Best type of ammo for SAR1.


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V4Vendetta
April 5, 2006, 03:58 PM
I was wondering what is the best type of 7.62.39mm ammo for defense? SP's, JHP's, HP's, etc.

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AndyC
April 5, 2006, 05:00 PM
Depends on what you'll be shooting at (soft or hard targets), but whatever cycles most reliably in the rifle has the highest priority after which relative accuracy is the next (for me, anyway - others may differ). I tend to stick with FMJ's for semi-autos.

Don't Tread On Me
April 5, 2006, 05:12 PM
HP's on 7.62x39's do not expand. At least not in humans. Soft points may, but some people report feeding problems with those.

There are even some instances (although very rare) of some AK's not liking HP ammo at all. They don't feed well due to a ridge they hang up on. This is very rare though.

Stick with FMJ's. They are plenty effective. This is a centerfire rifle after all. If this were a pistol, I'd say HP for sure, but in a rifle, you have over 95% of the effectiveness you'll need.

clange
April 6, 2006, 03:17 AM
US made soft points are the only reliable expanding 7.62x39 ammo. Well, some claim some russian stuff expanded well, but it wasnt wolf or barnaul and I dont know the name, much less if you can even still get it.

So yeah, US made soft point, but you're going to pay a lot for it.

MTMilitiaman
April 6, 2006, 03:54 AM
Wolf FMJs are modeled after the Yugo M67 ball round, which has a large air pocket in the forward 1/3 of the length of the projectile to facilitate rapid yawing in soft tissue--often within the first 9 cm of ballistic geletin. While results in tissue will be less predictable, the one case I was witness was a small deer that took a double lung hit from an SKS. Judging from the shape of the exit wound, which was through the shoulder and rather dramatic, I believe it exitted sideways. At any rate, even if it doesn't yaw, you still have a .31 caliber projectile. The Wolf HPs reportedly perform similar to the FMJs, but I haven't done much testing myself to confirm this. Either should be fine.

The rifle is an outstanding choice for self-defense. IMO better even than the shotgun and certainly better than the pistol. But you will get more penetration than pistols or shotguns, which will be a concern in a residential neighborhood, but not as much IMO as self-preservation and the risk of under penetration.

Your other option is the Winchester soft points, which have an excellent record for terminal performance. Most claim it performs about like Winchester's .30-30 load, which has been reliably killing game for the better part of the last century, if not longer.

In any case, I would function test before I trust it for self defense.

V4Vendetta
April 6, 2006, 10:47 AM
Is 7.62.39 ammuntion expensive? I can't buy it off the internet however my local walmart has 40 Winchester rounds for $20. Is that a good deal?:confused:

jobu07
April 6, 2006, 11:21 AM
$20 for 40 rounds isn't a screaming deal for any 7.62x39 ammo. However, if that's teh fancy shmacny Winchester premium hunting ammo 7.62x39, and you plan on buying a couple of boxes to load a mag or two with and keep'em loaded for home defense. Well, that's not such a bad deal then. People pay a premium for self defense ammo for handguns and shotguns, why not a comblock rifle? Just stick to Wolf FMJ for target practice. Your wallet will thank you! ;)

V4Vendetta
April 6, 2006, 12:11 PM
My local Wally world doesn't carry Wolf. I don't know who does except www.cheaperthandirt.com & www.sportsmansguide.com & they won't sell to me because I'm under 21 which is dumb because you only have to be 18 to buy long guns & ammo for them in my state.:mad: I'm going to contact a gunshop nearby & ask them if they carry it. If they don't, I'm in trouble unless I win the lottery.:(

jobu07
April 6, 2006, 12:14 PM
Yeah, your local dealer may be able to order a case of Wolf for you. Another approach might be to scope out the gun show scene. Spring is a great time of the year for shows.

V4Vendetta
April 6, 2006, 12:25 PM
The only gunshow nearby won't be until July 14. I plan to go but that's quite far away.

I just called one dealer I know. He has a few boxes of some russian ammo for sale but it's NOT Wolf. 15 rounds for $3. What do you guys think?

