Detained for his choice in music!!


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mr_dove
April 6, 2006, 03:04 AM
This poor guy was detained and questioned because a taxi driver reported his Vietnam Era classic rock as "terrorist music". My gosh, did this crap happen during the vietnam war too?

I wonder if this could happen in the US as well? (this happened in Britain)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=382039&in_page_id=1770&in_a_source=

A mobile phone salesman was hauled off a plane and questioned for three hours as a terror suspect - because he listened to songs by The Clash and Led Zeppelin.
Harraj Mann, 24, played the punk anthem London Calling and classic rock track Immigrant Song in a taxi before a flight to London.

The lyrics to both tracks made the driver fear his passenger was a terrorist.

The words of the Clash track begin: "London calling to the faraway towns, now war is declared and battle come down." And Led Zep's Immigrant Song goes: "The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands, to fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!"

Mr Mann, of Hartlepool, Teesside, had boarded the plane at Durham Tees Valley Airport when the flight to Heathrow was stopped and he was arrested by police.

He said he was told he was being questioned under the Terrorism Act and his choice of music had aroused suspicions.

Mr Mann said yesterday: 'The taxi had one of those tape deck things that plugs into your digital music player.

"I played Procol Harum's Whiter Shade Of Pale first, which the taxi man liked. I figured he liked the classics so put on a bit of Led Zeppelin - Immigrant Song - which he didn't like. Then, since I was going to London, I played the song by The Clash and finished up with Nowhere Man by The Beatles."

Mr Mann said he was 'frog-marched off the plane in front of everyone, had my bags searched and was asked 'every question you can think of'.

He added: "It turned out the taxi driver alerted someone when I arrived at the airport and had spoken about my music. He didn't like Led Zep or The Clash but there was no need to tell the police."

Durham Police said the action was taken 'as a result of information received' and the flight was stopped before take-off.

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Cosmoline
April 6, 2006, 03:11 AM
The UK, London in particular, is an Orwellian police state. There are cameras watching your every move and spies everywhere. The scary thing is a lot of "terrorism experts" point to London as an example of what the US must become in this latest "war."

Autolycus
April 6, 2006, 03:23 AM
Cosmoline: I hope your wrong and that we do not end up living in fear of imaginary terrorist boogeymen. It seems that the majority of people are willing to become complete sheeple.

David W. Gay
April 6, 2006, 03:25 AM
When did people loose the rationallity to say "so what?", to idiotic "fears". Do people really think that a terrorist is going to telegraph his terroristic intentions via classic rock?

It's kinda ironic that I heard War Pigs on the radio a couple of days ago. First time I've heard that song in years. And I'm pretty sure the police didn't rush to the the radio station and "detain" the DJ for questioning.

Carry on your wayward son...

the Juggernaut
April 6, 2006, 03:36 AM
I'm starting to think more and more that Alex Jones is right about the coming (or present?) police state.

tellner
April 6, 2006, 03:58 AM
With the Cold War over how else can we keep the Huddled Masses scared and compliant? Those in power need the queers and the nebulous terrorists to ensure their grip on power. Pat Roberts (you can look this up on crooksandliars.com) came out with a good one recently "Dead people don't have civil liberties." The White House has just declared in its extra-constitutional "signing statements" that its power can not be fettered in any way by any law or act of Congress and that it has the right to interpret the law as it sees fit. John Yoo has declared that the government can "crush the testicles" of an innocent ten year old to get vital information.

No checks. No balances. The President is above the Law. No act is too heinous as long as the POTUS orders it. Ave Ceasar!

The DHS now has an office whose sole purpose is to funnel money to religious groups. The implications are terrifying. Either they expect some sort of Orwellian quid pro quo or it's an out and bribe - public money for spying or public money for special interest votes.

Lyin' B. Johnson would have had a stroke. Nixon would have died of shame. Even Spiro Agnew would have scrupled at this.

And all because of terrorism. Maybe the terrorists "hate our freedoms", but no amount of bombing or planes dropping out of the sky could destroy our liberty more thoroughly than we have allowed our own President and his neo-Con Cabal to do.

