11 Million New Class 3 Gun Owners


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Thin Black Line
April 6, 2006, 09:08 PM
Here's a thought:

Would the Dems and Repubs "come together" across Capitol Hill to legalize
a new wave of US Citizens as Class 3 Gun Owners? Would there be a
so-called blanket amnesty or a tiered process toward owning your new Class
3 firearm?

Can you imagine how good this would be for our depressed manufacturing
sector in this country if millions of new firearms, parts, and ammunition
were legal! Look at the JOBS this would create --factories, ranges, retail,
training, not to mention additional licensing fees.

At $200 per tax stamp, this would generate 2,200,000,000. WOW!!!!

Surely, since no legal machine gun has EVER been used in a crime in this
country, no one in his or her right mind could argue against the good this
would do for everyone. To oppose it would be to deny freedom itself!

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TexasRifleman
April 6, 2006, 09:09 PM
Surely, since no legal machine gun has EVER been used in a crime in this
country,

Not true. A cop shot someone with a Mac 10 once. (Think it was a Mac).

Other than that I find your logic flawless, who do I call?

mordechaianiliewicz
April 6, 2006, 09:10 PM
I'm all for it.

Thin Black Line
April 6, 2006, 09:14 PM
Well, if we just follow the current illegal-becomes-legal immigration model:

1. We all just start doing it.
2. Hire lawyers and PR people to manipulate the public --whose fees are paid
by the public ;)
3. Pay off the right people in positions of power.
4. Wait for it to be made legal later.

Maxwell
April 6, 2006, 09:16 PM
Well, if we just follow the current illegal-becomes-legal immigration model:

You first :uhoh:

TexasRifleman
April 6, 2006, 09:18 PM
You first

Well, his point is valid. There is no "go first", we just ALL do it at the same time together. Rather than try to convict all of us, they just make it legal and take credit for being "understanding and compassionate".

It's a valid parallel to what's happening with the immigration mess for sure.

pcf
April 6, 2006, 09:48 PM
The federal government spends about $170,000,000 a hour. 2.2 Billion could be saved if the governemnt shutdown for 13 hours. Or if the government shutdown for about 2 minutes everyday for a year. Or the government could generate 2.2 billion in revenue by taxing every person an additional $7.50.

If every American paid a $200 tax stamp, we would generate less than an eighth of what the deficit will increase by this year.

2.2 Billion is a lot of money, then again it isn't much.

Now about the part on Democrats and Republicans coming together, the rapscallions and jezebels will hold hands, and dance in the green meadows with the prancing unicorns, as soon as, I have a sip of your Kool Aid.

Maxwell
April 6, 2006, 10:15 PM
There is no "go first", we just ALL do it at the same time together.

...ok, then you, you and you over there go first :evil:

Illegal immigration did not happen over night. As mexico became less habitable, the number of refugees increased. They have political pull now because politicians can see them marching in the streets, and some of the less bright ones think these people are a great source of future votes.

Hurry up and legalize em before '06 elections! :scrutiny:

I think all it would really be is an example of is how fast government can change its position when given the right inscentives. If firearms owners made that kind of display the politicians wouldnt have much trouble to suddenly find justification for the full-auto nation. Openly supporting the 2nd amendment and having pro-gun views would be back in style.

If they knew that millions of us were voting on firearms rights first, the nfa wouldnt last long... of course thats not the case. Even among gun owners, firearms rights often take a back seat to other issues.

These immigrants represent single issue voters to them, easy to court. Our group is more complicated.
...That and the fact that getting 500,000 of us tinfoil shielded moonbats out from behind cover/concealment and into open spaces (snipers! radiation bombs! black helicopters! government agents with convieniently malfucntioning M-16's!) might prove very difficult :uhoh:

wally
April 6, 2006, 10:26 PM
Bingo! A Million Gun March :evil:

--wally.

