Traffic stop, CHL comes through again


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Jeff OTMG
April 21, 2003, 01:02 AM
I was coming back from a family Easter function in Tulsa today and decided to take old Route 66 back to OKC. I was driving my girlfriends car, chatting with her, and not really paying attention to my speed. More concerned about the neat twists on the old hwy. BAM! Got nailed at 75 in a 55 by an Oklahoma County Sheriffs Deputy. Normally I run full electronic evasion equipment, but since my car was in Austin, I was flying blind. He got me flatfooted and there was no denying it. Gave him my 'Officer, before we do this, for your safety, as well as my own, I need to inform you that I have a Concealed Handgun License and I am currently armed' speech. He asked where the gun was. A Glock 27 in front of my seat and a Kahr P9 Covert in my right front pocket. He asks if I like guns. I LOVE GUNS!!! He takes my info and goes away for awhile then returns with a warning. I was a happy camper. He was friendly and professional throughout even offering where the speed limits change so I could watch my speed on the rest of my journey. All in all, an excellent experience.

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sm
April 21, 2003, 01:25 AM
:D
Glad it worked out.

Darrin
April 21, 2003, 08:16 AM
Interesting.

I've heard people say, "Don't volunteer info to the police."

I've heard others say, "You should inform the officer...."

Glad it worked out for you, but I'm still confused. :) :confused:

El Tejon
April 21, 2003, 08:26 AM
Darrin, it depends.:D

Jeff, glad you made out OK. Drive safely.

Greybeard
April 21, 2003, 08:38 AM
Darrin Quote: "Glad it worked out for you, but I'm still confused. "

El Tejon Reply: "It depends." (As usual ;) )

Requirements can vary greatly from state to state. "Check your local listings."

In TX, we are REQUIRED to show it pronto if carrying.

El Tejon
April 21, 2003, 09:00 AM
Yeah, Grey, I was all set to show mine a couple of weeks ago. However, since I drive like an 82 year old woman ("I got the cruise set at 37 mph, guys."), there's little concern for being stopped.:D It was nice of all those Texicanos driving behind me to show that I was #1 to them.

JitsuGuy
April 21, 2003, 10:13 AM
I live in Tulsa and yes it is a requirement to inform police if you're carrying.

Jits

pax
April 21, 2003, 10:48 AM
My husband got stopped awhile back. Officer asked for license, registration, and proof of insurance. Husband handed him license and CCW and said, "My registration and proof of insurance are in the console, and you need to know that my handgun is also in that console. How do you want to proceed?"

Officer said, "Don't give them to me and don't reach into that compartment. Just sit there for a minute." Took husband's license and ran it, then came back to the window and sent him on his way without bothering to look at registration/proof of insurance. No ticket.

Apparently the paperwork wasn't worth the hassle/adrenalin rush of dealing with the gun -- and since the CCW proved husband is generally a responsible citizen why bother?

pax

If everything's under control, you're going too slow. -- Mario Andretti

12-34hom
April 21, 2003, 11:27 AM
Jeff, and here all this time i thought Officer Friendly was just an urban myth......;)

Who loves ya baby.

12-34hom

Jeff OTMG
April 21, 2003, 11:29 AM
Texas and Oklahoma are both 'required notification while carrying' states. My Texas CHL is even matched to my DL so if stopped they find out about the permit anyway, though that feature does not work in Oklahoma. Indiana does not have manditory notification, but when I was stopped by a deputy for running a red light I notified him of the firearm and was released with a verbal warning. In Austin when stopped for equipment violations on one of my motorcycles I was issued tickets, but was then told how to get out of them by the officer, so $325 in tickets turned out to be $10. My son has had the same experience on a traffic stop. I am a BIG believer in letting the officer know as a courtesy, they seem to appreciate it, what they do about it is up to them.

cratz2
April 21, 2003, 02:06 PM
The only time I've ever been stopped for speeding, I didn't have a gun on my person but I had literally 9 or 10 guns in the trunk as we were on the way back from a serious range day.

When I carry, it is on my person, not lose in the seat/floor etc... I think I wouldn't volunteer information while I was in the car but if the situation escalated from some reason (not by my doing, I assure you) and I was asked to step out of the car, I would inform the officer with my hands raised that I had the permit and that I was carrying and where the gun was.

10-Ring
April 21, 2003, 02:09 PM
If you approach most situations calmly & matter of rfactually, more times than not you will end up with a positive outcome....of course some good karma comes into play too ;) Glad everything worked out ok for ya!

