Drew my revolver on a dog; am I just a sissy?

[Dr_2_B]

I was doing my usual walk through a neighborhood in downtown Indianapolis yesterday afternoon and a dog approached... no growl, but no wag either - I couldn't get a read on his body language. He was not an overly large dog, maybe sixty or so pounds, so perhaps I shouldn't have been too alarmed. As a rule, the larger dogs are the more dangerous ones simply because of our relative strengths. But the pitbull is smaller than the German Shepherds and the Rottweilers, and its design actually makes it the most dangerous (plus there's some evidence there may be some cerebral problems because of their breeding). The problem is, there are so many cross-breeds that I couldn't tell for sure whether he was a pitbull, but he did have a short snout and a rugged-looking body.

As the dog approached - there was no one around on the street - I actually pulled the matte-black S&W 442 from my back pocket and held it down at my side as I said, "No, get away" etc. in a firm voice. No incident occurred. I need to retrieve my expandable baton and my canister of pepper spray from storage this weekend, but my question is: Do you think I was just being paranoid? Chances are the thing would've just licked me to death, right? What do you guys think?

[DunedinDragon]

We'd need more information to really determine if the dog was a threat or not.

Did the dog have any gang tatoos?

Was the dog wearing baggy pants that were falling down over his butt and listening to Hip-Hop music at the time?

Was the dog looking around suspiciously as he approached to see if there might be some witnesses?

Were there other dogs hiding just out of sight as the main dog approached?

I'd say work on beefing up your situational awareness....;)

[joab]

But the pitbull is smaller than the German Shepherds and the Rottweilers, and its design actually makes it the most dangerous (plus there's some evidence there may be some cerebral problems because of their breeding).Please post a link to your cerebral damage evidence
The problem is, there are so many cross-breeds that I couldn't tell for sure whether he was a pitbull, but he did have a short snout and a rugged-looking body.Why is it that every dog that scares us is or may be a Pit these days. No wonder they get blamed for every thing.
It just like Brown Recluse spiders. Every time someone gets a spider bite they claim it to be a BRS. I have never understood how one of the most uncommon spiders is responsible for almost all the bites in America even in areas where they don't exist..
I guess it just makes us more manly or makes for a better story to be bitten by the baddest animal out there.

Yes, you were paranoid.
You are lucky that nobody called in a man with a gun report. I'd be more concerned with someone who pulled on a non aggressive dog than I would a dog simply walking on the street.
Sounds very much like new gun syndrome to me.
And finally if you accept a wagging tail as evidence of good intentions you are probably going to be bitten in the future.
Probably by a Benji mutt that will also magically morph into a Pit

[kirkcdl]

A wagging tail indicates the dog is excited.It doesn't mean he's happy with you...

[jmcc11]

Correct me if I'm wrong , but you pulled a gun on a dog that was not acting aggressive or threatening but because it may have been a Pit Bull. If so that is paranoid. As stated already a wagging tail has nothing to do with friendliness.


But the pitbull is smaller than the German Shepherds and the Rottweilers, and its design actually makes it the most dangerous (plus there's some evidence there may be some cerebral problems because of their breeding).

I would also like to see evidence of this.

[Dr_2_B]

Thanks for the replies. Sounds like I may have been out of line.

[TMM]

You were just playing it safe, but i would not have drawn. just keep your hand near your gun, pretending that you're just getting an itch or putting your hand on your hip.

Another idea would be to carry the gun in your front pocket so your hand is always on it.

~tmm

[Majic]

People walk by you without a smile or a friendly wave also, but do you draw your revolver on them?

[AirForceShooter]

no:
you weren't out of line.
Never trust a dog you don't know.
You got ready, that's all.
It's a good thing as Martha would say.

AFS

[1wildbill]

http://www.wagatv.com/iteam/bred.html

http://www.pbreporter.com/Guide%20to%20fighting%20breeds.htm

While I agree with "Pitbull Lovers" in principle, I do disagree with the fact that "Pits" as a whole are a nice, lovable dog that if trained correctly will never cause problems. (BTW the number one people killer dog in America is the Rotweiller.)

The number one biting dog, at least a few years ago, was the Cocker Spaniel. When a Cocker Spaniel bites they usually don't do much damage and seldom if ever kill. Why was the Cocker the #1 biter? They became very popular after WWII and the breeders couldn't keep up with demand, they were inbred and this produced a high strung, unpredictable dog. I think this has happened to the Pitbull.

Besides inbreeding the Pit is often bred to fight. Many Pit owners use words like "game" to describe the dogs that will not give up the fight no matter how badly they are hurt. You bet they get bred.

I have owned 2 German Shepards in my life, the two best dog's I have ever had. When I got the first one family and some friends were horrified. A dog like that cannot be trusted, he will attack your kids. Well, quite the opposite. You better not act like you were going to harm my kids. Neither dog ever bit a person, but they threatened on several occasions when they thought their "pack" was being endangered, and probably would have had I not been present to call them off.

I think that there are so many scumbags that train and breed the pitbull, and several other breeds to fight, that they have really spoiled the breed; in the media especially. All the fighting breeds get lumped together as "Pits". I had the misfortune to live in an area where pitbull fighting was rampant. Almost every young teenage boy had at least one "Pit" and they were always talking about how they would fight.

Of course it is the owner's and breeder's fault that these dog's are this way, but................ As with any dog, especially a big dog, the owner must take the time and effort to train the dog, and many people don't. They chain the dog in the backyard and leave it pretty much alone.

I sure don't know the answer to the Pit Bull question, but I just don't like them, strictly a personal thing. Of course another dog I don't like is a Siberian Husky, because of a personal incident.

If you want a Pit, make sure it comes from a good blood line, not one bred to fight. Then spend the time and effort to train the dog well. If it does attack a human, or threatens to, you have to have it trained to stop on command. My dog's responded to "Out". If it attacks other dogs for no reason, you might want to re-consider keeping it. But have it humanely put down and don't "drop it" off on a deserted road in the country. And for God's sake don't let it roam.

[fritz1]

[Qute]I have owned 2 German Shepards in my life, the two best dog's I have ever had. When I got the first one family and some friends were horrified. A dog like that cannot be trusted, he will attack your kids. Well, quite the opposite. You better not act like you were going to harm my kids. Neither dog ever bit a person, but they threatened on several occasions when they thought their "pack" was being endangered, and probably would have had I not been present to call them off.

+ 100 I have three German shephards and they do not discriminate they will know the agressor no matter who it is, do not approach small children in a seemingly threatening manner, oh god no. best dogs ever

[quote] A wagging tail indicates the dog is excited.It doesn't mean he's happy with you

+1 when some one aproaches my house or front gate they bark fiercely and wag thier tails

my dogs never roam but my idiot sattelite instaler knowing there is three shepards in the hallway he opened my screen door without nocking and then tried to close the door on one of my dogs head while raising an object he had in his hands as if he was going to hit my dog, well needles to say I pushed the door open and very PISSED OFF I was I physycally removed him from the property while he was being surrounded by three very large shepards

as a poster above said I would have had my hand close to my weapon but never never draw and point at anything you're not ready to shoot, particularly since you said there were no positive signs of agression, dogs will always approach and sniff and useualy move on but some dogs you can sense are unpredictable.

