What is a "Cop Killer" Handgun?!?!


PDA






Erebus
April 8, 2006, 11:08 PM
They want them banned in my home state of Massachusetts but I can't find anything that explains what a "Cop Killer" handgun is.

http://www.bradynetwork.org/site/MessageViewer?em_id=15781.0&printer_friendly=1

If you enjoyed reading about "What is a "Cop Killer" Handgun?!?!" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
cavman
April 8, 2006, 11:12 PM
It is the FiveSeveN that is advertised as only available to cops and military.

http://www.kitsune.addr.com/Firearms/Auto-Pistols/FN_FiveSeven.htm

crazed_ss
April 8, 2006, 11:14 PM
They are probably referring to the FN Five-Seven.

The Brady people are pretty clueless though. IIRC, armor piercing handgun ammo is restricted to LEO only. So it really is a moot point. The Five-Seven is even legal in CA. I guess there is some special non armor-piercing ammo avaiable for it.

Maxwell
April 8, 2006, 11:15 PM
It started as their definition for the new five and seven handgun from fn(?), to imply that because its bullets go through bodyarmor it is specificly meant to kill cops. Then it meant .50 sized handguns too, because those in theory could also penetrate bodyarmor.

As time passes, Im sure it will come to include every handgun on the market.

If thats successful, it will start to include every rifle despite the fact they've been penetrating armor since 1776 and their not handguns.
.50 cal muzzel loaders can shoot down jumo jets, you see.

Manedwolf
April 8, 2006, 11:17 PM
Yes, it's the fiveseven. Idiotic MA lawmakers want to end crime by banning an $800 handgun that criminals would be highly unlikely to have. Besides, anything C&R in 7.62x25 can also defeat Level II armor, and so can ANY HUNTING RIFLE!

They also want to ban the .50-cal rifles. I've yet to see anyone hold up a store with a Barrett .50 BMG...

Criminals, though, illegal possession of a firearm gets them only a slap on the wrist, through the local paperwork and back on the street in days. :banghead:

1911JMB
April 8, 2006, 11:19 PM
If you illegaly lathe out pointy steel slugs for any handgun you will have bullets that can go through body armor. Any battle rifle caliber will also go right through body armor. If you shoot for the head, body armor is meaningless. Its really a silly point.

cavman
April 8, 2006, 11:23 PM
Here's something I found on Barrett rifles, the guy who is a maker of .50 calibers and is currently putting his money where his mouth is regarding his decision not to sell/service California cops/gov due to CA's decision to ban .50's.

Anyways here is a 6 page story rebuttal to those that think that .50's need to be banned for all the "hot button" reasons.

http://www.barrettrifles.com/news/Michael%20Marks%20Rebuttal%20Piece.pdf

cavman

Standing Wolf
April 8, 2006, 11:24 PM
...I can't find anything that explains what a "Cop Killer" handgun is.

That's because the definition is at once self-evident and completely useless. Self-evidently, a "cop-killer gun" is one that's used by criminals to kill cops. That's completely useless information because any gun can be used to kill any cop or any other person in the world.

The leftist extremists are trying to demonize a particular firearm in the hope of having it banned. Once they've succeeded in banning one gun, they've just made it much, much easier to ban all guns.

Mere logic and facts mean nothing to them. Their only goal is to disarm every last law-abiding American citizen.

Erebus
April 8, 2006, 11:28 PM
Intresting that the bradynetwork has no means to just ask a question about the content of their site.

I would like to ask questions about the rationalization of some of their standings on certain issues. The one that always gets me is that gun and ammo manufacturors should be able to be sued by someone that gets shot. Makes absolutely no sence to me and I haven't seen any explanation beyond "they made the gun and bullets used". That holds no weight to me as no one would even think to sue Ford, Budweiser and Exxon when someone gets run down in a crosswalk by a drunk.

Waitone
April 8, 2006, 11:34 PM
Latest manufactured buzz word. Past word include:
--Saturday Night Special
--Assault Weapon
--Gunshow Loophole
--Sniper Rifle
--and now, Cop Killer
--honorable mention goes to "Bullet Hose"

The game is the same. Brady et al create am emotion laden term, place it in the media via useful idiot fellow travellers, get widespread play, and over time morph the definition to whatever goal they have in mind.

