[kannonfyre]

Dear gun guys,

I recently bought a stock stainless ruger 10/22. After replacing the synthetic stock with a hogue overmoulded stock, putting in a synthetic recoil absorbing bolt stop pin and fitting it with a walther rimfire scope, I took it out to the range several times to break it in. After firing 900 rds of remington yellow jackets, 200 rounds of old winchester LRHV HPs (yellow and red box), 200 rds of CCI green tag and 250 rds of CCI .22lr match pistol ammo, here are my findings:

The yellow jackets gave decent accuracy and had a stoppage or failure to full extract once every 50 rds. The mechanical reliability rate remained constant whether in slow or rapid fire.

The old winchesters had the best accuracy and the same stoppage rate as the yellow jackets.

Green tag and match pistol produced constant 3" groups from a simulated fox hole position at 50 meters but the rate of stoppages was UNACCEPTABLE. When the weapon was clean, the 1st 100 rds produced 1 stoppage every 50 rds (slow fire) but after that it was 1 stoppage every 30 rds for slow fire and about 1 stoppage (stove pipe, double feeding....etc) every 10-15 rounds for rapid fire.

Also, when shooting the green tags, there seemed to be some kind of "chamber explosion". The shot sounded funny and the round went off sending the projectile down range but the cartridge failed to extract. There was a profusion of smoke emitting from the action of the rifle and after racking the bolt a few times, the cartridge ejected but it appeared to be split down the side with the base still intact. I continued shooting about 100 green tags without problems.

Sorry about the longwindedness but here are my questions:

1) How can i improve the reliability of my 10/22 rifle? Does using high velocity ammo result in lesser stoppages for semi-auto guns than using standard velocity rounds?
2) Will a synthetic bolt pin affect reliability?
3) Will a scratched and slightly nicked ejector (part B-8 in the trigger group)
http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/PDF/E1.pdf affect the reliable ejection of spent brass?
4) Do I have to be concerned about the smoky "chamber explosion" with the ruptured ejected cartridge?

[kannonfyre]

Anyone with any opinions or ideas at all?

Any advice would be appreciated and I'm VERY keen on improving my 10/22s disappointing reliability.

[1911JMB]

Keep it soaked in CLP. Thats what you gotta do with mine for maximum reliability.

[armoredman]

Return it. Every 10/22 I have ever used, including the latest one, has had perfect reliability with all ammo, including the cheap bulk generic stuff. Something is wrong with this one.

[swampdog]

Wow, that's more problems in 900 rounds than I've had in 30 years with mine.
You didn't mention if it was used or new.
You can easily eliminate some suspects by putting everything back to stock then adding your mods one by one until you run into problems. I don't think any of your mods are the culprits, though. I'd look at the chamber real close. Any burs? That ejector might be a good suspect. If the rifle is new, put it back to stock and send it to ruger. If you bought it used I'd replace the ejector first. If that doesn't fix things, get a new barrel. 3" inch groups at 50 yards sucks, btw.
I shoot remington yellow jackets for plinking and cci stingers for hunting. Most of the mis-feeds I've experienced have been from damaged or dirty magazines, something else to check.
Of course, you could just take it to your local gunsmith, if it's used. Might save you some frustration.
You can also ask over at
http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums
These guys are all about 10/22's.

[ID_shooting]

I own a SS 10/22 as well, I find it very reliable. My wifes standard 10/22 shoots almost just as good.

10/22s are just like any type of machinery that uses consumables, the quality of the consumables (ammo) directly affects the quality function of the machine.

10/22s are not match rifles and use blowback to function. This means that match ammo will not function well in them and standard velocity ammo may not provide enough force to cycle the gun well.

On top of this, realize that cheap ammo usually gives cheap performance.

For plinking where I don't mind the occasional stoppage (1/100) we shoot American Eagle high-velocity. If I am whistle pig shooting, I use CCI Stingers or Velociters, even Mini-Mags if the other two aren't available. With the CCIs, I get 100% functioning in both 10/22s.