[wbond]

Except that your're gun carrying is no longer a secret to anyone watching. I wasn't there and wasn't in your situation. So I can't judge you. It sounds like maybe you could have just put your hand on your gun without drawing, but I don't know. I wasn't there.

I once did the same thing with a 225 lb dog. It turned out he was friendly, but dangerous anyway just because he like to jump on people from a running start. Ouch.

I didn't shoot him because it wasn't necessary and he was a well meaning, friendly dog as it turned out.

However, when he jumped on me the second time (despite my yelling "no"), then I gave him a lump on his head with the butt of my Ruger SP101. He stopped jumping on me then.

In your case, I don't think there was any harm in drawing, if you felt threatened. However, you did show everyone around that you have a gun and are scared of a little dog. That's the downside right there.

At least you did have the retraint not to shoot the dog. Oh well. Just move on.

[wbond]

I'm not a dog expert, but I know a few things.

Pitbulls were bred (from their beginning) specifically for fighting other dogs. They are very dangerous to other dogs. However, they are less dangerous to people than their repuation suggests. Their natural instinct (bred in) is to attack dogs, not people. However, they have the potential to attack people. If they do attack people, they are short enough that a person has a chance to defend by kicking.

Rotweillers were bred (from their beginning) for guard dogs to guard against people and attack people. This is why Rotweillers are so dangerous to people. I think they may be less dangerous to another dog simply because that isn't what they were bred to kill. If a Rotweiller attacks a person, the dog is stall enough and heavy enough to bring you down and kill you.

Other breeds have been used and bred for these purposes, but only as an after thought after the breeds already existed. The pitbull and rotweiller have been bred for their specific purposes from the very start of their breeds, which is a very long time.

I have only a respect for pitbulls, not a fear. I do fear Rotweillers. Also, I've found that yelling "no" at a Rotweiller has no effect other to enrage the dog. I can cow most dogs just by yelling "no" in a command voice. With Rotweillers I've found that silence and slowing backing away is best. I wouldn't hesitate to draw on a Rotweiller and I wouldn't hesitate to shoot it either, if necessary.

In my local area, there was a newspaper article about a man who pulled into the wrong driveway to turn around because he was lost. Woops. The house he pulled into had a rotweiller. The dog attacked the man's car (an older model camero). The dog popped the front tire by biting through the sidewall. Then it attacked the front bumper and left teeth mark dents in the steel bumper. Yes I said it. It happened. There was no one home so the man (with flat tire) tried to drive off, but could only drive very slowly with a flat front tire. The rotweiller was easily able to keep pace and kept following the car. The man could not change his tire with the dog outside the car. He had to pull over and call the police on his cell phone to come rescure him from the dog, which is how the incident made the newspaper. This dog had been left unsupervised and not fenced or leased. It was free to roam its urban neighborhood.

Rotweillers are special dogs because they have bred-in instincts to kill you, immense strength, and they are very persistant in their efforts to carry out their mission. I would not hesitate to draw on a rotweiller. However, I'm much more restrained with other breeds.

How dogs are raised is a big factor. A lot of scum buckets are attracted to raising pit bulls and rotweillers and train them to be mean. Scum bags often abuse them to make them mean. Sad. Anytime a dog harms a law abiding human, the dog owner should be prosecuted.

Dog owners of these breeds need scrutiny. These dogs are weapons that have a mind of their own and their owners are often morons or criminals. Many of these idiots could not buy a gun because of their records, but they can buy a dog that is actually more dangerous than a gun because it's unpredictable.

[joab]

I can't add anything to what wbond said except that the reputation of Pits not stopping after the initial bite is somewhat overblown.

My dog recently bit a neighbor kid that used to pick on him..

There are too many stories to really get an accurate account of what happened but the basics are that the kid opened the gate after the dog was barking and warning him off.
The dog ran halfway out the gate bit him on the butt and simply returned to his post just inside the gate, huffed at him and sat down (wagging his tail)
There was no vicious attack, no face torn off, no fight to the death.
All in all the same type of bite that a Cocker or pound mutt would have given.

The reason I ask for evidence of "cerebral problems" and the reason I'm glad a few have posted about how great the GSDs are is because I passed on a pure bred GSD a few years ago because of the supposed reputation for inbred cerebral problems in Shepards the same thing was common street knowledge about Dobermans and RidgeBacks in the past.
I've learned to listen to these reports with a skeptical ear

I still maintain that pulling a gun on a public street with no clear provocation or indication of imminent danger is not the best course

[real_name]

When you drew your revolver on this dog I just hope you used a sharpie, otherwise it will wash off in the first rain.

[ArmedBear]

People walk by you without a smile or a friendly wave also, but do you draw your revolver on them?

In Idaho, yes. People are so polite and friendly there, anyone who gives you a cold stare is probably a murderer. You think I'm kidding, but go there. Nicest people I've ever met, but they don't overdo it, either.:)

In California, no. You just want people to walk by and say nothing. The people who are all smiles and friendly waves either want you to give all your money their weird religion, or sign a petition to ban the cruel and unnecessary eating of meat.:p

[ArmedBear]

BTW the dog breeds that are the greatest threat to humans are probably breeds you've never heard of or seen.

APBT breed standards include total non-aggression towards humans. There is no such thing as a human-agressive American Pit Bull Terrier, because a dog showing human aggression would be disqualified from listing by the governing body that defines the breed.

The problem is screwed-up people, not dog breeds. An individual dog can pose a threat, though. Drawing on it wasn't inherently dumb. Shooting it at 10 yards, then asserting that you have a larger penis because of your bravery, would be pretty lame, though.:p

[10-Ring]

2 years ago while on my morning jog, I was attacked by 2 dogs. I was running down the middle of my street when these 2 dogs ran out from their garage. I kicked one but the other bit me. Believe me, if I had been armed there'd be one less dog in the neighborhood :cuss: You aren't a sissy if you've idenitified a threat and got prepared to defend yourself

[carnaby]

Interesting... I was walking down the sidewalk with my 2 year old daughter when a lab sized dog comes running at us aggressively barking. It was in full intimidation mode and scared the snot out my girl. I wasn't armed because I was just walking down the road, but the first thing I thought was "I wish I had my gun."

The owner called the dumb thing off and got pretty mad at it. Appologized like crazy three times. I said no problem. I could have kicked the dogs butt anyway, but it wouldn't have been fun getting bit. If I was armed, I was about a second and a half from being in a position where I would have drawn on the dog though, what with my daughter being there. Not leaving anything to chance in that situation. Actually, dogs are the reason I started carrying when taking my daughter out for late walks when she was a baby. I could take one dog by myself, but two or more? And I'd just read about a couple incidents where more than one dog got loose and attacked people. Otherwise, my neighborhood is about as safe as they come.

[Coltdriver]

A dog off a leash can spoil your day in a big hurry. I would not feel bad about being ready to shoot a dog if I thought in any way that it might harm me.

I got surrounded by 6 pit bulls in a national forest once. I pulled my measly 5 shot revolver and was about to commence shooting when the owner jogged down the trail and called them off. I now carry a high power with at least a 15 round mag when in the forrest.