Maxwell
April 6, 2006, 10:52 PM
Bingo! A Million Gun March :evil:

One million nfa toting gun nuts marching on the capital... I like where this is going >_>

english kanigit
April 7, 2006, 01:48 AM
Ohhh, a patriotically revolutionary march! Me likey.... :evil:

IBTL

Don't Tread On Me
April 7, 2006, 02:04 AM
You know, this is somewhat off-topic, so I apologize in advance...

But why are the vast majority of firearms made in America made in the most anti-gun states? I understand Colt, S&W and a few others history and being there...but look at a company like Kahr. They are pretty new, but are in NY...I guess gun politics have nothing to do with where you build them.

1911 guy
April 7, 2006, 09:16 AM
Million Gun March. I like the sound of it. The fact that it will scare politicians makes me like it even more. Where do I sign up?

GET ON THE BUS! (Oh, wait. Greyhound doesn't allow firearms.)

TexasRifleman
April 7, 2006, 09:23 AM
I guess gun politics have nothing to do with where you build them.

Not when you are running a business. For the most part you worry more about tax incentives, cost of incorporation, access to labor etc.

Politics are nice but they don't pay the electric bill.

Thin Black Line
April 7, 2006, 09:29 AM
Outside of Chicago and a couple other of the college towns, downstate
Illinois isn't too bad. They have many firearms and ammo plants than
most people realize.

Back on topic:

Lindsey Graham, a Republican senator, said over the weekend: “This is a defining moment for the Republican Party. If our answer to the fastest-growing demographic in this country is that ‘we want to make felons of your grandparents and we want to put people in jail who are helping your neighbours and people related to you’, then we’re going to suffer mightily.”

Again, apply that logic to the average TAX-PAYING gun owner in this
country. Whether that might be a "new" class 3 owner or one in CA who
decides detachable mags aren't a "threat" to his community.

But, as people point out --you be the first ONE. Yep, everyone is cowering
in fear because they know full-well they will get a door smashed down at
3am or be locked up after a traffic stop. And, it wouldn't necessarily be
by the feds, but but their own locals who will do it.

Contrast this with Illegal Immigration: Locals do NOT enforce and the feds
do NOT enforce. Every one of them have been given a rather explicit wink
and nod over the years that this is "OK" and NOT to enforce it. Even the
banks give money to the Illimms so they can buy houses here to stay. The
local hospitals are required to provide medical care which the Illimms do NOT
pay back. Everything shows that they are a significant drain on the
health and education systems in this country which they do NOT replenish.
But who cares? The people making the rules send their kids to private
schools (that the Illimms do NOT use) and use different clinics and hospitals.

Yeah, be the first one. Be the one to get thrown in jail, lose YOUR job,
your house and your insurance coverage. Your credit rating will be ruined,
banks won't loan to you, and you will get continuous calls from bill collectors.
Do what the Illimms do and change your SS# and you'll get charged with
stealing/creating a false identity. No clean slate for you, Mr. America.

March on DC --even unarmed-- and there will be many in the halls of power
jumpping for joy since they will have 10's of thousands of new "domestic
terrorists" to justify more draconion laws tearing away our freedoms, bigger
budgets for federal agencies, and more kicking in of doors and the inspiration
of fear among the public. Forget Iraq, the "enemy" is here, they'll say on
BOTH sides of the aisle.

The Illimms who were made legal, just bide their time as they are quietly
joined by more Illimms INSIDE THE GATES. Meanwhile, the power brokers
just keep their jets fueled and ready to fly to Europe in case the USA goes
the way of Haiti. They'll just follow Aristide's example saying all is well right
up to the last possible minute and then split the country. They've made their
money and have places outside the USA they can go......

The Democrats sold out this country to socialism a long time ago. As a
longtime Republican, I can see my own party has sold us out now. They're
not unlike the Partiya members who sold off everything not nailed down
in the Soviet Union before its so-called collapse.

So how will the USA be re-organised???

TX35
April 7, 2006, 10:43 AM
Do I see a foreshadowing of a revolution????

