Best Caliber for 500+ yards?


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SolaScriptura139
April 17, 2006, 01:58 PM
I'm looking to get into longer range rifle shooting in the future, and I've been looking a lot at browning rifles. But I'm willing to buy any rifle for the job. What is the best caliber for 500-800 yard shooting?

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MDG1976
April 17, 2006, 02:05 PM
Start with the .308 Win. 338 Lapua or .50 BMG would be better.

rockstar.esq
April 17, 2006, 02:32 PM
Well, I guess it comes down to how much challenge you want. A .308 Winchester can and will perform admirably however it has a max range of about 1000yds. The 50BMG makes 500 yard shots much easier to make due to the flatter trajectory and heavier projectile. The .338 Lapua magnum has made it's presence felt in the long range market by being smaller and lighter than the .50BMG without giving much up performance up to 1500yds.

I have no idea how much shooting you intend to do. Not to mention how often you'll encounter an area with a safe downrange out to 800+yds. I shoot out in an open prarie where I have visibility for over 3/4 mile. Personally I'd second the recommendation for a .308 Winchester. Partly because you'll notice that this caliber is common in all "Long range Tactical" rifles aside from the purpose built 50BMG's. If you handload, I'd also mention that you should consider the 30-06 as this noble cartridge has .308 Win performance in standard off the shelf trim however it can be handloaded to perform on a .300 Win Mag level

Zak Smith
April 17, 2006, 03:24 PM
Long-range shooting requires a combination of:

* appropriate caliber (bullet and vleocity)
* accurate (consistent) ammunition
* accurate (consistent) rifle + sights (optics or irons)
* homework (for drop and wind values)
* shooter skill, to execute the shot and judge wind

If we can assume rifle and ammo accuracy are sufficient, and the shooter has correct "drop" data for the distances, it comes down to shooter skill, both in executing the shot and judging wind. Wind is really the crux of long-range shooting, at least to 800-1000 yards.

Because of this, I recommend a "decent" rifle and scope combination, and a caliber which is neither expensive nor unpleasant to shoot. This allows the shooter to develop his skills. I believe every LR shooter should have a 308, because it allows a high volume of practice, and it can "make it to" 1000 yards.

After a year of shooting with the 308, re-evaluate what you want to accomplish, in what forums, with LR shooting, and make a decision then about what better LR cartridge to go to next.

There are a lot of good LR cartridges, and the common thread is the ability to shoot high BC bullets (0.600 or higher) at 2850-2900 fps or higher. Some of them include 6XC, 243WIN with heavy bullets, 6.5-284, 260REM, 6-5.08AI, 7RM, 338 Lapua, 408 Cheytac, and 50BMG. The latter three are very expensive to shoot, but do perform well at ultra long range.

SolaScriptura139
April 17, 2006, 09:52 PM
7RM, is that 7mm Rem. Mag? Cause I already have a Savage III in 7mm Rem. Mag. If that is a good rifle for the job, I can just keep what I have. Something you would recommend?

Zak Smith
April 17, 2006, 09:56 PM
Yes. 7mm Rem Mag is an excellent long range cartridge, because it can shoot 0.600+ BC bullets at 2950+.. Most guys I shot who use it for out to 1000 yards shoot the 168gr Berger VLD at about 2950-3000fps, using powders like H1000, H4831, or, I think, RL-22 (?).

If you already have a rifle that shoots 1/2 - 3/4 MOA at 100 yards, and an appropriate scope (ie, external elevation adjustment knobs), then you can use that. I would recommend making some changes to reduce the recoil so you can shoot it more with less fatigue and not develop a flinch. A muzzle brake and a good stock and/or pad do wonders.

(I didn't mention 300WM.. it is too a good long range cartridge, but 7RM is better due to bullet/BC selection.)

-z

SolaScriptura139
April 17, 2006, 10:10 PM
Ok, I may have to get a better scope though, came with the Savage (Wal-Mart special). Someone recommended Hornady Heavy mags to shoot, you concur? Thanks for the help, by the way.

Zak Smith
April 17, 2006, 10:26 PM
Reload using a Berger or Sierra match bullet heavier than 160gr.

NORM
April 17, 2006, 10:42 PM
http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek064.html

Zak Smith
April 17, 2006, 11:25 PM
7 WSM should be able to "almost" meet 7RM ballistics, depending on the particular barrels under comparison. It's only down a few water grains capacity.

