Schools Ban Patriotic Clothes, Flags


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Desertdog
April 5, 2006, 03:53 PM
Why don't the school go to a school uniform, and then they can say what can be put on the uniform? Also, the kids wouldn't have to spend time trying to figure out what to wear to school, and not be able to have better clothes than anybody else. The uniform could designed so there would be no way for the students hide their firearms on themselves.

Schools Ban Patriotic Clothes, Flags
School Officials Say Move Is Temporary
http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/8439483/detail.html


SAN DIEGO -- In the wake of last week's immigration-reform protests, one school district is taking drastic measures, banning all symbols of patriotism, both U.S. and Mexican.


Beginning Monday, the Oceanside Unified School District is banning all flags and patriotic clothing. According to school officials, some students are using the garments and flags to taunt classmates.

Some critics of the move are calling it a violation of free speech protections guaranteed by the Constitution.

The American Civil Liberties Union points to the landmark Supreme Court case Tinker v. Des Moines. In that case, school officials attempted to stop students who were protesting the Viet Nam War from wearing black armbands.

"The school has to be able to show a strong likelihood that there is going to material and substantial disruption of school, and if they don’t meet that standard, then they can't censor student speech," said Kevin Neenan of the ACLU.

School officials in Oceanside now say that flags -- whether they are U.S. or Mexican or any other country's -- have now become a divider on campuses, saying that some students are using them to taunt other students

Keith Brentlinger displays the U.S. flag outside Hatter, Williams and Purdy, his Oceanside business.

"To me, it's everything," said Brentlinger "I mean, like I said -- we truly live in the greatest country in the world."

Brentlinger said he was shocked on Tuesday when marching immigration-reform protesters tore down the flag outside his business.

"Some of them just grabbed the flag, and pulled it off its aluminum pole, and it got ripped," said Brentlinger.

Brentlinger told NBC 7/39 that he put up a new flag the next day.

"Some protesters drove up in their car and snagged the flag from our building and took off," said Brentlinger. "I was extremely, extremely upset. I mean, it was just ... insulting is the word."

School officials are saying that the ban is just temporary and that they were just trying to prevent violence. They would not say how long the ban would be in effect.

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El Tejon
April 5, 2006, 03:54 PM
Whew! Good thing the students can still wear a USSR flag on their shirts.:eek:

Zero_DgZ
April 5, 2006, 03:55 PM
The tighter and tighter you squeeze a balloon, the more likely it will be to pop.

It's one thing to work to curb classism, ethnic disputes, and other disruptions in the classroom. It's another thing entirely to ban expression and free speech outright. I can see where they're coming from, but I disagree with it completely.

Once again, they're treating the symptom. Work on the underlying causes must be done, otherwise they'll be treating variants of the same symptoms forever.

Camp David
April 5, 2006, 03:57 PM
SAN DIEGO -- In the wake of last week's immigration-reform protests, one school district is taking drastic measures, banning all symbols of patriotism, both U.S. and Mexican.

The United States needs to divest itself of California fairly quickly...I'd be more happy with 49 patriotic democratic states than 50 socialist ones!

Zero_DgZ
April 5, 2006, 04:03 PM
Smartest thing I've heard all day.

engineer151515
April 5, 2006, 04:04 PM
Our schools banned patriotic clothes years ago with school uniforms. :barf:

If I wanted my kid to dress in uniform at public school, I would have moved to communist China.

R.H. Lee
April 5, 2006, 04:06 PM
The United States needs to divest itself of California fairly quickly...I'd be more happy with 49 patriotic democratic states than 50 socialist ones!
Sounds good to me. As the world's 7th largest economy, we'd do well without the economic drain of the other 49 states. No federal regulation or taxes; no incentive for illegals to come here for federal goodies. California as a sovereign independent country makes sense.

Fletchette
April 5, 2006, 04:08 PM
The United States needs to divest itself of California fairly quickly...I'd be more happy with 49 patriotic democratic states than 50 socialist ones!

You'd have to ditch Massachusetts, too!

BTW, isn't it a Colorado law that public schools MUST display the American flag? Shouldn't the principal by arrested, or do we get to ignore that law also?

Fletchette
April 5, 2006, 04:09 PM
Quote:
The United States needs to divest itself of California fairly quickly...I'd be more happy with 49 patriotic democratic states than 50 socialist ones!


Sounds good to me. As the world's 7th largest economy, we'd do well without the economic drain of the other 49 states. No federal regulation or taxes; no incentive for illegals to come here for federal goodies. California as a sovereign independent country makes sense.

Har. ********** would fall apart immediately because it doesn't have water.

MrTuffPaws
April 5, 2006, 04:09 PM
I like the idea of school uniforms. I even liked the idea of it when I was in school. Not to mention all of the money the parents would save if they did not have to buy their snotty nosed brat designer jeans.

