[Live Free Or Die]

I have been developing a plan to arm myself at home by keeping inexpensive handguns cipher-locked in a few strategic locations: 1 in the garage, 1 in the kitchen, 1 in the bedroom, 1 in the bathroom, and so on. My plan was to buy cheap but reliable semi's, so I started looking at Hi Points. I've been pleased with my Hi Point 9mm carbine, and I was hoping to find a similar dollar/performance ratio with the pistols. Certainly they're cheap: under $150 for a 9mm, .40S&W or .45ACP, all of which I'd consider as a good emergency defense round.

Unfortunately my rudimentary plan was taken off course when I found out Hi Point pistols are not legal in Maryland. Maryland requires pistol manufacturers to supply the state police with the case from a fired round as part of its worthless ballistic fingerprinting program. Absurd.

What I'm looking for is recommendations for suitable alternatives. I'd consider semi-autos or revolvers, but they need to be cheap, since I'll eventually need at least 4 or 5 of them. I've heard the "just go buy a used revolver" advice, but I'd really prefer to get 5 of the same kind of gun. That would be harder to do if I'm limited to the used market. I'm looking in the $200 and under range. Reliability and ease of use count for a lot.

[Live Free Or Die]

A few more bits of info that might help answer my question:

- Does NOT need to be compact/light
- Acceptable calibers are .38/.357, 9mm, .40S&W, and .45ACP
- Intended for emergency HD; I'm in the bathroom/kitchen/garage and an intruder enters my house. I need access to a nearby firearm, but my preferred HD guns (shotgun and pistol-caliber carbine) aren't handy.
- Since I was considering Hi Point, I'm obviously not snobby about brands. :)
- $200 is the limit, but $150 would be a lot more comfortable for me

[wbond]

Firestorm is cheap, yet high quality, in my experience. The exception being its thin finish, which I don't find to be a problem. Bersa makes Firestorm, which is then imported by Firestorm and assembled in USA.

A nice Firestorm .380 costs $250 at my local gun store. Recently they had one on sale for $214. A nice Firestorm 9mm costs about $300.

I don't like Bersas for concealment because the recurve trigger guard has sharge corners. The Firestorms are the same guns with a rounded trigger guard that is much better for concealment.

Taurus are excellent in every way, in my experience, but cost about $100 more.

[cookekdjr]

Call J&G Sales and order 5 heavy-barreled S&W Model 10 revolvers.
Stoke them with the 158gr LSWCHP +p FBI load, and you are set.
-David

[only1asterisk]

I think it would be easier and cheaper to carry one or two guns around than hide 5 in lock boxes all around the house.

David

[Live Free Or Die]

These are meant to be last-resort type of firearms, when I happen to not be carrying. I don't always feel like carrying everywhere I go in my house, and sometimes the clothes I'm wearing are not conducive to carrying. Furthermore, these guns are intended to be available to anyone in my family, and not everyone in my family is going to be carrying everywhere, all the time.

[nitesite]

In no particular order:

Polish Makarov 9x18 in like-new unissued condition $129.99 each

http://www.southernohiogun.com/surplushandguns.html

S&W Sigma 40V .40 S&W 14-shot for $229.00

http://www.kyimports.com/sw.htm#s&w

or request a catalog from www.cdnninvestments.com ; they have a LOT of police turn ins and other surplus handguns at some very affordable prices.

Oh, I don't own a Mak or a 40V but I was trying to stay close to your budget constraints.

[only1asterisk]

Understood. I've got house (and car) guns, but not one in every room.

David

[Live Free Or Die]

I didn't mean to imply that I want a gun in every room...just in strategic zones. The bedroom gun will probably cover the entire upstairs, except possibly the bathroom. The kitchen gun covers the kitchen, living room, family room, dining room, etc. The garage is sort of its own separate area, so I think it ought to have its own gun. Bathrooms...well, I might decide to put one gun in every bathroom. :)

BTW, thanks for all the suggestions so far. I had forgotten about the C&R pistols in 9x18mm. Is this round roughly on par with a 9x19 luger?

[only1asterisk]

The Makarov is closer to .380.

David

[poppy]

Star B or BM 9mm pistol. Well made, $200 or less.

Polish Tokarev although I really don't know a whole lot about the ballisitics.