My advice is the give it a good cleaning, (don't forget the mags) use a decent oil on the moving parts and use good high-velocity ammo and you should see dramatic improvement.

[1911JMB]

Let me again point out that mine is utterly reliable when you keep it showered in CLP. I think Ruger manufacturing set up may have changed some over the years, because especially when my now 3 year old 10/22 was new, it jammed up just as much as yours. So did my friends. I think the newer ones just need a break in period and perhaps more oil. Before you return it, soak it in CLP, and put 1,000 rounds through it. I feel certain it will work fine after that.

About ammo. Mine will eat up anything, but .22 semi autos are often choosey eaters. I have seen CCI Blazers jam up in semi auto .22s a number of times. Proper ammo choice for maximum reliability may greatly differ from one 10/22 to the next.

[30-06 lover]

I have had only one FTE with my 10/22. I would get a new extractor form VQ. The bolt buffer is a great thing to have in a 10/22. Keep it, it will not mess with the gun's reliability. As for weird sounding shots, get rid of the ammo and stay away form it. Give some Mini-Mags a try...they are my 10/22's favorite food.

[kannonfyre]

1911JMB: My cleaning ritual for my 10/22 is to...

1)Brush the magazine feed lips down with a CLP soaked brush to clean off grease and carbon stains.
2)Remove the bolt and charging handle and give the upper receiver interior a good dose of birchwood-casey bore scrubber.
3)Clean the barrel out with bore scrubber and patches.
4)pour about 1 1/2 table spoons of CLP down the barrel
5)lube the interior of the receiver with about 14 drops of CLP and spread evenly with a brush.
6)lube the bolt and charging handle with 14 drops of clp spread with a brush.
7)rinse the trigger group with bore cleaner and then pour about 2 tablespoons of clp in to lube the mechanism.
8)assemble rifle and brush clp on the exterior to prevent rust.

Is my cleaning process sufficient? How much more clp should I be using?

30-06 lover: The ultra smokey round detonation, failure to extract and subsequent split brass case came from 5 year old CCI green tag. I thought that CCI .22lr was prime stuff! Have you ever had any negative experiences with CCI standard velocity rounds?

ID_shooting: I shall order a brick of mini-mags asap. However, do you have any experiences with this ammo?

http://www.winchester.com/products/catalog/rimfiredetail.aspx?symbol=X22LR&cart=MjIgTG9uZyBSaWZsZQ==

it seems to have a higher "punch" vs mini mags and hence ability to blow the bolt back for a positive extraction.

[loose cannon]

a power custom titanium sharp claw extractor in all of my ruger design 22 autos(rifles and pistols)it even made a fte prone amt lightning reliable.

after that jewel came out the only time i have ftes is when the guns had 500+rds without cleaning.

midway usa has them for $9.79 with spring takes all of 3minutes to instal if you are quick at field stripping 10/22s.

[Don't Tread On Me]

Wow, that's more problems in 900 rounds than I've had in 30 years with mine.


That's an interesting statement. Here's my story.

About 4 years ago I bought a SS 10/22. It was very rough. When pulling the bolt back, it sounded like there was a handfull of sand in there, or like the sound of a sandy cast surface scraping around. It was horrible. Virtually all 10/22's I had handled around that time were exactly the same.

I would have malfunctions every single magazine. I tried everything. Different mags, different ammo.

Well, my brother in laws' 10/22 had a very smooth action. Felt like butter to charge it. I just assumed it was "broken in". His was made in 82/83.

I read some advice, and the advice was "shoot 2 bricks of high velocity ammo"...that should smooth it out. I did. And it didn't work. This rifle was ROUGH.