Master Blaster
April 5, 2006, 04:12 PM
Our schools banned patriotic clothes years ago with school uniforms.
If I wanted my kid to dress in uniform at public school, I would have moved to communist China years ago.


I guess you wouldnt send your kids to Catholic School or to many private schools, which all have uniforms, or very strict dress codes which practically require a uniform. And they have had these uniforms for decades.:o

TexasRifleman
April 5, 2006, 04:13 PM
California as a sovereign independent country makes sense.

Yea, makes sense til your country needs electricity....... Not that California is a "drain" on the juice huh...... give me a break.

This is the reason that California is in the shape it's in. Folks in other states make a comment about how bad California has become. Rather than agree and work together to fight the problem, the citizens there just deny it is happening and pretend like everything is OK.

Is nice weather really worth that much to you?

R.H. Lee
April 5, 2006, 04:21 PM
Yea, makes sense til your country needs electricity....... Not that California is a "drain" on the juice huh...... give me a break. Well, we pay for it. At about 3x market value IIRC.

This is the reason that California is in the shape it's in. Folks in other states make a comment about how bad California has become. Rather than agree and work together to fight the problem, the citizens there just deny it is happening and pretend like everything is OK. California "bad"? Hardly-only in the minds of those who've probably never even been here. Our standard of living is really very high. And yes, the weather's great, too. :)

As far as 'working together to solve the problem', it's just a matter of time before your local schools adopt this kind of ban. But it's sooooo much easier just to bash CA, isn't it?

Fletchette
April 5, 2006, 04:25 PM
This is the reason that California is in the shape it's in. Folks in other states make a comment about how bad California has become. Rather than agree and work together to fight the problem, the citizens there just deny it is happening and pretend like everything is OK.

Exactly! I have a buddy who was forced to move to ********** (military). After a few months he was singing the "it ain't that bad here" tune. I think it is some sort of psychological defense mechanism. I had to start listing the things he used to be able to do in his former state that he could no longer do. Now, after spending several years in **********, he is completely ready to leave and go elsewhere.

Fletchette
April 5, 2006, 04:28 PM
R.H. Lee,

I do not wish to bash you or otherwise insult you indirectly by criticising your state, but California really does have large problems. Ignoring it doesn't help.

R.H. Lee
April 5, 2006, 04:29 PM
The entire country has large problems. Y'all aren't exempt no matter how much you'd like to believe. Things that start here spread elsewhere. Trashtalking CA won't protect you. You can run but you can't hide.

tyme
April 5, 2006, 04:57 PM
According to school officials, some students are using the garments and flags to taunt classmates.
In other news, some students use words to taunt classmates. School officials are considering putting duct tape over students' mouths when they arrive in the morning.

Phetro
April 5, 2006, 04:58 PM
The United States needs to divest itself of California fairly quickly...I'd be more happy with 49 patriotic democratic states than 50 socialist ones!

DEMOCRATIC? You want democracy, go live in a socialist nation. THAT'S what democracy is: tyranny by majority rule. American government was created on the system of a CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC. NOT a democracy.

The "democracy" misconception is so widespread now--thanks to the media and politicians (on both sides of the aisle, of course) pretending it's true--that even people on otherwise right-thinking sites like THR have fallen for it?!

This is too much. This has to be stopped and corrected.

Camp David
April 5, 2006, 05:02 PM
...but California really does have large problems...

Every state has "problems" but few exhibit such anti-American sentiment as California... this school's ban on patriotism is just the latest stunt in California's ongoing crusade against America. If California cannot keep its school district's in line, perhaps Federal control is necessary. Barring that, I suggested that this nation would be better off, economically speaking, if it shed itself of the burden of California on its resources. I further suggest that each state has a responsibility to be America first and state second, or at least pay strong tribute to its role as a state in a larger union via patriotism and respect. If California cannot do that, we should divest this nation of California, to the benefit of 49 other states.

Recall that the City of San Diego and the City of San Francisco have slandered our military at least six times in the last month via ordnance; other California cities are following suit...


Keep your radical school districts and leftists sentiment in check is all that is being asked! I mean: "banning patriotism"? Are you really being an advocate for that?

Delmar
April 5, 2006, 05:12 PM
My going away present from uncle sugar. You're kicking me out of school for ???

TexasRifleman
April 5, 2006, 05:56 PM
it's just a matter of time before your local schools adopt this kind of ban. But it's sooooo much easier just to bash CA, isn't it?

Things that start here spread elsewhere. Trashtalking CA won't protect you. You can run but you can't hide.

The story that "so goes California goes the rest of the country" only applies to rap music and fashion.

It just doesn't happen that way. Give me one major repressive thing that California started that moved into the rest of the country.

That may have been the case decades ago but it seems Florida has taken the drivers seat.

As goes Florida, so goes the rest of the country:

Concealed Carry
"Stand Your Ground" laws
Eminent Domain protections
Gun confiscation limits on the government during emergencies

From Florida to the majority of the US.

Sorry California, you just are not as relevant as you think you are.