[bentwrench]

The taurus pt's get my vote,i'm past 500 rounds through my pt145 without a single hiccup.its cheap,well built,easy to shoot,and holds 10+1 rounds.alot to like for 325.00 bucks
the bentwrench

[Srigs]

A Hi Point would work real well.

A Kel-tec P11 or a K-frame revolver would be good choices also.

[chaim]

I've heard the "just go buy a used revolver" advice, but I'd really prefer to get 5 of the same kind of gun. That would be harder to do if I'm limited to the used market.

Well, there are enough used revolvers out there that it wouldn't be too hard to go used and still find 5 of the same thing. If you want to go a little faster, and/or more easily buy the cheapest/best deal you can find, you can go with different model revolvers a little more easily than with autos. Any S&W and Taurus revolver will have identical manuals of arms, down to the cylinder release. Whether it is a S&W M10, M15, M65, M19, or Taurus 82, 65, or 66 they will be nearly identical. Just go with the same size (K-frame, L-frame, J-frame) and the same barrel length and you'll be fine.

[kmrcstintn]

used Taurus PT (Millenuim) series(9mm, .40, .45) and used Kel-Tec P-11's (9mm) are usually under $250;

older used Taurus 85 (.38 snubby) and their larger framed .38's and sometimes .357's can be had for under $250;

other brands for revolvers: Charter Arms, Rossi

[chaim]

When I posted I only wrote what I did about used revolvers and I forgot to add my other suggestions.

Close to your stated price range, but in a lesser caliber (.380), you can get new Bersa Thunders in .380 for near your range (last I noticed they started around $220-250). Those are new, accurate and reliable guns in that new price range.

I think you can still get Makarovs for about $200-250 retail. Good reputation for reliability and the 9x18mm Mak round gives a bit more power than .380 (it basically splits the difference between the .380 and 9mm). I know you can also get the Hungarian PA63s in your range (right this moment on Gunbroker I saw one with a "buy it now" price of $190)- they are supposed to be reliable and are in 9x18Mak but their reputation for terrible triggers is something to consider.

If you are willing to save a little longer to raise your limit (or to buy spread out over a longer time) you can still get new Rossi and Taurus revolvers for under or just over $300 around here. I've seen the Taurus 85 and the J-frame Rossi in blued steel for just under $300 recently and the Taurus 82 is within $5-10 of the $300 mark. For just a little more you can get their M65 .357mag.

[ugaarguy]

Ok, here are a few suggestions that have gotten positive reviews from actual owners here on THR (guns only, I make no claims on the sellers);
Star BM 9mm $160
http://www.militarygunsupply.com/shop/item.asp?itemid=FISTBM,
Bulgarian Makarov $150-$170
http://www.kyimports.com/amt.htm#Bulgarian,
Kel-Tec P-11 $230
http://www.kyimports.com/fmj.htm#HK
Beretta 96 w/ night sights $310
http://www.kyimports.com/beretta.htm#Beretta

I also second the order 5 used S&W model 10s from J&G sales. Those are a few ideas. CDNN investments, KY Imports, and www.budgunshop.com all seem to have good new gun prices.

[Live Free Or Die]

Wow, thanks for all the suggestions everyone. The Star 9MM certainly looks tempting at $160. I could even buy 6 for $920 -- although I'd have to convince my FFL to buy them all at once, and then dole them out to me 1 per month for 6 months (stupid MD 1-per-month law!!).

[grimjaw]

Does Maryland law allow concealed carry inside your own home? If it does, it really is more sensible to carry that way rather than leave four loaded guns in the house, regardless of whether or not they are hidden or strategically placed. Instead of spending $600 on four guns (I'm assuming you meant $150-200 per gun, and not that much for a total of four guns), you could invest in one or two. If you're going to have that many around, it makes sense for all of them to be the same. You don't want to have four different calibers and manual of arms in a crisis.

To answer your question about the kinds of guns, I don't know what's on the Maryland list (link?) so some of these might not be permissible.

Autoloaders:
- Makarov PM in .380/9x18, can still be found in your price range.
- KelTec P3AT in .380, but it might have to be used.
- Ruger P-series, but at that price the finish will probably be crap and you'd want to have it checked for safety and reliability before trusting it.

Revolvers:
- Used Smith & Wesson K frame. You can find a few models chambered for .38 Special, maybe one or two in .357 Magnum.
- Used Ruger Security Six.
- Used Taurus, plenty of models available.

