gun deaths and ownership in montana


April 8, 2006, 01:07 AM
I'm from australia and im doing a presentation on gun laws in my state compare to gun laws in an american state (i chose montana).

Does anyone have data on annual gun deaths in montana and estimated gun ownership in montana.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!


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April 8, 2006, 01:11 AM
Free tip from college student to another student.

An online forum is probably not an acceptable source.

April 8, 2006, 01:14 AM
good tip lol. Im not a college student, im in high school so data doesnt have to be spot on.

April 8, 2006, 01:16 AM
You should be able to find everything you need at the following sites: (pro gun) (anti gun)



American By Blood
April 8, 2006, 01:19 AM
As you continue your research, be careful to examine the language used in any statistics very carefully. Only count the deaths that you can be sure result from actual shootings. An unfortunate number of groups that compile numbers count any death where a gun is present as "gun related" or a "gun death."

Someone legally carrying a pistol dies in a car wreck? Gun death.

I choke to death on a cookie in my study? Gun death.

"Statistics are like a bikini. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital."

April 8, 2006, 04:12 AM
Let's hope this isn't VindiC coming back for more.....

April 8, 2006, 04:48 AM
Kittycattykitty: From your username, I hope you're a young lady. I applaud you on your choice of internet forums to study up on crime rate comparisons.

I want to strongly caution you that "Gun deaths" is an unfair comparison, unless you sincerely believe that other deaths are less important. As an example, if you lived in Queensland, and had 3 homicides per 100,000 people, while the folks in Montana had 2 homicides per 100,000 people, it would be a extremely broad conclusion that folks in Montana are safer from homicide than folks in Queensland. If however you change the premise to "gun homicides", and 8 of every 10 murder victims in Montana is killed with a gun, while only 1 of every 10 murder victims in Queensland is killed with a gun, if you don't present the earlier (overall murder rate) figure at the beginning of your report as a huge caveat, it could give your readers/listeners the false impression that being slightly safer from a death by gunshot, but far more likely to suffer a death by being beaten with a large stick or stone is preferable. If your teacher assigned you a topic of "annual gun deaths" rather than annual homicides, or annual homicides/suicides/accidents it's a fair bet that they are deliberately or accidentally leading you down a path of false security by giving the impression that "gun deaths" are worse than other deaths. This is an almost universal statistical deception used by anti-gun people everywhere.

Young people these days want to be rebellious. So be rebellious. If your teacher assigned you "gun deaths", tell your class "Mr. or Ms. x assigned us a project based upon a faulty premise". I dare you:D

Now, that said. Here is an excellent starter for your paper.

It is called A Statistical Comparison Of Homicide Rates In The Prairie Provinces And Four American Border States, 1978 - 1992

It was a scholarly study done by a Canadian MP. As a very quick overview, Canada has roughly similar homicide rates to Australia as a whole, a lower overall violent crime rates. This study shows that the portions of America that are best equivalent to Canada geographically and demographically (Montana included in the study) have lower homicide and violent crime rates.

one graph from the study

April 8, 2006, 08:21 AM
I would start by taking a look at the FBI's Uniform Crime Reports on their website.

Then maybe look at Montana state government websites, maybe see if their state police publishes crime reports and other stats. Those would hold more weight than anything you find on a public forum.

April 8, 2006, 08:34 AM
Do be aware that Montana isn't the only state in the U.S. with very high rates of gun ownership and very free gun laws; my wife's home state of Maine is also such a state, and also happens to have the lowest homicide rate in the United States.

April 8, 2006, 11:47 AM
I don't know what the actual homicide/violence numbers are, but I can tell you that at least in the rural areas it is hard to find anyone who does not own guns.

The other thing that I can tell you is that whenever there is a report of violence in the news, you can almost bet that one or more of the involved persons has a native american surname.:(

April 8, 2006, 03:54 PM
good tip lol. Im not a college student, im in high school so data doesnt have to be spot on.

That isn't the point. I could make up a bunch of "statistics" and post them here. The data wouldn't be "spot on". Heck, it wouldn't have anything to do with reality!

You want to get information from reputable sources. You want to be able to see how they acquired their data. You want to know that they do not have any bias... getting gun statistics from VPC or the Brady Bunch (or, to be fair, the NRA or any other "pro" group) can be very misleading. You want to know the source and be able to see the raw information yourself, as well as how it has been "massaged".

April 8, 2006, 06:28 PM
Murder stats.

Some ownership stats here but not by state. Ends with some anti-gun rhetoric.

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