Ah well. I'm just sorry I lived to see the day that we entered the Post-Constitutional era.

dfaugh
April 6, 2006, 07:52 AM
Good thing he didn't whip out the Sex Pistols singing "Anarchy in the UK"...Probably would've ended up in jail!

stevelyn
April 6, 2006, 08:00 AM
Hmmmm............As I sit here reading this, I'm listening to Queensryche's Anarchy and Revolution Calling.
I wonder if that makes me a terror suspect in the eyes of the Limeys? :rolleyes:

TarpleyG
April 6, 2006, 08:48 AM
"The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands, to fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!"
I smell something fishy here...

The lyrics in that song are REALLY hard to understand, especially if one were not a native English speaker (article doesn't state either way so I am speculating), so how did this driver think this was somehow terroristic? People are getting dumber everyday thanks to our "War on Terror."

Greg

SaintofKillers
April 6, 2006, 09:24 AM
+10 Stevelyn

Queensryche is such an underrated band.

Gods forbid that the gummit ever finds out what I am listening to.

Megadeth
Black Sabbath
Iron Maiden
Motorhead
Rollins Band
and the list goes on and on.

real_name
April 6, 2006, 09:25 AM
He was detained because he was a Muslim and listening to those songs. Check his first name again.
I concur that the UK has a lot of surveilance cameras, both visible and hidden cameras are everywhere. I've read that the average 5 min walk along a London street enables you to appear on 30 cameras. Very useful when you think how quickly British Police had a detailed background to the July 7th bombers and how disaster was averted on the attacks in the weeks following.

I agree how here in the USA it's seen that it detracts from the civil liberties of the people there but I find that for those that actually live in the UK and/or London do more than just accept the cameras, they welcome how they have turned a lot of undesirable neighborhoods into safer areas again.
In Bow (East London), a notoriously violent, drug economy part of town there are now cameras on the housing estates (projects) that are linked to channels on cable TV, the elderly people in the area monitor these channels from their homes and can call in to a non-emergency Police number if they see violent crime or robbery.

I can appreciate how this is 'spying' to some here but in my mind it isn't, the East of London was traditionally a very tight knit community not too many decades ago, now with all the social change and migration the social fabric has gone and so crime took over. The cameras are a way to redress the balance. In the 1940's kids wouldn't mug old women because 'everyone was watching and everyone would find out', what is happening now is the same principal.
I am English, I have lived in East London.

I am not saying that the USA needs these methods everywhere, small town USA can probably say it's sense of community is still strong enough to continue without assistance, but in some of the larger urban areas I think the cameras are coming (already arrived in some cases) and will just have to be accepted.
Instead of perceiving the camera as watching you and infringing your rights, it is watching your back.


I think the taxi driver was still shaken by the July 7th bombs and was being vigilant, no harm done. I don't think he was 'spying' as has been said of the British in a previous post. There's a large difference between watching your back and and 'spying'. He was IMO just watching his, and others back.

Augustwest
April 6, 2006, 09:54 AM
...no harm done.

?!?!?!?!? :banghead:

A guy was forcibly detained and missed his flight because he likes Joe Strummer's and Jimmy Page's guitar playing. Plenty of harm in that.

real_name
April 6, 2006, 10:33 AM
No harm done.
Until you have lived in London its hard to put all this in context. To you in your environment it would be a gross infringment of liberty, whereas there (especially after the July 7th attacks) it is less so. I'm sure he was annoyed but he won't litigate. That is the difference.
So, no harm done. We all get there in the end and if we allow ourselves to get too annoyed by life and it's hurdles we will get 'there' a lot faster due to a heart attack.
I realise I am probably in a minority of one but remember I am English living in the USA and due to take my citizenship oath in two weeks, this gives me a unique perspective on this and similar issues.
I don't want Americans to lose any rights. I do however see the benefits in being vigilant in this age of imported terrorism.
BTW, I grew up in the era of IRA bombings in England. People used to get arrested for 'being Irish' when I was a kid. Now it's the Muslims who are targeted by the overly cautious.
The taxi driver made an incorrect assumption but what if he had seen the signs and chosen to ignore them as he didn't want to infringe someones liberty? And then the guy proceeded onto the plane and blew it up?
We all just need to look out for one another and realise that life is complicated enough without getting stressed out so much if we get inconvenienced because we fit a profile.

