So. I've been living in Detroit for most of my life, with the exception of a 7 year detour to Germany when I was a kid, and I'm seriously considering getting out. I've got three friends who have recently moved to Denver, and it looks like it might be the place to be for me. I just need some more info. looks like my MI CCW is valid there, but I don't know much about the laws other than that. anyone care to shed some light? also, what's the job market like? cost of living? is public transportation decent? weather? etc.. etc..
basically, if you're from CO, Denver in particular, but not necessarily, tell me what you know about your state!
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April 5, 2006, 06:19 PM
Try this web site.
April 5, 2006, 06:31 PM
Finally, 562 posts and something I know about. :p
colorado native, born here, lived quite a bit of my life here.
Lived in Lakewood, Golden and now Longmont.
Most of the population is along the front range, Denver, Ft collins, Colorado springs. some is in Grand Junction, the rest of the state is sparsely populated. Denver (metro area, not just denver) has changed A LOT in the last 15 years. In 1990, it had about 1 million population, it's now well over 2 million. Not for the better in my opinion. Water is a serious issue here and there is more growth than water.
Housing is way overpriced and due for a fall. A starter home in most of the front range is over 200k.
Taxes are not bad. State sales tax of about 3%. Most cities add on anywhere from 4 to 6%. Income tax is 4.25% of income and property tax is approximately 1% of value. (more or less, depends on where you go, special districts, etc, but more or less 1%). Denver (the city) has an employment tax of like $2 a week, no one else does.
Registerting a car is ridiculously expensive. It's by weight and value so big SUV's and trucks cost a ton. I'm expecting my new chevy 2500HD to be close to or over 1000 dollars for the first year. It does drop off, by year 10 it's only 15 bucks a year.
The state has gotten much more liberal (and not in a good way) and politics are about to get very interesting. Traffic is bad, but there are some good ways to go to get around.
Weather is very mild. We have like 300 days of sunshine per year, humidity is very low (bring lotion, you'll dry out for a long time til you get used to it) and we only get like 13 inches of moisture a year (in front range, mountains get much more). The front range gets some INTENSE weather. We get blizzards, windstorms, huge hailstorms, and tornado's, esp out further east. It is windy here and this year has been esp. dry andy windy. (and the wind is getting OLD)
Gun laws are very good, except in Denver proper. Most of the gun ranges have moved out east (more land, fewer neighbors, etc). there are more than a couple colorado shooting web sites. There are some excellent gun stores scattered about.
Feel free to PM me, and welcome back to America.
April 5, 2006, 06:36 PM
I'll post a bit more when I have a bit of time. I just wanted to tag this thread. Check out my site in my signature and also http://coloradoshooting.org/
There is a COlorado forum there too but it appears to be down at the moment (for me anyways).
April 5, 2006, 07:00 PM
in denver, most if not all of the indoor ranges are in the southern part of the city. Be prepared for nasty traffic, denver has suffered LA style out of control growth, and the freeways show it.
April 5, 2006, 07:38 PM
BozemanMT has said a lot in a little space.
Let me add this, please:
There are really two Colorados: Colorado, and Denver. They're very different. Denver is very wealthy, but turning more leftist by the day. It thinks it owns all of Colorado. The rest of Colorado is much like Texas: very conservative, very old-fashioned, thoroughly American, and completely individualist.
Denver exerts more and more control over the entire state. So far, the resentment hasn't coalesced into coherent resistance, but I suspect it's going to have to—unless, of course, Colorado wants to devolve into another Illinois. I'm sure that would suit the political top dogs in Denver, but equally sure it would thoroughly antagonize the rest of the state, and probably much of the population of Denver, as well.
Water is a problem that's going to get worse. Everybody pretends otherwise, but realistically speaking, we're tapping a great deal of deeply buried water that can't be replaced. It's going to become more and more expensive, and I predict there'll be serious political battles over it in due time.
