[John G]

This idea has been brewing for some time, and I've finally figured what I want. My dream rifle would have the following:

-Mannlicher stock
-Straight-grip
-Peep sights
-Bolt action
-short barrel, 18-22 inches

I first thought I'd take an existing action, like a milsurp Mauser, and throw it on a custom stock, then add the sights. But now I'm leaning towards getting a Ruger M77 International Carbine, and have the stock cut. I have the 10/22 International, and love it, but I really want a centerfire rifle with these specs. For caliber, I was thinking .308. I would use this for target shooting, whitetail deer, and in the future, other N. American big game.

Where can I have the stock work done? What's a good sight? (I was thinking Williams), any suggestions are welcome.

Thanks for the help!

[John G]

Before and after?

http://groups.msn.com/i94ur7h0hc4b4h5g3phno74187/Documents/ruger%20int.%20carbine.bmp

[COHIBA]

you just described my dream rifle, too.
AMAZING!
i settled for a ruger #1 RSI in 7mm mauser.
i also have a straight stock ruger 77/50 blackpowder but its now a full stock.
the #1 RSI isnt made in 308 anymore.
as far as stock work i have used great american gunstocks before and they have have great wood.
let me know if you find any other info.

[rick_reno]

Sako used to make a Mannlicher styled rifle, I have a couple of them. I don't know if they're still making it. The supposed advantage of the Sako over the others are the forend of the stock is cut in two pieces and secured with a barrel band. This is supposed to relieve pressure on the barrel, which I'd read was a problem in some Mannlicher configuratons. Sako also used to make a nice peep sight that attached to their dovetail scope mounts; I've got one for mine and it works very well, I carry in my pack when hunting as a scope backup. The barrel on the Sako's I have is around 18 inches. They're very accurate rifles with the right ammo and handy - I like short rifles. They don't have the straight stock you mention. They were made in most center fire calibers up to the 375 H&H.
I think the Remington custom shop is/was making a Mannlicher styled rifle too and Steyr made them for years. Most I've seen are Steyr's.

[JGReed]

John G, can't see the pic in your post.

[John G]

Hmm, the image shows up for me. It shows the Ruger M77 Inernational, and what it might look like after my alterations.

COHIBA, does "Great American Gunstocks" have a website? I was considering a single-shot, like the Ruger #1, but I think a one-piece stock on a bolt gun will look nicer.

[Mannlicher]

While some of these might look on the surface like a Mannlicher-Schoenauer, they are of course, only immitations.:D

I have , ahem, a few REAL Mannlicher-Schoenauer rifles and full stocked carbines. Nothing else comes close.:evil:

I also have a Ruger International in .250 Ackley, and a custom Mauser 7X57 with a full length stock, as well as a Ruger 10/22 International.

[John G]

Mannlicher, with a board handle like that, I'd expect nothing less!:D

I'd love to see some pics of your rifles. Feel free to post them here if you can.

[COHIBA]

oddly enough, www.gunstocks.com will get you there.

[M38]

Three Questions
1) How is Mannlicher pronounced?
2) If the stock gets wet, won't a Mannlicher compound the possibility of the barrel being improperly pressured?
3) What would be the best cartridge for a carbine for deer/black bear/elk size game?
I ask these because I've always wanted a Mannlicher style rifle, but questions 2&3 have always made me think twice.
Thanks

[rick_reno]

I think it's pronounced "Man Licker"
Barrel pressure is supposedly one of the reasons the Sako styled mannlicher rifles have the forend in two pieces - it's probably also easier to make. I've talked to a few others who have the one piece stocks and they haven't reported any problems with the stock putting pressure on the barrel - and up here we can hunt in some very wet conditions.
I have one in 7mm mag - I use it on all the game you mentioned. It's a very accurate rifle, like most of the Sako's I own are but I had a hard time finding a load it liked. I shoot 175 gr. bullets in it. My other one is in 375 H&H, it takes up space in my safe.