As for "bashing", what else would you have us do? You have opportunity after opportunity to fight all of the repressive things your state gov't does, but you don't, you just sit and take it. It's not bashing, it's surprise and pity we feel for the citizens of California.

You recently had THE perfect case to lobby for concealed carry, almost identical to the case that got CCW in Texas and other states. Did you do anything about it? Nope. Not a peep. Not even an attempt.

There are more important things in life than nice weather.

torpid
April 5, 2006, 06:02 PM
It just doesn't happen that way. Give me one major repressive thing that California started that moved into the rest of the country.

Smoking bans.

What do I win? :D

crazed_ss
April 5, 2006, 06:07 PM
Recall that the City of San Diego and the City of San Francisco have slandered our military at least six times in the last month via ordnance; other California cities are following suit...

SF is like it's own city-state.
What has SD done to slander the military though, I dont recall anything in the news?

IMO, The school's regulations make sense. It's their responsibility to keep kids safe.

Phetro
April 5, 2006, 06:13 PM
It just doesn't happen that way. Give me one major repressive thing that California started that moved into the rest of the country.

Smoking bans.

What do I win?

Great point! Smoking bans are the scourge of the do-gooders who do no good. What will they do when lung cancer-related deaths don't drop? Blame it on something else, and then ban that too.

Phetro
April 5, 2006, 06:18 PM
...they should be banning the display of MEXICAN flags in America, no doubt about it. It's as unpatriotic and anti-American an act as one can imagine, and should not be tolerated. If Mexico is something to be proud of:

1. Why did they come here? Going to lots of trouble to get here, I might add...
2. Why don't they go back?

Banning the display of an American flag in America is treasonous, however. The USA is our nation, which we must defend and respect above--and to the exclusion of if necessary--all others.

crazed_ss
April 5, 2006, 06:21 PM
they should be banning the display of MEXICAN flags in America, no doubt about it. It's as unpatriotic and anti-American an act as one can imagine, and should not be tolerated. If Mexico is something to be proud of

:uhoh:

Funny and 2nd Amendmant Supporters are often not supports of the 1st Amendmant.

TexasRifleman
April 5, 2006, 06:38 PM
Smoking bans.

What do I win?

Nothing. California didn't start that. Those go way way back.
And, in Texas at least, where that was tried it was quickly overturned except for Austin, which is more like San Fran anyway.


they should be banning the display of MEXICAN flags in America, no doubt about it. It's as unpatriotic and anti-American an act as one can imagine, and should not be tolerated.

:what: That's just a nutty suggestion. There should be no law against display of a nations flag, but there are rules that already exist for the PROPER display of other nations flags as well as the US flag. Those rules should be followed.

torpid
April 5, 2006, 06:42 PM
Nothing. California didn't start that. Those go way way back.

Hmmm, way back, eh?
Please elaborate if you're going to try and deny me my exciting prize.


.

KriegHund
April 5, 2006, 06:47 PM
I hope this thread is not locked. As far as i can tell its got plenty to do with civil liberties.

In the wake of last week's immigration-reform protests, one school district is taking drastic measures, banning all symbols of patriotism, both U.S. and Mexican.

That made my jaw drop.

Looks like the reconquistas have won. We now cannot show our national flag because some idiot finds it offensive. Well guess what? If ind it offensive that i cant be patriotic. Oh, wait, that doesnt matter because im a white male. My issues come in 3rd next to minorities and women. I thought this country was a place were we are all CREATED EQUAL.

i dont think smoking bans are a valid point- smoke is an extreme physical irritant to some and second hand smoke causes cancer.

However i do thinks its foolishness to FORCE businesse's to ban smoking.

TexasRifleman
April 5, 2006, 06:51 PM
Hmmm, way back, eh?
Please elaborate if you're going to try and deny me my exciting prize.

Dunno. The Feds started it on airplanes back in the 70's. When did it start in California?

Oh, Wikipedia has this, for what it's worth :evil:

Pope Urban VII's short papal reign gave way to the world's first known public smoking ban (1590), as he threatened to excommunicate anyone who "took tobacco in the porchway of or inside a church, whether it be by chewing it, smoking it with a pipe or sniffing it in powdered form through the nose."

crazed_ss
April 5, 2006, 06:51 PM
What does white male have to do with anything?

And you guys get mad when people like McKinney pull the race card.

Desertdog
April 5, 2006, 06:53 PM
My USA flag will be flying when the weather gets better. May 1st, it will be flying, no matter what!
What they forbid at school, we CAN do at home. I also have a flag on our cars. Wifey would have a fit if I got a Rebal Flag and put it on the car.

ArmedBear
April 5, 2006, 06:57 PM
Problem with the Rebel Flag is that it's been used too much by the Klan. It will certainly not do anything to remind people "on the fence" of their love for America.