Geno
April 17, 2006, 11:32 PM
"The One Mile Shot".

I believe he used a 26 caliber in a 284 cartridge.

I placed a thread here sometime back about this video. Do a search for it.

Good luck,

Doc2005

silicon wolverine
April 18, 2006, 12:10 AM
You cant dsicount bigger magnums like the .375H&H or .416 rigby or .416 dakota. I had a .416 Dakota when i was younger and made regular 750 yard shots with 400 Gr bullets. Shooting that far requires ALOT of practice and ammo expenditure. I shoot my MN91/30 at 600 yards regularly just to keep in practice shooting that far.

SW

rangerruck
April 18, 2006, 12:20 AM
well most of the comp shooters are winning with the 6mm br or ppc. that is a specialty round. Also very expensiverifles. if you wanna go long range with a stock offering, i would go cz 550 in 6.5 swede. This is an excellent long range round, that just doesn't wanna move in the wind. plus you can get plenty of stock or milsurp rounds out there, and there are even more hadnload stuff out there than you can shake a stick at. If you wanna go out to 1000 yds, look for a 6.5 /284. same big bullets, with a huge case.

rangerruck
April 18, 2006, 12:43 AM
check this site as well: http://www.6mmbr.com/index.html

beerslurpy
April 18, 2006, 01:12 AM
I second Zak's (better informed than mine) notion of the 7mm rem mag. It is an outstanding cartridge. Super high BCs, high velocities, flat shooting out to 400, predictable and slow-falling out farther.

Below 50 bmg, there really arent any commonly available cartrdiges that come close IMO. The bullet selection alone is a huge selling point.

My 7mm is a tikka with a cheap-ass leuopold scope (excellent quality, but has a lame hunting recitcle and only goes up to 9x). I should upgrade the glass and shoot it more often, but getting to a 200+ yard range in my current living situation is difficult. It makes ragged holes all day long at 100 yards, which is kind of boring.

Lancer
April 18, 2006, 04:16 AM
http://www.outdoormarksman.com/images/products/92450.jpg

.30-06 168 grain Sierra Match King BTHP

Onmilo
April 18, 2006, 07:27 AM
.300 Winchester Magnum is hard to beat for extreme range if you can tolerate the recoil.
The .300 H%H Magnum is a close second and a bit milder but getting harder and harder to find because the new .30/06 cartridge designs have made it all but obsolete.

.30/06 would be my choice if you want a long range rifle with acceptable level of long string recoil.
The .270 Winchester could be my second choice but I feel that you will not realize the level of precision groupability with this cartridge as you will find in the .30/06.

Jim Watson
April 18, 2006, 08:11 AM
500 yards really isn't very far with modern barrels and bullets and you don't need a magnum or monster magnum.
I tried to make a Long Range rifle out of a .223. Not a complete success, but it is fine at 600 and probably ok at 800, though not 1000.

That 7mm RM will do fine, IF you handload for it with high BC bullets and IF you don't mind getting kicked.

If you DON'T handload, the only rifle you can readily buy factory target ammunition for is .308. Skip the 168 and buy 175 gr Black Hills or Federal.

A Long Range shooting friend of mine took some hunters and casual shooters out on the 600 yard range with their medium to nice sporting rifles and common factory hunting loads. They did great at 200 yards and fair at 300 but after that they kind of fell apart. Their rifles, ammo, scopes and experience were not up to the job.

USSR
April 18, 2006, 08:45 AM
I believe every LR shooter should have a 308...

Ditto. What you get after you have your .308 is up to you. Personally, I went with a 6.5x55 and the venerable .30-06.

Don

SolaScriptura139
April 18, 2006, 10:23 AM
Winchester currently offers 175 grain Super-X Powerpoints, and Remington offers 175 grain Express Core-Lokt PSP rounds. I do not currently reload, would any of these be considered worthy of the task? Or do you recommend a different factory load?

Freddymac
April 18, 2006, 10:38 AM
D L sports makes a wicked long range rifle in 300RUM. It may be a bit much for your needs, though. Have you thought about the 300 win mag. The Army and Marines markmanship teams use the 300 win in Rem 700 actoins.

just a thought

Fred

Jim Watson
April 18, 2006, 11:45 AM
The Remington 150 gr Accu-tip or Winchester 150 gr Ballistic Silvertip will shoot a good deal flatter and closer to the wind than the 175s.