El Tejon
April 21, 2003, 02:28 PM
crat, if you do that and that's just ducky, remember you may set off some conditioned response in the copper, i.e. the people that the po-po meet and greet on "the street" who raise their hands upon approach of the coppers have been around the block and often trigger the "predator/ prey" response. Whatever you do, just be cool and don't do this:

When I was a LEO, had a guy who just got his little pink card (Indiana license to carry handgun) and for some reason waited to buy his first pistol, a M66, when he had his permit. He drove to a downtown gun shoppe and paid and picked up his pistol. Loaded on the spot and bought off the rack holster.

He got pulled over near the county building by eastside coppers for a taillight or expired license plate. The coppers (veteran FTO and a rookie) approached. As they did the copper on the driver's side saw our driver with little pink card in one hand and, that's right, the M66 in the other (not pointed at the copper). Thank goodness no one got hurt! Hilarity (in hindsight) ensued in the form of civil action and administrative action. After consultation with the boss, the handsome young prosecutor assigned the matter decided to forego criminal charges.

I know I've told this before. Don't do that. Just be cool. Helps with women and coppers.:D

As my friend the head of WLPD dets sez, "if you DON'T show me yours, I won't show you mine.";)

Partisan Ranger
April 21, 2003, 03:55 PM
In Virginia, if you have a CCW, your record is flagged in the DMV system, so a Va. cop should know you have a CCW by running your plate.

I haven't been pulled over since I got my CCW, but I think I would inform the guy to be safe. I would bet more often then not this honesty would net you a warning rather than a ticket.

Matt G
April 21, 2003, 05:09 PM
I had to write a ticket to a fireman with a C.H.L. last month. He was polite, friendly, and completely free of B.S. I wanted nothing more than to hand him his DL and CHL back and turn on my heel. Unfortunately, I was on a duty that required me to write for that particular offense. It killed me to do it. I handed him his citation, and guy sincerely thanked me. At this point I wanted to cry. :(

A C.H.L. won't necessarily get you off, but if the issue of a ticket vs. a warning is in question, the C.H.L. gets the warning, on MY traffic stop.

KFD147
April 21, 2003, 06:17 PM
Matt G-

Shame on you for picking on a defenseless Firefighter.:p I have been pulled over by several officers and never get a chance to give them my DL and CHL. They walk up to the window and say" Ah man it's you? Slow your butt down." And get back in the car and cruise for another violator. FD and PD have a real tight relationship where I work. But don't be fooled. If it was something serious I would be seeing the judge just like everybody else.:rolleyes:


Thanks
Jason:cool:

4 eyed six shooter
April 21, 2003, 06:28 PM
When I was an LEO, I always liked it when people were up front with me. When someone told me they were CCW and produced their CCW permit, I usually figured that I was dealing with a non criminal and was much more likely to just give a warning instead of a ticket. Honesty goes a long way with most cops.
Good shooting, John K

Bowlcut
April 21, 2003, 06:58 PM
Well from what Ive read and my dad(permit and firearm carring citizen) TN doesnt require you to inform the office that you are carrying. But my common sense as a younger person and possibly could be misstaken for a thug at times says it depends :D . When i get my permit and will be carring all the time, and i may get pulled over Id likely inform the LEO that I was carring. Espcialy if it was in the glove box and I had to go to it for paperwork. If its in semi visiable area on you while in the car Id definaly hand over my permit and inform the LEO i was carring.

As was said really depends on situation. I know dad rarely...i had to force him a few times, to let the LEO know he was armed. Once we had the police show up for a disturbance on our property back home I made him inform the officer he had his gun on him as the officer was already jarred for the situation. After all was clear we ended up talking guns to the LEO for a while... So just really depends.

But sometimes it will work out for you as a way to not get out of a ticket but to get some discression thrown your way. I personaly hate people trying to "get out of a ticket". If you get caught you get caught deal with it....but if the officer does do something nice for you cause he sees you arent a BG then thats different.

CZ 75 BD
April 21, 2003, 07:09 PM
and interested others, www.packing.org is a handy state-by-state compendium of useful information. Among other items, it advises when one is required by statute to declare armed status. :cool:

blades67
April 21, 2003, 07:53 PM
Honesty goes a long way with most cops.

That's for sure! I was stopped for running a red light (just missed the yellow by that >-< much:o ) coming off a side street from an apartment complex. As the officer approached the car I informed him about my gun. He reached in my window and removed it from my left hip and set it on the roof of my car. He then asked if I knew why he had stopped me. I said "Because that light was a little red?" He grinned a little and asked for the usual paperwork, went back to his car and thought about it for a minute, then came back to my window, handed my paperwork, told me slow down, that my gun was still on top of my car and to wait until he got back into his car and left before retrieving it and to have a nice night. :cool:

cool45auto
April 21, 2003, 08:41 PM
I've been pulled over twice and both times when the cops asked what I was carrying they ended up wanting to see the gun. One was really interested in the grip and the other said I should get a Glock!:rolleyes:

I love living in a gun-friendly state!:D

pbman
April 22, 2003, 12:04 AM
Last time i was pulled over by a oklhoma state trooper, i told him i had a CCP and a conceled weapon.

