Biggest threat to RKBA?


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the 22 junkie
April 10, 2006, 08:19 PM
What do you think is currently the biggest threat to the RKBA?

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the 22 junkie
April 10, 2006, 08:21 PM
What do you think is currently the biggest threat to the RKBA?

I believe the media holds alot more power to be able to twist things and selectivley report things, in turn turning puplic opinion against us, who would then make our wonderful politicians to call for more "reasonable" gun control to get votes.

cslinger
April 10, 2006, 08:25 PM
The fact that there is no right to keep and bear bullets. I am being serious here. Ammunition and the taxation of such is the weak link IMO.

Chris

the 22 junkie
April 10, 2006, 08:39 PM
http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=194305

Now with poll!

^_^

longeyes
April 10, 2006, 08:41 PM
Enthroning comfort and security as the highest civic virtues. That way lies cowardice, accompanied by fear and appeasement.

jamz
April 10, 2006, 08:42 PM
Complacency.

jamz
April 10, 2006, 08:44 PM
None of the above. Citizens complaceny and apathy are what would do the first and second amendments in.

Plus, what's the difference between Media (1) and Hollywood (9)?

beerslurpy
April 10, 2006, 08:44 PM
Poll is broken. If you select more than one, it only counts the first choice I think.

SomeKid
April 10, 2006, 08:44 PM
Apathy is our biggest threat.

dillonuser
April 10, 2006, 09:10 PM
I agree 100% with Jamz and Somekid:Apathy.

crazed_ss
April 10, 2006, 09:22 PM
I blame the Anti-Media.
They're stories are always full of outright lies or they purposely twist words to make things seem worse than they are.

That's the reason places like CA have Assault Weapons bans. When the Brady's tell people who know nothing about guns that a semi-auto rifle with a pistol grip is somehow more dangerous than a semi-auto rifle without, people will believe them. My mom was a supporter of the AWB.. I showed her a picture of an AR-15 and M1A and explained their operation. Once she saw the truth she said... "Well, that certainly doesnt make much sense for the black one to be illegal while the wooden one isnt."

I should probably be careful when using the AR-15/M1A comparison to argue against the AWB here though... some crazy anti might one day get the idea to ban all centire rifles that accept detachable mags.

When the DC snipers went crazy with that AR-15, the media jumped all over the fact that they used an "assault weapon".. even though using an AR-15 probably make them less effective "snipers". If they had been using a bolt-action Remington 700 in .30-06, they probably would have killed all 13 people they shot.

ajkurp
April 10, 2006, 09:33 PM
The country's largest gun control club. Compromising their way to tyranny one victory at a time.

They claim to speak for gun owners. They have the political clout. They have the lobbyists in Washington greasing re-election campaigns. But will they take a rock solid stand for the Constitution?

Not likely.

Maxwell
April 10, 2006, 09:34 PM
Id also agree to apathy/ignorance.
Everyone wants to disarm criminals, but I dont think anyone agrees on the most appropriate path and a few would say that taking personal property from responsable owners is any kind of solution.

Thats pretty much the result we saw in brazil and canada. Even when they dont like guns, they dont like the legal ownership option being closed off to the public.
Many dont understand that people they backed to push one popular agenda have a secondary goal thats very much against their views.

Breaking the antis down into targets of importance, politicians would top my list of dangerous people. The way things are now they can push a law into place with little effort that takes decades to repeal.
Even when the media and population swing back to being pro-gun, we'll still be fighting off old laws from the 30's.

FeebMaster
April 10, 2006, 09:48 PM
Republican voters and the NRA.

Sistema1927
April 10, 2006, 09:56 PM
Not sure that it is the "biggest" threat, but one threat would be the granting of voting rights to the 11-12 million illegal aliens who are protesting all around the country today to be granted the same rights as citizens. Looks like a mighty big block of votes for the Democrats and more support for their anti-gun/anti-freedom agenda. :barf:

I didn't think that I would ever feel like a stranger in my own country, but after it taking an extra hour to get home after work due to the thousands of cars waving white rags and Mexican flags, I felt like an outsider. :what:

I thought that we were a nation of laws, but after today I have my doubts. Sorry for the rant, but I am scared, very scared. :eek:

Zedicus
April 10, 2006, 09:59 PM
Where's the "Turncoat Shooters" Option?