On a $600 budget, my personal (uneducated and untested) recommendation would be one handgun and one shotgun. You can get a reliable revolver or autoloader from Ruger or S&W for $300-400, and a Remington 870 shotgun for $200-300. Carry the handgun, use it to get to the shotgun.

Just my two cents.

jmm

[rchernandez]

Get a Keltec 3AT to carry in your pocket at all times (make it a part of a keychain, if that helps) then add a few s&w k-frames (CDNN sells model 10, 64 and 65) to "hide" around the house. You want to get a "new" Keltec! The k-frames are okay used.

[Live Free Or Die]

Does Maryland law allow concealed carry inside your own home? If it does, it really is more sensible to carry that way rather than leave four loaded guns in the house, regardless of whether or not they are hidden or strategically placed.

I don't believe there are any restrictions on concealed carry inside one's home. Not in Maryland, and I would think not anywhere that hasn't banned handguns outright.

I'd prefer not to carry everywhere in my house at all times. Stashing a number of guns in cipher locked containers isn't a big deal IMO.

[swampdog]

Call J&G Sales and order 5 heavy-barreled S&W Model 10 revolvers.
Stoke them with the 158gr LSWCHP +p FBI load, and you are set.
-David

+1 These run $189-$200. What a deal.

[Technosavant]

I might suggest, if you are worried about home invaders, beefing up your home security before sinking hundreds of dollars into multiple firearms and safes for various points in the home. Wireless anunciators for the driveway, front porch, back patio/gate, and so on lets you know when somebody approaches. Good and sturdy locks, doors, windows, and frames will help keep bad people outside and will also protect your home when you aren't there. Motion activated lights for nightime. Shrubbery with lots of thorns to keep people away from the house. If you are really feeling paranoid, put a very sturdy and lockable fire door in the hallway leading to the bedrooms.

The solution isn't always more guns; sometimes it is putting money into more passive security options. I can understand having one or two stashed in places other than the main gunsafe, but if you are worried about people busting in while you are in the shower, stop by Home Depot or Lowe's, not the gun store.

[Jkwas]

Call J&G Sales and order 5 heavy-barreled S&W Model 10 revolvers.
Stoke them with the 158gr LSWCHP +p FBI load, and you are set.
-David
I would say the same, but I think they're all gone. Maybe they'll get another batch. They are sweet guns.
Taurus revolvers are good inexpensive guns.;)

[chaim]

I think I'm another who will suggest to Live Free Or Die that he should consider simply carrying when home. First, it is easier (and cheaper) than stashing a gun all over the house. Second, it is practice should either MD become CCW legal or if you should move. Also, if you travel a lot it is practice if you get a non-resident CCW permit from another state. It isn't that much of a bother, get a small and light gun and IWB it is very comfortable and easy (you can even get a tuckable holster if you are worried about spooking visitors). Pocket carry with a small auto or a J-frame is even easier. Just don't get something too comfortable at first- until you are used to checking for your gun before you leave you need something you won't forget about so you don't accidentally leave the house while still carrying your gun (for non-MDers, MD is VERY much not a CCW legal state for most people).


although I'd have to convince my FFL to buy them all at once, and then dole them out to me 1 per month for 6 months (stupid MD 1-per-month law!!).Or you can fill out the application for "collector" status and not be subject to the one a month limit (something I refuse to do- that refusal keeps me from spending too much money :uhoh: ).

Does Maryland law allow concealed carry inside your own home?MD law does not allow CCW but it does allow you to carry, concealed or not, in your place of residence and outside on your own property (though if you ask, the state police will strongly encourage you to carry concealed if you are outdoors on your property- spook your neighbors by the sight of your gun and they may call the police, and even though you'd be legal it is a headache for all involved). I carry in my place of residence often, it is just necessary to be aware of it so I remember to remove the gun from my pocket or remove the IWB holster before I leave the house.

I don't know what's on the Maryland list (link?) Here is a link to the handgun roster: http://www.mdsp.org/services/handgun.asp

Additionally, if you buy a new gun it MUST come with a fired shell casing from the factory or it isn't MD legal. That is a consideration when buying any new gun on the net. Some manufacturers (like Kel-tec) won't provide it at all, so for the past several years new guns from those makers have not been MD legal. Many other manufacturers do provide casings, but only to MD and NY dealers (the two states that require it) so buying online from an out of state source may result in a gun without the casing (even if from a brand that provides casings to MD dealers) and thus a non-MD legal new gun. Even makes that supply casings with all guns sold nationwide (Ruger and I think S&W) could be troublesome if the dealer doesn't send it with the gun. So, any Marylander buying new online needs to ask the dealer about the casing. I usually just go used when buying online.