He said "ok let me see you drives licence and insurance card"

He didn't ask about or mention the connceled gun.

SapperLeader
April 22, 2003, 07:23 AM
IT makes up for some horror stories Ive heard. Im in a national guard unit currently on active duty, and my squad leader is a sherriffs deputy in civillian life. One of his favorite stories is of the time he stopped someone for speeding(72 in a 65), found out the had the chl, were armed, and then proceeded to drag them out the open window, cuff them, and made them sit in his cruisor for a few hours while he dealt with paperwork. The truly sad part about the situation is that my squadleader has a civilian chl, not just his sherrifs department license and claims to support civillian chl. To this day he doesnt see his actions as being over the top, and says he will act like this for every chl holder he stops. After being forced to listen to his stories for so long, its good to hear so many positive stories on this forum about traffic stops.

69mag
April 22, 2003, 07:44 AM
20 MPH over the speed limit. It's people like you that need to pay. Speed limits are for our safety so, SLOW DOWN MAN!!!! Set the cruse control and think about others making it home to see their family & friends. A vehicle is like a loaded gun, it can kill so, keep the safety on.

Darrin
April 22, 2003, 08:33 AM
CZ, thanks for the link. I'd been to that site before but couldn't find it again.

(.com, .org, whatever.... :rolleyes: ;))

esef
April 22, 2003, 10:55 AM
69mag has a good point. All of us here are so anal about good gun safety yet so nonchalant about safety on the road. Car accidents kill more people than accidental gun shootings and yet many of blow through yellow/red light, regularly follow cars too close and exceed the speed limit. I don't want to debate the economics of the speed limits (saving gas), but its common sense that the slower you go, the more time you have to react.

Now, I know that we all believe on the randomness of crime and that is why we feel that we should always be armed to protect ourselves, but how about when driving? Car accidents are just as random.

I've got three young children. Do you think it would matter to me if they got hurt or worse in a car accident caused by someone running a red light or someone speeding or someone pulling a trigger of a gun?

Ed

Jesse H
April 22, 2003, 01:55 PM
On many of the wide and open roads in Texas, 75 is not fast by any means...especially if you're a capable driver.

Mike Irwin
April 22, 2003, 02:00 PM
Nice.

Around here (Northern Virginia) I'd probably be face down on the side of the road wearing funky bracelets...

TheeBadOne
April 22, 2003, 02:03 PM
MV accident stats have had basicly the same 2 top factors for years. Alcohol is........ #2. The #1 factor involved in MV accidents for many many many years running is........ Excessive speed!

spacemanspiff
April 22, 2003, 02:05 PM
it really isnt that difficult to avoid getting pulled over. simply obey the traffic laws.
of course, i couldnt bear to allow myself to adopt the bad driving habits of my mother, she is THE worst driver on the road, has no tickets, maybe has 3 total over 30+ yrs of driving. her guardian angels must be working overtime to protect her on the road.

David Park
April 22, 2003, 02:28 PM
If pulled over, I was prepared to notify the officer, since my driver's license is flagged anyway. However, last year I was in an auto accident, which wasn't in my mental "plan" for dealing with the cops. An officer pulled up right after the accident and said "I saw the whole thing." (I wasn't at fault. :) ) After running my license, he called me over and said "where's your gun?" :eek:
I told him, and he didn't disarm me (I think he wanted to, but not in front of the other drivers) but told me just to keep my hands away from that area. He said he supported RKBA, but he also showed me a scar on his arm where he'd been shot and said he didn't want to get shot again. :eek: Overall it went well.

BPNovum
April 22, 2003, 07:06 PM
In December of last year I was driving a little too fast in the great southern state of Mississippi out in the middle of no where. I was running way late for an appointment and was running way over the limit when out of nowhere appears a MHP car the other direction.

I knew I was nailed, so I pulled over and waited for him to turn around and pull in behind me. As I was taught in the military, I put my hands on the wheel and waited for him to approach my car. When he asked for my DL, I handed him my DL and CWL. I am from Texas and carry a FL CWL. He looked at the DL, then to the CWL and back and forth....

Then he asked, "How come you be carrying a FL CWL when you be staying in Texas?".... A reasonable question.... I explained, I travel a lot and a Texas CHL would not be valid in the state of MS whereas the FL CWL is. He seemed to accept that explaination (which was great since it was the truth).