Third_Rail
April 7, 2006, 10:52 AM
So, a march of armed people on Washington, D.C.




You don't think that perchance the anti-gunners would slip in a few "accidents" to get the military called in to arrest everyone or anything, right?


There's a good reason such a march hasn't happened, I think.

1911 guy
April 7, 2006, 10:53 AM
An American philosopher whose name eludes me for the moment said our society was long overdue for a revolt. He's been dead for almost a hundred years. Along the flowchart of force (ballot box, soap box, jury box, bullet box) how far are we? I'm really nor sure. Our society show vestiges of hope, but only time will tell whether they are in decline or resurgence.

LAR-15
April 7, 2006, 01:23 PM
Three NFA registered machineguns have been used in crimes- all post 1986

Correia
April 7, 2006, 03:32 PM
If you want the NFA owning community to become a political force, go buy some NFA items. If 10 million gun owners bought a .22 suppresor (still being manufactured every day) and paid the stamp ($400 total investment) the government would have to notice and take that group seriously.

armedandsafe
April 7, 2006, 04:31 PM
Bingo! A Million Gun March

The thing is that we don't have to physically march on DC (District of Criminals?) If we ALL send a letter to our hired hands (three letters from each of us) we can make almost as much of an impact.

Then again, remember the "Line Across America?" We could pick a day and go out in our own areas and show support for one another and the Constitution. How about a relay across America, where we pass a firearm (Musket, perhaps, for the symbolism?) from one to another?

Pops

Headless Thompson Gunner
April 7, 2006, 05:02 PM
Peacefully owning a machine gun without the official papers is no different than peacefully living in this country without the offical papers.

Owning a machine gun without the proper government documentation does not, in and of itself, harm anyone else. Living in the States without the proper government documentation does not, in and of itself, harm anyone else.

Neither should be illegal.

Nobody here seems to mind that there are millions of people breaking the law by owning undocumented machineguns. It's OK for some of usto break some of the laws that we don't like.

Yet when millions immigrants do the same thing, suddenly the Law is Sacred. How dare they violate our Holy Law!


:rolleyes:

Third_Rail
April 7, 2006, 05:06 PM
I'll get flamed for this, and so will you, but well put!. The main issue with that is the welfare state we have, not people wanting to come here.

Phetro
April 7, 2006, 05:27 PM
Peacefully owning a machine gun without the official papers is no different than peacefully living in this country without the offical papers.

Uhhh, yes it is. Much different. See, owning a weapon hurts no one. Illegal aliens hurt everyone's economy, national morale, the education (or at least intelligence) level, cultural norms...that's an awful lot of damage.

Owning a machine gun without the proper government documentation does not, in and of itself, harm anyone else. Living in the States without the proper government documentation does not, in and of itself, harm anyone else.

Neither should be illegal.

Uhhh, your first point is true. The bus seems to have left without you on the second point, however (see above for more on this).

Nobody here seems to mind that there are millions of people breaking the law by owning undocumented machineguns. It's OK for some of usto break some of the laws that we don't like.

It's not because we don't like them. It's because they're unconstitutional. Keeping illegal aliens out is not, as I'm sure you agree. Especially when they're waving their nation of origin's flag over our own, upside-down one. Or would you still prefer they be rewarded with amnesty for their dishonorable activities and outright hatred for real American citizens?

Yet when millions immigrants do the same thing, suddenly the Law is Sacred. How dare they violate our Holy Law!

That "Holy Law" happens to be a constitutionally-sound one, and a good one. The machine gun law has obviously had no good effect, and no effect at all other than to subjugate the liberty of the People to the will of the government.

Henry Bowman
April 7, 2006, 05:32 PM
Peacefully owning a machine gun without the official papers is no different than peacefully living in this country without the offical papers.

Owning a machine gun without the proper government documentation does not, in and of itself, harm anyone else. Living in the States without the proper government documentation does not, in and of itself, harm anyone else.