1911JMB
April 8, 2006, 11:40 PM
Erebus,

Brady Campaign Phone: (202) 898-0792
Brady Campaign Fax: (202) 371-9615

Brady Center Phone: (202) 289-7319
Brady Center Fax: (202) 408-1851

It looks like they don't have an email address, but a polite call couldn't hurt.

Erebus
April 9, 2006, 12:12 AM
1911JMB,

No it can't.

cslinger
April 9, 2006, 12:14 AM
Any handgun used to kill a cop.
Assault weapons, any weapon used to assault somebody else.

It is all semantics used to demonize the tool instead of the tool behind the tool.

I do believe they are talking about the five seveN though. God forbid they find out about the CZ52.

tellner
April 9, 2006, 12:19 AM
They also want to ban the .50-cal rifles. I've yet to see anyone hold up a store with a Barrett .50 BMG...

You probably could if you jacked it a few feet off its foundations first :p

ABTOMAT
April 9, 2006, 12:20 AM
Last I heard here in MA they're trying to ban the FiveseveN, the .50 S&W, and .50 BMG rifles. One of these days I'm going to escape to a free state. Just wish the local leaders weren't bonkers--it's a pretty place.

Manedwolf
April 9, 2006, 12:25 AM
Last I heard here in MA they're trying to ban the FiveseveN, the .50 S&W, and .50 BMG rifles. One of these days I'm going to escape to a free state. Just wish the local leaders weren't bonkers--it's a pretty place.

Just over the line north is freedom!

seeker_two
April 9, 2006, 01:05 AM
What is a "Cop Killer" Handgun?!?!

Ask any rappper... :rolleyes:

cbsbyte
April 9, 2006, 03:01 AM
I don't know why they are talking about banning the FN Fiveseven pistol in Mass when it is already banned from sale in this state. Since the gun design has not been tested and put on the list of handguns that have passed the state mandated safety tests. Until then it can not be sold in the state. And even if FN(they are one of the several handgun manufactures that refuse to do business in Mass do to the assine regulations about having all handguns having to be approved for sale), did send some samples to be tested, and the gun design passed, I doubt the Attorney General, who btw is running for Governor, would allow them to be sold in the state, Just like when he saved us from Glocks by blocking their sale. He made all gun dealers return the unsold pistol to the distrubutors and anyone that bought one had to return it to the dealer for a full refund or face jail time. I doubt they ever will be allowed to be sold in this state.

the Juggernaut
April 9, 2006, 03:09 AM
I can't stand the Brady's. The only thing I like about their website is it tells you which state has good gun laws (C's, D's, F's) and which states gun laws suck (B's and A's).

hurrakane212
April 9, 2006, 03:32 AM
a phrase commonly found in liberal nazi-speak that roughly translates into "we will deprive you of anything more deadly than a rubber band and leave you at the mercy of those who would do you harm. Because we think that a criminal's life is more valuable than yours."

Human life is worth protecting, and YES my life and the life of my loved ones is infinitley more valuable to me than the life of the crackhead that broke into my house.

The deepest violation of a human right is to deprive a person of his means of self-protection. Our constitution was founded on natural law and inherent in natural law is the right to self-preservation. Even Hobbes (as off kilter as he was) knew that it was an essential human right to "avoid a violent death."
~Nathan

Maxwell
April 9, 2006, 12:05 PM
Its not the bradys fault. Its your reps that listen to them and the blisninnys that vote to keep these people in office.

The worlds full of liars and they will say anything to score a win.
Brady's shooting had little to do with evil/black assault weapons, armor piercing bullets, .50bmg, background checks, gun show trades or keeping minors from guns.
Yet your reps listen to them just like they listen to hippies about global politics and peta about medical testing.
Maybe its just an exceuse for the elected to push their personal agenda, either way I'd blame the politician above the rest for pushing these movements into laws.

Autolycus
April 9, 2006, 07:55 PM
Its something that exists only in the minds of a liberal anti-gun moron.

LAR-15
April 9, 2006, 08:06 PM
This is old news.

These guns were declared sporting by the BATFE (under the handgun import checklist in force since 1969) and this kinda shut the whole furor down.