He asked if I was carrying a weapon. I said I was. He asked where it was and I told him it was in my briefcase on the floor next to me. He said "How about we leave it in that briefcase on the floor?" I agreed and he handed me my CWL back and went back to his car to process my DL.

He returned and handed me the ticket (hey, I was lucky he didn't hall me in) and suggested I slow it down a bit. All in all I still felt like I caught a break. That was confirmed when I talked to the JPs office. They said they couldn't believe he hadn't taken me in. "He doesn't cut anyone a break" they said...

Anyway, glad it worked out well. Sorry about the novel here... :cool:

JohnBT
April 23, 2003, 02:26 PM
65 m.p.h.? 75 m.p.h.? Try cruising at 75 on I-95 between Richmond and D.C. and you'll have a semi 3 feet off your bumper with his high beams in your mirror. And that's the slow lane.

It's safer to move with the traffic flow - or get off and use U.S. 1.

John

Jeff OTMG
April 24, 2003, 12:59 AM
The limit had been 65, but when you cross into Oklahoma County it drops to 55 and I didn't notice. The car is a BMW 330Ci Sport (3 series convertible with the Sport package) and is TOO much fun to drive 55 on a U.S. Hwy. I did slow down for towns, but the Oklahoma countryside is sparse and most traffic runs on the turnpike right next to Rte 66. What you would really hate is my BMW 740i Sport. I ran my house in Austin to the house in OKC, 415 miles, in exactly 5 hours. That was from 01:00 to 06:00 and I-35 the whole way running full electronics. Normally I do it in 6 hours, 7 if I am in my truck. 5 is a personal best that I will never surpass.

rick458
April 24, 2003, 01:16 AM
It's the slow ones that get you killed, driving 500-600 miles at 55mph will make you catatonic.:(
also put your reg and ins some place your pistol isn't and the Officer will like you MUCH better

LiquidTension
April 24, 2003, 02:45 AM
There is a BIG difference between driving fast and driving dangerously. Most of the time, speeding is safer than doing the speed limit. One of my buddies used to be a cop. He told me that it's more dangerous to go slow when everyone else is going fast because you're impeding the flow of traffic and causing other motorists to brake on the highway and change lanes to avoid you. He gave one old guy a ticket for impeding traffic (old guy was doing a little under speed limit, everyone else was doing 10-15 over). Old guy started yelling and complaining "I didn't do anything wrong boo hoo." Yeah, nothing wrong except putting everyone else on the road around you at risk.

Logic dictates that you should go with the flow of traffic. I speed all the time, but I'm never the fastest car on the road, and I rarely hold up other motorists. At least I move out of the way when somebody is driving faster than I.

That said, I don't speed much (maybe 5 over) when traffic isn't speeding. I did get pulled over one time when I wasn't paying attention. Cop told me I was doing 51 in a 35 which was BS because I shift to 5th gear at 45mph and I was still in 4th - I would have noticed the engine racing. Honesty got me $505 in tickets instead of 5-10 in fed prison. I never lie to cops, but sometimes I omit certain bits of information :D

esef
April 24, 2003, 09:38 AM
When I was referring to speeding in my last post, I meant that as driving too fast for the situation. Heck, I've been on I-95 and was almost side swiped by a semi because I was only going 70 Mph and he was pissed off because I wouldn't move out of the slow lane. I agree, the best way to stay safe is to drive with the flow of the traffic, but at the same time it doesn't make any sense that these cars going 80 Mph leave only two car lengths between themselves. Just plain stupid.

NukemJim
April 24, 2003, 05:02 PM
"Logic dictates that you should go with the flow of traffic. "

I am a little confused here. I thought we were talking about the laws concerning speeding.

Since when does logic and the law have any relationship except by coincidence ? Whitness the AWB, or the CCW laws in many states.

If I got a ticket for going above the posted minimum and below the posted maximum I would take it to court ( would cost me a days pay OUCH! ) and ask the judge to explain to me why I got a ticket for obeying the law.

As far as obstructing traffic if the other drivers were not breaking the law by speeding they would not be obstructed.


The above is just my opinion only

NukemJim

esef
April 24, 2003, 07:28 PM
Jim,

I sympathize with your point and even agree with you. Just an FYI- I know a guy who had gone to court in VA and beat the ticket by stating that he was following the flow of traffic and felt that had he had driven slower, he would be causing a hazard on the road. The aurguemnt worked when the police officer stated that he was traveling the same speed as the traffic.

I really wish I could drive drive the speed limit on I-95, but I can't without putting myself and family in danger of those semi trailers passing and cutting me off like they're on a NASCAR track.:fire:

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