[Gordon]

I have a 1956 Model Mannlicher Schoenauer Deluxe Carbine in 3006. It has a Kahles Helia 2.3-7 scope on a Jaegar detachable side mount with 2 levers. It is very accurate for 3 shots or so then begins to string loads a bit. I think this is one of the most beautiful works of mechanical art that has ever been made. This was a deceased uncle's deer gun , it is about 80% with a couple scratches from being carried a couple days a year for 20 years. It is a treasure I wouldn't sell for $5000. The spool magazine with unloader feature brings tears to my eyes. The heavy German picket post reticle can be seen after sunset. The butterknife bolt is on silk and honey bearing. It has double safeties!The set trigger goes off at a breath. The gun feels good in your hands, jumps to your shoulder and carries on your shoulder thru brush. It feels like a rich man's walking stick. My Uncle Gil had taste!:D

[John G]

:) Nice post, Gordon. Very descriptive! You've got me drooling over here.

[Doc]

where is El Tejon when you need him? Ask him about the utility of a Mannlicher stock...:barf:

[El Tejon]

Doc, I'm right here. I was off saving lives (or at least mitigating the damage thereto).

Doc's right I had horrific problems with a mannlicher-stocked Ruger RSI at GPR at TR recently. A combination of an incomplete gunsmithing job and a scope with reversed control (gee, thanks, Leupold). If I was not given that feckless tool by a good client, I would have left it in Tejas behind the berm. Last day of class I switched out to a M1A.

That was the last one for me. The rifle is presently in the GWR, hopefully having the eeevil spirits exercised in some Suid Afrikan ceremony.:D

John, make sure you understand the limitations of a particular weapon before you make it your one and only. "Iwannacoolgun" virus is very frustrating, expensive and as persistent as an HPV (that's right, right, Doc?).

A pretty-looking sow's ear is still a sow's ear. Give me working ugly!!! Next rifle will be what Dr. Jawbone's wife was shooting :cool:

[El Tejon]

Doc, can you post that pic of Mrs. Doc with the critter and the rifle I cite?

[JGReed]

El Tejon,

Could you tell me more about the limitations you are referring to?
I re-read your posts on your TR trip but didn't catch any problems with the Mannlicher stock, seemed to be with the scope. You mentioned your shots continued to go high, but I wasn't sure if it was the stock or the scope continuing to cause issues?

The Mannlicher stock is way cool, but I'm far more interested in performance than looks.

[El Tejon]

JGReed, well, it depends. When we were shooting at 200 and 300, we were shooting off our rests (bipods or, in my case, range bag). Off the bag, the weapon shot high so that my "chest" shots went into the head. We traced this back to a screwed up scope.

From field positions, especially prone, the torque of the sling (Jeff did not have time to put a sling on it or bed the weapon properly, so I bought a cobra carry strap in Austin) on the full-length stock caused the weapon to scatter even as I adjusted my hold. Very frustrating. Inside 100 it worked very well as long as I kept the pressure off the stock.

Part of the educational process is learning what gear works and what does not. To quote Toby Keith, "I learned a hard lesson in a small Tejas town" never bring the "Iwannacoolgun" to a fight. That's why they call it skul.:D Should have brought my unsmithed M66 instead. There will be a next time!

[Doc]

El Tejon:

I would be proud to share some photos!

The gun to which you refer is a Robar custom of a Ruger in .308. I am not sure which ruger it is, but it has a magazine with a floorplate. The barrel is Robar and the stock is black synthetic.

[Doc]

still trying to post the photos here on THR

but you can go to see some of the hunt photos (http://homepage.mac.com/plsmd/PhotoAlbum2.html) and THE GUN of which El Tejon speaks

[John G]

Is this problem common with full-stocked rifles, or an isolated incident?

[Doc]

As far as AI know, all full stock rifles. But one would hypothesize that if the rifle barrel was truly free floating a full stock shouldn't effect the point of impact.

[Mannlicher]

Rick, a more accurate pronunciaton would be "mann-la-ker", with the accent on the first syllable.