Yes, I understand that it has entirely different meanings to most people who display it, but you're trying to make a statement here, so you want your message to be clear and difficult to hijack. The LAST thing you want is to give more ammunition to those who claim that people who favor border enforcement and reform of legal immigration laws and processes are just a bunch of racists.

An American flag will do quite nicely.

longhorngunman
April 5, 2006, 06:59 PM
I actually feel sorry for most Californians. It would be a conservative state if it wasn't for the cesspool sewers that are LA and San Francisco. Kinda like the crap that Northern New Yorkers have to put up with because of NY city.

engineer151515
April 5, 2006, 07:00 PM
I like the idea of school uniforms. I even liked the idea of it when I was in school. Not to mention all of the money the parents would save if they did not have to buy their snotty nosed brat designer jeans.

That's the problem as I see it. I didn't buy my kids designer clothes for school (pre-uniform) but I heard many parents say their kids would fight over clothes worn to school. Who's in charge? If the parents did their job, there would be no arguement. (I guess you can tell that I had this debate with a teacher once or twice). When reasons for school uniforms included "security", then I suggested the teachers should also wear uniforms that identified them with the particular school. THAT made me REAL popular. :rolleyes:

I guess you wouldnt send your kids to Catholic School or to many private schools, which all have uniforms, or very strict dress codes which practically require a uniform.

I think private schools can do what they want. My complaint is related only to public schools. (Secret confession, I which I HAD sent my kids to private school. I think they would have received a better education. I just couldn't afford the money at the time).


The "uniform" arguement never held water with me with respect to school security, it will cost less (not true - you end up buying two sets of clothes) or political correctness "everybody is equal" (designer labels show up on uniforms too defeating that purpose. Money has a way of "showing off") The only basis I could not argue with was the abuse of the school's dress code. Kids were wearing such revealing clothing that a basic dress code and common sense was no longer enough for enforcement. Again, it was the parents that allowed this behavior. The school went to uniforms. But I thought it was unfair to the (majority of) kids and still believe that.

My apologies for thread drift.

BTW - note the power of the school district. Banning the American Flag. ???
It can be a real challange when you are on the receiving end of an abuse of that power.

torpid
April 5, 2006, 07:07 PM
TexasSIGman-

Yes, but when looking at political trends currently sweeping the nation/world, it really was when San Luis Obispo, CA became the first city in the world to ban smoking in all public buildings including bars and restaurants that was the real first domino in the smoking ban saga.

Prize me, sir!
:D

KriegHund
April 5, 2006, 07:15 PM
What does white male have to do with anything?

And you guys get mad when people like McKinney pull the race card.

A few hispanics are insulted when an american flag is used against them, so all flags are banned.

I'm willing to doubt that if a mexican flag was used to insult a white man, then there would be no problems whatsoever with hispanics 'asserting their nationaility'

The point was that minorities issues are given top priority, no matter if it is an issue or not.
And while there are certainly very, very few minorities that use their minority status in this way (or any such way), it is what it is.

Pulling a race card is using ones race to defend a wrongdoing...i dont see that here.

crazed_ss
April 5, 2006, 07:24 PM
A few hispanics are insulted when an american flag is used against them, so all flags are banned

That is not the case here. Tensions were running high with all the demonstrations and such.. Think of it like this.. Flags were causing issues like those caused when rival gangs wear different gang colors around each other. The schools responsibility is to provide a safe enviroment for students. If kids are gonna fight each other over Mexican and American flags, then wouldnt a prudent measure be to get rid of flags until things calm down?

And the issue I have with your "white male" comment is you're making this out to be an Hispanics vs Americans issue and acting like being "White Male" is the representative of this being American. Im American.. Im not a white male. I'm a former Marine and I'm highly offended by these kids tearing down that store owner's flag. If this is a Hispanics vs Whites issue, then where does that leave the rest of Americans? Where does that leave me?

Delmar
April 5, 2006, 07:32 PM
Taking the flags away is not going to solve the problem any more than taking guns away is going to solve the problem.

The problem is some students are acting badly. They should be arrested and hauled into court for acting like the punks they are.

This blaming the flag garbage is bull-snot to the nth degree. Gee, what if the issue was over students beating other students with their books? Gonna ban them too?

The biggest problem is not really the students-its the people in charge who are either too lazy or stupid to take charge. Period.

KriegHund
April 5, 2006, 07:37 PM
That is not the case here. Tensions were running high with all the demonstrations and such.. Think of it like this.. Flags were causing issues like those caused when rival gangs wear different gang colors around each other. The schools responsibility is to provide a safe enviroment for students. If kids are gonna fight each other over Mexican and American flags, then wouldnt a prudent measure be to get rid of flags until things calm down?

No. It would be a prudent measure to severly punish those who mis-use the flag.

And the issue I have with your "white male" comment is you're making this out to be an Hispanics vs Americans issue and acting like being "White Male" is the representative of this being American. Im American.. Im not a white male. I'm a former Marine and I'm highly offended by these kids tearing down that store owner's flag. If this is a Hispanics vs Whites issue, then where does that leave the rest of Americans? Where does that leave me?