The Second Amendment is alive and well throughout the state, with the exception of the city of Denver itself. I carry openly and concealed interchangeably, and carry everywhere I go, including restaurants, bars, and taverns, although truth to tell, I'm not a drinking man. I've heard there are posted businesses, but haven't ever seen one. K–12 schools are prohibited, as are posted federal properties and county court houses, but that's actually about it. The shall issue process works smoothly except in Denver and Jefferson counties, where people can expect delays and excuses. There's no firearms registration. You can have all the fully automatic firearms you can afford. Background checks usually take 10–30 minutes, and there are no waiting periods. Texas probably has more firearms per capita, but we're a heavily armed bunch of people, and large numbers of us put in range time, hunt, and compete in shooting events.
Away from Denver, violent crime is low. Property taxes are highly variable, so be sure to look before you leap. Again apart from Denver, county and city government is usually very clean. People are friendly and open. Most of Colorado is mostly like America was 50 years ago.
If you're coming here from Detroit, brace yourself for culture shock.
April 5, 2006, 09:04 PM
I'll add to the above posters comments about Denver also include Boulder with respect to the Liberal-left mind frame. The smaller towns are much more conservative for the most part, and housing prices go down as one moves away from Denver/Boulder.
Not sure of the job market since I only watch my areas of interest, Biotech (poor) and IT (better, but not like the .com boom). Public transportation is a frelling joke IMAO, 'specially since the RTD workers are on strike.
Weather is fantastic. 300+ days of sunshine, one can ride motorcycles in December during the day and the variety never ends. It can be 70+ w/ sun one day, and the next day be a full out blizzard. :D
Oh, and Denver is just a short drive from the National Forests, which are a great place to go plinking.
April 5, 2006, 10:57 PM
I think Colorado's been covered pretty well. I'm waiting for the housing market to crash to get into a house. It's going to happen soon, and probably pretty hard.
Colorado's a great place for outdoorsmen. We've got 54 "ranked" peaks over 14,000', although there's legal and access issues with a few of them. Lots and lots of forest land where you can go for a weekend and if you go for the less-beaten-path, you might not see another soul for days at a time.
We've also got some very tasty tap water.
July 8, 2006, 06:50 AM
I don't usually like dredging up old threads, but what about Colorado Springs?
Recently, the very strong possibility has ripened that I may be moving there quite soon. Denver worries me, but I know nothing about Colorado Springs. Anyone care to enlighten me? :) Cost of living, weird tax stuff, traffic, general societal disposition, and so forth...
July 8, 2006, 10:26 AM
Housing is way overpriced and due for a fall. A starter home in most of the front range is over 200k. That's overpriced? Yow.
July 8, 2006, 11:01 AM
Well Chris when you consider that once you get out of that front range band ( out on the plains ) its not uncommon to find 3 or 4 bedroom homes with 4 to 6 lots , possibly more . for the 60 to 100k $ range , yea for us coloradioans its overpriced LOL . Heck lots of the state you can pick up a house with 20 to 40 acres for 100 to 140k .
July 8, 2006, 12:53 PM
I'll add to the above posters comments about Denver also include Boulder with respect to the Liberal-left mind frame.
Other towns to avoid:
Ft.Collins (outskirts are OK)
I can't think of any other "bad spots" at the moment. Aurora is one that I would not consider desireable, but is not near as bad as Denver.
As others said, the weather here is generally very pleasant, but we do get extremes. We also do not have seasons; You'll see 70-80 degree days in January and blizzards in May or June.
But be prepared for driving- We don't believe in turn signals and speed limits were made to be broken. The average speed on I-25 through town is 80-85, but the left lane is reserved for fast drivers.;).
July 8, 2006, 01:01 PM
Thanks, guys, there is nothing left for me to add....all that needs to be said, has been noted. Oh, if there is anything you enjoy doing in the mts.....avoid it... the traffic is herendous....really. You will need to learn the I-70 shuffle....!!!!
July 8, 2006, 01:08 PM
You might as well move to CO ... it seems everyone else has :p
We left there almost 10 yrs ago. The little western slope town where we lived was going crazy with new people. You couldn't hardly cross Main Street in a cross-walk anymore, without somebody 3 blocks away speeding up and trying to hit you, then honking and hand signals :uhoh:
I guess everything is relative ...
