Possibly a stupid question


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MilsurpShooter
April 7, 2006, 02:56 AM
I have 2 milsurps now, a Yugo M-48 and a Mosin 91/30. Have Surplus ammo for both, the corrosive kind, FMJ all the fun stuff. I enjoy cleaning so it's not a big deal. Friend of mine recently told me that he can't believe I shoot Milsurp ammo in my guns as it will "surely wear the rifling out"

The 2 rifles in question have very bright, nearly mirror bores, and very strong rifling and his comment has, unfortunately, planted the seed of doubt in my mind. What type of damage can I be doing to my rifles by firing the FMJ? I'd say I've put at least 800 rounds through the M-48 since I've gotten it. This weekend will be the first trip with the Mosin

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Sam
April 7, 2006, 03:15 AM
Won't hurt them a bit,
Clean them well and there will be no problems.

Sam

Devonai
April 7, 2006, 07:35 AM
Windex or any other mild, ammonia-based cleaner will best neutralize the corrosive salts in the powder residue. A good cleaning with Hoppe's may be good enough, but starting off with Windex might make you feel better.

I wish I could take a picture of the inside of the barrel of my Enfield #4 to show you what happens if you don't properly clean after using corrosive ammo. Suffice it to say that it wasn't my fault. The rifle shoots 4" groups at 100 yards, which is good enough for my purposes. I only paid $75 for it.

critter
April 7, 2006, 08:21 AM
Won't hurt it a bit if you clean it properly. My method follows-seems to work very well.

Go to WM and buy a gallon of the CHEAPEST windshield washer fluid you can find (couple of dollars). Put some in a small plastic squeeze bottle with a spout (like honey comes in for example) and take it to the range.

AS SOON as you finish shooting (while the gun is still warm preferrably), squirt a good dose of the stuff down the barrel. It will neutralize the salts, the warm gun will dry it in a couple of minutes and you are good to go home.

When you get home, clean it as you would any other gun. Store the gun but check it two days later to be sure you didn't miss any spots of corrosive salts.

Your gun will remain prisitne for your grandkids!

MilsurpShooter
April 7, 2006, 12:08 PM
Thanks. But with the corrosive I understand. Usually use the outers Foaming bore cleaner for the trip home, run a dry patch or 7 through it, then windex and hoppes. I think what my friend meant was the actual bullet itself damaging the bore not the corrosive primer, regarding the metal of the bullet on the metal of the barrel

Bridger
April 7, 2006, 01:20 PM
Your friend doesn't know what he is talking about. Some guy at the range said the cupro-nickel plating on my 7.5 Swiss GP11 ammo would ruin my K-31, never mind that both are Swiss surplus and the K-31 bores are all pretty much perfect.

As for corrosive, cleaning, all you need is water, I prefer hot water to get it to evaporate. That is what neutralizes the corrosive salts, not the Ammonia in windex. Ammonia is the ingredient in anti-copper solvents and why patches come out blue. I suspect people say "windex" just because someone realized the spray bottle was handy to take to the range, and from there things got confused.

I just put water on the stove when I get back and pour it down the bore and over the bolt face. Never had rusting issues.

Enjoy your cheap surplus! :D

dfaugh
April 7, 2006, 01:35 PM
When I first started acquiring milsurps, and shooting milsurp ammo, I'd never heard about corrosive ammo/primers..So I cleaned the the same way I cleaned my other guns...No ammonia, no water, just Hoppes and a little oil after I was done...Never a problem with corrosion in the bores...I think the whole "corrosive ammo" thing is overblown. I have stopped using milsurp ammo in most of my guns as the accuracy is deplorable in most cases.

Red Tornado
April 7, 2006, 02:13 PM
What are you thinking?!? Using military ammo in military rifles? Folly I say!!! Foolhardiness! Next thing you'll be shooting target ammo in target rifles. :D

Yep, clean like everyone says, and they'll be fine. Odds are that those 2 rifles have never seen non-corrosive ammo.
RT

Shrinkmd
April 7, 2006, 04:14 PM
I have tried asking a similar question at times, and the consensus appears that you may start losing accuracy around 5000 rounds, but making into a smoothbore will likely take way more than that, especially since you aren't shooting at semi auto or full auto speed. Plus your shoulder might wear out first.

I am going to try and do a torture test on my Mosin and see if I can really get to 5000 (hopefully more). I assume that without a benchrest or handloads that for off hand or front bag only shooting at 100 yds that we're tallking more than 5000 rounds before groups noticibly widen.

I am still curious about headspace growing or other concerns about putting that many rounds through a 70 year old receiver/barrel. I guess time will tell.

iamkris
April 7, 2006, 05:48 PM
he can't believe I shoot Milsurp ammo in my guns as it will "surely wear the rifling out"


That is the silliest thing I've ever heard.

The hearsay and inaccurate information running around in the fringes of the gun circles is sometimes staggering.

Onmilo
April 7, 2006, 05:53 PM
You won't wear the rifles out any time in the near future.
Keep the bores cleaned and those rifles should still be shootable long after you are gone.

I like a little Dawn dish soap and water mixed in an old detergent bottle, couple or three dollops of soap to the water, for use to neutralize corrosive compounds.
Run several saturated patches through the bore or squirt some of the soapy water down the barrel and follow with several clean patches then clean the gun as you normally would with whatever product suits your fancy.
Regular Hoppes #9 was originally designed as a corrosive priming compound neutralizer and still works well today though I still like the added insurance of washing the bore with some soapy water too.
A film of oil to follow up and the guns will stand corrosive ammunition for as long as the stuff remains available.

As for 7.62X54 I don't trust any of this ammunition except Sellier and Bellot and American production to be non-corrosive.
Like 8mm Mauser, most Mil-surplus stuff is corrosive and you should treat it as such regardless of how it was advertised or sold.

MilsurpShooter
April 7, 2006, 09:28 PM
Thanks guys. Like I said I didn't want to believe it but that little shred of doubt implanted itself firmly. Can't wait until tomorrow and see how this thing shoots, wonder if I can make a proper sniper with the hex reciever :evil:

1911JMB
April 7, 2006, 10:41 PM
More than once I have shot surplus corrosive 8mm ammo through my mauser, sprayed it down with rem clean, then waited as much as a month before properly cleaning it. The bore is still shiney.

armoredman
April 8, 2006, 12:10 AM
You can wear out a Mosin? Really? This I gotta see....

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