Read the rest of my post-

The point was that minorities issues are given top priority, no matter if it is an issue or not.
And while there are certainly very, very few minorities that use their minority status in this way (or any such way), it is what it is.

This isnt a Hpsanics vs americans issue, or at least thats not what i was getting at. What i was getting at was that "Some are more equal than others."

Americans are every freedom loving man and woman in America. Thats why things like 'african-american' and 'mexican-american' bug me and i dont use em anymore. Your either american or your not.

crazed_ss
April 5, 2006, 07:48 PM
I dont see how anyone is more equal than anyone else in this situation.
Just seems like a safety issue to me. Schools often limit what kids can wear at school. My school didnt allow us to wear hats or sports jerseys because of problems with gangs. I see the same thing going on here with the flag issue. The school is simply getting rid of something that might disrupt the learning enviroment. It's sad that it's come to banning flags though.. I dunno.

bigun15
April 5, 2006, 07:51 PM
I like the idea of school uniforms. I even liked the idea of it when I was in school. Not to mention all of the money the parents would save if they did not have to buy their snotty nosed brat designer jeans.

So let me get this straight
-You liked it when you were a kid, so all of us should do it now
-All of us are snotty nosed brats
-You want to tell us what to do when you won't even have to go through with it

Sounds great.

Allow me to let you in on a little hint: We want to choose what we want to wear, the same way you choose what you wear every day.

KriegHund
April 5, 2006, 08:24 PM
Just seems like a safety issue to me. Schools often limit what kids can wear at school. My school didnt allow us to wear hats or sports jerseys because of problems with gangs. I see the same thing going on here with the flag issue. The school is simply getting rid of something that might disrupt the learning enviroment. It's sad that it's come to banning flags though.. I dunno.

Funny how that came from someone who just said this...

Funny and 2nd Amendmant Supporters are often not supports of the 1st Amendmant.

But to focus on the point-

I dont see how anyone is more equal than anyone else in this situation.

Me saying "Some are more equal than others" was based on my theory (though it is often proven every day) that if a person of a certain minority insulted a person not of a minority, it would not be considered nearly as much as an issue as if a person not of a minority insulted a person of a minority.

Akin to it being OK to call someone "Cracker", but it not being OK to use some racially charged word directed at and being deragatory of someone with a skin color other than of a lightish sort.

*Edit*
Im not saying its OK to be rascist, rather i am pointing out thats its more acceptable for some people to be rascist than others. We should all be held to the same equal standards of good conduct. In society as a whole, we are not held to the same standards.

garyk/nm
April 5, 2006, 08:39 PM
As long as they don't ban the flying of the American flag on the school flagpole, it's just a matter of safety. If they ban the flagpole thing, then it's time to take action. Who really cares what kids wear to school?

Ira Aten
April 5, 2006, 08:54 PM
CEASE YOUR ATTEMPTS TO REASON WITH THE NUT BALLS THERE.

STEP AWAY FROM THE STATE LINE, AND WALK TOWARD THE SOUND OF MY VOICE! :)

KriegHund
April 5, 2006, 09:00 PM
Does not the education of liberty, for or against, start at an early age?

If we were to force all students from pre-school up to wear uniforms, would they not be brought up thinking that such restrictions are natural?

Who cares? Well you sure the hell should! Do you want every youth in America growing up thinking its just fine and dandy for the governement to regulate what they do, how they dress, and how they act?

If you so value your liberties, then you will promote them, everywhere, anywhere. For to restrict them anywhere on anyone is to restrict them everywhere on everyone.

R.H. Lee
April 5, 2006, 09:09 PM
TexasSIGman: Nothing. California didn't start that. Those go way way back. andDunno. The Feds started it on airplanes back in the 70's. When did it start in California? The first citywide indoor smoking ban was passed by the San Luis Obispo, California city council around 1990. Sheesh. Give it a break. This thread is not about California. It's about a clothing ban coming from a school district that happens to be in California. I'd wager most school districts/boards across the country are as out of control and wacked out as any you'll find here. Let's lay off the ad hominem California bashing and deal with the pc/control freak mentality which infests this country at large, ok?

DRZinn
April 5, 2006, 09:26 PM
I live very close to Oceanside. I'll be dropping by a school tomorrow.

With a flag.

torpid
April 5, 2006, 09:28 PM
A school approved clear cellophane flag?

;)

DRZinn
April 5, 2006, 09:40 PM
Probably one on a T-shirt, in case of - er - difficulties.

mp510
April 5, 2006, 09:59 PM
It makes me sick, that these people have the audacity to betray their country.
Here is their contact info, if you opt to write them in a respectable manner, as I did, they may feel the heat. Interestingly, I could not find any information on their website regarding the issue. Interestingly, it seems to directly violate their official policies. I am going to post any response that I get.

