[telomerase]

Need a good pellet pistol for introducing newbies. (Some of these people think a .22 is a cannon). Requirements:

fit small hands, not too heavy
less than $150

I've never liked BBs (too easy to ricochet, too inaccurate). Am I wrong? Should I just go with a CO2 BB semi and some balloons?

Thanks for any thoughts. -hTERT

[Ohen Cepel]

I love my IZH-46, it's more of a Olympic style pistol and might not fit small hands well. However the grip could be reduced. It's pellet only, which I think is better since BB's aren't very accurate and might discurage new shooters.

The 46 is more money, but it's as accurate as most people I know.

I also have a C02 Colt, looks just like a 1911. Fun to shoot (also pellets only). However, not very accurate.

I had a Webley Nemisis, very accurate, but also a pellet only gun and a bit of a large grip. Great for indoor close range practice.

I'm sure there are other options out there, but I don't have experience with them.

[RecoilRob]

You might look at the Daisy Avanti 747. Nice accuracy and decent trigger for $130 or so. The RH dedicated target grip IS big but I got the LH version from Daisy for a bit over $8 and installed the left panel only so now my pistol is ambidextrous. The pic shows the RH target grip with the big thumb shelf.

Starting shooters out with one of these would be a great idea. So quiet you don't need ear protection and virtually no recoil. And, if you miss....YOU missed. This pistol will shoot asprin size groups at 10meters with Gamo Target pellets.

[Bridger]

Another affordable option is the Crossman 3357, which is about $40-$50. I'm no air pistol competitor, but I shoot mine to about 20 yards to the limit of my pistol skill, which is admittedly not very great. I mostly use it for plinking, and introducing new shooters. About the best I can do with a real pistol at 25 yards is 5-6", and this air pistol seems to be about the same in my hands. The CO2 cartridges get about 60 shots before they begin to drop significantly.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v244/BridgerNY/10-31-04%20mauser%20at%20the%20range%20and%20more/pelletpistol.jpg

the DA pull is very heavy on mine, but so far it's had thousands of pellets through it with the only maintenance being the tightening of some screws, and a drop of paintball gun oil on the top of a 12 gram every couple hundred rounds.

[akodo]

i really got to say i disagree with using a pellet gun to introduce firearms. For one, except for crazy local ordinances, I don't consider a pelletgun a firearm. Now, that doesn't mean I think it is a toy, far from it. However, there are many people who do, or who at least will take it a bit less seriously than a firearm, and in my opinion teaching newbies guns means teaching newbies GUN SAFTEY and I don't want to start with the handicap of the pelletgun being just a pelletgun.


Now, pelletguns are great tools for practicing your marksmanship skills. They can even be handy repelling nusance squirrels or dropping pigeons close range with headshots in the city limits because said pigeons are popping like crazy on you car in your garage.

But for starting a shooter, NO. I don't want him to start out with a pellet gun them move to a .22LR then to a .38 special. Firearms and the amount of damage they can do if misused is an entirely different class than pelletguns. A pelletgun can and will cause blindness if you catch one in the eye. On the rarest of occasions if hit in just the right spot they may kill someone. But then you can trip and fall on scissors if you are careless. A simple .22LR single shot rifle in an accident can cause serious physical harm or property damage up to a mile away.

If people consider a .22LR a cannon, there is something wrong. It may be you are using a NAA minirevolver, it may be you need to provide hearing protection, it may be they aren't holding the gun right and got bit by the slide, but being a newbie chalk it up to 'kick' or it may be a mental thing that 'all guns will kick and that will hurt'

Either way, deal with the real problem

[ribbonstone]

Agree wih that last...last thing you want is to get the thoughts of "gun" and "non-dangerous" mixed in a newbie's mind.

Revolver, 22, start with CB caps if you have to.

Pellet guns are a great way to practice when a real range visit is impossible...are a nice hobby by themselves...but better to start good solid habits early.

[Rampant_Colt]

i have one of these (http://www.compasseco.com/shop/prod_show.php?art_no=C1377C) in .22 cal known as the 'Back Packer' - the one shown is the .177 version.

Forget Co2 - kids will shoot em up in no time flat! . . a 10 pump single shot makes every shot count - and it doesn't necessarily have to be pumped 10X for every shot...

i think it meets all your requirements, is REALLY accurate and under $60 - i highly recommend this one

[telomerase]

If people consider a .22LR a cannon, there is something wrong. It may be you are using a NAA minirevolver, it may be you need to provide hearing protection, it may be they aren't holding the gun right and got bit by the slide, but being a newbie chalk it up to 'kick' or it may be a mental thing that 'all guns will kick and that will hurt'

I agree with you completely. I would prefer to start everyone on a .22 rifle, not a handgun at all. And I certainly won't hand anyone new something that has a "slide" (at least not with more than one round), thank you very much :rolleyes:

Of course hearing and eye protection are essential.

Either way, deal with the real problem

Exactly. But the real problem is that many, perhaps the majority, of young suburban Americans (not to mention the godsforsaken furriners) are terrified of firearms. You don't have to worry about them thinking a pellet gun isn't dangerous (which it is, kinda, if you're unlucky enough). I've gotten a lot of people started in the hobby, and it can't be done by scaring them out of it. (I have seen people "started", and finished, shooting with single-shot 12-gauges.)

Thanks for all the air-powered suggestions.

[telomerase]

Revolver, 22, start with CB caps if you have to.

That may be the ticket.