I got annoyed, so I thought I'd try my own fluff and buff. I used a dremel, a diamond stone, a few precision files, and a variety of automotive sandpapers from 600grit up and finer. The first thing I did was to smooth out the charging handle/recoil spring assembly. This was a major source of grinding. The guide rod had circular tooling marks that were quite pronounced. Sandpaper and 2 minutes on my lathe made this mirror finish.

Next, I felt the inside of the receiver. It didn't seem too bad until I lightly polished it. Then it became real evident. You could see the topography (yes, that's the best word to describe it) of the rough casting inside. So, I went to work on that. The charging handle itself had sharp edges, this was scraping the top of the receiver. I rounded all edges. Finally, I did some work to the bolt. The bolt was in pretty good shape, but my diamond stone is a true surface, so I'd figure I'd expose any high spots anywhere on the bolt. There were a few, but nothing major. While I was at it, I lowered the headspace from .0438" (factory) to .0425" (min)...that helped accuracy a LOT.

Then there is the hammer. I polished the hammer face so that the bolt's rear would encounter minimal resistance. I did not radius the rear of the bolt like some people do.

Anyhow, when all was said and done, and everything is polished smooth..I cleaned it, oiled it, and cycled it. It was the smoothest I ever felt.

Took it to the range - zero problems since. From at least 1 malfunction per magazine to zero in years.

Process took me a few hours. Cheaper than sending the rifle back to Ruger who will likely do nothing about it.


As for 30 year old Rugers. After I did all of this, I was inspired to do a trigger job. I inspected the 1980's Ruger and found that many parts seem to be of higher quality in the older rifle. I was looking to find out why the older rifle had a better trigger. The older hammer has a less sharp "hook" for a sear engagement area (reduces the amount of push on the hammer spring during a trigger pull), that significantly reduces weight. The angle of the disconnector is also slightly different, enough so that the newer ones have a LOT more slack....Also, the bolt was machined better.

In past couple of years, whenever in a gun shop, I'd cycle the action just to see. They've gotten a little better than the one I bought. When I bought mine, it was typical of all the ones I handled. Very rough sounding actions. Almost took an effort to work the handle back.

Quality has most certainly gone down since the "old days"..


Just some thoughts...

[ID_shooting]

"ID_shooting: I shall order a brick of mini-mags asap. However, do you have any experiences with this ammo?"

I got a few boxes of it on the bottom of my 22lr ammo can. I can't say if it was any worse or better than the A.E. plinking ammo I use. Been a while since I shot it, IIRC, it worked fine but didn't give the best accuracy out of my rifle.

[Ol` Joe]

I`d put the factory bolt stop pin back in and see if reliablity improves. I don`t know if a plastic one helps or hurts but I do know it was built to run with the one that came with it. Don`t over lube it. I clean mine, oil, then wipe the excess off. I have had no more ejection failures with mine then I can count on one hand. Too much oil just gathers soot and dirt.
I keep it clean and shoot mostly target ammo now since I`ve had Clark rebuild it and it still is almost perfectly reliable. Maybe a rd or two out of more then a brick of ammo.

[owen]

Are you wiping the CLP out of the bore? On a blowback like the 10/22, the chamber should be dry.

In general, .22 barrels only really require an occasional chamber brushing

Look for a burr on the chamber edge. On many .22s the firing pin puts a dent in the chamber due to dry firing. On a gun like a 10/22, with no empty-mag-bolt-stop, it's likely that the chamber gets whacked on a regular basis. If there is a burr, any decent gunsmith should be able to fix it in 10 minutes or so, including filling out the bill.

[rockstar.esq]

"On top of this, realize that cheap ammo usually gives cheap performance."