Get a Keltec 3ATNot MD legal. Not only does Kel-tec not provide a shell casing with their guns (so they aren't legal new) but the P3AT and P32 are not on the approved guns roster (thus they aren't even legal used here).

[TonyB]

If if you do carry at home(as I do)it's always good to have back ups strategically placed...
I would go with revolvers though......if these guns are going to be just sitting around,you don't have to worry if it will work when you need it....Plus same manual of arms for all your back ups is good.You can get s and w mod 10's pretty cheap..or even Rossi or Taurus 357's too.I got a Rossi 357 for a knock around, leave in a drawer kind of thing.....but it worked so well ,I use it at IDPA.....good luck in your search....
It is my goal to have a gun every room,and one on me at all times......good plan,but finances tend to be an issue....someday....;)

[LanEvo`]

I've heard the "just go buy a used revolver" advice, but I'd really prefer to get 5 of the same kind of gun. That would be harder to do if I'm limited to the used market. I'm looking in the $200 and under range. Reliability and ease of use count for a lot.Not if you pick the right platform.

There are TONS of used S&W revolvers on the market. And all the K- and L-frame models feel and work pretty much the same. Most models have adjustible rear sights, you so can make sure they all shoot to the same P.O.I.

If you want 5 identical H.D. guns that are "reliable and easy to use," then you can't beat a set of K- or L-frame Smiths chambered in .357mag/.38spl. And the .357mag is a pretty serious H.D. caliber.

[hobbyokie]

Having just purchased a Hi-Point 9MM for range and home defense, I can say that this weapon has performed well. Priced in the range of $115 to $140 around here, at least in my experience, this would be a good asset. The .40 is just a little more, but since I carry an XD40 SC, did not need that one.

Also, have a S&W 642 .38 Special with +P ammo that is available also for home defense.

[Live Free Or Die]

Having just purchased a Hi-Point 9MM for range and home defense, I can say that this weapon has performed well. Priced in the range of $115 to $140 around here, at least in my experience, this would be a good asset.

Yup, the Hi-Point was my first idea. Can't beat the price, and they seem reliable. Unfortunately they're not legal to buy in MD. :cuss:

I do appreciate the many replies in this thread. Thanks to you guys I have lots of new ideas to go off and research. My birthday is coming up next month, so I need to get my act together and decide what I want. :evil:

[runninmike]

I have found some nice used/excellant revolvers for similar purposes all for under $180 each.
1 was from a local gunshow, and 2 were from a local gunshop.

1st....2.75" Ruger speed-six .357mag.
2nd...4" M15 S&W .38spc.
3rd....2.125" SP101 Ruger .357mag.
Good luck in your choices.
Best-Mike

[gopguy]

So much of this thread reminds me why I left Maryland in 1989:cuss: They were starting to ban guns then......sigh:fire: However Ohio had its problems too, we did not get CCW until 2004 and that was a fight.

I think there are still enough police trade in revolvers out there made by Smith and Wesson in .38 special that you can do buy 5 over a period of time without worrying about it. Hard to beat the quality of a Smith and Wesson or Colt revolver. KY Imports, CDNN, K&G often advertise these and have for years.

[PX15]

The most "inexpensive" pistol I would use for hidaway purposes is the Star BM.. Probably cost you around $150.
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a73/Laserlips/100_4825.jpg

For twice the money, (but in my mind more than twice the pistol) you might consider the Bersa Thunder 9 (Ultra Compact). My B/UC retailed for like $440 or such, but it was only $305 + tax.

My Bersa has been amazing, and actually shoots just as well (and accurately) as my Sig P239. With the 13rd. mag I have 14rds available and I like that in a home defense pistol.
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a73/Laserlips/100_4897.jpg

Either pistol will do the job.

Best Wishes,

JP

[Skeptic]

Just got back from the gun store down in St. Leonard MD (right outside NAS Pax River). I was looking at buying a couple more pistols. While there, I noticed that they had in stock: the HI POINT .45, .40, and the 9mm. So call them up and order all you want....

If you need info, contact "The Tackle Box".