Master Blaster
April 6, 2006, 11:04 AM
I concur that the UK has a lot of surveilance cameras, both visible and hidden cameras are everywhere. I've read that the average 5 min walk along a London street enables you to appear on 30 cameras. Very useful when you think how quickly British Police had a detailed background to the July 7th bombers and how disaster was averted on the attacks in the weeks following.

Right you are!!! those cameras are so good that they helped the police in London spot a suspicious person of interest wearing an inappropriate coat entering an appartment Council Block.

They were later able to follow him when he emerged from his apartment building, hold him down in the subway and shoot him in the head. Only one problem he was an innocent electrician. I'm still waiting to hear that the PO PO were brought up on charges of murder for murdering in cold blood with premeditation a person
whom the cameras had identified as a potential terrorist.

Well at least this music lover wasn't tackled and shot in the head for listening to led Zepplin, but hey maybe next week the next person wont be so lucky.:barf:

TheEgg
April 6, 2006, 11:09 AM
Real_name, I invite you to read and think on the following:

Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

BENJAMIN FRANKLIN, Pennsylvania Assembly: Reply to the Governor, November 11, 1755.

HankB
April 6, 2006, 11:10 AM
In Bow (East London), a notoriously violent, drug economy part of town there are now cameras on the housing estates (projects) that are linked to channels on cable TV, the elderly people in the area monitor these channels from their homes and can call in to a non-emergency Police number if they see violent crime or robbery. If they're to call a NON-emergency number when they see a violent crime in progress, how serious does it have to be for them to dial the "emergency" number? :confused:

David W. Gay
April 6, 2006, 11:11 AM
"No harm done"

To give such a statement in response to the events described in the article, one must have no concept of Liberty. Nothing more can be said.

real_name
April 6, 2006, 11:26 AM
Ok, I'm going to bale on this one as it's quickly degenerating into purely personal attacks on me.
Carry on assuming you know what it's like in England because you've read about it somewhere.
I am aware of the quote you offered, I live in America and to gain citizenship I have had to learn more about civics than most Americans.
People have different opinions, I believe that if I was taken off a plane as a security risk I would be glad that someone was doing that job, even if they were wrong that time. But the difference is I grew up with imported terrorism and here in the USA it's a relatively new situation. It is possible that UK style surveilance will be the norm here in 10 years.
And if you aren't actively breaking laws that doesn't harm you, excluding occasional inconveniences.
Anyway, I should drop it. There's enough animosity towards 'limeys' here without me adding to your prejudicial stereotypes by speaking out for what we perceive as common sense.
I've moved on, it's all yours to discuss now.

Sergeant Bob
April 6, 2006, 11:39 AM
Carry on assuming you know what it's like in England because you've read about it somewhere.
No harm done

I think I know all I need to know.

Zundfolge
April 6, 2006, 11:57 AM
$10 says this guy didn't tip well so the cabbie decided to stick it to him by calling in the bobbies.

:scrutiny:


He was detained because he was a Muslim and listening to those songs. Check his first name again.
Actually his first name looks Hindu to me. So he was a "darky" listening to those songs (which to me would be a sign that he's completely assimilated into the dominant culture, but what do I know).

yeah, thats so much better. :rolleyes:

migoi
April 6, 2006, 12:00 PM
In 1998, we were living in Puerto Rico and I had to fly to Virginia for some business. On the flight back when I changed planes in Miami there was some type of delay in our ability to board.

By the time we were boarding emotions were a bit stretched due to the delay and the lines. The fellow in front of me seemed to be in a particularly bad mood because he simply grunted at the boarding gate lady's attempts at greeting. When she finished with his boarding pass he snatched in from her hand and harumphed down the jetway.