IMHO they do quite a bit of damage due to the fact that they do the damage from the inside.:fire:

nvshooter
April 10, 2006, 10:46 PM
I'm there with Sistema. To grant citizenship to millions like turning on a light switch would spell the end of the American Way of Life in just a few short years. Imagine a massive voting bloc like that, voting for Democrats who promise them the moon in exchange for their vote. You'd never again see a Republican majority in the House or Senate, and you'd never again see a Republican in the White House. And you know who'd be payting for the free health care, free daycare, free medicines, automatic payraises, special rights for Latino homosexuals, et cetera. It would be the working people-- the white working people. The Mexicans would vote themselves a three-day workweek (with a very liberal leave policy) and a six-day week for everybody else. In time, the tax burden on those of us left working would be too great and we'd quit, too. Who then would support the country?

crazed_ss
April 10, 2006, 10:53 PM
"the white working people"


ummm .. whites are the only ones who pay taxes in America.. just FYI.

Sistema1927
April 10, 2006, 11:42 PM
Sorry that I started something that turned into a "race" thing. It is not just "whites" who pay taxes, but US citizens and legal resident aliens from all corners of the planet and all races.

I have no problem with immigration, just illegal immigration. After all, my Dad's family immigrated to this country in 1629, and my Mom immigrated here in 1950. In both cases, these immigrants came the proper way, the first under a charter from the king, and the second with proper paperwork from our State Department. Even though my Mom married a US citizen, she still had to take citizenship classes, take a test, and await her proper turn.

Part of the problem with granting "amnesty" or other preferential treatment to those who have entered our country illegally is the fact that this sets the precedent that US laws dont' need to be obeyed. It also does a great discredit to all those who have followed the rules in their quest to become citizens of this great nation.

Getting back to the topic at hand, if our immigration laws don't need to be obeyed (or our national sovereignty protected), then why should we care about that dusty old US Constitution or any of its amendments?

Shweboner
April 11, 2006, 12:04 AM
APATHY!!!

It will be the downfall of this country, not just RKBA

As long as the masses can stuff junk food into their obese faces while they watch Survivor, why should they care what goes on....


Or maybe its the "hunting" crowd...

I am so damn tired of seeing old white guys in $200 vests with a O/U craked open over their shoulder, it &*#@! me off so bad. Lets see an average guy with a Mossy 500 or an AK/AR type rifle, who shoots for fun.



Then again I could be wrong... Maybe its all of those dirty Messicans commin here illegal like????????:banghead:

SIOP
April 11, 2006, 12:20 AM
Republicans dressed up as conservatives.

hillbilly
April 11, 2006, 12:30 AM
You forgot a category.

How about "Frappin idiots who think the NRA is an anti-gun organization?"

hillbilly

LAK
April 11, 2006, 06:25 AM
Wolves in sheeps' clothing. It wasn't listed as an option, but it is the greatest threat.
---------------------------------

http://ussliberty.org
http://ssunitedstates.org

nonquixote
April 11, 2006, 07:54 AM
I think that it's just a matter of time. America is becoming more and more urbanized. Unlike their more independent rural brethren, city dwellers tend to view life as a team sport, where the manager can and is expected to tell the players (citizens) how and where to play for the good of the team. Eminent domain laws are an example of this.

Also, each new generation of americans is now dumber, fatter, and whinier than the one before them. We are gradually losing the toughness and independent spirit that made this country what it was at its height.

Also, we may be approaching the time when infrastructural systems are so interdependent and fragile that individual liberty will be considered an unaffordable luxury. The BATFE and other alphabet organizations are monitoring us because of fear of the great harm that a small number of individuals with "too much freedom" can do. After 911 and Oklahoma City the net result was a loss of liberty for the ordinary Joe in the name of safety.

We can win concessions in the short term, but these trends don't look good for the long term future of our 2nd ammendment and other individual freedoms.