Man I get so tired of hearing this mantra. Seriously this is a .22LR, perhaps the nations most popular semi-auto at that. The incomprehensible number of shots fired by all those rifles with the cheapest ammo availible is a testament to how pretentious the above statement is. I am aware that there are quite a few folks who trick out a 10-22 and take them to matches where the proceed to print crazy small groups. HOWEVER those rifles were essentially rebuilt to perform on a higher level. As for the bone stock variety, they were built to work with whatever it is fed. I absolutely can't stand the notion that it is acceptable in many shooters minds that some brands of ammo simply won't work at all in their gun. Please note that I didn't mention accuracy. I know and understand that the most accurate load for a given rifle may also be the most expensive ammo. That said, I have a Tula T-07 bolt action .22LR that will print a 1.00" group at 100yds with American Eagle .22LR however it does worse with Eley Match ammo! To actually answer the original poster, I have heard on many occasions that the extractor fit on moder 10-22's leaves something to be desired. The cure all seems a unanimous replacement with a Volquartsen "exact edge" extractor. As for the split cased .22, I'd rack that up to quality control and I'd probably shy away from using more ammo from that lot. I highly doubt that there was any damage done to your firearm other than making it dirty. I'm curious about the use of CLP to the extent that some are recommending. It would appear to me that everything is damp all the time. When I have semi-auto's that are damp with lube, they trap dirt and grit exponentially faster which in turn makes them less reliable.

[1911JMB]

Kannonfire, you use more CLP than I do. Sounds to me like I stand corrected and your .22 needs to have some work done to it.

"Process took me a few hours. Cheaper than sending the rifle back to Ruger who will likely do nothing about it."

I'm certainly all for do it yourself work, but I had thought that Ruger was pretty good about doing free repair work. Does anybody have any experiences to the contrary?

[silicon wolverine]

Its possible ther is a slight bulge in the side of the chamber from a mis-machined barrel. Ive fired over 100,000 rounds from my 10/22 (stainless, synth) and with the exception of wearing out an ejector ive had exactly 2 FTE's and that was in the first 50 rounds the gun fired. Green tag ammo doesnt work the best in mine but it functions at least. T22 win is OK but not great either. I mostly shoot CCI Blazer with a little rem. golden bullet thrown in. Id send it back and have the factory or a good gunsmith give it a once over.

SW

[R.H. Lee]

My 10/22's run best when I keep 'em dry and clean. Any lube in the action just mixes with the carbon fouling to produce a gummy sticky mess.

[Across The Pond]

Hi - I agree with the 'return it' statements, however you might be interested that I when installed a Volquartson EDM extractor upgrade.. (best £11 I ever spent on the 10/22, including the Volq. Carbon bbl that I also added...) The extractor took care just about all my FTE issues, and I now shoot low velocity Lapua match ammo with maybe 1 FTE in a thousand rounds.

Good luck whichever route you chose to pursue!

Regds, ATP

[owen]

Across,

You got a VQ Carbon barrel for 11 Pounds? Do tell! :evil:

[Across The Pond]

Across,

You got a VQ Carbon barrel for 11 Pounds? Do tell!

Ok, ok... I 'fess the bad grammar of my post! You know what I meant! :neener:

BTW, no factual basis, but I reckon that the match chamber in the VQ actually improved reliable operation, despite suggestions that it might do the opposite.. either way, I have a reliable 10/22. We use them for PPC here (yeah, I know it's a revolver match :rolleyes: ) and IPSC (yeah, I know ..:rolleyes: ) and steel challenge type stuff. Just about every handgun owner that kept shooting post the '97 ban bought a 10/22 as we still allowed semiautos in .22RF!

Regds, ATP

[kannonfyre]

...however, as I am unsure as to the availability of upgraded extractors at my local retailer, I shall do the following when time is available:

1)Throughly clean and oil the magazines
2)Replace the ejector
3)Get hold of 500 minimags to break the gun in.