Assuming they give equal or better accuracy on target.

If the 175s are more accurate or cheaper or easier to find, etc. get some of both (all) and let the rifle tell you which it likes. They will not do any better than a .308 and with more kick, but since you already have the rifle, best to get your feet wet and find out if you like long range or even Long Range before spending a lot of money.

stealthgoat
April 18, 2006, 12:09 PM
I am certainly not an expert (just started shooting NRA Highpower) but I think barrel life is a factor, too.

I have heard of 300winmag and 6.5x284 barrels shooting out in a little over 1k rounds using hot loads. I expect to get maybe 5k rounds out of a good 308 barrel, at least 3.5k rounds out of my 6.5x08 (260), and I havn't shot out a 6.5x55 swede so not sure how long it will last but a long time.

My opinion it's not just the expense of a rebarrel, but the time the action is off at your 'smith and then developing new load for that new barrel.

MachIVshooter
April 18, 2006, 09:32 PM
As has been said, any cartridge that will puch high BC bullets at ~ 3000 FPS is a capable LR round. This generally limits calibers to 6.5mm, 7mm, .308, .338 and .50 with a couple exceptions. Reason being, nearly all available projectiles in .224, .244, .257, .277, .323, .358, .375, .416 and .458 caliber don't have B.C.'s higher than .500. Some custom bullet makers have begun to change this recently, but most LR shooters are sticking to the traditional stuff because it is tried and true. I would have to say that for 500-800 yard bench shooting, the 7mm RM, 7mm RUM, .308 win., .30-06, .300 WM and .300 RUM are probably going to be the best bet. If I had to choose one, it would be the .300 RUM. Reason being, it will push the heaviest .30 cal projectiles a good clip faster than the .300 WM and a bit faster still than the .300 Weatherby. But our government has used the 7mm RM, .308, .30-06 and .300 WM for many years as sniper and counter sniper weapons with good success. European military snipers have been using the .338 Lapua for a long time as well, but it is more punishment and more cost than is necesary for >800 yds.

Onmilo
April 19, 2006, 05:07 PM
.300 Winchester Magnums barrels do indeed burn out their precision accuracy potential faster than .300 H&H, .30/06, and .308 rifles but the rate is more like 4000 rounds as opposed to 7000 rounds for the other .30 calibers.

7mm Magnums, pick one, Rem. RUM, or Weatherby, they all burn their precision accuracy potential at about the 2800 round mark.

rifleman93
September 28, 2006, 05:02 PM
I know this is a bit late, however you may still read this. A really good round that nobody mentioned, but I will is the STWs. I have a friend who loves both his 6.5 STW and his 7 STW. These are great long range guns, but you should get into reloading for sure!!

Davo
September 28, 2006, 05:40 PM
For a beginner, its all about the .308! This round shines at 500-800 yards, and is inexpensive and dosent kick much. There are several target and tactical rifles in this chambering for under 1000 bucks, many under 700 bucks. Reloading will be easy with this round, its got good case life and there are ALOT of match rounds made for it.
.223 is a bit light for these ranges... and the .300 drives up price and recoil.
JUST GO .308...you will never regret it. It is a good all around long range round!

SolaScriptura139
September 28, 2006, 05:42 PM
Well, since this thread started, I have decided to stay with my 7mm Rem Mag, as I will be learning how to reload rifle ammo for it. I figure the 7mm will be enough for me as a starting point. The recoil might be much, but I can get shoulder padding to allow me more range time.

mustanger98
September 28, 2006, 10:10 PM
Well, while I agree that .30-06 and .308/7.62mm are recognized long range cartridges among others equal to the task, everyone seems to forget about the .45-70gov't being the original long range cartridge. It's all cool in it's own way, but if I'm picking one to shoot 500+yds, aside from .30-06 or .303British, I'll pick .45-70gov't.

10-Ring
September 28, 2006, 11:15 PM
300 win mag :D That would be my choice :D

mustanger98
September 28, 2006, 11:34 PM
Regarding 10ring's .300WinMag, I have seen a dedicated sniper rifle in this chambering. But it was ten years ago and that rifle was only two of that particular build at that point. I'm wishing I had some particulars on it now.

