Wolf ammo - is this the 'ammo ban' on the AK-series?


PDA






Brass Fetcher
April 15, 2006, 11:35 PM
Having just checked all of the ammo sites that I know of on the internet and most of my local gun shops, I have noticed one commonality - no Wolf ammo in 7.62x39mm or 5.45x39mm.

What is your take on this? I think that if the Wolf starts shipping (my only choice that I know of in 5.45mm?) again, that we can all just reflect on what a 'de facto' gun ban in the form of ammunition denial feels like.

JE223

If you enjoyed reading about "Wolf ammo - is this the 'ammo ban' on the AK-series?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
hso
April 16, 2006, 12:23 AM
I just got 3,000 rounds of Wolf 7.62x39 in. It had been on back order since January. Consider that the Iraqi government is consuming a lot of production and you won't have any trouble figuring out why there's a "shortage".

browningguy
April 16, 2006, 12:35 AM
I don't shoot Wolf but all the shops around here have plenty of Monarch and other brands, all around $2.50-$3 per box.

Kenneth Lew
April 16, 2006, 03:59 AM
How can there be a ban, if you can still buy the caliber through other brands? :rolleyes:

gunsmith
April 16, 2006, 08:16 AM
smelly excrement imho

aguyindallas
April 16, 2006, 10:07 AM
Guys, we have whipped the holy crap out of this poor decaying dead horse.

I know this istn something I would actually search BEFORE I posted, but go ahead and do a search just for kicks.

Mizzle187
April 16, 2006, 11:29 AM
For what its work I shoot wolf(all new type) at the range through my RRA CAR A4(close to 2000 rounds) with no noticable negative affects. I shoot Wolf(mostly old stuff) through my sks and AK(close to 4000+ rounds each) with no negative affects. I know thats not the best example but hey. I also shoot Wolf(all new type) through my XD45(close to 2000 rounds) and have seen no negative affects. Does it stink? Hell yes! Is it dirtier than others? Of course but I clean my gun after everytime I shoot. Are there certani guns that hate Wolf? You bet your a**. I have one. My Kel-Tec PLR16. IMO it is almost a sin not to shoot Wolf. One for the price and two I want my AR,SKS,& AK to shoot anyhting out there as they should and they have so far. Since the US shortage of Wolf 7.62x39 others have really stepped up to the plate for us and supplied us with 7.62x39 and at the same time are making some money. God bless them! I have switched to Tiger during these times and it has worked flawlessly!

Brass Fetcher
April 16, 2006, 12:34 PM
aguyindallas,

Thank you for your insightfull response. The main point of my question was what people thought of the current state of affairs RE Wolf ammo and how it simulates what an ammo ban would look like. Being an absolute newcomer to computers, I will have to head your advice to search BEFORE I post.

Having searched again, it seems that one thread in about 40 identifies possible causes as the wars in the Middle East and potential stockpiling by Venezuela. Any other ideas?

I believe that I can buy brass cases for the 5.45x39mm from Lapua (if 5.45x39mm = '.220 Russian'), but they are asking 54 dollars for 100 cases. This effectively makes 1000 loaded rounds at least 650 dollars if you were to load these cases yourself.

That is good news though that 7.62x39mm is still available to some extent, as are the other high popularity calibers.

Mizzle187
April 16, 2006, 12:46 PM
Its just one of those things. If you dont have numerous guns in numerous calibers which many many people dont(i was one of those people for the longest) it affects you more. Say you have a Ak/SKS(7.62x39) and a 9mm pistol. Shooting a pistol may get old and when you dont have access to ammo for your rifle it sucks. Hell you may have the money to buy ammo but feel that it is irresoinsible to pay the outrages prices for it. I fell for these people I do. Thats why I think its so important to have a rifle and pistol in .22
I know that that gets old too and you feel the need to shoot somehting high powered. If everyone refused to pay the high prices for it things could change but there are to many people out there that will. Best thing to do is order some Wolf and wait a few months for it to come in.