If the BATFE lets the gun into the US, you KNOW it's sporting!

antsi
April 9, 2006, 11:30 PM
Brady Center Definitions:
"Cop Killer Handgun" = any handgun we want to ban
"Assault weapon" = any firearm we want to ban

Carl N. Brown
April 24, 2006, 07:41 PM
DoJ BATFE FTB
Department of Justice
Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms and Explosives
Fireams Technology Branch

FN 5.7 (Fabrique Nationale) pistol is a semiautomatic pistol in 5.7 X 28 mm
caliber

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=38912&stc=1&d=1145918145


1/20/05

In response to numerous questions that ATF has received regarding
the capabilities of the 5.7 X 28mm cartridge, the following technical
information is provided.

FTB classified SS196 ammunition as not armor piercing.

Type: Double Action Only or Single Action (in Tactical model).
Chambering: 5.7x28mm.
Length: 208 mm
Barrel length: 122.5 mm
Magazine: 20 rounds.

The FN 5.7 (Fabrique Nationale) pistol is a semiautomatic pistol
in 5.7 X 28 mm caliber approved for importation as a sporting firearm.

The classification of all ammunition is governed strictly by the
definitions presented in the GCA. Specifically, as defined in
18 U.S.C. Section 921(a)(17)(B), the term "armor piercing
ammunition" means-

a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun
and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of
traces of other substances) from one or a combination of
tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper,
or depleted uranium; or
a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and
intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight
of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.

FTB has also examined a 5.7 X 28 mm projectile that FN Herstal
has designated the "SS196." The SS196 is loaded with a Hornady
40 grain, jacketed lead bullet. FTB classified SS196 ammunition
as not armor piercing ammunition under Federal firearms statutes.

According to FNH USA, FN Herstal tested the SS192 ammunition.
SS192 ammunition did not penetrate the Level IIIA vests that were
tested. FNH USA states that SS196, Hornady V-Max 40 gr. bullets
fired from a 4-3/4 inch barrel did not penetrate the Level II vests
that were used in testing.

FNH USA has informed FTB that SS192 is no longer imported for
commercial sale to the United States and that commercial sales
of 5.7 X 28mm ammunition are restricted to the SS196 (not
armor piercing).

FN Herstal 5.7 X 28mm Ammunition

SS190 - Armor piercing (AP)
SS191 - AP Tracer
SS192 - Hollow Point (not AP)
SB193 - AP Subsonic
SS195 - "Green" - lead free hollow point projectile with copper jacket (not AP)
SS196 - Sporting round (Hornady 40 gr. V-max, hollow point lead), (not AP)
10700004 Blank (not classified as ammunition under Federal law)
10700005 Dummy

mbt2001
April 25, 2006, 09:59 PM
A cop killer gun is a myth

Moto
April 26, 2006, 01:55 PM
Here the garbage they want people to send to their senators. Very misleading

:barf:

"As one of your constituents, I urge you to contact the State Senate Ways and Means Committee and tell them to release SB 2113 to the Floor for a full vote.

SB 2113 is an important bill that will ban .50 caliber sniper rifles and "cop-killer" handguns. These weapons should not be available to the general public and will put our citizens and police officers at risk if this legislation is not passed.

The .50 caliber sniper rifle is an extremely lethal, high-powered weapon of war advertised for its ability to shoot down airplanes and knock out targets up to four miles away. These are not hunting rifles and they have no place in our communities.

The new FiveSeveN concealable handgun is dubbed the "cop-killer" because it fires bullets that can tear right through a police officer's bulletproof vest. SB 2113 will help protect our police officers, not put their lives in jeopardy."

Fergo_the_mule
December 9, 2007, 01:10 AM
I have the FN FiveseveN or rather my dad had one it is a blast to shoot but it is a PAIN to find the ammunition and last time I checked NO ONE hase been killed with the 57 they are just banning it because it can hold 20 rounds of SCARY LOOKING AMMUNITION and your average criminal does not have the money to bet a .50 caliber rifle! agh they are banning it because it looks scary!

WaltonS
December 9, 2007, 01:19 AM
If I remember correctly, "Cop-killer" originated in some Mel Gibson movie. Probably one of the Lethal Weapon flicks. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
Anywho, basically, yeah... any handgun round capable of penetrating body armor is a "cop killer."
I think a .44mag would be a cop-killer, then? (Never really seen a .44 vs. kevlar, couldn't tell you)

Autolycus
December 9, 2007, 01:23 AM
Fergo the mule: You realize that this thread is over almost 1 1/2 years old?