July 8, 2006, 01:20 PM
Erik Jensen--your MI CPL will be good till you become a Colorado citizen ie get CO drivers license/or ???? Then no good. Will have to wait some months (6?) before you can apply for CO "permit'-it will be good for 5 years.
July 8, 2006, 02:03 PM
Dionysusigma, everything Standing Wolf said about CO would apply to Colorado Springs as well. It's way too busy for my tastes, and the population is fairly transient with Fort Carson, Pete Field and other military installations.
And MachIVshooter, I'll go along with most of your recommendations, but what is wrong with Pueblo and Trinidad? :confused:
July 8, 2006, 03:41 PM
Denver was a great place until Californians started moving in and paying cash for homes.After that came traffic reports on the weekend and it's been downhill ever since.Home prices in metro Denver are at least 33% too high.
And MachIVshooter, I'll go along with most of your recommendations, but what is wrong with Pueblo and Trinidad? Yah,Pueblo,Pueblo west (booming by the way!) and Trinidad have improved much in the last 10 years.A $125,000 home in Pueblo west (great sunsets) would be $240,000 in Denver.
July 8, 2006, 04:06 PM
I'm from Michigan too; a small town outside of Grand Rapids.
I've lived in Colorado/Denver for the last 8 years. Bought a home near the top in 2000 and just sold it last week. Made a decent amount of money. I too believe the housing market is going to crash here. There are too many homes going up and the prices cannot support it b/c the economy just isn't that good anymore. The economy is okay, but can't support these absurd housing prices.
I echo the above statements regarding:
1) Too many **********ns are moving here b/c they've ruined that state and want to start in on another one...
2) Housing is WAY too expensive. It's not uncommon to find areas in Denver where 900 sq ft homes are $300,000, and 4 bedroom houses are $1 million.
3) Traffic is about the worst I've ever seen, probably only behind DC, LA, and NY city. The city NEVER anticipated this staggering growth and there is heavy traffic all day every day. And to add to the problem, there are so many people from out of state with different driving patterns that it adds to the problem (e.g **********ns never learned how to drive in rain or snow)
4) Denver and surrounding cities have become obcessed with laws against dog breeds and gun control laws. Right now you cannot own a pit bull in many cities including Denver, and Denver prohibits assault rifles and high capacity mags over 20 rounds.
5) Taxes are reasonable enough except the vehicle regisration
6) Auto insurance is one of the highest in the nation, probaby in part due to the illegals here
7) I do love it here though. The weather is some of the best I've ever experienced (I travel a lot). We have world class mountain resorts and skiing. Excellent for the outdoorsman too.
All in all, it's a good place to live if you can live and work outside of the city and county of Denver.
July 8, 2006, 05:51 PM
i was there on vacation a couple of weeks ago, in boulder (don't worry, not another californian infesting your state permanently). i found it really funny that the driver of the shuttle from the airport to hotel was complaining about rush hour traffic, yet we were going at about 50mph with a few cars around. nothing like the 5-10mph fun back home. at the very least it seemed like a foreign country (a waitress said of my friends and i: "you guys bring a lot of color to boulder!"), and had fun going through my first freak hailstorm.
July 8, 2006, 06:14 PM
Recently, the very strong possibility has ripened that I may be moving there quite soon. Denver worries me, but I know nothing about Colorado Springs. Anyone care to enlighten me? Cost of living, weird tax stuff, traffic, general societal disposition, and so forth...
The Springs is a nice-sized city, though growing prodigiously. The secret, it would seem, is out. Great weather, close to nearly any outdoor activity you could want, decent nightlife and a smattering of interesting things to see and do.
Generally a conservative town owing to the close proximity of several military installations- Ft. Carson, Air Force Academy, Peterson AF Base, and Cheyenne Mountain.
July 8, 2006, 07:42 PM
I love living in Colorado, although I'll echo what the others have said. We live in Lone Tree and have a house with an unbostructed view of the mountains, but while the houses are nice size, they are close together. You have to get away from Denver for some land. As others have said the climate is great all year round. You can golf and ski in January on the same day. Yes, we have our cold snaps but 55F and sunny is pretty typical winter weather, although I have experienced snow flurries while cutting the lawn in May. :rolleyes:
The mountains are beautiful, the gun laws are good and the wildlife is abundant.