Gordon, your 1956 sounds like quite a nice carbine. That is truely a carbine to lust after. For me, nothing comes close to the ergonomics, and handling of a Mannlicher rifle or carbine. The spool mag is by far the best method devised to feed a rifle. The hand work and machining that went into these old rifles precludes their being made today. I hate to think what that many man hours would cost.

The one I hunt with the most, is a 1908, rebarreled to 8x57 Mauser. Harry McGowen made the barrel, and it is an exact copy of the original, other than the chambering. This is a beat up looking old carbine, but mechanically it is as sound as the day it left the Steyr factory.

[El Tejon]

Doc, I assume that would depend on how the 'smith addresses the contact points. We'll see how that wily, old Afrikaan addresses the issue. Then I'll get another.

Heck, I told him that if he deems it best, to scrap that "Iwannacoolstock" and install that nifty syn stock that Clint had on his. Ugly=works. It's only money. If he didn't get it, the IDoR would.:neener:

Thanks for posting those pics of your lovely, young bride (oh, and of the rifle as well), Doc. The rifle is a Ruger M77, MkI with the old top tang safety. The weapon is on its 3d barrel and is a wonderfully slick piece of gear (slick because of incremental stackup). Mrs. Dr. Jawbone let me check it out.

Now, if I can just convince the Wizard of GWR to put iron sights on mine. "Acchh, dat rrrrifle not needen irrron sighten." I know, but I'd sleep better (yeah, right, like I sleep).:D

[John G]

Has anyone else had problems with a mannlicher-style stock?

ET's experience is making me nervous. While this would certainly not be my only rifle, I would like it to shoot straight.

[El Tejon]

John, isn't it funny how the guys who have problems with gear actually take stuff out and shoot it in front of other people and find out what works and what doesn't? That never happens in the gun shoppe or gun rags!:D

[Gordon]

The English call the full length rifle"stalking rifles" and use them as walking sticks(butt down!) in the Highlands. I think that is the idea of the full length stock, it was not an ornamental'tail fin' originally. Being a walking and hunting rifle it is therefore reasonable to assume a zero not hold for more than 3 rapid shots. So the 'wandering zero that USUALLY is inherent in full length fore stocks, usually capped with a metal foreend tip to barrel retaining cap (in traditional Mannlichers) is a moot point. I think if you want a target or varmint or range gun look else where, maybe pillar bedding. If you want a sexy piece of art that is a great hunting gun get a Mannlicher stock design.The old 2 piece Sako guns were good, if not the most accurate in Sako line they were the prettiest. I'd love to find the rare bird .375 H&H Sako Carbine Mannlicher!

[John G]

El Tejon,

Yeah, it seems the braggarts got to be "experts" by never making a mistake. I don't read the gun magazines as much as I used to, looking at "action pics" of overweight gun writers makes me sick. That, and I can't remember the last time I read a bad review. Seems like there's no gun (or gun company check) that these guys don't love. :rolleyes:

I've never had accuracy problems with my 10/22 International carbine, but I suppose that's different than a centerfire would be.

[Rick R]

I've owned one of the M77RSI rifles in .308 for several years. It's not the most accurate rifle off the bench, but it jumps to the shoulder and points like a good shotgun. It does the job for me shooting up to 200 yds but no it's not a targt rifle, my M77VTR does that duty.

My perfect rifle would be a Mannlicher in .376 Steyr with a scout scope setup and a backup ghost ring sight. That one will take a while to assemble. :)

Rick

[El Tejon]

Rick, IIRC, that set up was a Scout prototype.

[rick_reno]

Gordon wrote "I'd love to find the rare bird .375 H&H Sako Carbine Mannlicher!"

Gordon - I watch Gunbroker from time to time, and I see one popping up there often. I've got one in 375, so I look to see what they're going for. The one listed there hadn't sold last time I saw it.

I hunt with a Sako mannlicher style gun in 7mm mag. It's very accurate (sub-MOA) with the right bullet load. I've found it only likes to shoot the Remington core lock 175 gr. bullets, so that's what I use.