Ruby Ridge Documentary


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Zedicus
April 5, 2006, 08:33 PM
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4565369222910430105

Watch Now, comment after.

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Kodiaz
April 5, 2006, 09:16 PM
Disgusting all the feds that were there should be hung. Rachel Weaver is cute. I couldn't finish watching it, this crap pisses me off.

Zedicus
April 5, 2006, 09:39 PM
It pisses me off to, but it's something that should be burned into every Freedom Loving American's Memory to prevent it from being buried in history & to try to keep it from happening again.

Bummer
April 5, 2006, 10:14 PM
Rachel Weaver is cute. I couldn't finish watching it, this crap pisses me off.

Ditto to both of this. I personally don't remember it real time as I'm only 19, but I've heard of it. In fact Randy Weaver actually stayed with a friend here (NC).

Rachel Weaver seems to be an extremely smart, attractive well polished and mature sounding young lady. I pity her and her family. Anyone know what she's doing and what Randy's doing now?

Bummer

Kodiaz
April 5, 2006, 10:19 PM
Wow big oops. Did the .gov even get a conviction??

Dave R
April 5, 2006, 10:27 PM
I'm pretty sure Randy Weaver is locked up.Where does this stuff come from? Not true.

Telling the story from Rachel's point of view was creative genius.

Just plain chilling.

Zedicus
April 5, 2006, 10:27 PM
I'm pretty sure Randy Weaver is locked up.

Nope, watch the vid, He makes occational appearances at gunshows to sign books that he wrote

Azrael256
April 5, 2006, 10:32 PM
Weaver only served a few months in prison. They only got him on failure to appear, and most of the sentence was knocked off for time served.

While I still maintain that Weaver is a nutball, being different is not a justification for what happened to him. I find his ties to white supremacists reprehensible, but being a jackass is not a crime.

Sindawe
April 5, 2006, 10:40 PM
I find his ties to white supremacists reprehensible, but being a jackass is not a crime.What ties would that be? IIRC, the Weavers were white SEPERATISTS, not supremacists. They did not wish to live around blacks, asians, latinos and the corrupting influence of our current secular and materialistic culture. So they went to live in the woods apart from all that.

odysseus
April 6, 2006, 06:37 AM
Pretty good 1-hour snap doc of the Weavers. I was very impressed with Rachel Weaver, she shows an emotional maturity well beyond her years.

For me what is the undisputable fact of this and the siege at Waco, is how easily our press, media outlets, and common people are fooled at what the truth is and real issues - and that the Fed in these examples new this and have been caught out right lying to the public. It is a sad, sad tragic story and people do need to wake up to the fact that the press in the US and the lowering of the denominator in critical thinking of the people is getting worse, not better.

Now to this statement here:
They did not wish to live around blacks, asians, latinos and the corrupting influence of our current secular and materialistic culture.

I am going to try to question this correctly. Are you saying that living around "blacks, asians, and latinos" is equal with a "corrupting influence" of a secular and materialistic culture? For the way you wrote this sentence would seem to think you are editorialising that, and maybe stating a personal opinion?

Anyway, it's no doubt that Weaver was not a neo-Nazi, but his association with them will always be a dark shadow around him and was what the government tried to use against him. I saw that they made that connection of Weaver being a "perfect" insider for thier own investigative designs which blew up in their face. Really upsetting stuff there.

Henry Bowman
April 6, 2006, 10:38 AM
I am going to try to question this correctly. Are you saying that living around "blacks, asians, and latinos" is equal with a "corrupting influence" of a secular and materialistic culture? For the way you wrote this sentence would seem to think you are editorialising that, and maybe stating a personal opinion? I don't think that's what he meant. But even if that was what Randy Weaver thought, what's wrong with peacefully going off to live in the sticks so that it's no longer an issue?