Sewerman
April 16, 2006, 03:24 PM
There is no wolf shortage here.

hso
April 16, 2006, 04:20 PM
JE223,

I won't swear to it, but I don't think 5.45X39 is .220 Russian. The price of $54 per 1000 brass seems awfully high as well.

The_Shootist
April 16, 2006, 05:09 PM
I've shot about 1300 rds of Wolf through my WASR 10 in about a month and haven't had any problems. Its tough to tell if its clean or dirty ammo since 500 rounds per range trip would make any AK a little dirty :D . No complaints on accuracy, functionality or price for Wolf. Same with my Mak.

Would I shoot Wolf in my Glock or 1911 or other pistols.....nooooooo! I regard Wolf as cheap plinking ammo that gets the job done and meant to be fired out of rugged ex-combloc weapons.

MechAg94
April 16, 2006, 06:01 PM
Personally, I think the shortage is just a combination of higher demand in the US and the drying up of surplus ammo in the US.

>SHOCK<^>WAVE<
April 16, 2006, 06:40 PM
I recall a similiar shortage back in 94-95ish.:uhoh:

tulsamal
April 16, 2006, 07:28 PM
I won't swear to it, but I don't think 5.45X39 is .220 Russian. The price of $54 per 1000 brass seems awfully high as well.

Yeah, it's not the same thing at all. .220 Russian is what you use as a base case to make .22 or 6mm PPC. You could always use boxer primed 7.62x39 cases to make brass. That isn't the problem. The problem is the bullets. That caliber doesn't use "standard" .224" bullets. They are smaller. Until you can find a source for bulk bullets in the right diameter, nothing else much matters. And that's why none of the majors offer reloading dies for the caliber either. (That I've ever seen anyway.)

I would _really_ like to see the round get "Americanized." Maybe a CZ bolt action could be chambered for it. Lee releases dies. Remington and Sierra start selling bulk bullets. Starline releases brass. Then it could all be done!

Gregg

PvtPyle
April 16, 2006, 11:14 PM
I have been talking to a few guys working with the Iraqi Army since the word of Wolf going to them came out. All of them say they are not getting any Wolf. It is either Chinese or Easter Eurpoean ammo, not Russian. So when SHOT came around, I ask the Wolf rep about this. They hemmed and hawed about it. When I called them on the carpet flat out that it was a marketing and sales method (drive up the demand and price so it flies off their shelves when it gets here) one of them looked at me and said, "You dont want product sitting on your shelves do you?" I said that was a crappy way to do business, but they did not deny that this was what they were doing.

Maybe thats why they wont open us up as a distributor even though we keep trying to throw large sums of money at them.

Mizzle187
April 17, 2006, 11:06 AM
I understand not running Wolf in certain 1911 but not in a Glock? Arent Glocks supposed to be able to handle most everything resonable thrown at them? I know my XD45 loves the stuff and shows no negative affects. Its actually quit scary how accurate it hasd been with the Wolf. People hate it or love it. Most of the hate is from bad rumors though.

Daemon688
April 17, 2006, 11:13 AM
My own personal experience from wolf. It was dirty enough to get my firing pin to gum up causing it to double. Doesn't really bother me though. I still have atleast 4000 rounds of the stuff in my house.

seeker_two
April 17, 2006, 12:10 PM
1. If this is supposed to be part of a de-facto "Assault Weapons Ban", why aren't supplies of .223 or .308 drying up? :scrutiny:

2. It may be smart to alternate your ammo purchases b/t the "cheaper" steel-cased ammo & reloadable brass-cased ammo. Just in case... :uhoh:

3. With as many 5.45x39 rifles in country, some smart entrepreneur will market the bullets needed. And 7.62x39 bullets can be found easily. Just look for .311-312 bullets for the .303Brit or 7.65Argentine Mauser.

4. As long as you reload, you'll never be short of ammo for long... :D

V4Vendetta
April 17, 2006, 01:23 PM
I can still get 40 rounds of 7.62x39 Winchester ammo for $19.00 at Walmart.