Contact Information
Office of the Superintendent
Parent Support & Board Services
(619) 725-5525 - Phone
superintendent@sandi.net - Email
TOP


KriegHund- Second hand smoke poses a cancer threat equivelent to that of eating grilled food, according to a John Stossel report from 20/20 (I believe that episode aired around July 2005).

ArmedBear- The Confederate Battle Flag was not the KKK's primary banner. Interestingly, they often carried American Flags on their marches.

Revolver Justice
April 5, 2006, 10:21 PM
This is the real flag for Americans who hold to the ideals of America before the days of the "imperial empire" that rules us peons from the ivory towers of Wasington, DC.

Sindawe
April 5, 2006, 10:33 PM
Revolver Justice: I think you may need to go back a bit further in history for that.

Winston
April 5, 2006, 11:52 PM
Let 'em try and ban this.

In Cupertino California a school actually tried to ban the reading of the Declaration of Indepence. I'll let you guess why

http://www.ics.uci.edu/~pazzani/2002/IwaJima.jpg

longeyes
April 5, 2006, 11:57 PM
Just seems like a safety issue to me. Schools often limit what kids can wear at school. My school didnt allow us to wear hats or sports jerseys because of problems with gangs. I see the same thing going on here with the flag issue. The school is simply getting rid of something that might disrupt the learning enviroment.

The United States flag is not a display of gang colors, and We the People are not gangstas.

Learning environment? You mean the indoctrination environment, don't you? What can kids learn from a display of political correctness and cowardice? The schooltenders are afraid of the alien thugs in their midst, of mobs--that's the truth. This is how societies die, by fouling their pants.

All of this is utterly reprehensible, and I predict it won't be tolerated.

ken grant
April 6, 2006, 12:00 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.ksfo560.com/Article.asp?PT=&id=111884 :cuss: :fire:

KriegHund
April 6, 2006, 12:14 AM
I keep meaning to get one of those "Dont tread on me!" flags.

We shoulda stuck with it, IMO.

STW
April 6, 2006, 12:38 AM
I've a good friend on the O'side school board. I know for a fact she has no anti-US agenda. Nor do any of the teachers I know in the district. Keep in mind that many of the kids on Camp Pendleton attend O'side schools. Race based gangs Black/ Samoan/ Mexican are some of their lessor problems. This is from the local paper - The North County Times.



OCEANSIDE ---- Oceanside Unified School District officials said they were inundated with phone calls Tuesday by angry people who believed incorrectly that the district had taken down all of its American flags as part of a ban to quell immigration-related protests.

The district has temporarily banned individual flags brought to campus by students, but the ban does not apply to the district's American flags already on campus on flagpoles and in classrooms, officials said Tuesday.

The ban went into effect Monday, the first day back to school after the district closed its middle and high school campuses for two days last week in the wake of student protests against proposed federal legislation that would make it a felony to migrate to the United States illegally.


District Superintendent Ken Noonan said the decision to stop students from bringing flags to school was all about keeping children safe on campus.

"Kids who've never carried a flag to school in their lives were carrying flags to school just to make things boil," Noonan said. "We (banned individual flags) this week to reduce the tension and keep the passions down."

District spokeswoman Laura Chalkley and other officials said the district's phone lines were ringing nonstop Tuesday, when the district fielded calls from concerned parents, news organizations nationwide and community members who were under the incorrect impression that the district had banned all flags on campuses, even the large ones that wave prominently in front of its schools.

"Some parents are under the impression that we don't have flags in our classrooms and on our campuses," Chalkley said. "That's been a major misconception. There are flags on campuses and students are still saying the Pledge (of Allegiance) every morning."

Noonan said another major concern expressed by callers and news organizations was that students' civil liberties had been violated because they could not exercise their right to free speech by carrying a flag.

"One of the first things we did (before instituting the ban) was call our attorney," Noonan said. "We were told that we can put some limitations if there is an outstanding reason to do that. This was to create an aura of safety on campus. I think it's calmed things down."

The district's attorney, Dan Shinoff, said he spoke to Oceanside school district officials last week and believes that prohibiting students from bringing flags to campuses is constitutional and appropriate "during the instructional time and anything that would be disruptive to the educational process."

The district's decision cannot be based on the substance of protests, but on violence or threats of violence associated with it, Shinoff said.

"I think as a result of the events of last week, it required the district to be extra vigilant, and the school chose to be on the side of being preventative," Shinoff said.

The focus of the district's decision-making was whether students were at risk, Shinoff said.

"From a school standpoint, the issue is one of articulated potential threats of violence," Shinoff said. "They used their best judgment."

Noonan said he hoped the district can lift the ban on students bringing individual flags ---- American, Mexican, and those of any other countries ---- and "patriotic clothing" to campus by next week.

Meanwhile, American flags were unfurled on campus flagpoles Tuesday throughout the district's campuses and students still recited the Pledge of Allegiance, as they always do. And Tuesday was like any other school day, according to district officials, campus administrators and students interviewed after school.