When I was a kid I got chased by a half dozen good sized dogs in my neighborhood. I managed to escape but I know they would have mauled me if they had caught me.

Once, while riding a bicycle down about a two mile straight road in Turkey I was chased by a pack of dogs. Scared the heck out of me. They would have killed me I have no doubt. About 20 of them.

So, being conditioned, I have no hesitation on preparing to shoot any unleashed dog. And being able to shoot sooner than later is only good for you and bad for the mutt.

[Surefire]

I think breeding, training, and socialization are a critical triangle in having a good dog. If any of these legs breaks, the triangle collapses and you have a potentially dangerous dog.

I'm personally a HUGE Boxer fan, because of their affection level, loyalty, and relative ease of training. They are the only bully breed that appeals to me--its a breed that is relatively easy to socialize with animals, and they usually are great around people. However, because they look kind of square (big head, boxy build), I often get people insulting me for walking a "Pit Bull".

My personal opinion: I don't necessarily worry about a dog just because its a Pit Bull Terrier, Rottweiler, Bull Mastiff, etc. I've seen at least a dozen of well tempered Rottweilers and Bull Mastiffs, and a couple good Pits. In all of these cases, the dogs were:

1. Bred well
2. Socialized early and often
3. Trained with firm love (shown who is boss in a nice way--no force used)

When one or more of the above fails, especially in medium to large size breeds predisposed to dominance/agression/gameness, you've got a potentially dangerous dog.

Having said this, terriers, even the little ones can be some of the nastiest, gameness dogs I've ever seen. My neighbor's Yorkshire Terrier attacks dogs ANY size, hangs on to them like a Pit Bull does, and even has bitten people hard enough to cause stitches. The little dogs don't get a lot of attention when they attack, because the damage that they do is limited.

To reply to the original post, I think a dog OFF LEASH is a potential threat. I think immediately pulling a gun out might be a little over-reaction, but only you were there so perhaps it was justified. I think in my case, I would have prepared to draw, without actually showing a gun. YMMV

[Limeyfellow]

The only time we really had a problem with this is my brother in law and one of the neighbours dog. The guy used to feed gunpowder to them and they could jump the fence and it went for my brother in law's wife so he shot it. The neighbour was a mean SOB who really screwed up those dogs. My grandfather fought off a violent feral dog with a penknife.

[Sgt Stevo]

I get bit by dogs two to five times a week. I train k-9s at a one of the best training schools in the country.

A dog that is going to hit you. will not hide the point. pits hit fast and hard.

Wildbill is on the money. My wife owns a APBT. She is protection, tracking, etc trained.

She is smart. I prefer well bred sheps, German, dutch, etc. But, she is a good dog.

Now were you paranoid? Dude. I am around dogs that can, and will do bad things to me most everyday.

I have never had to do more than put something between me and the nasty rott or whatever . On the field is another thing. If he is sent you, yet another.

But some mutt on the street? Are you afraid of dogs of general? That might explain it. But if you walked down my street and pulled gun on our dog. For nothing. You would have whole new set of problems. Like I always say. If gang bangers loved poodles, they will be banned.

[roscoe]

Wait - what happens when you feed a dog gunpowder?

[Willo]

dog profiling

[TMM]

i'm also curious as to what feeding gunpowder to the dog does...

[Sgt Stevo]

Feeding gun powder to dogs, is an old brutal way of making dogs nuts. It basically errodes part of their brain.

Just like in third world countrys, whent hey give coke and gun powder to kids. they are more nuts. And they fight and die better.

it is a bad idea.

[Socrates]

Breeding dogs. Long time ago, in a place far away,Santa Cruz, I had lots of friends that bred dogs. Learned a lot from them. Dog shows, and breeders are some of the biggest criminals in the world. Most of the judges are really weird, read fruity, and, they get on tangents, about what 'they' want dogs to look like.

We had two championship breeders I knew well. One for Great Pyrenees mountain dogs, and another for Newfoundlands.

http://www.99520.com/grpyrenees7.jpg

http://www.thickishnewfs.com/web/wingy2.jpg

My boss had, and was trying to breed, Rotts.

The Pyr and Newf breeders all knew the fickilness of the dog show judges. They would go through phases, where working dogs, with big, wide heads, were supposed to look like Greyhounds. Thin, non-existent brain pans, narrow, feimine, bones, resulted in squirrelly, bad dogs, that often had to be put down.

But, as a breeder, they would develop two lines, one for the narrow head phases, and one for the real standard, in this case, both with huge, big heads, large brains, and big bones.

These same judges are responsible for rotts, and pitbulls, being bred to look like Greyhounds, with the result that the dogs are bred for looks, rather then their working ability, and, with that, comes mental instability.

That's what gives you bad dogs, and, combine that with owners that have the same breeding, you have a nightmare waiting to happen.

I was at Ocean Beach in San Francisco walking with my girlfriend, and, scumbag with pickup truck, drunk at the beach, had a big pitbull off lead, who came over and started sniffing my girlfriend. I realized there was nothing I could have really done, if he would have come at her, or at least, not much. We walked away, quickly.

That said, one of the most loveable dogs I've ever been around was a rott named Dax. He was 120 pounds of lapdog, attack trained, and smart as a whip. He would sit on your lap, obey commands, and, I had complete confidence in him. He was a thick, smart dog.

One of my fondest memories was going up to a door at a business we were guarding, after hearing a couple gun shots, with Dax off lead. We didn't know who was at the door, and, with the power out for three days, we couldn't see much.

I opened the door, and it was a police officer. He looked down, saw Dax, and was very nice. Dax was solid black, and, the only thing you could really see where his bright white canine teeth. The officer was investigating the shots we'd heard.

Dax handled the situation well, and I had confidence in his ability to determine the right situation, and deal with it.

The real criminals are the dog show judges...

S

[Sgt Stevo]

thats why we dont deal with the AKC. Except to register if we have to.

Working dog breeders, breed dogs to work. Akc show dogs are bred to walk in circles and stand.

[joab]

i'm also curious as to what feeding gunpowder to the dog does...An urban myth along the same lines as feeding salt peter to soldiers to keep their minds on soldiering. I knew some guys who didn't eat for almost a week because of that tale.

Feeding gunpowder to dogs simply destroys their stomach lining and will eventually poison them to death. It does not cause any physiological brain damage.
Other than possibly making them grumpy for the ulcers and bloody diarrhea. But the loss of energy and muscle mass should counter that threat

[cvb]

and here in the Philippines youre just trying to get pulutan.
dog + San Miguel Beer:uhoh:

[XLMiguel]

I've heard a lot of folks here say, "Go with your gut" in a variety of situations. I think that's good advice. It is better to have and not need, and chance does favor the prepared mind. If a 60 lb. dog got a good hold of you, getting to your weapon could be sporty.

OTOH, a little discretion goes a long way. I've palmed my Tomcat or P-9 on occasion, no one know the difference, but I sure felt better . . YMMV

[Dr_2_B]

Well, fortunately now it sounds like not everyone thinks I was nuts. Yeah, I like dogs fine, I just couldn't get a read on this one for some reason. I had an uncomfortable feeling. I've learned to trust my intuition. I just held the revolver at my side as I walked around the dog. Turns out he didn't do a thing. I shoulda had a can of pepper spray. I wouldn't have needed it either, but it is the right tool for that sort of situation.