When I arrived, not in that bad a mood, I offered to rush up and trip the jerk before he boarded the plane. She declined the offer and laughed it off. I went onto the plane and was starting to settle into my seat just before takeoff when a stewardess approached me. "Are you Mr. Migoi?", she asked. I didn't really like the sound of that but figuring the question was simply a confirmation of information she already knew I confirmed my identity.

She then stated. "Gather your personal belongings and come with me please." At this point I figure I'm in for a missed flight and a couple hourse in a small room with dark suited goons grilling me on why I threatened a fellow passenger.

Luckily the stewardess was simply moving me up to first class. When I inquired as to the reason... "The gate asked us to upgrade your seat."

Sometimes crime (idle terroristic theat to other passenger) does pay.

migoi

seeker_two
April 6, 2006, 12:25 PM
I wonder if the bobbies are taking photographs, fingerprints, & DNA at the theaters showing V FOR VENDETTA??? :scrutiny:

one-shot-one
April 6, 2006, 12:33 PM
"Instead of perceiving the camera as watching you and infringing your rights, it is watching your back."

Now I am not attacking you but the problem with that statement is that any "help" you get from that camera will most likely be post mortem! That is they may catch your attackers because they have them on camera but you will have already suffered whatever they intended to perpetrate on you.;)

JohnBT
April 6, 2006, 12:35 PM
And Led Zep's Immigrant Song goes: "The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands, to fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!"

I bought that album when it came out and still have it and I never knew what they were saying. THANK YOU.

John

Manedwolf
April 6, 2006, 12:43 PM
Until you have lived in London its hard to put all this in context. To you in your environment it would be a gross infringment of liberty, whereas there (especially after the July 7th attacks) it is less so. I'm sure he was annoyed but he won't litigate. That is the difference.
So, no harm done. We all get there in the end and if we allow ourselves to get too annoyed by life and it's hurdles we will get 'there' a lot faster due to a heart attack.
I realise I am probably in a minority of one but remember I am English living in the USA and due to take my citizenship oath in two weeks, this gives me a unique perspective on this and similar issues.
I don't want Americans to lose any rights. I do however see the benefits in being vigilant in this age of imported terrorism.

Please do America a favor. Read all of the Federalist Papers. Read all the documents that we've fought for. And revise your opinion, or please tear up the papers and cancel your oath-taking appointment right now. You've not yet learned what it's all about.

I'm sorry, but saying "no harm done" regarding this sort of thing is NOT what America is.

real_name
April 6, 2006, 01:28 PM
Please do America a favor. Read all of the Federalist Papers. Read all the documents that we've fought for. And revise your opinion, or please tear up the papers and cancel your oath-taking appointment right now. You've not yet learned what it's all about.

I haven't yet learned what it was all about would be more correct. But let's not get pedantic with semantics.
This is not your Grandfather's America. That much I do know.

TarpleyG
April 6, 2006, 02:53 PM
I agree with Mandewolf. You should really take a hard look at what you are saying here. There are a bunch of folks in this country that feel the same way we do.

I have a friend from South Africa that would say the same thing--that no harm was done-- but I guess when you come from that, it's all you know so it somehow makes it okay. Well, it ain't okay, and yes, this is still my grandfather's America. Letting people like you come over with that attitude is not helping.

Greg

the Juggernaut
April 6, 2006, 03:19 PM
"Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither" This about sums it up I think.

garyk/nm
April 6, 2006, 04:31 PM
Folks, lighten up, please. This did not happen in the US and our rules do not apply. This is an example of a major cultural difference, and some of you are giving real_name a hard time for explaining the culture.
I applaud real_name for having the foresight to come to the US, and congratulate him for attaining citizenship.
I understand that some of you don't understand the cultural difference, but please don't shoot the messenger, OK?