Anyway, it's no doubt that Weaver was not a neo-Nazi, but his association with them will always be a dark shadow around him and was what the government tried to use against him.The extent of his "association" with them was to attend one meeting at the government's request and then refusing to go back because he didn't agree with them.

odysseus
April 6, 2006, 02:36 PM
I don't think that's what he meant. But even if that was what Randy Weaver thought, what's wrong with peacefully going off to live in the sticks so that it's no longer an issue?

Nothing wrong with that. I might disagree with racist attitudes and find them 99% misguided, but you are free to live in it (it's your loss) just so long as you keep to yourself too and don't tell me I can't be a neighbor because I am not white or dark enough as you.

I am just calling someone out a bit more to have them define what they said which seems ambigious.

The extent of his "association" with them was to attend one meeting at the government's request and then refusing to go back because he didn't agree with them.

Negative. You didn't watch the video? Weaver states himself, and his daughter, that he went there several times on his own with his family to attend meetings there and family events with his kids. He didn't agree with their ideology, but he befriended them. That's why he was a target by the Feds which they then turned into an epic disaster, lying to everyone about it. Let's keep the facts straight.

WayneConrad
April 6, 2006, 02:53 PM
Very good film, nicely done. The editor does a great job of letting the people speak for themselves without trying to get me to agree or disagree. "Show me, don't tell me" is the mantra of good storytelling, and I think the editor of this film did well in that regard.

Sindawe
April 6, 2006, 03:42 PM
Odysseus: I'm not saying that at all. I paraphrased what I understand to be the Weaver's motivation for living on Caribou Ridge. That they did not wish to live among those who are not caucasian. Nor did they wish to live among what they perceived to be the corrupting influence of our secular, material property driven culture. Here the word "and" serves as a conjunction between the two statements. Did you never watch School House Rock? Or was that before your time? No editorialization, and certainly not a personal opinion.

Carl N. Brown
April 6, 2006, 04:34 PM
There were ten charges against Weaver at his trial, which was
eclipsed in the news by the same federal bunch going haywire
at Waco April 1993.

Two charges were thrown out of court by the judge, based on
the prosecution witnesses' testimony.

Of the eight remaining charges, the jury acquitted Weaver on six
charges, again based on only prosecution evidence, since the
defense lawyers rested, saying the government had not proven
a case.

At sentencing, the judge noted that "crimes on pretrial release" would
have required a conviction on one or more of the eight charges
dismissed or acquitted, and the judge set aside that conviction
by the jury.

Weaver was sentenced only on failure to appear in court on
any of the dates given him: 19 Feb, 20 Feb or 20 March 1991.

(Last date he was given 20 March was allegedly a typo; a bench
warrant was issued for his arrest on 20 FEB since he did not show
on that date but he could have shown up in court on 20 Mar with
the Pre-Trial Services letter with the bad date with no problem.)

Kodiaz
April 6, 2006, 05:58 PM
Wow that just made me nauseous. Guy loses his son and wife over this garbage. And none of the thugs that perpetrated this travesty gets a minute in jail. Man this makes me sick.

dch1978
April 6, 2006, 08:15 PM
The biggest problem is that lives were lost over the possiblity of an "illegal" weapon. Same at Waco.

No piece of metal is worth a human life.

Al Norris
April 7, 2006, 03:05 AM
It wasn't even about the piece of metal.

It was about failure to pay a $200 tax. Remember that, if you ever decide to improvise your 1040! Failure to pay taxes could cost you your life!

Zedicus
April 7, 2006, 03:18 AM
Kodiaz: Wow that just made me nauseous. Guy loses his son and wife over this garbage. And none of the thugs that perpetrated this travesty gets a minute in jail. Man this makes me sick.

Note also that the Sniper who murdered Vicky Weaver was also at Waco...:barf:

Don't Tread On Me
April 7, 2006, 03:47 AM
These Brits who produced the program are extremely biased. If you can look past their BULL, then you can focus on the facts and events.


