Goodbye Citizen's of America


April 22, 2003, 02:25 AM
This is discouraging. :( If only the RKBA movement had a few wealthy individual and corporate supporters, like the gun control crowd, if only.COA (

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April 22, 2003, 03:50 AM
There are so many RKBA orgs - I think the support is dissipated.

They actually thought they could pull off $10 from 10% of the 75Mil gun owners?

I think I am pretty plugged in and these guys are on the very fringe of my awareness.

Nice to see optimism but these guys gotta eat. I wish them the best.

J Miller
April 22, 2003, 09:39 AM
I'm on line every day reading something shooting related. Mostly in the various forums I belong to. And I never heard of them.
Wow. I don't think I call that being on the fringe, I'd say more like WAY OUT in left field.
Sorry they didn't make themselfs more visible.

April 22, 2003, 09:46 AM
Never heard of them until right now.

- Gabe

Henry Bowman
April 22, 2003, 09:47 AM
:( The COA was an organization I dreamed of funding if I ever won the lottery.

I think that it is important to inform the masses that the trash spewed by the Brady's and MMM's is NOT the majority opinion. This is know as "social norm" perception and has been used on college campuses in ad campaigns to dispell the myth that "everybody gets drunk" or "everybody smokes pot" or "everybody is having sex." When people understand that the truth is that only a few on the margin hold such beliefs, then they are not so intimidated to voice their own opinion like "2 drinks are enough for me" or "guns save many innocent lives."

It's sort of using the 1st Amendment to "open carry." Get people used to the idea that not all people with guns are criminals and if the SHTF, it would be nice to have a good guy with a gun around (not just LEO's).

Oleg Volk
April 22, 2003, 10:05 AM
I've always linked to them from my web site. That said, it's been over a year since they got any money from me...all that I get goes into running my own site. That's a real pity that they have to quit...maybe they'll latch onto KABA and make that org even more viable.

April 22, 2003, 10:16 AM
I think Pendragon nailed it. The movement is too fragmented. Outside of the NRA, who do I support? GOA, JPFO, 2ndA Sisters, KABA, SAF, Pink Pistols, AFA, or COA? (I know there are more, these just came to mind....)

I think many here agree we need an alternative to the NRA, but with the alternatives so fragmented it is questionable if any of them will ever become truly viable.

April 22, 2003, 10:41 AM
COA did a lot of behind-the-scenes work. Just because the staff didn't open their mouths all the time and proclaim how effectively they're working for your rights while supporting compromises doesn't mean they weren't a viable, crucial group to the pro 2A movement. I'm sorry to see them go. :(

April 22, 2003, 11:29 AM
Fragmented is a good word. The pro-gun movement lacks focus in a big way. Either the organization has compromised it's position by playing politics or muddies it's position by proclaiming some invisible deity has given us the right to defend ourselves, or some other unrelated thing. I know that JPFO would gladly accept anybody as a member, and I think I understand the J them the moral high-ground as it were.. Try searching for god on GOA's website and you'll have too many hits for their search engine to handle.

It's a free market, and the market has decided to kick one out. As far as I'm concerned that's a good thing. Perhaps someday we will be able to present a united front for self defense rights and win.

April 22, 2003, 12:04 PM
COA was a crucial part of our fight. Problem is while the antis are consistently able to raise millions of dollars for their cause, gun owners appear to be less ready and willing to part with their money.

Fragmented? Brady, MMM, Mothers Against Gun Violence, VPC, jointogether, Gun Industry Watch, Physicians for Social Responsibility, Legal Community Against Violence & the Firearms Law Center,, Handgun-Free America, Bell, PAX, Joyce Foundation... There are so many of these moron anti organizations, it's not even funny!

It's not about fragmentation. The more pro-second amendment organizations are out there, the better. COA and other pro-2A groups have folded, because of the unwillingness of gun owners to get involved and do something beyond flapping their jaws and casting a vote on election day. I'm sorry, but it's true.

April 22, 2003, 03:55 PM
Im with Tempest. The more Pro-Gun groups, the better. What sucks about COA folding is that I really believed it was making a difference. So much so that I allowed them to debit my account every month. It was money very well spent as far as Im concerned, but now... :(

For those of you who have never heard of them til now, downloads of their messages are still available. My favorite was Im no slave (

April 22, 2003, 04:04 PM
Perhaps many gun owners are tired of trying to keep up with all the obscure gun groups? COA in many areas, obviously marketing wasn't a strong point.

April 22, 2003, 09:12 PM
Maybe marketing wasn't their objective. I'm an NRA member and a contributing editor to their publications, but I also recognize their marketing goals. COA worked behind the scenes and was a vigilant partner in the fight for your Second Amendment rights. Just because Brian Puckett, Dave Codrea and crew didn't open their mouths and scream about their activities from the rooftops, doesn't meant they weren't vital. Their organization was crucial to our fight. I, for one, will miss them. A LOT!