[colt.45]

if you dont mind a bolt action then a crosman 2240 will suit every need. the barrels are top notch and i have heard from most people that they shoot quarter sised groups or less at 25 yards. my experience with crosman is great.

[Bridger]

There is nothing wrong with starting people on an airgun before a firearm. The FOUR RULES are the FOUR RULES no matter what they are being used with, and that should be taught and memorized and understood long before they even see or touch the firearm.

Only an idiot won't understand that even a pellet gun can be used to shoot out an eye or even death.

In addition to that, the lack of noise, recoil, and the disconnect between a pellet gun and a real gun, really makes them great for training the irrationally afraid of firearms types. Anyone who has not trained an extremely anti-gun person probably won't understand this.

We always say guns don't kill people, people kill people. Well, in this case, the gun also does not really matter, but how we instruct others in the use of air pistols and air rifles, rimfires, and centerfires.

[jerkyman45]

If you want CO2, try a Walther CP-99, my friend has one and its a blast to shoot. I prefer my IZH-46, but thats a totally different ball game.

[Rex B]

I will 2nd the suggestion of the Daisy pistols.
I have a 717, which I use for target practice in the backyard. 717 is the base model of the 747 and can be had for as little as $50 used. The 747 has wood grips, adjustable trigger, precision barrel. The functional difference is slight.
When we have friends and family over, occasionaly someone will want to punch some paper holes, or make a tin can swing from the tree. I'm probably going to get another 717 or 747.

I can legally shoot anything I want on my suburban acre, but i don't want to get the neighbors riled. I shoot pellets from this Daisy and several accurate pellet rifles. I also shoot CB caps from a revolver and a bolt rifle. CB caps won't cycle most semi-automatics.
Interestingly, the CB caps are quieter than my 1000 FPS spring air rifle, and hit much harder. All you get from the gun is a Pffft -wack!

[akodo]

Exactly. But the real problem is that many, perhaps the majority, of young suburban Americans (not to mention the godsforsaken furriners) are terrified of firearms. You don't have to worry about them thinking a pellet gun isn't dangerous (which it is, kinda, if you're unlucky enough). I've gotten a lot of people started in the hobby, and it can't be done by scaring them out of it. (I have seen people "started", and finished, shooting with single-shot 12-gauges.)

yes, a pellet gun is dangerous, but so is a nailgun, a scissors, drain-o, etc etc.

I just don't see how starting them out with a pellet gun will help any. I don't get how a pellet gun will deflate their fear of a firearm. The offset of pellet guns being quite similar to airsoft, paintball, etc which it is quite normal to point at things you don't desire to kill is too strong. Maybe it is just me and my experiences, but it just screams bad idea to me.

Regarding fear of firearms - normally this is fear of what they can do, not fear of kick, as your original post made me first think.

I too have brought some 'timid' people shooting (and timid about guns, not about everyday life)

I start out by telling them the truth, and not in a scary way. I take out a firearm and tell them all modern firearms are designed so even if loaded and thrown off the roof of your house they aren't going to fire. Guns that 'accidentally fire' have 'accidentally' had the trigger pulled. The trigger fires the gun. Keep your finger off of it, make sure nothing like a tree branch snags it, and you are fine, even with a loaded gun. BUT THIS ONE ISN"T LOADED ILL SHOW YOU HOW TO CHECK! THIS IS WHERE THE BULLET WOULD BE (yes, and case, and primer, and powder :P) ALWAYS CHECK OR ASK SOMEONE TO HELP CHECK IT. I then hold the gun, and open the bolt. I then say I have no ammunition for this gun in this room, it's locked away somewhere else.

I then pull the bolt out and stick it in my pocket. 'Now it is dissasembled far enough that even if you pull a bullet (yes sloppy definition but for newbies, I'll worry about that problem later) out of your pocket you won't be able to put it in this gun and have it fire. Would you like to hold this gun?

-THEN you go into 'always check' 'even after check, point in safe direction - what if you didn't check perfectly' 'finger off trigger'

At this point i have always had those timid around firearms convinced that THIS firearm is currently safe to hold and examine AND that I am consious enough of safty that talk about how dangerous an accident can be, and why saftey hence of utmost importance, it is in as non-threatening as if there was no gun, no pellet gun, or no anythign in the room.

[JohnKSa]

I don't get how a pellet gun will deflate their fear of a firearm. Same way dryfiring gets rid of a flinch.

You are training your body to go through the motions but without the recoil and blast to cause the flinch. Eventually your body "forgets" about the flinch and remembers only the sight alignment and trigger control.

Same thing with the pellet gun. It's a way to learn virtually all the things you need to know about a firearm with almost none of the baggage that firearms carry for some.

Your training method is not wrong, but it's not the only way. ;)

I would recommend a single or multi-pump pneumatic. Spring piston air pistols can be frustrating for beginners. "Walmart level" CO2 pistols may not have the accuracy one would hope for in a trainer.

[akodo]

You are training your body to go through the motions but without the recoil and blast to cause the flinch. Eventually your body "forgets" about the flinch and remembers only the sight alignment and trigger control.

Same thing with the pellet gun. It's a way to learn virtually all the things you need to know about a firearm with almost none of the baggage that firearms carry for some.


that's just it, I think it is terribly dangerous to get used to a nongun, to basically fool the brain into 'forgetting' you have a deadly weapon.

[JohnKSa]

I'm not saying that you treat it any differently than you would a firearm--I know of no-one who advocates that. I'm just saying that it treats YOU differently. ;)

Using your argument, one should never dryfire because it might cause them to forget that they are holding a deadly weapon.