Gewehr98
April 6, 2006, 01:23 PM
As found at www.cheaperthandirt.com if you don't have a local store:

http://mauser98.com/win311ammo.jpg

V4Vendetta
April 6, 2006, 01:48 PM
Gewer, that's a beautiful picture. But I can't buy from "cheaper than dirt" for a few more years.

Nick1911
April 6, 2006, 03:28 PM
Ammunitionstore.com will sell to you at 18 yr's old for rifle ammo.

V4Vendetta
April 6, 2006, 04:00 PM
I don't think so Nick but thanks anyway. I read the FAQ from ammunitionstore.com & it didn't sit well with me for some reason.:uhoh:

Nick1911
April 6, 2006, 04:11 PM
?

Many people from this board have ordered from them without problem. I personally haven't been so lucky, however what do you see that that makes you --> :uhoh: ?

V4Vendetta
April 6, 2006, 04:37 PM
I read a part of the agreement that states if they ship me the wrong ammo, I can only return it if it's unopened.* If I don't open it, how do I know if it's right?:uhoh: I try hard to keep my word so I read agreements carefully.


*number 6.

hso
April 6, 2006, 05:03 PM
I read a part of the agreement that states if they ship me the wrong ammo, I can only return it if it's unopened.* If I don't open it, how do I know if it's right?
Read what's on the boxes that you get. Opening the shipping package is not opening the ammo boxes. How else would you be expected to know they sent the wrong thing???

Nick1911
April 6, 2006, 05:25 PM
I read a part of the agreement that states if they ship me the wrong ammo, I can only return it if it's unopened.*

Many places have similar policies - Walmart for example.

V4Vendetta
April 6, 2006, 05:27 PM
OK. Has anyone had any dealings with them? Good or bad I wish to hear all about it. If most are good, I'll give them a shot*.



*Pun intended.:D

V4Vendetta
April 6, 2006, 05:33 PM
"I read a part of the agreement that states if they ship me the wrong ammo, I can only return it if it's unopened."

"Many places have similar policies - Walmart for example."


It's not the same thing. They admited that the product might be shipped in a box that says something else so that they can re-use boxes & cut cost. I have to open that box or I won't know if it's the right thing. Yet if I open it, I'm out $70. I can't afford that. As it is I'm getting my very first gun of my own Saturday & I can't buy another for several years unless I can find one laying on the road one day. Even then I wouldn't want a gun in my possesion that might have been used in a stick up or something else equally bad.

Nick1911
April 6, 2006, 05:56 PM
It's not the same thing. They admited that the product might be shipped in a box that says something else so that they can re-use boxes & cut cost. I have to open that box or I won't know if it's the right thing. Yet if I open it, I'm out $70. I can't afford that. As it is I'm getting my very first gun of my own Saturday & I can't buy another for several years unless I can find one laying on the road one day. Even then I wouldn't want a gun in my possesion that might have been used in a stick up or something else equally bad.

Right, I can see where you're coming from - sorry I wasn't more clear - I meant opening the actual boxes of ammo in the shipping box. As hso mentioned, I'm sure that you can open the box it was shipped in, or how would you know if you got the right thing? Sorry for the confusion :)

On a related note, good choice on the SAR-1. I've had one for a few years, and it's been great!

af1acura
April 6, 2006, 06:27 PM
Good choice on the SAR-1, Mine has been great!
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b385/af1acura/CIMG1240.jpg


Check out this board for ammo status.http://www.ar15.com/forums/forum.html?b=4&f=54 I just picked some Wolf SP for $3 a box of 20. There was a shortage of the 7.62X39 but it seems that it is slowly trickling in the country now.

imas
April 6, 2006, 06:27 PM
Wolf and other Russian makers get a bad rap. Mostly because ARs tend to choke on them and they seem to be a bit dirtier than some of the premium ammo. I have put several thousand rounds of Wolf, Silver Bear, Barnaul, etc... through my ak's and they always run flawless. I've never heard anyone complain about the reliability of these brands in AK's either. Most people who store ammo for a "rainy day" buy wolf or others.

Don't waste your time on hollow points they don't open up. I don't think you should bother with soft point either. I don't think FMJ has ever had a problem with man stopping.