Will be shooting sometime this week. Will let you guys know how it goes. Thanks. :)

[Dave Markowitz]

1)Brush the magazine feed lips down with a CLP soaked brush to clean off grease and carbon stains.
2)Remove the bolt and charging handle and give the upper receiver interior a good dose of birchwood-casey bore scrubber.
3)Clean the barrel out with bore scrubber and patches.
4)pour about 1 1/2 table spoons of CLP down the barrel
5)lube the interior of the receiver with about 14 drops of CLP and spread evenly with a brush.
6)lube the bolt and charging handle with 14 drops of clp spread with a brush.
7)rinse the trigger group with bore cleaner and then pour about 2 tablespoons of clp in to lube the mechanism.
8)assemble rifle and brush clp on the exterior to prevent rust.

Is my cleaning process sufficient? How much more clp should I be using?

Personally, I think you're overcleaning the rifle and using too much CLP. Based on my experience with a couple of 10/22s, you should not need to clean them much at all if you are using ammo that it likes. Cleaning the gun until it's spotless causes excessive wear.

Keep the interior of the receiver and trigger group clean and lightly oiled. Two tablespoons of CLP? I'm surprised you aren't getting more malfs. Powder fouling + oil = Goop that hurts reliability. Apply one or two drops of oil to the wear points, don't soak the whole thing in it.

You are cleaning the bore way too much. At most, run one or two passes with a BoreSnake. I rarely clean the bore on any of my .22s; overcleaning leads to acclerated wear and tear. The main thing is to keep the chamber clean and dry. Use a Q-Tip with a couple drops of CLP on it to clean the chamber, then dry it with another Q-Tip.

Note that guys who shoot in target matches with .22s generally don't clean the bore. If they do, then they need to fire a few fouling shots to get the bore back to the point where their sight zero is correct, and where the rifle is grouping properly.

Clean the magazines but do not oil them. Again, oil on the mags will hurt reliability by attracting and retaining fouling, turning it into a goopy mass. I've successfully cleaned 10/22 mags by soaking in HOT soapy water, rinsing with HOT ware, then letting them dry. They run great after that.

If there are any burrs on parts, such as the extractor, either have Ruger fix it or lightly stone then to smooth off the burrs.

CCI Mini Mags are good ammo and a good choice for break-in.

[52D]

I know it's costly, but you really do get out what you put in with high quality after market parts. I've gradually upgraded my 10/22 with a Clark Custom Trigger group from Brownells as well as a Clark match extractor. I liked that so I added Clark's fluted blue barrel in 21". I later added a Power Custom titanium firing pin and extended bolt handle assembly. Next, I had a great gunsmith bed the barrel in an older original Ruger sporter stock but let the action free float. Result= 10 shots, one hole from a bench at 50 yds. 1' groups on a windless day at 100 yds. 3-4 inch groups at 100 yds offhand. I use a synthetic buffer and clean in after every 200 rounds through a hole drilled into the back of the receiver. I shoot Federal Match Target, (all three grades) with excellent results, but recently tried Eley Red Semi-Auto rounds and was very impressed with the increased accuracy. It wears a Burris 6X AO Mini and has won numerous club events. It's a great plinker out of the box, no doubt, but a hell of a match gun can be built on that action. I'm putting a 17hm2 version together now and can't wait to see the results with the faster round. Has anybody had experience with an upgraded .17hm2 out there yet ?
52D

[Don't Tread On Me]

Guys, you are all advising that he upgrade to aftermarket parts to get a reliable 10/22.

There is no reason why a completely stock 10/22 shouldn't be extremely reliable. You shouldn't have to upgrade parts of the rifle to make it reliable (heh, it's not like 1911s you know! :evil: )

The problem is in the rifle, not in his cleaning methods (I'd hope not). I've seen some unbelievably filthy 10/22's run and run. People shoot many bricks without cleaning them and they are internally caked with crud.


If it isn't a faulty magazine, then the action simply is not as smooth as it needs to be. If that isn't the fault, then the chamber is some how flawed.

[Picher]

I've done quite a bit of work on 10-22s and written up accurizing/improvement articles posted on Rimfirecentral.com Tips and Tricks Forum.