[Sgt Stevo]

Dude, relax. Not nuts, but Over reacting is not a good thing. I dont fear dogs, so I would have not reacted at all.

I have been under fire. So I dont look for reasons to pull a weapon. If a dog Gets to close , tell it to leave.

If it does not , say scat and clap your hands. Then kick it in the head. If you need to bring it up a knotch.

If you are being attacked. You will know.

I think it is hard for some of us, to take some things serius. A lot of the THR guys are vets, cops, Private secter tough guys, etc.

So our idea of what is scary is lot different than. Say, most peoples.


Not that they are sissys, just that they have not had the same jading.

I cant get excited about a stray dog, unless it has an IED sewn into it....

[joab]

Well, fortunately now it sounds like not everyone thinks I was nuts.
I apologize for my initial remarks

The post hit a sore spot and I assumed that this would turn into another one of those media induced pitbulls are vicious beasts threads.

If I felt that there was a possibility that a dog was unfriendly I would have palmed the gun but not brought it out for Agnes Kravitz or the dogs owner to possibly see through her window and call in..
That's pretty much my only legitimate critique

In line with what Sgt Stevo said
I've been bitten over twenty three times, it takes more to set my alarms off than it would a person with common sense.

[Socrates]

Whatever. My point is simply the AKC, and their SFB's 'happy' judges, are directly responsible for the stupid pitbulls out there, that should be put down.

By requiring 'traits' that aren't in the breed, read, look like a greyhound, but you are a pit, they so screw up the breed that they should experience the results of their preverted standards. Let the judges, and the dogs get in the same ring...

Or better yet, everytime a akc registered pit attacks someone, I'm going to find a group of lawyers that love dogs, and, we'll sue the AKC for the actions of the dogs, they caused to be breed.

I LOVE IT...WE'LLL DO IT.

s

[Heraclid]

My job involves a lot of working from boats around bodies of water, but failing that, often times you have to do things on foot. The main thing to watch is the snakes, but I have had several dogs run up on me. One growled and rushed me, stopped short, and eventually got playful. Then his owner who had been yelling at him but doing nothing finally walks up in her bikini (too busy working on her tan), which at that point I did not want because I did not want her getting close and then the dog going into defend-my-person mode. Several have just followed me around.

Usually I am very aware, but a few weeks back a pit bull got real close before a jingle of his collar gave him away. Studying me intensely, but not full-grown and maybe not so sure of himself. I started working back toward the truck in a very controlled, non-panicky way. If he thought I was coming at him, he would dart off a bit, but he would try to work behind me and close the distance that way. Eventually he saw something else apparently more interesting and took off. So I'm talking to the property manager later, bring this up but only said "a dog", and she asks if it was a pit bull. I said yes and she informs me there are a few that have been running loose lately and there have been attacks. :what:

Now what has always worked for me so far (knock on wood) is that I always try very hard not to project any fear. I try act very nonchalant about the dog so that it thinks I am not feeling the least bit threatened by it. This will be a reaction they are probably not that used to. I wear tinted safety glasses for work any way, so they cannot see my eyes, and the work outfit and gear seems to take them aback bit, so that works to my advantage (not looking like a normal human they see all the time). I talk to the dog like it's my buddy. What I never do is immediately try to walk away or run. I don't attempt to approach them either, but I don't take off and invite attack. In fact, I go so far as to turn my back on them occasionally (strategically timed though). It's all about sending the right message.

In the event of an attack, my best defense is probably what I am spraying out, which in some cases is very irritating to the eyes, nose and throat (particularly eyes - temporarily blinding). Other than that all I usually have is a pocketknife and what God gave me. I have a machete in the truck but only carry it as the job dictates a need for it, which is very rare. But at that particular account, it will be tucked in my rubber boot from now on, especially since the terrain (bad footing) would work against me in a fight.

First of all, people should not be letting their dogs have the run of the neighborhood. If it happens accidentally, you probably didn't try hard enough. I once picked up a German shepherd (grew up with them, love 'em, great dogs) that was wandering a busy street, on a sweeping turn no less. My parents kept it at their place (much more space) and lo and behold the owner came by and claimed her. Damned if two days later I wasn't picking up the same dog in the same place because they failed to secure the dog again! I would have probably kept the dog and not tried to return her but a neighbor of the owners showed up as I was recovering her the second time. But I was angry that it happened twice (just that I personally am aware of) in quick succesion, and then the guy didn't much seem to give a rat's rear end about the dog really and when I returned her the place was the worst mosquito pit you ever saw in your life. And I know damn well they probably never got that dog on heartworm meds. And that kind of stuff pisses me off. I lost a great German shepherd that way (heartworms) because the vet erroneously said he had a damaged liver and advised us not to put him through heartworm treatment because the stress of both might kill him.

Regarding breeders, many of them are idiots. We used to spend some time around those types when we were training the German shepherds we had. We had beautiful dogs because we got the pups they felt were no good for showing. Meaning they didn't have that funky, stupid looking angle down their back where the hips are so low. Breeders find this desirable. That is BS. It is a weird aesthetic thing they promote which is unnatural. The worst dogs there are for having hip displaysia problems are German shepherds.

I do not believe all pit bulls are dangerous. But I also tend to think you can never be sure with one and I will never totally trust one either. You have to go on whatever you have seen or heard before, and would be foolish to ignore that warning. Point is, a dog bred or trained to be vicious is a potential killer. The problem with pit bulls though, is assinine people screwing with what they shouldn't have. And let's face it, most people with pit bulls have them to intimidate other people and to make up for whatever insecurities they have and look tough and all that crap.

[Dienekes]

That's what's nice about a matte finish 442--you can have it out and palm it and 99% of the time the world will never notice unless it goes boom.

I like dogs and kids--well behaved ones with some adult supervision. Unfortunately they are getting to be rare.

When I was a kid most dogs were mutts and loved and cared for by their owners. I am a dog person myself--but haven't had one since I was young.

Aggressive dogs are usually indicative of a screwed-up owner. Personally I have no use for either and will do what needs doing.

[drdirk]

Pulling a gun on a dog that is just "there" and someone "feels" theatened is stupid in my opinion. It gives people wit CCL a bad rap. Everybody had there opinion, but mine is, unless the dog attacks, keep your gun away.

It should be a last option, not a first reaction when you get surprised by a dog.

[Kestrel]

Meaning they didn't have that funky, stupid looking angle down their back where the hips are so low.

That is my biggest pet peeve about GSD show dogs. I can't stand that crippled rear-end look, that the judges and breeders love. I don't understand why they want such an atrocity. Where will they stop - when the GSD's rear end is finally dragging completely on the ground?

The best looking GSDs, are the proper squared shape. Some of the best ones I've seen are from German lines and working lines.

A GSD with a crippled looking rear end is an abomination.