Stiletto Null
September 28, 2006, 11:44 PM
.260 Remington? (6.5-08; I hear that it is essentially identical, ballistically, to 6.5x55 Swedish.)

mustanger98
September 29, 2006, 12:02 AM
My understanding about 6.5x55Swede is it's good to 500yds, but it has a higher trajectory than .30-06 so it drops off fast after 600yds. This is according to a Remington ballistic/trajectory table I looked at a few years ago. I don't know too much about .260 though.

trainwreck100
September 29, 2006, 12:02 AM
I'd say either a .30-06 Sprg. or a .300 Mag. They're easier to find and a lot more power than a .308. The best I've ever seen was a .264 Win. Mag, but that's expensive and hard to come by.

Greg

Loanshark
September 29, 2006, 05:08 PM
Are the 30-06 and .300 mag really that much easier than .308 to find???

I don't remember seeing those while I was shopping for milsurp ammo, so that's one instance where .308 would be much easier to find.

If you think they are better rounds that's one thing but I don't think availability is a good reason not to choose .308.

Spencer
September 29, 2006, 05:14 PM
.300 Remington Ultra Mag, Swift Scirocco

CanonNinja
September 29, 2006, 05:19 PM
Minus the cost of tools and equipment, my match .50BMG loads and heavy weight ball and black-tip AP rounds are running about half the cost of some factory match loads. Definately cheaper than something like .416 Remington Mag. About $2.75 for Hornady AMAX and about $2 for sized/trimmed pull-down GI brass with brand-new M33 Ball projos (yes, brand new and not pulled). Accuracy is there, but I haven't tested in a "match" rifle for ultimate accuracy (plus I flinch BAD with my rifle.. hey it hurts like hell :p)

Geno
November 21, 2006, 06:55 PM
The answer is not so simple. In fact, most rounds can be effective to extended ranges. The fact is weight, bal. coef. and velocity are prime factors. Any caliber, moderate weight, with high bal. coef. and high vel. can hold energy to 500 yards. But for what game? It has been argued for many years now that 1,200 FPE is needed to harvest a whitetail at any distance. If true, then .300 Win. with a 180 Gr. boattail can hold its own to around 600 yards. The lowly .223 Rem could not surpass maybe 100 yards. Now, talk the .375 H&H Mag, the .416 Rem. Mag, etc., and they can hold to extreme distances, but the recoil would make one think twice when considering extreme accuracy needed for 500 yards.

For me, for hunting deer, I prefer the 7mm Rem Mag with 150 Gn. and the .300 Win Mag. with a 165 Gn. But, that's just me. However, the best-of-the-best I would have to vote .257 Wea. Mag and .300 Wea. Mag. Each has a max-point-blank range of approxiamtely 380 yards, which means aim center-of-body and your assured a hit/kill to this range with no adjustment for trajectory when zeroed for 300 yards, and not to vary +/- 4 inches from the zero.

Doc2005

rangerruck
November 21, 2006, 11:31 PM
i am assuming paper puntching here. then go with the 6.5 round. the swede and grendel are great to 600 yds, and the 6.5 /284 is smokin on the 1000 yd line lately. go here. http://www.6mmbr.com/index.html

SUBMOAS
November 22, 2006, 03:02 AM
6.5x284 enough said.........

X-Rap
November 22, 2006, 10:12 AM
What are the group sizes that one could expect at say 500, 800, 1000. 5 shot that is. Just wondering what a person should expect.

SUBMOAS
November 22, 2006, 12:04 PM
That all depends on the shooter..... Can the shooter dope the wind, read the mirage not pull the trigger. There are TONS of shooters that want to shoot that distance but only a handfull that take the time and practice it.

Just remember the MOA rule. If you shoot 1"@100 yards. You should be able to shoot 5" at 500 yards.

mnrivrat
November 22, 2006, 01:46 PM
Well, since this thread started, I have decided to stay with my 7mm Rem Mag,

Good Choice !

Spencer
November 22, 2006, 01:51 PM
7mm Remington Magnum

EdLaver
November 22, 2006, 02:08 PM
I like .308 winchester, 6.5 grendel:evil: , and .338 Lapua. If I had to pick out of the 3...I would go with the 6.5 grendel The Grendel literally has lesser felt recoil, easy follow-up and equal/greater power than the .308.