RealGun
April 11, 2006, 08:55 AM
I figure that Congress or a President is only dangerous when the belief is that the SCOTUS will not intervene. It all comes down to whether RKBA will ultimately be defended. Certainly in general it has not been.

geekWithA.45
April 11, 2006, 09:36 AM
The single biggest threat to RKBA is our society's lack of an overwhelming, abiding belief in the value of RKBA.

Slowly, this is changing.

However, it is still sub critical mass.

As a result of this, there is a "perfect storm" intersection of


* a vocal, well organized and funded forces of gun bigotry, which is amplified by
* a hostile press,
* an education system which ranges from hostile to negligent on 2A issues, and the Lockean basis of our Republic in general,
* political champions in the Democratic party, which flourishes and exploits
* an unsettled legal landscape.

RealGun
April 11, 2006, 10:25 AM
The single biggest threat to RKBA is our society's lack of an overwhelming, abiding belief in the value of RKBA.

Not disagreeing necessarily, but if the Constitution really meant anything, this would be moot. The fight would be over any attempt to repeal or water down the Second Amendment. We already have the issue of ignoring the 14A when it comes to applying the 2A to the States.

publius
April 11, 2006, 10:36 AM
Uh oh... Where's Hugh D.? ;)

geekWithA.45
April 11, 2006, 10:44 AM
It's a chicken or egg thing.

A society with an overwhelming, abiding belief in RKBA would not electorally tolerate the state of infringement that exists, rendering judicial cowardice on the issue moot.

Judicial bravery on the issue would render soft public support of RKBA moot.

At the end of the day, the will to infringe comes from, or is at least tacitly supported by, the people, and it is THAT which creates the danger to us.

If I had to choose between wide, persistent public support, or judicial support in our current context, I'd pick public support, because THAT will eventually cause the judicial support to fall into line, whereas I can't really say that would be true in the opposite direction.

RealGun
April 11, 2006, 11:02 AM
Solid reasoning, but I would rather think of mention in the Constitution and an expectation that such would be upheld as protections from the tyranny of the majority as well as government tyranny. They have to want to infringe upon the right bad enough to change the Constitution. You would be dead on correct if that day is approaching or really could happen. I suppose I could argue that if all gun owners appreciated how it is that they have guns, the numbers would be sufficient to sustain the RKBA.

Big threats to the RKBA are all the lies and misleading arguments. Ultimately the question will be whether the People should have any real physical power.

sm
April 11, 2006, 11:59 AM
Apathy
Denial
Complacency

longeyes
April 11, 2006, 02:14 PM
I'm there with Sistema. To grant citizenship to millions like turning on a light switch would spell the end of the American Way of Life in just a few short years. Imagine a massive voting bloc like that, voting for Democrats who promise them the moon in exchange for their vote. You'd never again see a Republican majority in the House or Senate, and you'd never again see a Republican in the White House. And you know who'd be payting for the free health care, free daycare, free medicines, automatic payraises, special rights for Latino homosexuals, et cetera. It would be the working people-- the white working people. The Mexicans would vote themselves a three-day workweek (with a very liberal leave policy) and a six-day week for everybody else. In time, the tax burden on those of us left working would be too great and we'd quit, too. Who then would support the country?

You got a problem with Plantation Economics? Don't worry, Cardinal Mahony will be there to offer kind words.

Topgun
April 11, 2006, 02:37 PM
Combined with a full "mine only" mentality that excludes plinkers from hunters and hunters from collectors and collectors from rapid-fire blasters and them from home protectors.

Gun OWNERS have elevated their guns to a higher (and more treacherous) plane than a TOOL and are paying the price.

Just go to a range. Nobody polices their brothers. Unless it's a range officer who is a frustrated part time security guard with 35 years in the military at the rank of corporal who loves to yell and throw his weight around.

We gun owners will aid and abet the organized interests that wish to disarm us as they simply are faster on their feet.

:(

Gordon Fink
April 11, 2006, 03:36 PM
The greatest threat to our legal right to arms is those who fear freedom (whether they be in the electorate, in the entertainment media, in political office, in anti-gun groups, in law enforcement, in education, or even in pro-gun groups) and the wars against abstractions that their fear spawns.

~G. Fink

Stiletto Null
April 11, 2006, 03:39 PM
I voted media, Prez, and morons.

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