[stolivar]

I have over 25 years experience with dogs on the street everyday. Some dogs do not and I repeat do not show any warning signs before they attack. Pitt bulls that have attacked me have not shown any signs, nothing, no bark, no growl, no wagging tales, no nothing. They don't back off very often either. Now Rott's are just down right scary. Like sgt said, most of the time you just get something between you and the dog. Believe me a good kick will stop most dogs. Another is give it commands in a very loud and stern voice. If the dog has had any training at all they will usually stop and obey or back off. You have to let them know that you are the alpa dog. If they really want you bad enough you have a fight on your hands. Would not draw my weapon but might put my hand on the butt of it in case.


Steve the Mailman

[swampdog]

I've found that the best way to avoid trouble with dogs (and other predators) is to not show fear. They sense it. In 42 years of knocking around, I've been attacked twice and bitten once. My younger brother, on the other hand, is scared to death of dogs. He's been bitten by more dogs than either one of us can count. Perfectly normal, friendly dogs turn into frothing, biting maniacs in his presence. He's been bitten by poodles, jack russels, dachshunds, you name it. If he gets around a dog, before too long, it'll bite him.
He's not the only one I know that has this problem. I know an ex-local game warden that quit his job because every dog he ran into hated him on sight.
When you warn a dog off, verbally, you have to "mean" it. They'll know if you are scared to death.
The one time I was bitten was a sneak attack. I had introduced myself to this dog, a siberian husky that belonged to my ex-wife. He'd sniffed my hand, wagged his tail, and I'd rubbed his head. As soon as I turned my back, he bit me on the hip, tearing my jeans. I responded with a boot upside his head. We understand each other, now. This dog had been abused by a previous owner and was a classic "fear biter". He'll go to the other side of the yard when he sees me, now, but I'll never turn my back on him again. Like I said, we understand each other. Besides, my ex probably wouldn't have understood if I gunned down her dog in her front yard, as much as he might deserve it.:D

+1 Sgt Stevo
+1 drdirk

[denfoote]

The Boy Scout in me says it didn't hurt to be prepared.!!!:evil:

[Mannlicher]

since ya asked; maybe not a sissy, but maybe just a tad eager for justification,.

[Dr_2_B]

Mannlicher,

If you're still around, tell me what you mean. Honestly, I'm listening.

[hatterasurf]

I have pit mix that is about 75 pounds, that i got from the SPCA. He is the toughest looking dog i have seen in along time. he is the friendly and nice to everyone. I would hate to know if he got out of the yard and was walking around and someone shot him because he looked like a pit. If the dog looks well care for and has a collar, i'm sure they are not a treat. Think before you shoot, man, dog or bear. They all have rights.

[bbutler]

No offense but I think that is being trigger happy.

[dawgtraxx]

i got bit by a friggin' chihuahua the other day...i am a dog person...have had dogs all my life...went to a friends house that had 2 of the little things..petted one,very sweet animal,went to pet the other..latched on to my finger and wouldnt let go...i think to come up with that breed they crossed a pirahna with a rat...not sure though..anyway ..i think some breeds have inherent traits..but i think for the most part it is the environment that the dogs are brought up in...i had a Rott that was the nicest dog you'd ever seen..and then i had a lab/shepherd mix that picked up as a stray pup ..that was mean as a snake...and absolutley fearless...

[Sgt Stevo]

+1 to our wise friend from Florida....

[panzermk2]

Always go with your GUT! Lately when I go on late evening walks with my kids I grab my wifes Colt Agent 38. If it was just me I know I could make short work of a misunderstood pooch with my cold steel. But with at least 2 kids or 3 if the newborne is with me the gun is coming out.

It amazes me how so many posters here stated how much he over reacted.
You all need to deal with some facts.

As gun owners we regularly talk about how Bad Guys can cover 20 feet with a knife and kill an LEO before he draw his weapon from a duty rig.

Now we have a guy his side arm in a concealed rig a whole lot harder to draw from and a possible attacker that can cover
40 FEET in less time than a knife wielding thug can in 20 AND you say He over REACTED!?!?!?!?!?!?

We just read posts here about a LEO killed ITLD because he would not draw and fire and kept warning the driver of the truck. His weapon should have been out sooner controlling and not being controlled.
By drawing on the dog the dog no longer controlled the situation

To be on the safe side I would have shot the damn dog

[Sgt Stevo]

Shot the dog? really. LOL So your walkin down the street and you see a Dog.

And you think mabe, he is planning something. Like to pretend to be friendly, and without warning. Kill you.

So you pull out a .38 and shoot him twice in the head with cor-bons. BLAM!

And the neighbors call the cops. And the owner attacks you. And his kids. But you escape.

But as you walk back to your house. Out if the corner of your eye. Oh no, its a kitty! And she is looking right at you!
And everybody knows, a man with stick can cover twenty yards,:what: and killl a Navy seal before he can use his M-P 5. God knows what this horrid creature of the night could do?:what:

[meef]

Regarding feeding dogs gunpowder...... I recall that Roy Rogers used to feed his dog gunpowder on a regular basis.

Guess that accounted for his name.



:D :D

[panzermk2]

If it’s a dog I don’t know ( one not in my class) and I feel my kids are at risk YES.
You see I'm not a dog trainer and I can't talk to the dog to get a better understanding of his body signals and what he is up to.

K9 trainer I am not, but I do live in the Chicago area where gang bangers regularly have dogfights and leave their dogs to loose. We just had the face chewed off a 4 yrld girl a couple of months ago.
But I'm sure it was her fault for not understanding that the loose pitbull was in his rite to attack her since she was out playing in front of her house.

Dog people always give the benefit of doubt to the dog since in their minds the dog’s life is equal to humans. They will deny it but their owns words prove it

[panzermk2]

and if they loved the dog so much it should not have been running loose.
What if it ran into the street as I was driving home. Should I swerve to miss the dog and ram a tree so the owner/kids/mom/dad/spca wouldn't get upset that I ran over the dog?

[stimpy17]

I had to pull down on a pack once and fired into the ground-once. That made them go the other way fast. Dogs can be hard to read and sometimes there will be no "Mad Charlie" charge, just walk right up to you and clamp on to your leg. You stood you ground, because you had a firearm you didn't sweat and smell as much which to him meant he didn't scare you into running.
At which time he would have caught you and and ripped off chunks of flesh.

You did fine. Get the pepper spray and baton.

[repo]

If you allow your pitbull, rotty, chow or whatever to wander on public property or someone else's private property, I would say it's perfectly acceptable for your dog to get shot. I don't see anything wrong with the situation the poster described.

[Deer Hunter]

I believe it was out of line. Pull a gun on a dog? Are you kidding? Maybe it's just me, but I've fended off a number of animals with my limbs. That being said, maybe if the dog was foaming at the mouth and running toward you in a not-so-friendly sort of way, then you would have been justified. But just walking by you? Maybe it wanted to sniff you; a new scent in it's part of the world and he was curious.

Maybe curiousity didn't kill the cat, but rather the dog...

[Sgt Stevo]

Lol you guys are funny as hell. The dog was walking. Not stalking, growling.

whatever. I am not one to be afraid of much.

And the dogs I train, they are there, to take the bullet for the LE guy or whom ever.

