don't lose any sleep over me. And no, the comment about a .38 S&W wasn't to imply I'd consider blowing one of those up, either. I am fond of all my fingers and both eyes. I'm also mindful of chamber pressures.

Yes, I have a number of 9mms, including a Glock. Some of these may have come through that one - can't tell from the primers since they were reloaded, though. I'll cast the chamber and mike it to see if it's out of SAAMI spec.

Oh yes - I'm using a case gauge, and they're fat, not long. I'm using a Dillon progressive, and taper crimping. The cartridges that are the problem are maybe 5% of a run of over a thousand rounds.

I did check my sizing die and the RCBS carbide die is screwed all the way down - will ponder the more expensive option of sizing 'through' - hadn't heard of that one. So.... thanks again for your help, am heading off to the range now with the Glock and will experiment with reloading some brass from it to see if that's part of the problem here.

[donkee]

You CAN chamber a 9mm round in a .38 S&W revolver. I'll bet you the poor old thing will KB on the first shot too and you'll be picking steel fragments out of your hide, if you're lucky......

[HSMITH]

jjohnson, pick up a Lee Factory Crimp die and use it to salvage this batch of ammo. Then put it AWAY, and forget you have it.

Don't bother casting the chamber of the GLock, there isn't anything wrong with it and your case guage proves that.

On your RCBS size die, you can either grind the bottom off close to the carbide ring or you can sell it and buy a Lee sizing die. I prefer the Undersize die available from Lee and EGW. Grinding the die will let the sizing ring get down low enough on the case to prevent this from happening again if you keep the RCBS. The Lee dies are made to go lower on the case right out of the package.

[The Bushmaster]

Mr. SMITH...jjohnson stated that his cases are sizing to .390. This is the average of my resized 9mm X 19 cases (.388-.392) using a Lee die. If he is acheiving the correct resized cases he does have a problem somewhere. Buying a new die or modifying the one he's got may not solve the problem.
According to my Lyman #48 load manual the case where he measured it is supposed to be .391 to begin with. He (we) need to find another solution here.:)

[StrikeEagle]

Agree on the Lee Factory Crimp Die. It will size the loaded round to where it certainly should chamber. It may salvage this particular batch, but you should really figure out what the real problem is rather than count on a slightly sketchy 'fix'.

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=557190

[WayneConrad]

FIRST - I said I tried to CHAMBER this ammo in .38 - I didn't try to SHOOT it.
I knew you knew this. I wanted to make it clear for any readers who might not know that safety rule. I just felt like being the nanny today, that's all.

[HSMITH]

Bushmaster, he specifically stated that they wouldn't case guage or chamber because they are too fat near the bottom in addition to the measurement. My experience has been that the RCBS die can leave a 'ring' of the case right above the rim that is oversized that prevents case gauging and chambering. Grinding that die took care of the problem, as did switching to a Lee die.

[gandog56]

Doesn't Glock tell you not to use reloads because the case is not fully supported in them?

[jjohnson]

Back again, guys. First, thanks again on the safety stuff - you're all right to be a little alarmed by my first post, and I'd rather hear the safety rules all over again than have somebody lose fingers becaue they didn't exercise caution.

There IS a little fat 'ring' around the bases of these cartridges that's the oversize problem. Conclusion so far is you guys are right - there is a problem here in fixing this bunch of rejects; there is also the 'root cause' to fix, which is something I haven't isolated yet. I'll keep a close eye on the next batch with a case gauge so I can work my way backwards through the process to find the problem, bearing in mind the advice you guys have come up with. I'll keep close watch on which dies are doing exactly what during the reloading process for the next 9mm batch.

Glock doesn't support cast lead reloads on their 'stock' pistols. They do not issue a safety warning - I interpret their statement as translating to "If your reloads don't work, DON'T call us to whine about it." Some folks sell aftermarket barrels with traditional cut rifling instead of polygonal bores for those of us that insist on loading cast lead bullets.

You guys have been a LOT of help - thanks again!

[Roadkill]

I've had the same problem. Resizing being careful to make sure the case went all the way in a full length die fixed most, also had to get another 9mm case holder. It was all used equip when I got it and was worn out. No Glock but I shoot 9mm in a Luger, couple of P38s, BHP, Radom, and a Ruger Blackhawk. Ruger has the tightest chamber of all of them. If I can fit them in the 9mm Ruger cylinder they defininitely will chamber in the others.

rk

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

jjohnson,

After re-reading the entire post and thinking about it. Here's some possibilities to investigate:

1. You have one pistol with a generous enough chamber that the cartridges firing in it have significant expansion, especially at the base. This brass is spread out enough that when you attempt to resize it with a standard die, the brass is not sized down enough and due to "springback" bulges out after resizing to the point it is again out of spec., though just barely. This gun is probably right at the outer limits of acceptability chamber wise. It may be your Glock, but it might be other pistols as well.

2. Your RCBS sizing die isn't sizing your most generously expanding cases enough. In this case, you need to get a full length resizing die that does. I also agree with HSmith you should try the Lee die. Why? Because it's the least expensive solution to the problem. Heck, you can buy the whole die set with size and FCD for around 24 bucks. If you buy it from midwayusa.com and don't like it, you can send it back within 90 days and get a "small base" type die from another manufacturer.

3. You might want to inspect your brass after cleaning and BEFORE reloading it, to see where your brass is to start with.

4. You might want to segregate out your brass from various pistols and compare all of it to one another dimension wise, keeping records, in order to determine if you have a situation such as described in number one above. That said, a barrel is a more expensive solution than a reloading die.

5. Finally, since it's an RCBS die, you can send the die, along with one of the problem cartridges to them and ask for some help. They'll likely send you a new die to resolve the problem, since their warranty service is at or above the quality of the Dilllon warranty service.

Just my .02,

Dave

[caz223]

I just measured one of my EGW U die sized cases, it sized down lightly less than 1/4" from the bottom, if the fat part of the case is below this, then the EGW undersize die prolly wouldn't help.
I really doubt that it wouldn't help because I've sized some junk, and it all fit in my barsto barrel just fine. I also have the RCBS and dillon dies, and I've had problems with the RCBS dies and lead bullets, that took months to figure out. In the meantime, I bought a LEE factory crimp die to cover up the symptoms. It worked OK for a time, but I realize that it was just a band aid.
I'm not entirely sure about the factory crimp die in 357SIG, since it's an entirely different design.

[RTC]

Just recently ran into same problem with some 357 mag R-P mixed brass. I started using a case gauge (Midway) some time ago due to some problems with 45 ACP brass. Out of 446 empty 357 cases I probably had about 150 or so that would not enter the case gauge all the way after resizing using a RCBS carbide sizing die that was set very close to touching the shellholder. Most of the resized brass in this batch would drop into the case gauge and I would simply up end it and the brass would drop out. The problem brass cases would stop at least 1/8" out of the gauge. Resizing again did not help. Sometimes a piece of brass would fall almost all the way into the gauge but stop short about a rim width. Usually resizing this brass a 2nd time would help the problem. Looking at the sizing end of the RCBS carbide die, it was obvious that it was radiused (sp?) so that insertion of the case into the die would be easier. I remembered an old Pacific die set in 38 Special (about 1971 time frame) that I have cursed over the years before because it has NO radius and will pinch the heck out of your finger trying to guide the brass into the die. I lubed the problem brass and ran the entire batch thru the Pacific die. After wiping off the lube (I use rubbing alcohol and an old dirty t-shirt) every one of the brass cases will now fall into the case gauge and drop out. Just my experience with your problem! Hope it helps!