On Monday, however, two students at El Camino High got into a fight over the immigration issue, according to Chalkley. One student was injured, but since no weapons were used the fight was not reported to police, she said. It is not uncommon for fights to occur on high school campuses, she added.

Chalkley said Monday's fight at El Camino was proof that things could still get heated on campuses.

"The flags were being used to elevate the level of conflicts between students and the feelings are still there," she said. "We need to be cautious. We need to keep the emotions down."

El Camino Principal Dan Daris said Tuesday was calm.

"(Monday) we had an extra (police) officer on campus," he said. "Today, everybody has been doing what they are supposed to be doing."

Oceanside High senior Stacie Garvin, 17, was walking home from school with friends Tuesday afternoon and said campus life was back to normal after last week's protests and demonstrations. She said it's probably a good idea to keep the flags out of students' hands for now.

"Bringing flags to school was never a big deal before," she said. "And now people were just using them to start fights. For the time being, (the ban) is a good idea."

Another Oceanside High senior, Elizabeth Mendez, 17, said she was glad things have been calm. "Some people didn't even know what they were protesting."

Fletchette
April 6, 2006, 02:41 AM
It just doesn't happen that way. Give me one major repressive thing that California started that moved into the rest of the country.

The "Assault Weapons" Bans. It started in ********** after the schoolyard killings in Stockton.

pax
April 6, 2006, 02:45 AM
STW ~

Don't post facts! Facts are really annoying, and get in the way of soul-satisfying rants!

:rolleyes:

:D

pax

sm
April 6, 2006, 03:45 AM
I have a plan.

My state ...oh nevermind. Like I said, I gotta plan.

Ban Public Schools.

Instead of wasting all this money on legalese, schoolbuses and the monies for fuel , upkeep and maintanence of schoolbuses, parents worried how kids are dressed for school , be it just regular clothes, or uniforms ( which I am against to keep shorts getting wadded ) , guns, knives , pink petunia day or whatever else Public Schools whine about...

All that money saved. Now every kid gets internet connection and a computer.
Classes are online.

Teachers can use the school bldg as a central point to conduct these online classes, and if need the students come in for hands on labs or hands on exams. One bldg can handle more students much like a College Campus does.

Yes I know the political machine, lawyers, and whiney butts won't like it. I mean it will cut down on the amount of graft that goes on...cut down on the amount of Indoctrination that goes on for Tyranny agendas...

Still - the reality is the focus should be on Education, too much money earmarked for kids getting educational resources - gets used for other things.

Society is getting more and more Global , and the Computer and Internet is going to more of a part of everyday life than they already are.

Maybe some families will not have to have both adults working full time jobs to pay for the taxes that generate the monies that do not go to the kids education...that misuse of monies, legalese again.

So the kid gets an education, an adult is more involved in the kids education and can shape the kids values more in line to theirs instead of Gov't Indoctrination.

Who cares if little Johnny or Susie are in jammies learing how to read with a Scooby-Do miniture flag on the computer desk...I don't , beats the hell out of State Uniform codes and learning to do boot step marches to the beat of Indoctrination while worried about that # 2 pencil with a Flag from the hardware store in pencil bag.

I have taken semesters of nothing but online classes.

I was CCW-ing , and had gun books, loaded mags, and piddled with shotshells, Silly Putty, firearm parts and who knows what else and perused this site , while participating in Online class discussions. Who knew - Who cared?

Heck a lot of my current on Campus Class material is taken from and submitted via Online learning resource tools such as WebCT or Moodle.

Kids may as well get real world exposure - will be doing it anyway.

Private, Parochial schools have uniforms for a different reason.

Ban Public Schools I say.


Steve

DRZinn
April 6, 2006, 09:25 AM
Well, until we can eleiminate government subsidies altogether, you've hit on a near-perfect plan.

TexasRifleman
April 6, 2006, 10:06 AM
Prize me, sir!


OK, you win. Your prize is we will allow you to emigrate to Texas :evil:

Art Eatman
April 6, 2006, 03:41 PM
I'd worry a lot more about a kid graduating from high school and being able to read his fershlugginer diploma, read a ruler and make change than whether or not he had some "right" to be involved in anything political whatsoever.

No teenybopper ever had an original thought beyond continuation of the species, and that thought has not been "original" for a long, long time. They're in school to learn, not try to tell the rest of their classmates what to do, what to think--much less the grownups.

The school gets an "A" on this one...

Art

Creeping Incrementalism
April 7, 2006, 12:46 PM
DEMOCRATIC? You want democracy, go live in a socialist nation. THAT'S what democracy is: tyranny by majority rule. American government was created on the system of a CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC. NOT a democracy.

The "democracy" misconception is so widespread now--thanks to the media and politicians (on both sides of the aisle, of course) pretending it's true--that even people on otherwise right-thinking sites like THR have fallen for it?!