The major causes of FTFs in that rifle can be attributed to two major things: 1. Use of oils to lubricate the action. Oil collects grit from the blowback action and can quickly cause problems. Use dry moly or similar dry lube for any action parts. Do NOT lube magazine lips.

2. The extractor is another frequent cause of jams. A properly fitted extractor will not only pull the case out of the chamber, but more importantly, hold it in position against the bolt head until it hits the ejector. With the rifle disassembled, try putting an empty case under the extractor hook and see if it holds the shell pretty tightly. If it's loose, or falls out, chances of jamming are very high. The clearance can be reduced by placing it in a vise and heating the rear end of the extractor and tapping the lug gently toward the hook. It's a trial and error thing. If you make it too tight, a bit can be filed off the rear lug.

Contrary to popular belief, the primary ejector is really part of a magazine, not the "Ejector" on the trigger group. The "Ejector" is only there to eject a cartridge when the magazine is not in the rifle.

The rifle should be able to group inside 1 1/4" at 50 yards with a good scope, from a good front and rear rest, without doing any mods. Try Winchester Dynapoints or Super-Speed ammo, which burn clean and function well in my rifles.

Picher

[JackOfAllTradesMasterAtNone]

I'll have to agree that recent 10/22's are a bit rough in the action. Shooting the old ammunition is the variable that can be eliminated. If there's a bur on the extractor, then yes change it out. I vote for the VQ. Order direct from Volquartsen. https://www.volquartsen.com/vc//pages/public/ListItems.jsp?id=33

But first... Break that rifle in. Shoot another brick or two through it.

Then thoroughly clean it. Use a bit less lubricant though. (about half as much)

There's a thread here somewhere that explains how to dissassemble the magazine and put it back together after it's clean.

Keep the buffer.

If this rifle doesn't function well with the above, then pull the scope mount and shoot again.

Personally I've polished everything inside my 10/22 action, and it does function incredibly well, but that's just me. I didn't do it to get rid of a fault. I did it since that's what I do to all my arms. They function absolutely flawless. I've also installed a VQ match hammer and done my own polish on the hammer and sear. Trapper makes a really good spring kit for the trigger set.

-Steve

[kannonfyre]

Taking some advice from the great gunnies over at THR, I did the following to my rifle:

i) Installed a power custom trigger upgrade.
ii) Brushed out the bolt and upper receiver to remove excess CLP.
iii) Shot 200 mini mag 40gr LRNs with 50 cci match pistol rounds for comparison.

Here are the results:

Trigger pull is now 40% lighter. When the gun was clean I fired the 50 match pistol rounds. On average the group size was 2 1/2" at 50 meters and I had a FTE at the 30th round.

When it came to the minmags however, the recoil was noticeably stouter and it's bark was louder HOWEVER....170 rounds fired slowly and 30 rounds fired rapidly showed NO FTEs, FTFs or STOPPAGES of ANY KIND!!!!! :D :) :D Additionally, group size while shooting seated from a table without a rest decreased to 2".

One last issue though, I noticed that after shooting the 50 match pistol and 100 minimags, the zero of my rifle changed about 2" to the left. I didn't knock my scope or drop my rifle so what do you guys think happenned? While my barrel was hot to the touch, do you think that was an issue for accuracy? Do stock sporter stainless barrels have accuracy issues when hot after 150 rds in quick succession?

[Ol` Joe]

Any rifle can have a change in the accuracy or point of impact when hot. I`d suspect the impact change though was caused by the velocity difference between ammo types.
I`m glad to see you`re getting the rifle to straighten up and act right.

[GunLocators]

A urethane buffer will NOT effect the function of your firearm. We use them in all our match rifles and never have a issue.

[Crosshair]

Remington Brick ammo is 100% in my 10/22, but I can't find any other brick ammo that works reliably. (I would like to use 40 grain bullets.) Even the Federal 40 grain bullets that come in a box of 50 love to jam up my 10/22. I'll try the extractor thing and see how tight it is. Any other ideas?