I just think it funny, how does walking past a dog, become driving and swerving and killing nuns or whatever?

How is justified to shoot dog for wandering around? If a dog goes for a child kill it.

I would. But Walking around, sniffing bushes? No one on here is that tightly wrapped. Right? I asked a cop myself, and a couple other THR members shoot with, today.

He said, "The guy would go to jail." "unless the dog showed some REAL aggression." The owner could press charges and sue." And he would probly lose his ccw. That said, I cant believe the fear I read here. If your afraid of a dog, how would you handle a human attack? Man up, the world is scary. And dont look so hard for a reason to be tactical. If some wing nut shot one my sheps, just for wandering by mistake. I would own him. Sissy does not describe this sillyness.......

[fritz1]

Quote]: Man up, the world is scary. And dont look so hard for a reason to be tactical. If some wing nut shot one my sheps, just for wandering by mistake. I would own him. Sissy does not describe this sillyness

+1000:fire:

[Socrates]

I love animals. I also was bit on the face by a German Shep when I was 6, for no good reason. Just came up and snapped at me, and got my face.

Weren't there, don't know the situation, don't know the dog.
Not passing judgement on the entire issue.

Doesn't hurt to be ready.

S

[joab]

But I'm sure it was her fault for not understanding that the loose pitbull was in his rite to attack her since she was out playing in front of her house.granted I have not read every single post here but who has said that a dog has a right to bite a child or even implied it
Dog people always give the benefit of doubt to the dog since in their minds the dog’s life is equal to humans. They will deny it but their owns words prove itAnd some people just want to shoot something. They deny it but there irrelevant comments prove it
Should I swerve to miss the dog and ram a tree so the owner/kids/mom/dad/spca wouldn't get upset that I ran over the dog?See what I mean.

As I stated before I've been bitten twenty three times over the past 23 years.
I've avoided and fended off many many more attacks.
Never, not once,has an animal bitten or attacked without some warning, especially off their own property.
Dogs are simple minded animals they bite for specific reasons. They are either hunting, or protecting themselves or they are just mean.
In any of these cases they give off signals that are easily recognizable to anyone paying attention
While a strange dog paying attention to you is ample reason to pay attention to it it does not rise to the level of imminent danger sufficient to produce your gun on a public street.

[Dr_2_B]

Whew,

If I'd been bitten 23 times, I believe I'd be walking around with a 12 ga. and a pet lion.

[swampdog]

While a strange dog paying attention to you is ample reason to pay attention to it it does not rise to the level of imminent danger sufficient to produce your gun on a public street.

joab,
Well spoken.
Does anyone else wonder how much mileage an antigun/anticcw group could get out of a post like this? What if he had of shot the dog? I can see the headlines now. "Trigger-Happy Gun Lover Shoots Member of Family" They'd be interviewing the dogs "family" on the local news, showing his toys, bed, etc. The news loves to jump on dog owners. They'd really love to jump on a ccw holder.
In NC, you better have a good reason to shoot someone's dog, like stitches. My county doesn't even have a leash law. It does have laws against brandishing a firearm, though.
Mace, walking stick, collapsable baton. I see people walking down the road with garden hoes.
Maybe we could have a new thread, "What's the best caliber for dogs?" I'm sure many people wouldn't think a .357 was sufficient and would suggest a caliber beginning with "4".:D

[Kestrel]

Maybe we could have a new thread, "What's the best caliber for dogs?"


Haha! How about, "What's the best boot size for dogs?" I don't have a "dog in this fight", but I just had a funny mental image of doing some testing. You could tie a pork chop on one leg and a biscuit on the other and run down the street. See how many dogs come after you and start your testing... Don't know why that struck me as so funny.

People have different reactions and experiences with dogs. Some folks are very afraid of them - usually from not understanding them or from a bad experience with them.

I love dogs and If I'm out walking and see a dog, I usually try to get the dog to come over, so I can pet it or I'll walk over to it and try to pet it. If it acts aggressive, I'll just leave it alone. (Now, if I have my dog with me, I'm much more cautious, though. He's dog agressive and I don't want an unexpected dog fight.)

[1wildbill]

Once, while riding a bicycle down about a two mile straight road in Turkey I was chased by a pack of dogs. Scared the heck out of me. They would have killed me I have no doubt. About 20 of them.

The first day that I arrived in Turkey they were driving us from the airport to our base. We drove through a herd of sheep and one of the large white "Sheep Dogs" (don't remember the name of the breed now) attacked the International Harvester Carry-All we were riding in. I guess that's the reason that I saw very few bikes in Turkey. No point to this thread, just a story.

If gunpowder eats the dog's stomach lining I would think this would make it "mean". This is what the people(?) who do it want. Had a friend who was told this about his dog by an idiot, "Oughta feed him gunpowder, makes 'em mean, a mean dog is good to have." Don't tell me Roy did this, next to Gene Autry he was my greatest childhood hero.

If a dog is carrying it's tail high and wagging it rather slowly, along with other body language, I would take it as a threat, or a "warning" from the dog. I don't think you were a "sissy" for pulling your gun, but hand on it holstered might have been a better idea. I wasn't there so I don't know.

Hey guys the dude didn't shoot the dog. If he felt threatened he should have gotten prepared. (I was a Boy Scout too.)

[joab]

If a dog is carrying it's tail high and wagging it rather slowly, along with other body language, I would take it as a threat, or a "warning" from the dog.A high tail is generally not a threat, straight or low is threatening. Makes sense if you think about it

[Ira Aten]

The real problem is, some thoughtless and neglectful dog owner is letting their dog roam around loose when it should be either behind a fence, on a leash, or within the property.

If not, the dog is at best a nuisance, and a potential threat, if you were in a public area and it's owner was not IMMEDIATELY within reach of this dog.

I was in the nearest big city a few years ago visiting a friend, and a huge dog "got loose" from the back of a new neighbors yard, and it ran across the yard then across the Cul-de-Sac, and into the street, headed in a straight bee line directly for me. This particular pooch, was growling, snarling, and preparing to jump my me.

(I don't recall the exact breed, as I was busy trying to keep from crapping in my pants, wussy that I am)

Anyway, I was not carrying a pistol or I would have shot him dead as possible.

Had it been a kid he was after, it would have at minimum mauled the hell out of the kid. The dog was some sort of a cross of a lab, rotweiller, mongrel, big-assort of dog.

I don't know if it could have been "fended off with a limb" since I didn't have a limb within immediate reach, nor any type of chain saw with which to cut one for that purpose. Nor, did I have time to procure a "limb" as this dog was running flat out for me, and I was not expecting a dog attack.

So the only thing I could do, is take off my hat, and outstreach my hat toward the dog and held it out toward his face (an old trick which works with SOME dogs which is supposed to confuse them) and simply prayed it would work.

Luckily, acting like I was handing him my hat confused this particular dog, and he backed off a step or two as it scared him, just long enough for the owner to come out of the garage and get his dog to quit threatening attack.

But if I did have a gun with me, I would have unloaded on it, and then reloaded and unloaded again, in order to be absolutely certain, the dog was dead, dead, dead. My point is, a dog approaching you can attack you before you even have time to say the word "Spit".

