[Nightcrawler]

I'm planning on getting an M1, probably this summer. I have questions. Note that the M1 Garand I really want is an Orion 7 Select Grade with many new GI spec parts, including the barrel.

-I've heard people say you can't (or shouldn't) fire modern higher-powered commerical ammunition in it. That ammo is what gives .30-06 an advantage over .308. I've heard that "hunting" .30-06 loads will bend the op-rod. I've also heard that it doesn't like 220 grain bullets. Is any of this true?

-What, exactly, is the "op-rod"? Is that the same thing as the gas piston on an AK or FAL?

-What parts need regular CLP lube and what parts need grease?

-Just for grins, are there any scope mounts I could use? Note that I can't use an original M1D scope mount; I'm left handed. Nothing that requires permanently modifying the rifle, though.

Thanks.

[hps1]

-I've heard people say you can't (or shouldn't) fire modern higher-powered commerical ammunition in it. That ammo is what gives .30-06 an advantage over .308. I've heard that "hunting" .30-06 loads will bend the op-rod. I've also heard that it doesn't like 220 grain bullets. Is any of this true?

In a word, Yes.

Heavy bullets and slow powders normally used to drive them will bend your op rod. The garand is designed for bullet weights in the 150 - 175 grain range and, if you handload, 4895 or similar burn rate powder is the powder of choice. Slow powders create low breech pressure, but develop too high "port pressure" which is transmitted to the op-rod. The op=rod is the part with the bolt handle on one end and the gas piston on the other.

Lightly grease the bolt lugs, the op-rod where it runs in the groove on the side of your receiver, be sure to get a small amt. of grease inside the hump on the op rod where right bolt lug rides. Also the hammer where it contacts bottom of bolt as it is cocked. I also wipe very thin coat of grease on bottom of bolt and bottom of barrel under chamber, where op rod contacts the barrel. Coat the op-rod spring w/grease and the follower arm pin to reduce wear on follower arm. Don't go overboard anywhere, a light coat will do. After shooting a hundred or so rounds, the bright spots that appear in the finish will give you a clue as to friction points.

After shooting, turn the rifle muzzle down, w/bolt open, drop a few drops of CLP on op rod where it disappears into gas cyl. and work bolt back & forth a few times to distribute the oil inside cyl. if you do not plan to disassemble and clean completely. Let rifle stand muzzle down for a while. Also use a chamber brush and CLP on chamber to remove any carbon. A drop of CLP on gas cyl plug threads each time it is removed is a good idea, as well.

Regards,
hps

[dfariswheel]

As best I can, in order:

You can use modern ammo, BUT, it has to duplicate the original GI ball powder ballistics. Faster or slower burning powders aren't suitable.

Modern hunting (soft point, expanding) bullets MAY not feed well since the M1 was designed to use full metal jacketed bullets. You won't know until you try it, most do, but you may need to try several brands/types.

NEVER use heavy bullets of over 175 grains or so. The heavy bullets can cause bending of the "op rod". I personally stick to the 150 grain, although I did fire several hundred 173 grain GI Match bullets

The op rod, is the operating rod. This is like the bolt carrier in the AK. The rear part is the bolt handle, the front part is the gas piston. The M1 has a long, tubular front section, and a narrow rear section. The rod can be bent if heavy bullets are used, ESPECIALLY if the rifle isn't GREASED properly.

The M1 requires parts like the bolt lugs, the hammer nose, and the op rod "saddle" and cam surfaces be greased with something equivalent to the GI specification Lubriplate grease.
A good lube method is to apply a very thin coat of CLP Breakfree to all surfaces as a rust proofer, and lube most everything else with grease, including the hammer and trigger pins.

For online Garand manuals look here:

http://www.jouster.com/lanestips/

http://www.surplusrifle.com/downloads.asp

http://www.biggerhammer.net/manuals/

So, grease just about everything with a thin coat of a good heat resistant and waterproof grease like the original Lubriplate, make sure the ammo is equivalent to original GI , and don't shoot heavy bullets.

Scope mount: sorry can't help you there.

[CGofMP]

A few years ago I put together a site called The M1 Garand An American Companion In Three Wars - AKA Charles' M1 Newbie Site (http://www.memorableplaces.com/m1garand/)

You will find lots of interesting stuff there.

The CMP bought a large chunk of the site from me and I have placd it on their servers here (http://www.civilianmarksmanship.com/)

The page made about the OpRod is right here (http://www.civilianmarksmanship.com/nomenclaturehtml/nomenclatureoperatingrod.html)


You will find a brief description and some photos including these:

http://www.civilianmarksmanship.com/nomenclaturephotos/detoprod.jpg
Oprod and K-Bar Knife

http://www.civilianmarksmanship.com/nomenclaturephotos/nomenoprodpistonend.jpg
Operating Rod Tip

http://www.civilianmarksmanship.com/nomenclaturephotos/nomenoprodonpaper.jpg
Oprod Center Section

For more info please drop by my M1 site if you are interested at: http://www.memorableplaces.com/m1garand/

Enjoy!
Charles

[Nightcrawler]

That's a little dissapointing. I've been looking for a good, semiauto .30-06 that can handle a wide variety of ammo. I greatly dislike "sporting" rifles; they're flimsy, as a rule, and unreliable, at least the Remington is. The BAR takes some kind of funky swing-out magazine that I don't like and my experience with the Remington 7400 has been less than satisfactory.

GI ball .30-06 doesn't offer any advantage over NATO ball .308, I don't think.

[hondo68]

Get a vented gas plug and shoot as hot and heavy as you dare.

http://www.adcofirearms.com/adjustnut.jpg

Some plugs have changeable jets. The Adco (http://www.adcofirearms.com/gasnuts.cfm) one above has an allen wrench adjutable screw.

[Nightcrawler]

Oh, cool. There we go. I don't mind tinerking a little.

What about scope mounts?

[Jim K]

Hi, Nightcrawler and guys,

Just to clarify, it is not the use of heavy bullets in itself that can bend an op rod. It is the slow burning powder that is used with those bullets which still has high pressure at the M1 gas port. It is that high pressure that can bend an op rod.

Op rod bending is much exaggerated, though. It is uncommon, even in the above circumstances and the bend is slight, usually not even being noticeable except in highly tuned match rifles.

Sorry that the M1 may not satisfy your needs. You are right that GI .30-'06 loads are only a bit heavier than .308.

But the M1 is a military rifle, designed to be used with certain specifications of ammunition. The vented gas cylinder lock screw may meet your needs, or you may have to operate the rifle as a straight pull bolt action with some loadings. (This is sometimes done in states which do not allow semi-auto rifles for hunting.)

Jim