ArmedBear
April 6, 2006, 04:34 PM
But if he'd been caught mugging an old lady, he'd have been let off with a verbal warning, apparently.

real_name
April 6, 2006, 05:01 PM
Folks, lighten up, please. This did not happen in the US and our rules do not apply. This is an example of a major cultural difference, and some of you are giving real_name a hard time for explaining the culture.
I applaud real_name for having the foresight to come to the US, and congratulate him for attaining citizenship.
I understand that some of you don't understand the cultural difference, but please don't shoot the messenger, OK?

There we go, eh?
There are many reasons why I chose to be an American. Not least was wanting to live as an equal in the world's greatest democracy, the world's greatest country.
I know I'm different and my cultural background has probably left lifelong scars that some here find reprehensible, but remember I do come from a quasi-socialist society (free healthcare etc) so it's to be expected IMO.
Maybe when I've been here as long as some of you and I'm still saying dross like we should have government cameras in the bedroom then you can poke me with the sharp sticks, but presently I'm just off the boat (well, 4 years) and still struggling enough with the way you (y'all) have managed to corrupt my mother tongue, put the sticks down that was a joke.
Just be glad you are importing pro-gun voters, I think the NRA should be given the names of all recent citizens as they are probably very open to the cause.

Now, I agree to disagree, it's a lot easier than shadow boxing with people I have no fight with.
If you see me being crazy in a thread again just let it go, and I'll let it go when people say that 'limeys' are spineless.
:)

marley
April 6, 2006, 05:13 PM
Just think of some of the other clash songs the could have been singing.

Hate and war
guns of brixton
spanish bombs
english civil war
tommy gun
police and thieves
police on my back
clampdown

Joe was a great song writer. RIP

Would they have thought him guilty of murder if he was singing Folsom prison blues by the man in black?


Rancid, Rage against the machine, Dire straits, and a lot of other would be bad to sing a long to in a public place.

Remind me not to go to england. It would not be good.


They used London calling in a Bond movie, a Friends, and in of all things a jaguar comerical. And this is a sign of a terrorist.


"now get this
London calling, yes I was there too
An' you know what they said well some of it was true
London calling at the top of the dial
An' after all this won't you give me a smile?

I never felt so much like ... singing the blues....."

Patrick

antarti
April 6, 2006, 05:51 PM
There are many reasons why I chose to be an American.

We all choose to be Americans, every day. There is nothing keeping any us here. We are all free to leave at any time.

I offer a simple explanation for anybody wishing to come here, how these things work in America:

Just because I listened to Mr. Bungles "Everyone I went to High School with is Dead" (while dropping off my Kindergardener this morning) didn't really make it happen.

When "Desert Search for Techno Allah" played next, no Muslims were killed, hurt, or even infuriated.

Carry on..

Standing Wolf
April 6, 2006, 09:08 PM
I played Procol Harum's Whiter Shade Of Pale first, which the taxi man liked. I figured he liked the classics so put on a bit of Led Zeppelin...

I had no idea what "classics" might mean. I'm so glad I've been informed.

gunsmith
April 7, 2006, 05:06 AM
as we used to say, nahh he was just breathing heavy!:neener:

I was a taxi guy for awhile, but here in Reno you might be considered a terrorist
if you didn't like his choice of music.

One of the reasons I don't mind my dreary job of pizza delivery is because I BLAST War Pigs and Clash and Paranoid and Hendrix and a great album called GUN CONTROL by the sex pistols...mega death...metallica...Clancy Brothers...Dylan...beatles.

I spent more on my car sound system then I did on my last gun purchase.
(oh yeah, I carry a gun and so does my co worker who shot a holdup guy last year)

the 22 junkie
April 7, 2006, 06:03 PM
Reminds me of an old shirt my dad had in the 70's

ROCK & ROLL IS NOT A CRIME!

You think they would've detained him for suicidal tendencies for listening to Blue Oyster Cult's "Don't Fear the Reaper? Or drug possession for The Doors?

seeker_two
April 7, 2006, 06:48 PM
Wonder if I'd be convicted of treason & terrorism by singing "Yankee-Doodle" while walking down a London street?... :D

Thain
April 7, 2006, 06:51 PM
Forget the music, he was pulled off the flight because his name is "Harraj Mann," and he probably looks like his name is "Harraj ibn al-Suicide Bomber Shabaz"

Once upon a time, one olnly had a problem if you were driving the wrong sort of car with the wrong shade of skin; Now you can't use public transportation if you have the wrong "look" about you.