If there is not a leash law in your county or city, you may want to lobby for one. Nothing is worse than some jerk letting his dogs roam based on the assumption the dog will act the same when out wandering , as when they are at home. They don't. I have had numerous goats killed by domestic dogs (my place is fenced with field net-wire) "out jogging with their owners" off leash, who dig up under my fence, and kill my goats for the fun of it.

A coyote will eat the animal, a dog kills it by tearing out the throat, and then they leave it uneaten, as they are not killing for food, they are killing for fun.

No sir, you are not a wuss for pulling the gun on a loose dog that looked like a pit bull, or cross, or any other cross breed, at all. You were simply smart to prepare and defend yourself due if you felt threatened, because the dog's owner was not keeping the dog where it belongs. (That is, unless you were trespassing on the owners property, which I bet your weren't as it sounds like you were walking on a public street)

Otherwise, the dog's owner is a negligent, pompous individual with no regard for the well being of anyone other than him, or herself who would rather their doggie have fun, than for you or your children, to be able to walk down a public street in a relatively safe environment.

[High Planes Drifter]

I drew on a dog once. It was going to attack my small dog so I pulled; the owner was on his front porch watching. It wasnt the first time he let his dog run loose, and it actually came after me and my dog once before. The owner started screaming(read: begging) me not to shoot his dog. I told him I didnt want to, but I wasnt going to have his large dog destroy my Jack Russell. His dog looked like a Chow mix. After that incident no more problems with his dog.
As to the original post, IMO you overeacted a bit scince the dog didnt give reason for you to believe it was viscious. That being said, I wouldnt beat myself up over it. No one saw you do it, and the dog isnt talking:)

[1wildbill]

A high tail is generally not a threat, straight or low is threatening. Makes sense if you think about it

I am no expert, but the dogs that I have seen threatening, either each other, or a human, have held their tails as high as they would go and "wagged" them very slowly, hair on back up, growling and canines showing. Moving very slowly and deliberetly. (Posturing and making themselves look as large and as menacing to each other as possible.) If two dogs act like this towards each other usually all hell breaks loose before you can blink, and they go at it. Happened in front of me less than a month ago. A "fear biter" may have their tail tucked, a sign of submission, before they bite, or show little if any sign. Sometimes a dog that's not a "fear biter" will attack another dog, or human, without showing much, or again, any prior warning. Just a raised, wagging tail is not enough to go on. My male dog holds his tail high whenever he goes on alert now, at the command "watch", no wagging. That has just been the behavior I have observed in the last 55 years or so. (I do list dogs as one of my hobbies.)

I am not afraid of dog's, love them. A cocker spaniel bit my face when I was a kid with no warning, in fact I had just petted him, he turned as if to walk away and the next thing I saw was the inside of his throat. If a strange dog shows interest in me, in a non-threatening way, I offer them the back of my weak hand fist to smell, let them come to me, do not look them directly in the eye and then let things take their course, usually they will show behavior we would call "friendly" or just pretty much ignore you. If I can't "read" them I will not look at them directly in the eye, a sign of aggression, and try to act as if I am disregarding them.

But sometimes your "gut" does tells you differently, I just wouldn't make a call on the original poster's situation. I wasn't there.

I think that when we say that dog's do something for "fun" that we are putting human feelings on to a non-human. All dog's came from wolves and the deep instinct is to kill other animals. Just like I have seen cats kill birds, mice, etc., I have seen dog's kill all sorts of critters. Dogs and cats sometimes eat their prey, and sometime's not. I think it is just nature. They do it because they are hard-wired to kill. Yes, we are too I beleive, but thousands of years of "training" have tought most of us not to act on that instinct towards each other, in most situations. We are just a bit more evolved than other animals. Some will argue that, but it's just IMHO.

"When firearms go, all goes. We need them every hour."--George Washington
NRA & TSRA Member For The Rest Of My Life, Texas CHL

[joab]

A "fear biter" may have their tail tucked, a sign of submission, before they bite, Not talking about a tucked tail which is a sign of fearfulness
. Aggression is usually signaled by a low straight ruffed tail.
As you said a high tail only means that they are alerted to something.
By itself it means nothing but warrants watching

[Sgt Stevo]

mabe the guy with the goats needs a gaurd dog. That would solve the jogging dog killing spree.

Dogs will have there tail high, if they are not afraid. LIke a well trained k-9.

How does half this crap have anything to do with an mutt walking down a street. And a guy looking for a reason to use his gun. My dogs dont get out for the same reason they are insured.

But most dogs, are not a danger. Mine can kill you. No doubt. But they can play all day. at my three year olds school as well. We do demos. This thread is not about leash laws or kids being eaten by coyotes. Or If it is ok to let your dog run loose.

I am against all the above. Its about, did this guy, respond to a fear in the right way. No, if you want to be tactical, and have something to post about . Enlist, I did twenty and have lots of good storys.

I dont post them, because no one cares, I dont care. One guy stuck his hat out, good for you. the dog was postering. Pumping three reloads in it, Silly, and how do you know it would attack a kid? You dont, but you took the right action. Had that dog nailed you, you could have taken him to the cleaners, and snapped the dogs neck. Dont be a sissy.....

[PinnedAndRecessed]

there may be some cerebral problems because of their breeding

My ex wife, exactly.

[Pilgrim]

Whatever. My point is simply the AKC, and their SFB's 'happy' judges, are directly responsible for the stupid pitbulls out there, that should be put down.

By requiring 'traits' that aren't in the breed, read, look like a greyhound, but you are a pit, they so screw up the breed that they should experience the results of their preverted standards. Let the judges, and the dogs get in the same ring...

Or better yet, everytime a akc registered pit attacks someone, I'm going to find a group of lawyers that love dogs, and, we'll sue the AKC for the actions of the dogs, they caused to be breed.
The 'American Pit Bull' is not a recognized American Kennel Club breed.

The breeds they do recognize that are often confused with pit bulls are the American Staffordshire Terrier, the Bull Terrier, and the Staffordshire Terrier. You can probably throw in a Boxer as one earlier poster mentioned.

The American Kennel Club does not set breed standards. The standards they do enforce come from the national breed clubs. For every recognized AKC breed, there is a national breed club. Since the American Kennel Club recognizes 150 breeds, there are close to that many national breed clubs.

To be a licensed AKC judge, you have to be a breeder of the breed you initally apply to be licensed to judge. You have to have produced champions in that breed. Amateurs need not apply.

Having been a breeder, a judge will have his or her opinion what the ideal dog of the breed should look like compared to the breed standards. As you all know, opinions are like another bodily part, everyone has one.

I suggest if you have a complaint about how the American Pit Bull Terrier is being bred, you stop trashing the American Kennel Club and take your complaint to the club that sets the standards and the organization that licenses the judges that enforces those standards.

Pilgrim - long time breeder and exhibitor of Whippets and Longhaired Dachshunds through the AKC.