I guess the only reason I would but the expensive brass cased stuff is for accuracy. In that case I wouldn't be shooting the AK anyway. It will put them down just fine but you're not going to make quater size groups at 200 yards.

V4Vendetta
April 6, 2006, 06:30 PM
"On a related note, good choice on the SAR-1. I've had one for a few years, and it's been great!"


Thanks. I hope mine will be equally good.

"

Don't Tread On Me
April 6, 2006, 06:58 PM
Actually, in my Colt AR-15, Wolf never chokes. It keeps eating it and eating it. Don't listen to the ammo snobs on other forums who used to bash it non-stop. They are (hypocritically) now using it because surplus ammo has dried up.

Many people even trust Wolf and have successfuly used it in training classes. Now that is faith. Few people would want to ruin a class costing hundreds of dollars plus travel time and other expenses because of bad ammo.

The only negatives against the new Wolf polymer is that it is dirty (but we always knew that) and it is underpowered.

I've noticed that the polymer coating is not the best either. If I shoot Wolf, then shoot a brass cased ammo like XM193, the empties from the XM193 will have a very faint, spotty film of that polymer stuff on it. Don't know if you can even call it a film it is that faint and thin. This means that the Wolf stuff is leaving something behind in my chambers (besides the carbon fouling).


No biggie. Haven't had any problems, so I assume it is a non-issue.

Buzztail
April 6, 2006, 07:16 PM
I'm going to drift away from the rest and say that I like the Yugo 7.62. It's hotter, and more accurate that Wolf, or many of the others. I have several cases (bought it cheap and stacked it deep:p ) that I draw from now and then to keep my SAR1 all limbered up.

possum
April 6, 2006, 07:52 PM
v4,

what part of N.C do yoiu live, i might be able to help you find ammo at a decsent rate, and might can give you the numbers to local places that carry the ammo you want. i am from the charlotte area.

oh and 154gr wolf sp workes great in my mak-90 and is the most accurate i have found. i love the stuff!

V4Vendetta
April 7, 2006, 11:35 AM
Possum, I'm FAR away from you. I'm up near Winston-Salem. Thanks for the though though.

possum
April 7, 2006, 01:38 PM
Possum, I'm FAR away from you. I'm up near Winston-Salem. Thanks for the though though

Yeah i really can't help you there, but i have been to a few good gun shows in winston salem. i know this dosen't apply to the topic of ammo and such, but thier is ed's gun shop which is down near the S.C border, but he goes to all the shows, if you call him ahead of time before the gun show he will bring it and have it waiting for you. he has the best prices on anything you could want in the south, other gun shops around the area hate him because he sells so cheap. I will try to find his number a send it to you.

imas
April 8, 2006, 12:33 AM
I guess my favorite so far is Silver Bear. It is really good stuff.

Actually, in my Colt AR-15, Wolf never chokes. It keeps eating it and eating it

The most common problem I've seen in ARs happens like this. (this is with the old laquered type wolf ammo) You shoot half a dozen mags in a pretty short amount of time. Then load up another mag and start shooting, stop mid-mag and let it cool down. In many cases the laquer will melt on the chambered round and stick that bad boy in there pretty good.

possum
April 8, 2006, 12:38 AM
I guess my favorite so far is Silver Bear. It is really good stuff.


i have been wanting to try some silver bear. it works pretty good in your ar-15? thanks!

imas
April 8, 2006, 10:26 PM
It runs great in my AKs. I haven't shot any in 223. It is nickel plated though so it should be smooth.

V4Vendetta
April 10, 2006, 11:42 AM
I just got my SAR-1 & 90 Wolf FMJ's to go with it. They feed reliably most of the time but there were a few times when I had to manualy re-cock. I then went to Walmart & got 40 Winchester FMJ's for $19. I haven't tried them yet but they look SO much prettier than Wolf. My local Walmart only carries FMJ's so I guess that's what I'll be using.

jobu07
April 10, 2006, 12:06 PM
Congrats on picking it up!

They feed reliably most of the time but there were a few times when I had to manualy re-cock.

Now get some more trigger time in. Might just have to let the rifle break itself in.

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