Is 20 ga much different from 12 ga?

[TX1911fan]

Ok, I know this is a dumb question, of course it is. But, I want to know how much of a difference. I bought an O/U 12ga, and thought, wow, nice and light, it will be great. And it is, to carry, but it knocked the crap out of my shoulder. I have a nasty bruise, in the exact shape as the recoil pad, it I shot 3 days ago. I could only shoot one round because it was hurting too much. I've shot 3 rounds in a row with my Winchester 1300, with no problems.

So, will a 20 ga be that much less recoil in the same gun? And, will it be a lot harder to hit the targets? I'm not great, but not terrible either (except when it comes to shooting dove, then I suck big time).

[FunGunner]

Yep. Nope.

[theCZ]

It seems to me that if you had the exact gun in 20ga, it would still hurt you after awhile. If you are getting a bruise like that, your gun probably doesn't fit you that well and that the amount of recoil is a side-effect in a sense. I'm curious though, what gun are we talking about? I shoot a heavy competition model SKB 12ga and have never gotten a bruise or soreness from it. However, I shot a friend's Beretta Silver Pigeon 12ga with 28" barrels and I gave it back after a single station, it really was that bad! Weight and fit can really make the difference between a good shooting experience and what you are experiencing.

[Oldnamvet]

Also, how much shot in the shells you are loading? There is a lot of difference between 1 1/4 oz shot and 1 oz shot. There are also a lot of commercial aftermarket recoil reducers that may be of assistance after you are sure the stock fits you properly.
Or you could give it to me for evaluation for a few years. I would be very thorough.:D

[hoghunting]

There are a couple of suggestions to try. 1st, try using Winchester AA light target loads. They have amazing patterns and recoil is mild. 2nd, replace the recoil pad with a better one. Try Kick-eez, HiViz, Pachmayr decelerator; you might even find one that is shaped for your gun.

Pattern your load and see where you are hitting. Does your gun shoot where you are aiming? If it doesn't, then you need to work on fitting the stock to you.

[Dave McCracken]

New shooters get the heck kicked out of them because of bad form and fit. Heavy loads contribute to the pain also.

Read the floater at the top here on Proper Mounting Techniques. Find someone who knows a bit about shotgunning and have them walk you through.

Kick in a 7 lb 12 gauge with 1 1/8 oz is about the same as that in a 6 lb 20 with 7/8 oz loads.

But, 7/8 oz loads in a 12 gauge are creampuffs that still eradicate clays. Find some light loads and use them until you are further up the learning curve.

[redneck2]

Don't know what type of pad yours has, but I'd double read the thing about pads in the post above.

I have a Marlin .45-70 lever. When I first got it I put on a Decelerator. Guys post all the time about how brutal they are. Mine is a pussycat. I could easily shoot 50 in a row.

[ArmedBear]

What gun and what pad do you have, TX?

[riverdog]

Echoing what's been said, fit rules and Win AA's are very nice. I started shooting Trap with a used but stock field grade 870. I wore a recoil pad on my shoulder and had the standard Remington red butt pad on the gun. The gun didn't fit and I got pummeled, so I checked around and found a replacement stock at Wenig (http://www.wenig.com/). The stocks come rough & unfinished so you get to remove wood until it's just right.

After trimming a bunch of wood so the my hand and cheek felt right I shot it a while with no butt pad. It felt better than the Remington. I then had the stock cut down by someone who knew what he was doing and had a Pachmyer Decelerator added. It's wonderful. I don't wear the shoulder pad anymore and I could shoot Trap all day with that gun. Bottom line -- the gun needs to fit you.

[dfaugh]

Fit makes a big difference.

Loads make a big difference.

All that being said, I prefer a 20, for most purposes...lighter gun when you have to carry it around all day (yes, 1 lb. makes a difference, at the end of the day). And with typical "birdshot" loads I can shoot 100 rounds and just start to feel some discomfort in my shoulder. Every thing I've ever hunted was just as dead when hit with my 20. A 12 IS important if shooting waterfowl, or turkey for example, but for upland game, or even trap, a 20 does me just fine.