RedLion
December 9, 2007, 01:31 AM
A cop killer in my book is usually a person. It might be a dog too. I have never heard of guns killing cops without input from the real cop killer.

Also knifes would be more "dangerous" than most handguns. Knifes can penetrate through almost all body armor. In the UK they found this out the hard way. Because no one can own a gun they all use knifes to attack people and they had to specially make new body armor to stop knife attacks. I saw a show on it on TV.

Gun grabbers, when will they ever learn!?!?

ilbob
December 9, 2007, 01:32 AM
cop killer handgun = any handgun, because any handgun is quite capable of killing just about anything.

IIRC, there is at least one case where a 22LR round killed an elephant.

highorder
December 9, 2007, 01:34 AM
The .50 caliber sniper rifle is an extremely lethal high-powered weapon of war advertised for its ability to shoot down airplanes and knock out targets up to four miles away.

where has this been advertised? and I know the .50BMG has range, but 6500+yards? come on.

Limeyfellow
December 9, 2007, 01:39 AM
They been going on about cop killer guns since at least 1976.

Ford started off the ball in trying to get these mythical guns banned and Reagan spent most of his presidency trying to ban them and after that about every couple of years the subject comes up.

RedLion
December 9, 2007, 01:49 AM
Quote:
The .50 caliber sniper rifle is an extremely lethal high-powered weapon of war advertised for its ability to shoot down airplanes and knock out targets up to four miles away.

where has this been advertised? and I know the .50BMG has range, but 6500+yards? come on.


I believe that is from 60 min. I saw a 60 min. show where they said pretty much the same thing. They bashed Ronnie Barrett and patronized a terrorist because he said how easy it was to buy a .50 and how "flawed" the gun laws in america were.

They should do there homework. On the history channel the navy did a study in WWII where it took about 2400 rounds of anti aircraft fire to take a airplane out of the sky. Also bombs are a terrorist favorite weapon. whos surprised these libral gun grabbers are wrong? anyone? anyone?

WaltonS
December 9, 2007, 02:04 AM
I'd like to see the bullet that could bring a plane outta the sky with one hit.

Granted, it probably contains at least 5 lbs. of explosives.

Robert Hairless
December 9, 2007, 02:30 AM
A "cop killer handgun" is simply a "criminal stopper handgun" pointed in the wrong direction.

Cops would benefit greatly if the Brady Campaign would support the NRA and every state that issues concealed weapons permits to make sure that as many good people as possible have "criminal stopper handguns."

Then there would be much fewer "cop killer handguns."

RedLion
December 9, 2007, 04:07 AM
Amen To That Robert!!!!!

Logan5
December 9, 2007, 04:22 AM
I've watched most of the applicable movies again, and I'm still sure that a "cop killer handgun" is beyond our technology at the moment. The Predators didn't even have a working example as of the mid '80s, and had to rely on that shoulder mounted plasma cannon in combination with the funky alien chakram/boomerang thing.

Don Gwinn
December 9, 2007, 11:20 AM
Necromancy is goofy and tasteless, Tecumseh, but it's not against the rules.
http://www.wizards.com/global/images/magic/general/Necromancy.jpg

Kimber1911_06238
December 9, 2007, 11:22 AM
right, because the handgun is the problem....not the wackjob shooting at the police

usmarine0352_2005
December 9, 2007, 12:18 PM
Cop Killer Handgun is a handgun that kills Cops by itself or with the assistance of a criminal.

American_Pit_Bull
December 9, 2007, 12:19 PM
Posted by Erebus:
What is a "Cop Killer" Handgun?!?!
They want them banned in my home state of Massachusetts but I can't find anything that explains what a "Cop Killer" handgun is.
Not that it makes for much of a discussion, but your question is answered in the link that you posted...
The new FiveSeveN concealable handgun is dubbed the “cop-killer” because it fires bullets that can tear right through a police officer’s bulletproof vest.

FLORIDA KEVIN
December 9, 2007, 12:26 PM
I wonder how many cops each year are killed with their own or the guns of their peers ? If is substantial would the Brady bunch then advocate disarming the polic for their own safety ?

ArmedBear
December 9, 2007, 12:31 PM
A cop killer gun is a gun in the hands of Mumia Abu-Jamal.

