[amprecon]

I'm to the point now where I'm tired of trying to convince people what the 2nd Amendment is all about and that guns are good.

I'm tired of worrying about the next anti-gun bill on the board that is being considered, loopholes to be closed, what kind of guns I can have, how much ammo they can hold and what they look like.

I have reached a point where I don't care anymore what they do. I don't care if they pass a law banning guns all together. I just wish they would hurry up and do it so the fight can start and it all be over with.

Win or lose, to die for a just cause is better to live under foot.

[Zak Smith]

It ain't gonna' happen that way.

-z

[Devonai]

We owe it to our way of life to continue to fight the antis in the by way of legislation. It is the second most sacred American creed to work within the government to achieve your goals. The first, of course, is to fight. However, we must avoid this at all costs. I too am frustrated but I can't betray the system until it has utterly and completely betrayed me.

[AnklePocket]

There's more good people out there than one might think. They're just too busy trying to squeeze out a living to get active. I may be wrong, but there may be some new leadership emerging from hidden corners all around the nation displacing self-serving legislators everywhere one at a time.

[Oleg Volk]

Seeing how many people do the budy-work of fighting the enemy in non-violent ways, I am sure we can muster a couple hundred folks nation-wide to pick up rifles. All those people who won't write, won't demonstrate, won't train others will certainly play infantry when the time comes. Pardon me if I am not counting on very many to be in the trenches when the need comes.

Do your part. If you must, ignore the laws which shouldn't be obeyed. But I suggest that you think of your rifle as the last resort, not something to use when you get sick of less stressful methods of trying to fight back.

[Standing Wolf]

The anti-Second Amendment bigots sincerely hope we'll tire of their incessant nibbling at the nation's civil rights. They know they can't abolish the Second Amendment outright, but trust they'll wear us down one "reasonable compromise" at a time.

[ahadams]

We've already given the antigun folks more heartburn than they ever expected, and we're just really getting started. Remember the true movers and shakers of the antigun movement are now all over 50 (of course some of us are getting close to that ourselves:rolleyes: ) but the reality is that the more we work to convert the generation just now coming along to our perspective the better chance we have of the whole "gun control" business being simply an odd quirk of the late 20th and early 21st century, from the perspective of history books a hundred years from now.

Don't get me wrong - this does NOT mean that we do not have to be ready to resist by all available means, should the situation become untenable, but rather that the situation is not yet that bad, and in the meantime we continue to wage war by other means, to reverse von Clauswitz's (sp?) quote....

[Jim March]

I'll be blunt.

If you're not mentally tough enough to fight now, in court, in the legislatures, in the court of public opinion, whatever...then you're not tough enough to fight with live ammo, and you probably won't under any circumstances.

Time to cowboy up...now, and possibly (worst case) later.

[rock jock]

Well said, Jim.

[amprecon]

Not mentally tough enough to fight now?

Mr. March, you do not know me well enough to insinuate that I am a coward. And if you did, coward would be the last word in your mind to describe me.

I've hemmed and hawed since I've realized there has been something to fight over. I've written congressman, senators, voted at every opportunity, even talked gun neutral people onto our side, which is satisfying.

But when you live in a state such as I did, in MD, and when you send polite and logical letters and receive a mass produced generic reply sent by one of their interns, it's very frustrating.

When you vote, time after time and the same or worse anti-gun people continue to get elected, it appears to become helpless.

This is why I moved to MT, it is nice to go into a gun store and walk out the same hour with your new gun.

I was overjoyed when Bush was elected, finally, I thought, all these stupid gun laws will finally disappear or at least new ones would be halted at least temporarily.

Yet we find that he will renew the "Assault Weapon" ban. This is very discouraging and I can't help but think that I would want an end to the problem.

From the current situation in your state of residence it appears that your the ones with the yellow streaks.

[CGofMP]

I have yet to have a 'difference of opinion' with anyone at THR, but when a pie comes flying over the top of your target and hits me.... well I'm gonna throw something sticky back.

How DARE you insinuate that California gun owners are yellow when it comes to guns or this fight. Because many of us Californians would love to turn ourselves into somehting else and leave this high-tech sewer does not mean that we are running from a fight we never participated in... On the contrary - the fact is we are exhausted. Worse yet many of us are demoralized by the perception that the 'All Powerful' [political gun organization] did little to help us (in my personal opinion) when we needed them the most...

Its about the detestable handgun and assault rifle laws that came into existence here and which are now being used as templates for other states... Many of us fought and fought and fought.. but guess what? We were, and continue to be outvoted in this granola state by the fruits nuts and flakes that populate it.

Does that make the rest of us yellow? Is it because we failed and the [organization] did not attempt a full court press in order to stop the insanity that our legislature foisted upon us? (They KNOW (or should have known) that as goes California eventually goes the rest of the country when it comes to many laws especially those having to do with social or gun issues!