My Orthodox Jewish Brother-in-Law gets the extra hairy eye when he walks through a security checkpoint because he "looks like a moslem" (to quote on security drone I overheard). Yeah, the black hat, prayer shall, and peyes (curled sideburns) are really just what Ossama wears.

Aroundmetro-Detroit, we call this "Driving While Black"... at airports, "Flyign While Brown" is a felony.

gunsmith
April 7, 2006, 07:06 PM
what kind of music do you like he said

Garraj, man!

(for the pun impaired thats , garage, man!)

Justin
April 7, 2006, 07:30 PM
I wonder if the bobbies are taking photographs, fingerprints, & DNA at the theaters showing V FOR VENDETTA???

And God help you if you buy a CD of the 1812 Overture!

real_name
April 7, 2006, 07:34 PM
And God help you if you buy a CD of the 1812 Overture!

Or broadcast it while blowing up Parliament.

Waywardmonk
April 7, 2006, 07:40 PM
Real_Name...

I think there are a few in England who may not find the current trend so dandy and who might disagree with the willingness to be searched just because someone didn't like your music. As a matter of fact I can think of one Englishman who, in my opinion, would not be happy, you may recognize him from the excerpt of a speech he made in 1940..

"We shall not flag nor fail. We shall go on to the end. We shall fight in France and on the seas and oceans; we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air. We shall defend our island whatever the cost may be; we shall fight on beaches, landing grounds, in fields, in streets and on the hills. We shall never surrender and even if, which I do not for the moment believe, this island or a large part of it were subjugated and starving, then our empire beyond the seas, armed and guarded by the British Fleet, will carry on the struggle until in God's good time the New World with all its power and might, sets forth to the liberation and rescue of the Old. . "

The proper response to a Totalitarian regime is never, " umm, what's a little inconvenience? "

chas_martel
April 7, 2006, 09:09 PM
Real_Name,

I thought I'd chime in on this thread and put in my 2 cents worth.
I used to live in London, will you take my comments more serious
than others on this thread.

Your right, this is not our grandfathers America. However, there are many of us here that do remember what it is like to live in a decent society.

What I am about to say is going to sound like a personal attack but
trust me it is not. What this country needs is fewer people that think like you.

I am sure your a well meaning person and all, but attitudes like
you espouse are what has ruined this country. While your here
you might want to consider acting like a citizen instead of a subject.

My advice to you is to read the antiFederalist papers right
after you read the Federalist. You've got alot of catching
up to do.

tanksoldier
April 7, 2006, 09:15 PM
Here's the difficulty for me.

I don't like the idea of video cameras in public areas.

However, I can't see how they're an ivasion of privacy, if they're in public areas... how can you have privacy in public?

Instead of unreliable eyewitnesses you've got video tape, that's the only difference.

real_name
April 7, 2006, 09:47 PM
Chas.
No harm done, I understand your opinion.
But I don't recall saying that the USA needs the video surveillance they have in the UK, I do recall saying that the USA probably will get it, not deserve it.
So, working on the assumption that I am entitled to my opinion, how would the USA be better without people like me?
I'm not the 'King', I have very, very little power here, like us all.

I think, as I have stated all along, that Americans are easily tempted into being anti-Brit.
I love it here and plan on being buried here.
Put the sticks away and accept the differences of opinion that make America truely great.

Just imagine I am a visitor from the future speaking of the way things will come to be, which maybe I am.
It doesn't necessarily mean I am going to implement those changes, or take away anything from you.
I just have opinions and information, and another worldview.

And please everyone, drop the threats. I'm Buddhist, I'm really not supposed to get angry.
(insert smiley of your choice).

Now, do I need to change my sig to "Don't assume I think I am right"?