USSR
November 22, 2006, 02:16 PM
Just remember the MOA rule. If you shoot 1"@100 yards. You should be able to shoot 5" at 500 yards.

Actually, it's more like: Just because you can shoot 1" @ 100 yards, don't expect to shoot 5" at 500 yards. Because of environmental considerations, the degree of accuracy at long range is not linear.

Don

sumpnz
November 22, 2006, 03:05 PM
My understanding about 6.5x55Swede is it's good to 500yds, but it has a higher trajectory than .30-06 so it drops off fast after 600yds. This is according to a Remington ballistic/trajectory table I looked at a few years ago. I don't know too much about .260 though.Remington is almost certainly using their neutered factory loads for that data. Typical factory loads from American ammo companies in 6.5x55 throw a 140gr bullet at 2550fps. I can handload 140gr Barnes XLC's to 2850fps in my CZ550 with a slightly over max charge of RL-19. Could probably get it going faster with Varget due to its higher density (RL-19 essentially fills the case), but I'm not sure that would be entirely safe. Might be, but I cannot be certain without doing some research.

Bottom line is that with good handloads (think Lapua Scenars, Sierra Matchkings, etc) the 6.5x55 should be at least as good as the .30-06 for long range paper punching.

The big advantage the 6.5x55 has over the .260Rem is that it can handle the heavy bullets much better due to not only higher case capacity but also that such rifles usually have a longer throat allowing those long bullets to be seated out farther, and Swede rifles usually have a faster twist barrel.
Any caliber, moderate weight, with high bal. coef. and high vel. can hold energy to 500 yards. But for what game? It has been argued for many years now that 1,200 FPE is needed to harvest a whitetail at any distance.I'm pretty sure the OP was talking about paper punching rather than hunting. Regardless, I'd usually hear 900ft-lbs for deer and 1200ft-lbs for elk as the recommended minimum impact energies. More is better of course. However it is the rare hunter that is justified at taking any shot even at, nevermind over, 400 yards anyway.

A co-worker's son recently shot a beautiful mule deer buck at ~350 yards thought the neck. Bang-flop. But because it was nearly dark when he took the shot, he wasn't experienced (it was his first, maybe second buck) and his dad wasn't with him he didn't find it for a day and a half. By then about all he could salvage was the antlers (night time lows were in the 60's). Had he gotten himself within 100 yards before shooting he'd have probably been able to find it right away. The rifle/ammo was clearly adequate, as were his shooting skills, but his other hunting skills were obviously lacking for him to take such a shot. My only point here is that just about any centerfire rifle in good condition chambered for .243 Win or bigger/more powerful will have the energy, trajectory and accuracy to be suitable for killing a deer size animal to beyond the sensible limits of the ethical hunter. I know I'm probably preaching to the choir here though.

Mike Sr.
November 22, 2006, 03:23 PM
I shoot and my son hunts -regularly- with a standard Rem/700/Laminate stock/LH 300 UM. Just this last week I saw him shoot thru a deer at 400 yards. The next day I saw him shoot and hit a dark green bush -about the size of a tire and wheel on a big rig- silhouetted by Brown sage grass...he put the cross hairs with a sliver of daylight over the bush....at 1,010 yards! Factory ammo!!!!!!!!:what: :what:

What an awesome caliber; now I'm looking for a Sendero in the caliber!


STAINLESS OF COURSE...

270Win
November 22, 2006, 03:58 PM
500-750 or so was no chore for my .270. Normally, I would recommend .308 or .30-06 for their better wind-bucking abilities and the MUCH higher range of bullets available.

But since you've decided to go 7mmMag, more power to you! Let us know the results as they come in.

bannad1
November 22, 2006, 05:36 PM
With the exception of firing the old Rem 740 30-06 4 times a year (three to sight it in, one to kill a deer), I have very limited experience with high powered rifles, but have recently developed an itch like this original poster. What are your thoughts on a 270 or 300 WSM?

Zak Smith
November 22, 2006, 05:53 PM
I shot a 4-inch 5-shot group at 940 yards with a .338 Lapua today. I probably could have done the same with my .260REM, or maybe even my 308. It all depends on the conditions.

mnrivrat
November 22, 2006, 06:04 PM
With the exception of firing the old Rem 740 30-06 4 times a year (three to sight it in, one to kill a deer), I have very limited experience with high powered rifles, but have recently developed an itch like this original poster. What are your thoughts on a 270 or 300 WSM?