I am sorry for the strident tone but you insult me and a lot of other good men who have busted our butts trying to keep things from happening here... while help from folks like you on the outside which may have turned the tide was witheld.

I saw a cartoon once.... 2 men in a canoe - one was bailing water like crazy and the other was saying how he was not going to help because the hole was on his partner's side of the boat.

A loss in California is a loss to all of us. Same with the current horse(play) in Illinois. If they lose there we all are going to feel the ripples... just as you are all feeling the ripples of CALIFORNIA senator Feinstein's AW ban. Which by the way looks like it will continue on thanks to Mr. Bush forgetting who his real friends are...

I'd love nothing better than to find a good paying job and move my family the he(ck) out of this cess-pool... but even if I was to get such a position in Idaho, MT, Wy, or any of the other gun-friendly states I'd certainly not turn my back on the reality that the COWARDS left here in California would need my help - if only to continue to protect my rights in my new home by aborting California law before it became national.

If anyone is a coward it is those who refuse to help their neighbors in time of need.

Speaking for myself ONLY.
Charles

California Fashions (http://www.memorableplaces.com/m1garand/yuppiepage.html)
http://www.memorableplaces.com/m1garand/fashionbelt.jpg

Guess how many of the companies below are Californian:

[Jim March]

Amprecon: you ran from a socialist dump, while I stay and fight like hell in one, and you call ME yellow?

You call me yellow because I'm still here, and gun laws are passing, when tons of other gunnies in California have fled?

Do you really believe what you're spewing, or have you cracked up and are just venting into your keyboard?

[Airwolf]

Amprecon,

A friendly word of advice. I understand your anger and frustration. When I get fed up with being nibbled to death by these :cuss: that would seek to control my life from cradle-to-grave I too have thoughts such as yours.

BUT, you need to pull back a little bit and realize that some of the people on this site bust their butts every day to stem the tide of socialist anti-gun legislation that threaten to sweep away honest law-abiding citizens as though we are defective for our beliefs and our possessions (guns).

Jim March in particular is one of those people that tirelessly devotes himself to this cause and I STRONGLY recommend you do a search on this board and thefiringline.com before uttering another word that you may later regret.

[AnklePocket]

It's very easy to get burned out in the fight for Liberty. The notion that may put the struggle into perspective is that it's easy to get burned out in the fight for Liberty. A steady, consistent effort over a long time (like kinda forever) is what's required. It often seems as though you're alone, but that's as far from the truth as you can get.

[Ol' Badger]

Sure Ban the Gun. I'll be for it if you can get everyone of them in North America and the Police have to give up theirs and the Celebs and so on. And then we can all hold hands and sing Cumbeya together!:mad:

[Kinsman]

as goes California eventually goes the rest of the country
Well, that is what a lot of folks say ....but it ain't necessarily so.
A loss in California is a loss to all of us.
True, BUT (and it's a big ol' but.....)
Sometimes ya gotta know when to fall back to a defensible position. Things are absolutely hopeless there in PRK. I suppose that if a few die-hards stay there then that is where the shooting will start....but I doubt it. You won't be able to get ammo.

[Oleg Volk]

Unless I am badly mistaken, no one offered any insults deliberately. If any were offered inadvertantly, by me or by anyone else, please remember that we have nothing to gain by attacking others here and let it slide.

[ReadyontheRight]

Back to the original post. One tactic we need to fight is that fewer and fewer people have experience with guns. These inexperienced people who have an unresonable fear of guns are the same folks who will pick up a gun, twirl it around, point it at your head and go "bang" because "that's what they do in the movies.".:uhoh: The grabbers count on continued urbanization to the point that our children won't know what they lost.

Take a neighbor or a friend out shooting. Make them recite the 4 rules. Teach your kids to shoot. Fight back whenever some neighborhood tries to close a local gun range. Join the NRA, GOA and JPFO.

[Henry Bowman]

Amen to Readyontheright.

[Carlos Cabeza]

NEVER GIVE UP !
Readyontheright is right about the urbanization of America. The only association that our children will have with guns is either Hollywierd, or what you and I teach them. I REFUSE to sacrifice my independence, liberty and freedom for the benefit of those who do not wish to contribute, but prefer to suck the life out of the hard working American.

[Pward]

How many of the people on this thread are registered voters and do you vote.
Do you just vote on sunny days or just when its convent, or do you vote every time there’s an election. Like it or not that the way you do it. That’s the way you make changes in this country. It’s been said that a lot of gun owners are not even registered
to vote, if you don’t vote you have no voice. It s hard to be heard when your mute,

[goon]

Mr. March I do respect your determination to fight an uphill battle.
In my mind, each man must decide for himself which course of action is best for him. With some, that means regrouping somewhere else, and then entrenching.
Charging uphill against the enemy is brave, and at times necessecary.
But, when push comes to shove, I would rather be the guy entrenched at the top of that hill with the Maxim than the guy charging up it.