July 8, 2006, 07:48 PM
Well, I'm early 20s, male, and single, so buying a house at the moment isn't a big issue for me. ;) Apartment rent rates are, however... and the two seem to be directly related. Also, the weather won't be a problem at all... I've lived through -10 winters and 3' of snow, and loved it.
Just off the top of the head, does anyone know how much car registration would be for a 2001 Ford Taurus? I'm trying to get a realistic estimate of expenses for the first three months. Gas prices? Night life?
As far as gun stuff goes, what stores are in the area? Ranges? How hard is attaining a CCW in Colorado Springs? Is there a "Castle Law?" Open carry? DCM/ 3-gun?
Thanks to all for the points given... :)
July 8, 2006, 08:07 PM
Insurance and gas will be high , anything that goes to colorado gets a higher freight rate , and our insurance rates are due to " No fault " insurance heratige .. on insurance basicly take your state and close to double it at best bet , triple it at worst .
edited to add after re reading
Castle doctrine ... We had the original castle doctrine law , the anti's calle
As to ranges ect.. on the front range i cannot speak to , i live out east in the forgotten part of colorado but if you need phesant or prarie dog hunting let me know lol
July 8, 2006, 08:45 PM
How hard is attaining a CCW in Colorado Springs?
Colorado is shall issue, plus the El Paso County Sheriff is is pro-CCW, so no problem there.
Colorado is the home of the "Make My Day" law. I have the law in its entirety on my shop computer. If you want, PM me Monday for it.
Registration on Sandy's 1997 Taurus was something like $28 this year. Yours will be more, being newer. Registration on my '04 Chev Crew Cab diesel was over $500.
Open carry is technically legal, Standing Wolf does it all the time.
We have a great range for 3 gun, IPSC, IDPA etc. just north of Pueblo (Pueblo West Sportsmans Assn). Tom Freeman ("Hoser" on this board) is match director. Zak Smith and several other THR members shoot there.
July 8, 2006, 09:14 PM
The cities along the edge of the mountains , like Denver, have a serious smog problem since the mountains block air flow that would move the smog.Temperature extremes in the winter . When I was there ['70s] it would alternate between 50F one week and the next subzero [lowest I saw was -34 F !!] Climate is semi arid .Eastern half is high plains [mile high city of Denver] ,western half is Rocky Mtns. Finding someone born there is rare. When I was there the movie 'The Godfather ' came out and most thought it was Hollywood fiction. That was funny since Boulder was a Mafia center since the '30s !!!!
July 8, 2006, 09:35 PM
I moved away from 23 years in Colorado Springs 6 years ago.
Loved CS when I first got there. Nearly hated it when I left.
July 8, 2006, 09:44 PM
Finding someone born there is rare.
Not as rare as you might think, if you get away from the high population centers. For instance, I was born in Colorado, as was my dad, as was my grandfather (a 1903 model), as were most of the Ashcraft family.
The real Colorado cannot be found in Denver, and is probably rarely seen in Colorado Springs. Its in the rural areas, as always.
July 8, 2006, 09:47 PM
A state that is going more and more leftist everyday! PERIOD! The mountain portion is pretty though, if you can stand their politics. Haven't lived there since 1988(Colorado Springs).
July 8, 2006, 10:40 PM
How's the western slope? I have family that lives in Grand Junction and I'm not too impressed with it. But I had some in-laws who lived in Pagosa Springs for a couple of years, and I love Durango. Didn't know what kind of shooting resources are in that area though...
July 8, 2006, 10:48 PM
A state that is going more and more leftist everyday!
I just don't see it. Maybe I'm looking at a different Colorado than some. :confused:
True, the Californians are coming in at record numbers, and they are bringing their politics with them.
Still, I can't think of many places I would rather be. Montana, Wyoming or Idaho, maybe, but our weather is better, and our mountains taller.