Fu-man Shoe
April 17, 2006, 07:07 PM
Those are nice brass reloadable cases you're getting there at Wally World,
but $20 for 40 rounds isn't really cheap; but I guess I'm just lamenting the
long gone heyday of $0.08 steel case Wolf ammo.

jagdpanzer347
April 17, 2006, 07:28 PM
AIM's website shows Brown Bear 7.62x39 coming in late April, early May. Sixty-five bucks per 500. Not a super price, but not bad considering the current market.
-jagdpanzer

RangerHAAF
April 18, 2006, 09:35 AM
Here is a link to Gun Broker, they have some for sale.

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/Browse.asp?Cat=3017&Timeframe=0&Sort=0&Page=2&Items=50

beerslurpy
April 18, 2006, 10:04 AM
Wolf is still below 10 cents a round for me. 404 shortage not found.

Nail Shooter
April 18, 2006, 01:15 PM
By: seeker_two
Senior Member

1. If this is supposed to be part of a de-facto "Assault Weapons Ban", why aren't supplies of .223 or .308 drying up?
*******************************************************

Well the .223 SURE HAS dried up here in MI--it actually disappeared first in the popular WWB and Federal brands. I've seen maybe one case in past 6 or 8 months at the gun shows. Used to be pallet lots of several different brands at the shows. 7.62 x 39 is non-existent too.

NS

jagdpanzer347
April 18, 2006, 02:20 PM
I agree with Nailshooter, .223l5.56 has been alot harder to find lately. Fortunately, my local BassPro has been stocking Winchester Q3131 lately and I have been buying as much as I can. Probably will pick up some surplus Gautemalan from AIM as well.
-jagdpanzer

Brass Fetcher
April 19, 2006, 07:46 PM
What I'm saying is that 5.45x39mm is hard to find right now. Whether it's a de facto ban or not (on the rifles that shoot 5.45x39mm ammunition) depends on what the cause is for the shortage. If there is ammo 'waiting at the port' and some petty tyrant is stopping its distribution, then it is a ban. If the ammo is being used elsewhere in the world (or any other reason), then I would see this as a great demonstration of why it is unwise not to have some extra ammunition available for your guns.

I am not sure that many people would care about the unavailability of a caliber that they don't own. Joe Hunter most definately would not - the 5.45mm packs about the same juice as a .223rem, which is considerably easier to come by.

Tony Williams
April 20, 2006, 02:44 AM
You could always use boxer primed 7.62x39 cases to make brass.
The 5.45x39 case is narrower overall than the 7.62x39: body diameter is 10.5 mm compared with 11.2 mm.

As a matter of interest - what nationality is Wolf Ammo? I know that they buy in stuff from all over, but where are they based? Their website gives a US address but it isn't clear whether that's their HQ or just the US distributor.

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website (http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk) and discussion forum (http://forums.delphiforums.com/autogun/messages/)

GW
April 20, 2006, 03:28 AM
Surplus 308 is about gone
Surplus 223 is pretty tight as well
Guatemalan battle packs are all I can find.
$10/box of 7.62x39 is scary but if you look at Guns magzine they have an article on ammo prices going up
Metals (copper, lead zinc) are all climbing in price and they will be passing on the costs to us
Look out Wideners...

Diomed
April 20, 2006, 03:29 AM
As a matter of interest - what nationality is Wolf Ammo? I know that they buy in stuff from all over, but where are they based? Their website gives a US address but it isn't clear whether that's their HQ or just the US distributor.

I've always heard them referred to as a Russian company, by folks who know more about the ammo business than I ever will. If they aren't, they've done a heck of a job getting people to think they are!

ugaarguy
April 20, 2006, 03:52 AM
Ok, I cant find the article now, but Wolf steel case is Russian. They also recently switched from green laquer to clear polymer coating to adress the action gumming issue. Further they've also recently aquired distribution for brass cased, boxer primed ammo from a Balkan manufacturer; this is the new "Wolf Gold" ammo thats being advertised. The article was by David M. Fortier; I'm sure someone will be along shortly with better info.

If you enjoyed reading about "Wolf ammo - is this the 'ammo ban' on the AK-series?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!