Somebody want to tell me why he's still kicking?

revjen45
December 9, 2007, 01:05 PM
"I'd like to see the bullet that could bring a plane outta the sky with one hit."

It's called a surface-to-air missile. Pretty expensive, and I haven't seen any at Big 5.

the_fallguy
December 9, 2007, 01:16 PM
I wonder if the Brady folks will ever realize that every time they say stuff like this it fosters an "Us vs. Them" relationship. Do you think they have a clue how many of "Us" there is?

Funderb
December 9, 2007, 01:40 PM
Serious part:
I have personally shot a fiveseven.
They're a lot of fun.
Go buy one before the ban can go through.
Sarcastic part:
What's that? The ammo is ridiculously expensive? And the civillian models
are $900? Oh jeeze, so I guess the "cop killers" might end up
spending less money on something else, like the always do.
Normal part:
And someone who can afford a .50 bmg "sniper" rifle is proably not the type of person who's going to shoot up the joint.

doc2rn
December 9, 2007, 01:51 PM
The current cop killer handgun all the LEO are mad about is the 500 S&W since it will defeat level 3 body armour. It's sheer conetic ability to stop the heart muscle even if it does not fully penetrate has caused quite a stir. I believe this was discussed before.:rolleyes:

I think this was also discussed when the .40 came out and testing revealed it could beat level 2 armour. My .02 is any firearm can be misused and thus the derrogitory term applied. The key separator for me was the use of the word handgun, when addressing .50 calibers.

RLsnow
December 9, 2007, 02:17 PM
i want a five seven, looks purdy...real purdy

WaltonS
December 9, 2007, 02:17 PM
Most guns have enough force to, upon impact, stop the heart without penetrating. A person can punch someone in the chest hard enough to do the same. However, with such an expensive gun, it should be noted that cheaper, low-quality weapons generally pose a significantly greater threat in the right (wrong?) hands.

Gunnerpalace
December 9, 2007, 02:25 PM
"If is substantial would the Brady bunch then advocate disarming the police for their own safety ?"


I'm waiting for that day then the LEO's will join us, The only reason Brady (I think VPC mulled it) has not wanted to disarm cops is the money they get from the FOP.

Carl N. Brown
December 11, 2007, 07:44 PM
Remember that in England after the 1996 Dunblane Massacre, about
700,000 noisy anti-gunners got the British Govt to ban practically
all handguns, including Olympic target shooters guns that were mostly
kept under lock'n'key at gun clubs. The 54,000 or so licensed handgun
owners kept silent hoping it would all blow over. The silent minority
lost their rights sacrificed by the politicians paying attention to a louder minority. The majority were probably indifferent to the gun control issue.

Politicians pay attention to the loudest voting minority here too.

We must not make that mistake.

mgregg85
December 11, 2007, 07:50 PM
Same brady crap with the "cop killer" five seven and the horrible .50 BMG that can bring down a 747 flying a whole 5 miles up at 400 miles per hour.

mekender
December 11, 2007, 08:08 PM
the 5.7 rounds that could pierce Kevlar are no longer available for sale to the public... i have seen em on gunbroker at the cheap price of $9 per round... the newer ss195 and ss197 rounds have a polymer tip that makes the round expand and incapable of peircing even class II let alone III... that said, the rounds can be reloaded, and since they use the same .224 bullet (lighter weight) as a .223 round, they can be loaded with steel core if desired...

guess what, the CZ 52 will also go right through kevlar...

oh and to one of the posters... its not a state law, there is actually a motion before the senate to pass a bill banning the 5.7 handgun and the ammo...

SDC
December 11, 2007, 08:29 PM
"What is a "Cop-Killer" Handgun?!?!"

It's whatever handgun they want banned next, because they know that appending "cop-killer" to it, automatically means that those sheeple who know squat about guns will be in favour of banning them. Who could possibly want one of those evil, black, "cop-killer" _____s? And you can fill in the blank with almost ANYTHING, and get the same result.

FilJos
December 11, 2007, 08:47 PM
--honorable mention goes to "Bullet Hose"

You know, that was always one of my favorites. I really like the sound of it, and I even use it myself.

yongxingfreesty
December 12, 2007, 01:38 AM
i was just going to list the fn five seven. you guys read my mind

If you enjoyed reading about "What is a "Cop Killer" Handgun?!?!" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!