July 9, 2006, 01:27 PM
A state that is going more and more leftist everyday! PERIOD!
Not regarding firearms.............
Colorado state constitution Article 13, section II
The right of no person to keep and bare arms in defense of his home, person and property,or in aid of the civil power when thereto legally summoned, shall be called into question; but nothing herein contained shall be construed to justify the practice of carrying concealed weapons.*
*shall-issue ccw, statewide as of May 2003.
18-1-704.5 Use Of Deadly Physical Force Against An Intruder (“Make My Day law”)
1. The general assembly hereby recognizes that the citizens of Colorado have a right to expect absolute safety within their own homes.
2. Notwithstanding the provisions of section 18-1-704, any occupant of a dwelling is justified in using any degree of physical force, including deadly physical force, against another person when that other person has made an unlawful entry into the dwelling, and when the occupant has a reasonable belief that such other person has committed a crime in the dwelling in addition to the uninvited entry, or is committing or intends to commit a crime against a person or property in addition to the uninvited entry, and when the occupant reasonably believes that such other person might use any physical force, no matter how slight, against any occupant.
3. Any occupant of a dwelling using physical force, including deadly physical force, in accordance with the provisions or subsection (2) of this section shall be immune from criminal prosecution for the use of such force.
4. Any occupant of a dwelling using physical force, including deadly physical force, in accordance with the provisions of subsection (2) of this section shall be immune from any civil liability for injuries or death resulting from the use of such force.
C.R.S. 29-11.7-103. Regulation - type of firearm - prohibited.
A local government may not enact an ordinance, regulation, or other law that prohibits the sale, purchase, or possession of a firearm that a person may lawfully sell, purchase, or possess under state or federal law. Any such ordinance, regulation, or other law enacted by a local government prior to March 18, 2003, is void and unenforceable.
18-12-105.6. Limitation on local ordinances regarding firearms in private vehicles.
(1) The general assembly hereby finds that:
(a) A person carrying a weapon in a private automobile or other private means of conveyance for hunting or for lawful protection of such person's or another's person or property, as permitted in sections 18-12-105 (2) (b) and 18-12-105.5 (3) (c), may tend to travel within a county, city and county, or municipal jurisdiction or in or through different county, city and county, and municipal jurisdictions, en route to the person's destination;
(b) Inconsistent laws exist in local jurisdictions with regard to the circumstances under which weapons may be carried in automobiles and other private means of conveyance;
(c) This inconsistency creates a confusing patchwork of laws that unfairly subjects a person who lawfully travels with a weapon to criminal penalties because he or she travels within a jurisdiction or into or through another jurisdiction;
(d) This inconsistency places citizens in the position of not knowing when they may be violating local laws while traveling within a jurisdiction or in, through, or between different jurisdictions, and therefore being unable to avoid committing a crime.
(2) (a) Based on the findings specified in subsection (1) of this section, the general assembly concludes that the carrying of weapons in private automobiles or other private means of conveyance for hunting or for lawful protection of a person's or another's person or property while traveling into, through, or within, a municipal, county, or city and county jurisdiction, regardless of the number of times the person stops in a jurisdiction, is a matter of statewide concern and is not an offense.
(b) Notwithstanding any other provision of law, no municipality, county, or city and county shall have the authority to enact or enforce any ordinance or resolution that would restrict a person's ability to travel with a weapon in a private automobile or other private means of conveyance for hunting or for lawful protection of a person's or another's person or property while traveling into, through, or within, a municipal, county, or city and county jurisdiction, regardless of the number of times the person stops in a jurisdiction.
In Colorado, we basically only have to worry about Federal law; BATF has always had tougher laws than the state.
Do note that Denver, being a "home rule" city (city existed before the state became a state), has found ways to skirt state law. CO. supreme court has sided with the state on many issues, but Denver has been allowed to maintain their AWB and their open carry ban. The AWB gets pretty fuzzy regarding non-Denver residents, but it is still best to simply avoid contact with Denver law enforcement if you have any firearms on you or in your vehicle. They have been known to illegally detain people.
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