BTW, Rachel (the daughter?) is awesome. She likes .45/70's.


There's nothing better than seeing a pretty girl shoot a rifle.

Husker1911
April 7, 2006, 03:51 AM
Methinks Rachel might found a worthy audience. You go, girl.

gunsmith
April 7, 2006, 05:18 AM
Made me very, very sad.

I disagree with Randy's statement "some Jews are better then others"

I felt like crying when I saw how sad his daughter was, and I agree with
him when he said "they came looking for trouble and they found it"

What the hell is this fixation on the Jews? Looking at the faces of the guys
who shot his wife and kids I can't tell what their racial background is.
Is Lon Horiuchi Jewish?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/10/Horiuchi.jpg/200px-Horiuchi.jpg

Some how he doesn't look very Jewish to me

Don't Tread On Me
April 7, 2006, 05:23 AM
What is this fascination with Lon Horiuchi? Sure he was the JBT trigger puller and a murderer, but he alone did not cause this. A whole system is at fault here. Lon Horiuchi, while guilty of murder and should be sentenced to death, is just one man out of hundreds (perhaps thousands) who are just as guilty. Lon Horiuchi couldn't have done what he did if there wasn't someone who made the decision to lay seige. He couldn't do it if the FBI, DEA and all the other acronym thug agencies didn't make it a mission to condemn or kill the Weavers. Everyone that was there, including the thugs in BDU's at the road block are just as guilty as Lon Horiuchi. Period.

**************

I don't like the video. That annoying narrator bombards us with his (the show's) stupid NWO conspiracy theory junk. The idea of this program is to portray the subjects as nutjobs, not to do a documentary on government abuse.

You can tell from his tone that they are sympathetic to the government, and judgemental of those who have *legitimate* claims against the government.

The neo-nazi stuff is perhaps the biggest RED HERRING ever. Being a neo-nazi is not a crime, and it is being thrown around as if it is a significant part of the story. It is not.

Only the events between Randy Weaver and the Government are relevant. And those events clearly show the government in the wrong. Mixing in the neo-nazi stuff into the Ruby Ridge story is just like mixing in religion to what happened at Waco. When Randy's wife got shot, it wasn't about neo-nazis. When the children at Mt Carmel burned to death, it wasn't about religion.

gunsmith
April 7, 2006, 05:43 AM
the "racial" make up of the people who shot his family up
and made the decsision to treat his poor family that way
are probably of the same racial heritage as Weaver and the
maryann nations...and Lon is one of the most famous and
he sure doesn't look Jewish to me, thats all.

After MyLai most soldiers were taught they have no duty to obey a unlawfull order, I was in Basic in the 1970's when it was fresh and they told us not
to commit atrocities.
If I was at that siege I would have quit then and there.

Oh btw DTOM the nazi thing is a red herring but it's one that the film makers made it hard to ignore and Randy didn't help with the some Jews are better then others crack...

Husker1911
April 7, 2006, 05:49 AM
"Don't Tread On Me", someone pulled the trigger on a civilian.................................................................someone had to take personal responsibility. Someone was a monster.....................




Rereading your post, quite honestly, I don't disagree with you. Who/What is to blame here? Overzealous government/LEO agents.

How many of you "hometown" LEOs have shaven heads? And this helps your cause how? Don't you realize how this looks to the general public? Are you going to pull "safety concerns" with me?

Are there home invasion assaults by criminals in your precinct? Can't you understand how this plays into the fears of a common home owner? Don't you care?

The drug war doesn't warrant these "no'knock" warrants, no way, no shape, no form. Nor does a tax stamp.............................................

The Gestapo didn't ask for many societal concerns, either. Citizens should sleep soundly in their beds at night. Without the fear of masked government agents, "helping" them.

Don't Tread On Me
April 7, 2006, 08:41 AM
Oh btw DTOM the nazi thing is a red herring but it's one that the film makers made it hard to ignore and Randy didn't help with the some Jews are better then others crack...