Neither should be illegal.I disagree. The NFA is unConstitutional, I agree, However, a sovereign country has the right to secure its borders and to account for (i.e., register) any non-citizens who enter. You do not have a "right" to import anything into the US. That is to be regulated by Congress. Likewise, unless you are a US citizen, you do not have a "right" to enter this country. Non-citizens enter subject to regulation. You do need "papers" to cross international borders. There is nothing unreasonable or unConstitutional about that.

antarti
April 7, 2006, 06:15 PM
One million nfa toting gun nuts marching on the capital... I like where this is going

I just wish the Constitution had a gun...

Headless Thompson Gunner
April 7, 2006, 06:28 PM
Pax said it best in another thread: Complaining that illegals break the law is just a smokescreen. If it was the act of law-breaking that bothered folks, then the simple, direct, obvious solution is to eliminate the law. Make illegal immigrants, well, umm, legal. Voila! No more law-breaking.

But any such proposal is resoundingly shouted down.

Nope, it ain't about illegals breaking the law. It's about not wanting any more Mexicans (or any other nationality) in "our" country. America is for Americans, and all that guff...

Personally, I don't care one whit about how many Mexicans there are living and working here peacefully. So long as they aren't sucking down all of my tax dollars, then they aren't harming me or anyone else.

Yeah, I suppose if you work some mindless unskilled labor job for an unreasonably high wage, then you may soon find yourself out of work. But that isn't the immigrants' fault. That's simply the natural and expected outcome in any competitive/free market. If you can't compete, you have nobody to blame but yourself. Welcome to the real world.

I suppose it's tempting to try to evade the harsh realities of the free market. It's always easier to rig the rules of the game in your favor, than it is to win on equal footing. Thus all the wheeping and gnashing about how illegals are "bad" for the economy.

Anyone remember back to the early days of the debate on the AWB, when Ruger pushed for the 10-round mag limit so that their low-cap semi-autos would be more competitive with all the high-cap guns out there? See any parallels??





Want to solve the illegal immigration problem?

Make it a crime to provide free government/social services to anyone who can't prove citizenship. Put some real security in place at our borders (all of them, not just along the Rio) so that jihadists and gansters and criminals can't get in without causing a ruckus and getting caught. Maybe eliminate the minimum wage, so that everyone can compete equally for all the bottom-feeder jobs out there.

That's all it would take. Easy, eh? You could right the law in about three paragraphs.

Of course, this doesn't do anything to prevent Mexicans from living here. It simply ensures that Mexicans can't live here at everyone else's expense. So the xenophobes will never agree to it. Sadly, they seem to be the majority these days.

Maxwell
April 7, 2006, 06:43 PM
Uhhh, yes it is. Much different. See, owning a weapon hurts no one. Illegal aliens hurt everyone's economy, national morale, the education (or at least intelligence) level, cultural norms...that's an awful lot of damage.

The migration itself is not harmful at all, its the free ride our politicians willingly dish out in the process of vote whoaring thats going to be disasterous. Willingly letting illegals stay, willingly paying for their stay, and willingly letting employers break the law to keep them.
Thats what does damage.

I think the problem with our numbers is that one side is fighitng for its next meal, we are fighting for what many only see as a hobby.

If your not willing to fight to keep your weapon, the other side will just call the bluff. If your not even willing to march or even simply make firearms rights your single issue for an election, politicians will focus on less devisive issues to get your vote.
So now we're choosing our next leader based on his immigration views... what that has to do with getting our gun rights back, Im not too sure.

Sam Adams
April 7, 2006, 07:07 PM
Nobody here seems to mind that there are millions of people breaking the law by owning undocumented machineguns.

Oh, really? I'm sure that there are many tens of thousands, maybe even 100,000, but "millions" of undocumented machineguns? I don't think so.

...and even if there were, the laws against them arguably violated the Constitution. Quite a different matter from someone being in this country contrary to this country's laws. You see, we have a right as a society to set our boundaries and enforce them, and to allow or disallow entry to anyone who otherwise has no right to live here.

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