This is too much. This has to be stopped and corrected.

Phetro, the misconception that is being spread is that America is not a democracy. You are confusing the more general term "democracy" with the specific term "direct democracy." Consitutional republics and direct democracies are both types of democracies.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=democracyde·moc·ra·cy ( P ) Pronunciation Key (d-mkr-s)
n. pl. de·moc·ra·cies
Government by the people, exercised either directly or through elected representatives.

Creeping Incrementalism
April 7, 2006, 01:20 PM
The story that "so goes California goes the rest of the country" only applies to rap music and fashion.

It just doesn't happen that way. Give me one major repressive thing that California started that moved into the rest of the country.

Other than smoking bans and assault weapon laws, there's the 50 BMG ban (not law anywhere else but getting close) and "clean fuel" that do virtually nothing to fight pollution, and make up poor by costing twice as much.

As for "bashing", what else would you have us do? You have opportunity after opportunity to fight all of the repressive things your state gov't does, but you don't, you just sit and take it. It's not bashing, it's surprise and pity we feel for the citizens of California.

You have no idea what you are talking about. We do fight, and harder than people in most states. What other state has a gay pro-RKBA group? We are just too outnumbered here.

Personally, I am a member of NRA (EZPay life), GOA (life), GOC, CRPA, and 2AF, I send out lots of letters every legislative session, always vote and always vote for RKBA candidates. I am (indirectly) involved in a lawsuit over an AR of mine that was seized along with 218 others last January by the Cal DOJ.

You recently had THE perfect case to lobby for concealed carry, almost identical to the case that got CCW in Texas and other states. Did you do anything about it? Nope. Not a peep. Not even an attempt.

The only reason the Luby's case in Texas was big was because a woman who lost both parents left her gun in her car and was outspoken about it. The chances of that happening is small.

The "divide and conquer" tactics of the antis are working well here.

Regarding divorcing California from the USA, economically that would be a big loss for the USA. We send out far more tax dollars than we let in. The rest of the country gets cheap fruits and nuts, we get to live with the illegal immigrants. Sierra bullets started in CA. We use our own water, and pay more for out of state electricity so the utilities don't have to charge you more...

roo_ster
April 7, 2006, 01:40 PM
Allow me to let you in on a little hint: We want to choose what we want to wear, the same way you choose what you wear every day.
Uh, my place of work has standards as to what is allowable. Our "uniform" is essentially business casual with more formal business garb also deemed suitable. The only folks who get to dress down are those who expect to do some manual labor. Even then, norm-bending garb is not allowed.

Get used to wearing garb dictated by your employer, unless you are a business OWNER. Then you'll be even more constrained, as you will wear whatever will make your customers happy.

Welcome to the real world.

Chrontius
April 8, 2006, 02:25 AM
I like the idea of school uniforms. I even liked the idea of it when I was in school. Not to mention all of the money the parents would save if they did not have to buy their snotty nosed brat designer jeans.

I call BS. Went to a Lutheran school for two years (worst years of my education, probably aggervated-assaulted twice, didn't expect to survive one of 'em :what: ) and they used uniforms. At like five times market value for clothes, they were so uncomfortable and poorly made (they itched 'til they just hurt) to be nigh to unwearable.

The wealthier kids (tuition kept us on a tight budget; that place was steep!) wore Tommy Hilfiger and/or whatever was popular at the time. I didn't know, nor care, nor do I now. And most importantly, they were all still pricks.

Robert Hairless
April 8, 2006, 04:06 AM
Great point! Smoking bans are the scourge of the do-gooders who do no good. What will they do when lung cancer-related deaths don't drop? Blame it on something else, and then ban that too.

Don't be too hard on people who insist upon laws that make it illegal to smoke. Bans like those are for our own good even for those people who don't agree.

Smoking is bad and we must stop people from doing it.

Driving a car without everyone being fastened into it by seatbelts is bad and we must stop people from doing it.

Being overweight is bad and we must stop people from doing it.

Driving over 55 miles per hour is bad and we must stop people from doing it; or, driving over 70 miles per hour is bad and we must stop people from doing it. You choose.

Drinking on Sundays is bad and we must stop people from doing it.

Not mowing your lawn is bad and we must stop people from doing it.

Disciplining children is bad and we must stop people from doing it.

Self-defense is bad and we must stop people from doing it.

Owning firearms is bad and we must stop people from doing it.

There are some principles here. One is that it's all right to control other people's behavior. In fact it's more than all right: it's essential to having a perfect society. Another principle is that it's possible to create laws that control other people's behavior. A good way to do it is to claim that any behavior we don't like is really a public health issue. Get enough physicians to support whatever controls you want to impose on other people and it's certain to become a law.

Robert Hairless
April 8, 2006, 04:12 AM
Why don't they go back?

If the United States gets rid of all peoples who came here from foreign countries it will be possible for the buffalo to roam freely again. Dinosaurs too, I think.

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