A lady friend of mine has a problem with her G19


April 7, 2006, 09:14 PM
Hello most knoledgeable high roaders :). I have a problem on my hands, and I figured I would ask for advice. I went shooting with a woman I am friends with at school, tonight, and she brought along her g19 (I believe it was a g19, it could have been a g22, I will find out for sure tonight), and she had numerous issues with it. Let me explain:

Since she is pretty new to shooting, she first started out by not really hitting the small torso target at around 21 feet. After having her change her grip, and how she was using her trigger finger, she managed to get pretty much all of the shots on the paper, which I feel is a big acomplishment. Everything was going well until an ugly problem eventually reared its head, after she shot maybe 60 to 70 rounds.

She would shoot the pistol, and would get all sorts of jams. Any jam you can imagine, she got, everytime she pulled the trigger. To give you an idea, lets assume the mag is fully loaded, the slide is racked, ones in the pipe ready. She fires it, and rather then it loading a new round into the chamber, it would either (A) stove pipe the empty brass, (B) the actual bullet would be into the beginning of the chamber, but its caught and will not chamber (C) The round is caught before entering the chamber, Or (d) pretty much anything else like that.

I would clear the jam for her, give the firearm back, and then the same thing would happen. Now I personally shot atleast 20 rounds though it, with no problem whatso ever, and pretty damn good accuracy. So I am really stumped as to what it could be. Watching her shoot, it does seem that she is limp wristing it somewhat, but not to the point that I think would caue a problem.

Also, the ammo that was used was a mix of UMC yellow box, and range reloads, same results either way. Same results with either mag that came with the pistol. As a FYI the pistol was bought new, and my guess has under 300 rounds through it.

What do you guys think it could be? Realistically the grip is to big for her hands (she has small hands) in my opinion. She is not the strongest gal on the planet either, and I could tell after more then 50 shots, she was tiring a bit. So limp wristing could be a factor, but I can't believe that the limp wristing is the entire story. I just want her to have a reliable firearm, so she can enjoy shooting more. Any advice anyone can provide would be greatly apperciated...

Some last tid bits of info: She had the same problem before tonight, with diffrent ammo then what was shot tonight. So I really don't think its directly ammo related. Also, I noticed on two failure to feed occasions, that the round was actually cocked to the left on the feed ramp. So basically rather then going up the feed ramp straight, the entire cartridge was angled, and stood 0 chance of going into the chamber. I inspected the mags, and nothing seemed out of wack, and the spring pressure seemed good.

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April 7, 2006, 09:27 PM
Limp wristing is the problem I suspect. If she is getting tired that quick then she is not producing enough of a stable platform for the firearm to do its thing.

Keep the practice times short until she builds up some strength.

Also - if she is set on the GLOCK hardware then look into a model 23 with the smaller dimensions or contact some one like........


He can reduce that grip and make it much more user friendly for her.

just my 2 cents.

April 7, 2006, 09:44 PM
She really isn't set on any specific pistol.

Considering that I could fire rounds right after it jammed for her, with no issues, then hand it back to her and it would jam, I think the limp wristing must be the issue. Do you know of any guides/or even pictures that show the best grip for a glock, for someone with small hands? I forgot to mention that she is a Lefty, so its hard for me to show her the proper grip that a lefty should use.

April 7, 2006, 09:56 PM
GOtta be a limp wrist issue since it functioned flawlessly when you shot it.

April 7, 2006, 09:57 PM
Not sure about pics but make sure she is high on the back strap and that her thumbs ride one over the other. In other words her primary hand thumb will be high just under the slide with her secondary thumb tight under the primary. The primary fingers should lay neatly in the grooves of her secondary.

Easier said than understood without pics - I know!

I'm no expert mind you but I use the GLOCK 22 for a service weapon and thats my prefered grip which happens to be the way the range master teaches it as well.

Make sure she is keeping that primary arm stiff and taught as well. This acts as a solid base to allow the springs and recoil action to function properly. All this togeather should allow the "tupperware" to function properly.

Give me a minute and I will attach some pics of my grip.

April 7, 2006, 10:07 PM
The heal of the support hand should be tight against the grip as well. I know this is a crappy pic but I can snap some other ones if you would like.

April 7, 2006, 11:29 PM
If its a 22 the 23 will be shorter in the grip, but the same width. If neither of those work a 19 (same size as the 23) would be a good move with lower recoil of its 9mm chambering. If it is a 19 then I'd suggest a used S&W model 10 for practice until she builds up her strength and form. I know it sounds unconvential but shooting my old S&W M&P (the gun that became the model 10) has improved my auto gun shooting. You don't have to worry about seating rounds in a mag, seating the mag in the pistol, (nor limp wrist induced malfunctions in her case). The greatest benefit is the long DA pull that forces you to slow down into a good rhythm. It teaches you to take time and fully re-align the sites between shots. Plenty of old timers told me I'd see these results if I started shooting a wheelgun. Well a few weeks a bought the above mentioned M&P and I love it. As stated above, they were right :D. Another good thing in your situation with this lady is the mild and downright pleasant recoil of standard pressure 38 Spl. loads. They're cheap to shoot too. I suggested the S&W model 10 because there are plenty of good used ones floating around at very reasonable prices. May sound crazy but try it.

April 8, 2006, 12:52 AM
I just want her to have a reliable firearm, so she can enjoy shooting more. Any advice anyone can provide would be greatly apperciated... Have her get a revolver. She's limp-wristing the Glock, and if it's starting after 50 rounds, it's because of fatigue. It may improve with training, as her hands strengthen. But it may not -- the grips on the Glock aren't designed with small hands in mind.

April 8, 2006, 01:35 AM
My wife wanted to learn to shoot and obtain a concealed carry permit. I bought her a Glock 19 and set her up in a shooting class. She had nothing but failures with the G19, and soon became discourged. The instructor suggested a revolver because he said the G19 failures were due to Limp Wristing. Traded the G19 in on a Taurus .357 revolver. She completed the course with flying colors and got her CCW permit. One year later traded the Taurus in for a S&W
Sigma 9VE. She has owned the SW9VE for three years, shoots it every week, and has never had one failure of any kind.

April 8, 2006, 10:36 AM
I have seen reports, on another website, of problems with the G22.
If that's her gun, it might not be limp wristing causing the jams.

April 8, 2006, 10:44 AM
Yeah - the Indiana troops are having problems with the 22's.

Sounds like a bad part - It should be interesting to see what comes out of it.

April 8, 2006, 10:46 AM
Agree on the limpwrist issue. Provided that gun fits her, this can be resolved with training. I've been on the line next to children running Glock pistols in two day, high-volume classes without any malfunction issues (its a matter of technique; not strength). If the gun doesn't fit, she needs to get it cut down or find a new gun.

This article is a good place to start. LFI staff instructor, six time national champion, and all-around swell dude Bob Houzenga gives tips on proper grip for an automatic pistol:


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