[TX1911fan]

Thanks for all the responses. The gun is a Yildiz O/U from Academy. It has the stock pad, which is very small and hard. I doubt one is made for it, but I'll buy one of those trim to fits. I was using Remington ShurShot Heavy Dove, 1 1/8 oz, 7 1/2 shot. For teh 20 gauge, I went and bought 1 oz 8 shot. I'll read up on fit and form. The gun did feel awkward on my shoulder.

[TaxPhd]

So, will a 20 ga be that much less recoil in the same gun?

and

For teh 20 gauge, I went and bought 1 oz 8 shot.

I'm sure that I am missing something, but please tell me you have a 20 ga. gun, and that you are not going to try to use 20 ga. shells in your 12 ga. :uhoh:




Scott

[ArmedBear]

You certainly can use 20 gauge shells in a break-open 12 (I think you can even shoot .410), BUT you need chamber inserts. They're sold by various retailers of obscure shotgun toys.

TX, a Limbsaver, Pachmayer Decellerator, or other good recoil pad will make a huge difference. Several vendors, including those two, make "grind-to-fit" pads, but if you go somewhere that actually has them all in stock, you might find one that fits out of the box, or is so close it takes only a slight tweak to make it perfect. A Medium grind-to-fit Limbsaver fits my trap gun almost perfectly; I just had to use a Dremel to oval-out the screw holes so I could line it up. I could hand-sand it perfect, but it's within 1/16" all around as-is. It's entirely possible that one made for some random Remarchester long gun is close enough to use for your gun, or to modify slightly with minimal time and effort.

Look at the Dram Equivalent number on the box of shells, and the shot weight. A 1 oz. 2.75 DE shell will feel pretty much the same in any gun of the same weight, as long as the gun fits you the same. 20 Gauge only kicks less if you use a lighter load, just like a 150 grain .270 doesn't kick any less than a 150 grain .30-06. The advantage of a 20 is that you can get the same velocity with less powder, and that it's more ideally suited to 7/8 oz. loads. This adds up to less recoil.

Typical 20 gauge load might be 7/8 oz. #8 shot, 2.5 DE. Typical 12 might be 1 1/8 oz. #8 shot, 3 DE. The 12 has more shot, more powder, and similar velocity. But this is a TYPICAL load. There are 3" 20 gauge magnum shells now, and there are also very light 12 gauge loads (7/8 oz. and as little powder as possible) popular among high-volume clay shooters.

Dram Equivalent is an old number that compares smokeless powder with black powder loads, but it's still a good quick indicator of how strong the charge is. Note that different powder can have different recoil for a given velocity, because burn rates vary. This can also affect how the gun shoots at moving targets.

[TX1911fan]

I bought the 20 gauge in the same gun, but haven't had time to shoot it yet. So no, I haven't bought 20 ga shells for the 12 ga.

I measured the stock against my Wincherster 1300, and from the back of the trigger, the O/U is an inch longer (is that where I should measure from?) Does the longer stock have something to do with it too?

[ArmedBear]

Trigger measurement doesn't matter. Triggers can be shifted forward or back, and all that changes is how far you stretch your finger. Some people think that you can get a meaningful measurement by putting the gun in the crook of your arm. You can't. If someone wants to measure your gun that way (especially if he wants to cut your stock), RUN don't walk away.

Compare the buttstocks next to each other. See where you put your hand, not your finger. How do they compare, in all dimensions?

I've never tried a Yildiz. For many American field guns, stock angles are similar. But I don't know what Yildiz does.

[22-rimfire]

Make sure the gun is nestled up on your shoulder and not down on your arm. Try shooting lower powered loads for the time being. For the most part, the buckshot and slug loads have some of the highest recoil. I consider the reoil pretty stout in a 12 ga with a slog, but tolerable. I would assume that the duck and goose loads are similar, but never shot any.

You should be fine with the 20 ga. Do some experimenting. The main difference between the 12 and 20 ga are the amount of shot that is in the shell. Less powder too in 20ga. The 12 ga is a little more forgiving on accuracy. After shooting the 20, look into getting a different recoil pad.

[TX1911fan]

Anyone know someone in the Austin area who can help me fit this gun? I'd sure appreciate it.