Agreed, but in America, we don't arrest or kill people because they say some Jews are better than others.


Some people are suckers for the red herring of racism in that story. It is all they are fixated on. That moron Bill Maher in that clip in the video pretty much justified the police actions against the Weaver family based on racism.


Who's worse? People who think like that and feel that you should be rounded up (Nazi style) for being a racist, or the racist himself who lives secluded on a mountain top?


Makes you wonder.

gunsmith
April 7, 2006, 09:45 AM
after seeing that bill maher stuff I hate him more then I used too.

If racist want to live in seclusion on a mountain top I could care less.

I wouldn't mind having a mountain top my self and lived on one for a year in Ireland with a bunch of hippies.

I'm Irish, English, Scottish and Norwegian and my family does quite well beating each other up at birth days and funerals. When some racist want to do me in just because I could care less about "racial purity" or bovine excrement like that
is when I have a problem.

antarti
April 7, 2006, 02:07 PM
If racist want to live in seclusion on a mountain top I could care less.

If only every "racist" felt that way, the problem would cease to exist. You might as well call everybody living in Chinatowns/Little-Italy's/Polishtowns/Germantowns/etc racists too if you didn't believe that.

The bottom line I can't escape from is Weaver and his family hurt no-one. I can't find any justification, in any context, for what he and his family got. Not even close.

It was my understanding he went to the neo-Nazi's on a few occasions, to find out what they were about for himself. Although I've never gone to such a place, I did go to many College meetings after being told "those guys are fascists" or some other such nonsense, to see for myself. Inevitably, it was some group with a remote connection to the Republican party, which the elites/literati (Communists) on campus took to be "fascist". So if he went to see for himself, and decided that type of thing wasn't for him and his family, then I think he made a good judgement. At least, deciding not to hang with Neo-Nazi's is a choice (hopefully) most Americans would make also.

Imagine being played, on one side by the govt, to be a snitch against the other side (your Neo-Nazi neighbors), and what could end up happening if you replied either way. Not an enviable position to be in, caught between 2 sides both that you have equal disdain for, and having a reputation for persecuting those they disagree with.

The sad fact is, a family lost a mother & son/brother because a bunch of goons went on an all-expense-paid ego trip. Even La Cosa Nostra doesn't kill the wife or kids of the guy that shafts them, and even they are subject to jailtime.

Carl N. Brown
April 7, 2006, 02:35 PM
Weaver neighbor Sam Wohali (half Kootenai Indian, one quarter
German and one quarter Jew) had some hellacious arguments with
Weaver, But Wohali told FBI investigator Kenneth Weiss that the
only way Weaver would be a threat was if you went up on his
mountain and hassled him in the name of the New World Order.
In spite of some of his apocalyptic end of the world rhetoric, Weaver
was pretty much live-and-let-live seperately.

By Oct 1989, the ATF agent handler had decided that the original
focus of the investigation, Weaver's buddy Frank Kumnick, was
just a "boastful show-off" and wanted to use Weaver to introduce
informant "Gus Magisono" to Charles Howarth, who was starting
a movement in Montana. FBI informant "Rico Valentino" warned
Weaver that Magisono was a snitch, and Weaver broke contact
with Magisono. ATF did not try to contact Weaver again until
June of 1990; Herb Byerly had an NCIC background check showing
Weaver had no criminal record. Weaver refused to be a snitch.
Byerly told Prosecutor Ron Howen that Weaver was a suspected
bank robber, had criminal convictions and was making five sawed-off
shotguns a week, when he had made two over the period of four
years that he had known Magisono. It was a trumped up charge
to punish Weaver for refusing to turn rat.

Zedicus
April 7, 2006, 02:42 PM
What the hell is this fixation on the Jews?

There isn't one, rewatch the vid, he was answewring a question the interviewer asked.

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