Franky -faced with those choices I would stick to the 30-06. Although I wouldn't stick with the 740 to deliver the 500 yd + accuracy .

redneck2
November 22, 2006, 06:32 PM
It's kind of amazing that so many posters would still give caliber recommendations even though you said you're going to use your 7mm mag. A 7mm mag really doesn't kick that much, at least not in my rifle. When you're shooting a lot, weight is your friend. If your rifle is a sporter weight, I'd add some lead.

Anyway.....you never really got an adequate answer to your question IMO. Now, your original post said 500-800. 500 is a whole lot different than even 800, and a world away from 1,000 if you're interested in that.

To answer the question about glass......I have a friend that I hunt with that took a prarie dog at 1,018 yards with a .308. He used a 15x scope. At that range, the crosshairs totally covered the dog. He had to try to center the dog behind the crosshhairs and touch off. Stuff gets real small when the distance gets over 1/2 mile.

My 1,000 yard rig is a 700 Sendero 7mm Mag with a Burris 8x32 scope on .020 offset mounts. I can see song birds on the fence across our lake, which is about 550-600 yards across.

At 1,000, you most likely won't get enough adjustment on your scope to account for bullet drop unless you have offset mounts. IIRC, even with the high B.C. bullets in the 7 mag, you still have to be something like 22" high at 100 yards.

My load is WW cases, Fed Mag Match Primers, Hornady 162 grain A-Max, RL-22. Very high B.C. I did a LOT of looking and asking before I started on my project. The 7 gave the best combination of performance vs cost in a factory round IMO. The .308 will work, but the 7 mm works better once things go past maybe 800-900 and targets get small. Go to one of the sites that has a ballistics calculator, plug in the numbers, and you'll see what I mean.

If you want real answers from real shooters, try Benchrest Central 1,000 yard and Factory Rifle forums. There are a lot of calibers that will work to 500. Starts thinning the further you stretch. At 1,000 it gets real thin.

HTH

X-Rap
November 22, 2006, 11:48 PM
Thanks for the responce on group size. I get the moa what I am qurious about is how many shooters really are hitting moa or less when they are recomending rounds that would seem to fall a little short for 1000 m the 308 &30-06 being two. I know they have a long history at camp perry and all but do the M1As, 03s and garands really shot 10" groups at 1000m or yds with consistancy.

Zak Smith
November 22, 2006, 11:57 PM
Both of those cartridges can shoot better than MOA at 1000 yards-- the trick is the shooter has to judge wind fractionally better than some of the magnums.

Do not confuse the capabilities of the cartridge with the accuracy and appropriateness of any or every rifle in that caliber.

Nematocyst
November 22, 2006, 11:59 PM
F-16. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-16_Fighting_Falcon)

mnrivrat
November 23, 2006, 01:21 AM
If you want real answers from real shooters,

:uhoh: Now that's not playing very nice ! I think a lot of folks still want to express their opinion - that's not a lot different than stretching the 500 to 800 yd question into a 1000 yd answer .

You make a good point with optics in that they need to be well thought out on firearms that one wants to shoot at the longer ranges. The two long range rifles I have had in the past were a custom heavy barrel in 30-06 with a fixed 12 X Davis Target scope with external adj. The other a 300 Win Mag with a 12X - 24X mil dot system. I am not a competor, but had done a good deal of long range shooting at praire dogs with that 30-06. It shot slightly under 1/2 moa groups.

A rifle that could come anywhere near shooting praire dogs with any consistancy at 1,000 yds would have to shoot 1/4 moa groups or less and even then hits at that range seems to me would be more luck than anything on a praire dog.

redneck2
November 23, 2006, 12:59 PM
A rifle that could come anywhere near shooting praire dogs with any consistancy at 1,000 yds would have to shoot 1/4 moa groups or less and even then hits at that range seems to me would be more luck than anything on a praire dog.
Kind of a combination of luck and skill, mixed in with multiple tries. It's not a "one shot, one kill" proposition.