April 22, 2003, 10:32 PM
I liked their radio ads, but I hadn't sent them any money for a while because I felt the 2nd AM lawsuit was a wasted effort. However I think it will be important to fund a MAJOR anti AWB ad campaign next year.

April 23, 2003, 08:44 AM
Listen guys -- I just donated my monthly salary from my part time job to the Silveira suit. It will be a win-win situation for us. Believe me! The worst thing that could happen is that SCOTUS refuses to hear the case, in which case we are no worse off than we are today. The best thing that could happen is that SCOTUS will rule in favor of the Second Amendment. The latter is very likely.

Come on, folks - have some faith for once. Get up, put your money where your mouth is, and do something!

Victory is within our grasp on this one. We have one of the most prolific and experienced attorneys working on our side - Roy Lucas.

I'll eat my own shoes if we lose this one - that's how sure I am of victory here.

For once - stand up, get all your pro-2A friends together and make a team effort to fund this thing!

This suit has every potential of being a groundbreaking decision, but not without each and every one of you.

...Not without support from gun owners.

You see crucial gun rights groups folding because of lack of participation, lack of funding and a lack of commitment from those who claim to be Second Amendment rights supporters!

They're giving up.


Because it appears gun owners aren't willing to put their money where their mouths are.

Because it appears gun owners aren't willing to do anything but talk about how much they love freedom.

This is your chance to do something. So do it!

Don't give up on it.

Slack-jawed loser cretins like Brady and PAX seem to be able to raise a half a million dollars in one night, and we can't raise that much in a year?????

THAT - more than anything - is why groups that exist to protect your Second Amendment rights are shutting down. They think you've given up. They think you don't care. They think you're all talk and no commitment.

It's time to prove them wrong.

Take a look here. Read it carefully again. (

Examine the kind of firepower we have behind this suit, and then do what your conscience tells you to do.

April 23, 2003, 09:57 AM
Get up, put your money where your mouth is

Sounds like you are assuming everybody's mouth is behind this.

The only way we are going to get the national laws to change, is to start with our local laws. We have much better odds of changing city, county and state laws via grassroots effort. Once those are changed, fixing the countries laws become much much easier.

I fully support local efforts on this front.

April 23, 2003, 10:12 AM
Sounds like you are assuming everybody's mouth is behind this. I'm not assuming anything. I'm going by the facts in evidence. A year ago we ran a poll asking of the respondents whether or not they would commit funds to take the 2A fight to the Supreme Court. The question was: The Supreme Court has yet to rule clearly on two fundamental aspects of the Second Amendment: that it is an individual right, and that it protects military-suitable (militia) firearms. Assuming a good lawsuit were identified that would address either or both of these matters, and that competent legal representation were obtained, would you contribute money to fund such a Second Amendment lawsuit? There were 1800 respondents with 95% replying they would contribute at least $10 - some over $100 and some over $1000. Take a look at the results and do the math (

Yes, we need to work on the state and local level. No doubt. But we also need a clear SCOTUS decision on the Second Amendment. The Constitution is still the Law of the Land. That is what binds us together as a country. We need a clear ruling as a basis for all we're willing to do.

Look, it's not just about money. Gun owners appear to talk a good game about wanting to protect their rights, but ask them to volunteer, to write letters, to make phonecalls, to help get votes, to contribute money - in other words: anything more than confirm their support on the internet or verbally - and they always seem to have better things to do.

So let's do something! Let's get a concrete SCOTUS decision once and for all and end this unconstitutional insanity!

Partisan Ranger
April 23, 2003, 11:41 AM

How did you become a contributing editor? I have been in contact with Mark Chesnut at America's First Freedom and he was interested in an article from me but I haven't heard back from him. The piece was published in The Washington Times and a couple other places so I am confident it was a good piece.

I would like to write regularly for First Freedom or another NRA publication but haven't been successful to date. I'm a freelance writer in addition to my regular writing job and have had work published for pay in other venues but not in guns.


April 23, 2003, 11:48 AM
Ranger, email me: and I can give you a few contact names.

Publications is SUPER busy right now, because we had to change a bunch of stuff around to fit in war features last minute. That may be the reason Mark hasn't gotten back to you yet. He's usually pretty good about getting back. Also, they've got the convention in Florida as well, and they need to get all official pubs mailed before then.

April 23, 2003, 02:37 PM
Here is a very well written statement on rights of gun owners in California by Mr. Puckett;

Please read.Well ,maybe not rights but worth the read anyway...

April 23, 2003, 04:42 PM
Never heard of them either.

Hummmm ... thinking if I could get a $1 form every gun owner ... I could retire!

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