[amprecon]

My apologies to anyone that I have offended. I do realize that we are all on the same team here.
However, Mr. March, I still regret your comments insinuating that I am a coward.

I left Maryland because I wanted to experience the open spaces and freedoms that Maryland didn't offer because of political fondling. I wanted to live in a place where the majority of people have the same thoughts and ideals that I do. I do not regret it, nor will I.

I am frustrated, no doubt. What frustrates me is that what is being attacked is a fundamental right of any living thing on this planet, self-defense. And it outrages me. To even consider such actions is treason not only against our country, but against mankind.

I just feel that the morons who are elected (or not) that think this way do not deserve the luxury to debate what should not even be a debate.

To be able to defend yourself is like being able to eat, breath, think, talk, live. These are normal actions of life and to talk about banning one of them is absurd.

It's as absurd as wanting to ban breathing because somebody has Halitosis. Or banning eating because some people become obese from it. It's absurd, yet we discuss it sincerely with them rather than laughing them into embarrassment.

I live in a gun friendly state, yet I am still angry about the current attitude regarding guns nationwide, running away from my problems? No, just regrouping where there's more support.

[Jim March]

I never called you a coward.

I implied that you didn't have the grit for a long, frostrating fight. To fight politically doesn't take "courage", it simply takes willpower.

Lots of people have the "courage" to defend themselves when a fight is in front of their face. Few have the "staying power" to last through a long political struggle and the same "staying power" is if anything MORE critical in all-out full military combat than "courage".

[Blain]

I agree, brother. Time to just get the inevitable revolution over with so our kids and grand children don't have to suffer through the same crap we did. I do believe the time is coming soon.

[ahadams]

Anybody ever have to deal with a runaway vehicle? Youu know, one that was facing uphill, only the parkingbrake gave way an it wasn't in gear so it started rolling backward (NFA '34) and then eventually started going faster (GCA '68) and faster (Brady) and faster ("AW" ban)...and when you finally get over behind the wheel you stand on the brake to slow it down and it does, but you've got to stop it and THEN get the engine going again, get it into gear and get it back up the hill. We've ALMOST got it stopped. IF we ALL stay on our congresscritters from now through October '04 we can actually stop the backward progress.

We'll have to work hard right through the Nov 04 elections, because you can bet that the left will have all of their money from both coasts focussed on getting every even vaguely pro-gun politician out of office. But we CAN do it - 2002 demonstrated that very clearly. If we still have at least as much control of the Congress and the Whitehouse after Nov 04 we will have stopped the runaway truck and can start rebuilding what we've lost. Folks you've got to realize that we are at the turning point NOW. Let's not have to tell our grand kids, "well we ended up giving up in 03, 'cause it just got too tough".

[HBK]

We definately need to stay the course. I get frustrated beyond belief and spend more and more time writing and calling my so called representatives about every issue important to me, including 2nd ammendment rights. It takes up more and more of my personal time, but it is worth it. You have to fight for what you believe in and never stop. I feel what you are saying though because it is exhausting, especially when you feel that you are losing, as I often do. Sometimes it feels like I'm throwing marbles at a battleship. Stay the course.

[hammer4nc]

Lot of food for thought in this thread...taking some time to digest it all, but here goes. First of all, the pro-gun community is comprised of people with widely different talents and temperments. Some can thrive while fighting the good (political) fight, while others, myself included, have come to realize that the emotional toll is just too high to contribute effectively in that venue. I empathize with amprecon's original statements of frustration.

I'd try to resist the temptation to let these differences cause anger among those who are really on the same side of the issue. Each of us has to choose our battles carefully, based on many personal factors. Some members have mentioned other helpful activities that can be undertaken.

The fact of "urbanization", best typified by California, and other gun-control states, has the deck stacked against us, and may be a losing fight in these regions in the short term. However, two points:

1) When liberal politicos from these urban regions try to pass bans on a national scale, they are largely unsuccessful (national AWB and Brady law notwithstanding). Someone said more liberals have been sacrificed on the altar of gun control than any other issue. Feinstein and Schumer can get re-elected in their liberal meccas, but maybe other national legislators will catch on and be more reluctant to hitch their wagons to this issue.

2) Following these local and state-level gun bans to their logical conclusion, namely utter failure in terms of public safety; massive non-compliance; enforcement costs, etc. Maybe short-term political setbacks on a regional level are necessary to provide practical first-hand evidence that the gun control theroy just doesn't work. I keep hoping.

Meanwhile, when things get heated up, try not to let it divide us.

[Partisan Ranger]

I get a bit frustrated too but I keep on fighting these fascist fools.

I write a lot on politics and on guns and try to help the cause that way (and make some extra money!). And I plan to make sure my 7 year-old son is fully versed in the right to bear arms. He's already gotten some of it from me, but I haven't had him out shooting yet.

If you ever go to my site and like some of my gun articles, please pass them along!

PR