I was just trying to point out that 500 yards is a different program from 800 and up. Marines qualify with iron sighted M-16's at 500 meters IIRC

I saw a write up in a gun rag a few ago about the first heavy high B.C. bullets for .223's. The guy was putting 3 shots into about 6" at 600 yards.

JeepDriver
November 23, 2006, 01:21 PM
Start off with a .308

There are plenty of factory loads (federal/black hills) out there that will handle 500 yards w/o a ploblem.

Once to step out to 1000 yards I'd give the .338 Lapua magnum a serious look. Only if that's going to be a regular distianceto shoot at though.

With the 338 you're going to have to either pay serious coin for facoty loads from Black Hills. Or start doing serious work at the loading bench and range to find the load that works for your rifle, which you're either going to have custom built or pay big money for from only a couple manufacturers.

MCgunner
November 23, 2006, 01:44 PM
hmm, I guess the 7mm STW is out of favor now days? It use to be THE hot caliber for long range shooting. My, how fickle rifle nuts are, eh?:rolleyes:

BTW, weight has nothing to do with the 50 bmg's exterior ballistics performance. The incredible ballistic coefficients do, however, and the weight/momentum and energy of that bullet is devastating in terminal ballistics/penetration of hard targets.

USSR
November 23, 2006, 02:18 PM
Both of those cartridges can shoot better than MOA at 1000 yards-- the trick is the shooter has to judge wind fractionally better than some of the magnums.

Do not confuse the capabilities of the cartridge with the accuracy and appropriateness of any or every rifle in that caliber.

+1. I shot my .30-06 Tactical Rifle all this year in 1,000 yard F Class matches, and did not feel handicapped in the slightest. When I didn't do well, it was the result of my not reading the wind correctly. IMHO, all you really need cartridge-wise for LR shooting is a cartridge for which: quality high BC bullets are available, quality brass (Lapua, Norma, etc.) is available, and the cartridge selected must have enough case capacity to drive your bullets at 2900+fps.

Don

adobewalls
November 23, 2006, 03:08 PM
Just some thoughts from a recreational shooter with both the 7mmRM and .308. Real shooting starts at 300 and just gets more fun the longer you go. Other posters are correct when recommending the .308 as a starter as it is mild in recoil and you can find commercially loaded match grade ammunition.

However, you are starting with the 7mmRM, which I can find no fault with as thats the first rifle I shot over 250 yards. I didn't catch what type or length of barrel you are shooting, but it/you should be able to shoot right at about an 1" to 1-1/2" at 100 yards to start with. I recommend looking for a premuim hunting bullet based off the Nosler Ballistic Tip, Combined Technology Ballistic Tip, Hornaday A-max or Sierra Game King in starting no less than 150 grns and up. Find the brand your rifle likes best at a 100 yds. The 7mmRM is hot enough that if you are shooting a boat-tail bullet of 150 grns. or better it will do just fine at 500.

Second, if you are not buying a rifle, put money into a good scope, rings and mounts. Buy the heavy duty grade as you want a very solid mount for the scope. Now the type and power of scope, and whether its adjustable or not are all personal preferences - my only rule on this is, "You can't hit it, if you can't see it". If you are just starting out, most people recommend a scope of capable of at least 10x and no more than 20x. A good scope will probably cost as much as a new rifle, especially when adding the heavy duty mounts and rings.

Next start reading books and visiting web sites for long range hunting and tactical shooting. This will help you understand the cheap tricks you can do without spending big money on gunsmithing to cut your 100 yard group sizes in half. If you have a sporter wieght barrel, you may have to be patient and restrict yourself to slow fire, but a sporter can be as accurate as varmint/heavy profile barrel if you take your time.

Again, other posters have given good advice, after about a year of shooting, you should have shot the barrel out of that 7mmRM. That means you have a great excuse to now send it off to a reputable gunsmith and get it really tricked out for the long range game. Also in that year, you will begin to understand that the real challenge of the long range game is not so much the equipment as it is developing your ability to read the environmental conditions, develop good form and establish your own mental disciplione and control necessary to consistently hit at the longer ranges. After a year, it will also be about time to start getting into reloading, as that is what will push your "new" custom rifle to its full potential.

X-Rap
November 28, 2006, 11:29 AM
I've got a 338-378, what has been the experiance with this round from others on the forum. I have a 25-06 built on argent. mauser that shoots moa at 500 but would like to keep pushing.

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