[1wildbill]

For some "expert" information on reading a dog's body language:

http://www.petfinder.org/journal/docs/CanineBody.pdf

And not to trash The American Pit Bull, which is generally referred to as a "Pit" by the people that cause the trouble, it is not a recognized breed by the AKC. Heard "gang-banger wannabes" talk about breeding a pit and a chow, "they be a good fightin' dog". The term "Pit" is generally used very loosely by the scum that just want to have the baddest dog on the block for no better reason than a drive-by shooting, with illegal guns of course. The AKC has nothing to do with the breeding and bad training of "Pits".

[Sgt Stevo]

Its not the Am-staff breeders that are breeding the street trash pits. Its the backyard breeders.

Working dog trainers and the show types neve really see eye to eye.

But at I know, they care about there pups..

[panzermk2]

I love this hole tail thing. What if the damn dog has a bobbed tail like most pits?

Let me think, yeah thats it glue an extension on the end so you tell what the dogs thinking

[fritz1]

I have been in my current house 10 years, and had my three German Shepards 10, 9 and eight years old, they got out twice once because the electric meter guy left two gates open one to the back yard and one to the front

the other time was because some POS kid broke one of the pickets to my fence and my female is skinny enough to go though it, luckily I was right there when she ran out only to sniff this little dog some guy was walking and he panicked thinking she was going to eat him

So other than those two times in almost 11 years, no I am not one of those irresponsible dog owners that let thier dogs roam regularly, because I love those dogs more than life, my oldest male saved my life once and will protect small children with his life, and I don't want them hit by a car or having some panicking or dog phobic indivisual shoot my dog without reason, THIS is not directed at the original poster since he was just being overly cautious

Inspite of my carefullness and strict policy of keeping my dogs indoors exept for play and going to do thier business there are a few little brats next to us and a couple of other houses with kids that don't live there permenantly who get a rise out of antagonizing my dogs with sticks at the fence and pine cone throwing when I am not home just to hear the dogs go crazy at the living room window.

Well if my dogs jumped the fence because they are tired of the POS and got his throat I am sure I would be sued very quickly, no one is going to blame those kids, particularly thier parents who are to buisy yaping or drinking thier wonderful cold beers, because thier kids can do no wrong they are addorable good little kids who got chewd by those vicious German shepards next door, no one will blame them or thier parents for letting thier kids roam from sunrise to sunset with no supervision, NONE WHAT SO EVER

The truth is my neighborhood is full of dogs almost every other house has dogs and there are dogs roaming the streets all day all night with no supervision never have I been attacked or even felt like I was going to be attacked exept once this dog growled at me and I just stumped my foot and he backed off it was a Saint Bernard, no one has ever been biten that I heard of they just like to hang in the parks and by the creeks, is it ok? absolutely not.

I am sure it happens and it will happen again, did he over react? I think so but that was his judgement, there are people who do different things, I hear guys talking and bragging about hurting an animal just to show thier superiority or just to shoot somthing because they can or finding an excuse to do it I am not against defending ones self from a real dog attack, most of the time they are spooked by minimal force or gesture exept extreme ones

My point is don't freak out every time you see a dog walking towards you or even runing, most of them just want a sniff or even a high there good doggie, most of us can sense agression and fear, so can they I keep my dogs on thier property, just keep the mean kids away from the same and bring the dog loving ones for a real good play of tug o war because my dogs love kids and I hope they remain that way

Sorry for the long post.

[joab]

What if the damn dog has a bobbed tail like most pits?All the Pits I know have full tails

Another myth put to rest

[Jamie C.]

Okay... haven't posted on this thread, 'cause...well...y'all seem to be having too much fun and are pretty amusing.

That said, I'm a dog owner. Got 4 of 'em. Big one is 115 pounds, the little one is about 55. All 4 would have you for lunch if you come onto my property uninvited.

Here's the thing though; TN has a leash law. It applies to both dogs AND cats. Meaning the owner is responsible for the animal and any destruction it commits. Human, property... it doesn't matter.

So I keep my animals up and supervised. They don't get loose unless I'm right there.

Also, I've shot and killed 2 dogs in the last 10 years for aggressive behavior. This was after talking to the owners. Neither did what they needed to do. (keep the animal penned up and off my property ).

For what it's worth, 3 rounds of 12 ga. 00 magnum buckshot will flatten an 85 pound dog at 20 yards, no problem. No. 8 shot will, to my surprise, kill dead-out, a 50 pound dog at 15 yards. ( this was actually a surprise to me. Figured to sting him and send him home. Didn't know I'd need to dig a damned hole... :rolleyes: )

Point being?

The owner is responsible for the dog. That's the beginning and end of it.

It gives me reason to draw, I will.

It gives me reason to shoot.... I most certainly will.

Only person that can prevent either of these two events is the animal's owner.

So, to wrap it all up, I don't blame the OP for his decision... as others have said, I wasn't there.

I do blame the pet owner for even allowing the situation to occur, however, laws or no laws, and would expect the same treatment of any of my own dogs, should it happen.


J.C.

P.S. I grew up working a farm, where we had to kill wild dogs on a regular basis. There's been several times that we've had stacks of dead canines taller than I was . You should see what that many feral dogs can do to a herd of cattle. It ain't pretty and it ain't cheap.

Keep your damned dogs up. They DON'T have a right to run loose, I don't care what your local laws say.

J.

P.P.S. No. 3 is on the verge. Folks next door won't keep their boxer up. The folks the other side of me have already been backed into their house once by him.

That won't happen here unless the animal is bullet-proof.

[EBF]

Since were on the subject of dogs...

I work in a pretty crappy area of town.

I pull up to my office yesterday morning, open my car door, grab something off the passenger seat, then look to my left as I'm about to get out of the car, and about 2 feet from my face is a stray pit bull staring me in the face, just standing there. He did not show any signs of aggressive beahvior at the moment, he was just checking me out.

I've been around dogs my whole life, I think one of the most important things is to not panic...do not show fear. So we just sat there for a second while I evaluated things. I carry a gun in my glove box. I decided to put my hand out so he can identify me...I figured worst case scenario, if he grabs my hand I can still reach my glove box.

He sniffs my hand...then licks my hand...then jumps up on my lap and licks my face...and then tries to get in the car with me.

He did the same thing this morning. I got out of the car, crouched down, and he ran over to me and I petted him for a minute.

Great dog, very friendly.

I'm considering taking him in, but I know the wife would shoot that down.

[1wildbill]

Its not the Am-staff breeders that are breeding the street trash pits. Its the backyard breeders.

Agree. Just would change to read: street trash backyard breeders.

The owner is responsible for the dog. That's the beginning and end of it.

Agree. 100%. It's the trashy owners that breed/cause the trashy dogs, pit or whatever. The owners are the ones that deserve to be shot. Owning a "large" dog is a responsibility like owning a gun.

I love this hole tail thing. What if the damn dog has a bobbed tail like most pits?

Pit "trash" owners that fight their dogs crop their ears, usually not tails. Why would they? A fighting dog won't grab another's tail. If the tail is cropped there is still enough left to indicate their attitude. The hole is right below the tail.

I am going to get on another thread and discuss guns. I think we have beat this one to death. Agree?

[P95Carry]

I think we have beat this one to death. Agree?I am of that opinion also - plus we have had many many threads where dogs are the subject and in the end they deteriorate into a canine slugging match ;)

The thread has served it's purpose IMO, and some.