GoRon
April 7, 2006, 09:48 PM
The UK is a great friend and ally.

Much of the perceived rancor toward Briton is coming from people who also know and believe this. They allow themselves to pass judgment and express opinions because it is almost like family.

The fear that the UK is foreshadowing what is going to happen here in years to come is also in play.

Congratulations on your citizenship!!

real_name
April 7, 2006, 10:09 PM
Congratulations on your citizenship!!

Thankyou, Thanks a lot.

2 weeks and I'm pure American.

We are going straight out to the range as soon as I get the suit off after the ceremony.
Maybe being American will improve my group size.

Manedwolf
April 8, 2006, 07:37 AM
This is not your Grandfather's America. That much I do know.

It will be again, one way or another. Either with legal proceedings and tossing out of politicians, or if that fails and the path down the dark road continues, with taking-up of arms.

But it will one day again be as it was. Or it will crumble. And I'd rather fight for the first..

joab
April 8, 2006, 08:08 AM
But the difference is I grew up with imported terrorism and here in the USA it's a relatively new situation.Some of us grew up in the South in the 60's with terroristic attacks against government endorsed terroristic culture/ groups being a common occurrence.

And by the way we got "aint" from y'all;)

Don Gwinn
April 8, 2006, 09:52 AM
As an American citizen, you have the right to lie about your group size.

chas_martel
April 11, 2006, 12:03 AM
real_name,

Listen I am not being antiBritish, I am being proAmerican.

>No harm done, I understand your opinion.
Thanks, I am trying to understand yours.

>But I don't recall saying that the USA needs the video surveillance they have in >the UK, I do recall saying that the USA probably will get it, not deserve it.
Not really what I am talking about, just the topic that started my comments.
But of course any society could use easier, more reliable and cheaper means
to acheive what is trying to be acheive with the videos.

>So, working on the assumption that I am entitled to my opinion, how would the >USA be better without people like me?
Because, you may come here and vote unlike a more "traditional" voter.

>I'm not the 'King',
Where did I say your were a 'King'?

>I have very, very little power here, like us all.
I disagree very much. In fact a 'subject' thinks like this. A 'citizen' does not.
There has never been much power in numbers. If you will look over history
most really important things have been done by one or a few. Ask Rosa Parks.
Or perhaps Hitler.
Let me ask you, do you have more power when fewer people vote or more?
Oddly, you have more as your vote counts disproportionately versus
the general population. Don't infer from this that I don't want people voting.
I just want smart, well educated, 'citizens' to vote.

>I think, as I have stated all along, that Americans are easily tempted into being >anti-Brit.
Odd, I find Americans to be enamoured with people and think they are smarter when they speak with a British accent. Funny how we see this so differently.
I also found this to be true in reverse in some parts of Europe.

>I love it here and plan on being buried here.
Bless your soul.

>Put the sticks away
Trust, me I am not bothering to write this for fun or to be mean. I am
truly concerned for this country. I am trying my darndest to inspire people.

>and accept the differences of opinion that make America truely great.
This is a great misconception. Just being different is not 'good'. It is
supremely true that one of the greatest things about America is that
we can have differences in opinion, but that is not to say
that having a bunch of 'wrong' opinions believed by people is a good thing.
Some ideas about how things should be are better than some others.
Period, it is not even debatable.

>Just imagine I am a visitor from the future speaking of the way things will come >to be, which maybe I am.
>It doesn't necessarily mean I am going to implement those changes, or take >away anything from you.
>I just have opinions and information, and another worldview.
Great, I am happy for you. I am only worried about how you and your
offspring will end up voting. That will affect me and my offspring. And
I have a 'right' to not only feel this way but 'act' that way. Go read
the intro to our Declaration of Independence for a gist of what
I am talking about.

>And please everyone, drop the threats. I'm Buddhist, I'm really not supposed to >get angry. (insert smiley of your choice).
I hope you've not been threatened by anything I have typed.

>Now, do I need to change my sig to "Don't assume I think I am right"?
Nope, keep real_name


Later.

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