Just got through watching Deliverance!

[Rigby470]

And I was reminded why I am so adamant about carrying my handgun on camping trips!

But I got to thinking about the whole issue of water. What would you do to keep your firearm/ammo dry, but yet still be able to quick draw on some toothless, brain-damaged, genetically-deprived butt pirate?

[joab]

I watched it also, unfortunately I was reminded of my roots.
Which explains why I have always carried a gun while camping

[real_name]

Glock.

Plastic floats. :D

['Card]

I do a lot of kayaking. I load my gear on my 'yak, paddle and fish until it starts to get dark, and then I pull over and make camp. I just carry my pistol in a holster on my right thigh in a MOLLE dropleg platform. It gets splashed a lot, and immersed occasionally, but it doesn't seem to mind. I just make sure to give it a good cleaning every night. Cleaning your gun by the light of a campfire after a long day on the river is a uniquely satisfying experience, in my opinion.

I used to carry a Glock. Now I carry an XD-45ACP. Neither one has seemed to have any problems or performance issues with this. I generally seal my rifles in a long dry bag (check Northwest River Supply for those) when I kayak in to a remote hunting spot, but with pistols I haven't found that to be necessary.

As for ammo... two mags of it get dipped and dunked just like the pistol. The rest of the box is usually in a ziploc in my pack. Never had a problem there, either.

Oh, and as a native West Virginian I'd just like to take this chance to point out that Deliverance was filmed in Tennessee - not (as is often alleged) West Virginia. :)

[wbond]

You know I'm kidding about that, right?

Seriously though, I'd read a report on ammo water proofing. I used to have a strong interest in 9x18 pistols and still do somewhat. Much of the foreign made 9x18 ammo is water proofed around primer and case mouth with laquer to keep water out in the wet Russian, Czech, Polish, etc weather.

I read about a test where a guy submerged some laquer water proofed 9x18 ammo and also some American made non laquered 9x18 ammo in a bucket of fresh water.

He tested some ammo each day for 3 days. All ammo fired after 3 days submerged in fresh water. I suppose that means the laquered ammo could be submerged longer and still work. However, the test was only a 3 day test.

Bottom line is don't worry about hillbillies getting at your bottom. It you still worry, then put 50 rounds of your ammo in a bucket of water and then try to shoot one round each hour after submerging. After 24 hours you'll need some sleep. So then just test every 12 hours. You'll probably find the ammo works fine, even after 3 days of submersion.

This is a fresh water test only. Salt water would likely ruin ammo much faster and would not be good for your gun. If you want to test in salt water, clean your gun as soon as possible after each test shot.

I don't know, but I suspect that ammo submerged in salt water up to 24 hours would still work, but would rust your gun (unless you cleaned it right away). However, if toothless hill billies are trying to pull down your pants, you won't care about a rusting gun.

Ammo is water proof enough. Just make sure you dump water out of the barrel first, then defend your rear-end.

Alternatively, you could buy one of those Pelican gun cases that's guaranteed water-proof down to 30 feet. I've got one for my digital camera. I don't worry about my guns that much.

[neil minor]

'Card,

Are you sure the movie was filmed in Tennessee? I thought it was filmed in Georgia. Anyway, the movie was "situated" in Georgia.

I'm not sure what the piece is called, but I believe it fits onto the striker assembly of a Glock which makes it very reliable around water activities.

I carry when I go camping.

[joab]

the movie was filmed entirely in Georgia.
The book never mentions the true location

[wbond]

Quoting Joab: I watched it also, unfortunately I was reminded of my roots.
Which explains why I have always carried a gun while camping.

Reply from Wbond: Amen. It reminds me of my roots too. I'm a white collar type guy, but I grew up around rednecks and hill billies such that they were the majority. The violent majority.

They weren't sexually deviant (that I know of), but they were sure ignorant, violent, and proud of it. I still live in that type of area now. Yes, we have those types of idiots galore in Northern Oregon and Southern Washington State. They don't talk the same as rednecks in Georgia, but the attitude is the same. However, we also have good people too and I'm sure there are also good people in Georgia. I only mention GA because that's the setting of the movie.

As an adult, I had my neck broken in a car wreck, but am walking and working again, but will always be handicapped. I need every advantage I can get. My guns for example. I still run into those same rednecks from my youth and new ones to. Do you think they have any mercy on a handicapped person? I think you already know the answer to that.

The guns are a hobby to me, but also a necessity.

I know that a lot of the lawyers, landlords, and real estate agents carry guns around here. Even accountants and dentists. I just ran into my dentist in the gun store the other day. The point is that I'm not alone in the sense that the white collar types around here feel beseiged and threatened. In my case, it's worse due to being handicapped. However, as a handicapped person, I also enjoy some greater legal protections against assault or robbery. However those legal protections are all "after the fact" increased punishments for attackers. That doesn't help me because the criminals are to stupid to know the law. They don't know they'd get a stiffer sentence for attacking a handicapped person.

If it seems I'm confusing the difference between rednecks and criminals, that's because I don't see much difference. The rednecks I know are either criminals already, or possess the capacity to become criminals when the opportunity presents itself.

I used to live in the country. Now I live in the city. They both have criminal types and potentially dangerous people. They act different in some ways, but the common denominators of bad folks in country or city are ignorance, bully mentality, and the potential for violent behavior.

These type people are preditors, whether in country or city. They look for weak victoms. Can it be a cooincidence that no one has ever bothered me when I'm packing? I think that I feel more confident and it shows. So they find a more inviting target. Perhaps that is just cooincidence. Not sure.

[joab]

Uh Oh, you did it now

Now we're gonna have a long debate over the difference between white trash, rednecks and hillbillies.:)

I used to engage in those arguments.
I have since learned to listen to what the person says not how they say it

[wbond]

I'm not down on anyone because of how they talk, or what they look like, or wear they are from.

I'm only judging people by their behavior towards others. If that behavior is a combination of ignorance combined with a bully mentality, then I don't like them.

This applies regardless of color, regardless of where they are from, regardless of how they talk.

If they are friendly, decently behaved people, then they're good people whether in country or city.

My observations are based only on behavior towards others. i.e. - do they treat other people with a reasonable level of respect. That's all I ask from anyone.

If the word "redneck" bothers anyone, then substitute the word of your choice. However, I'm white, the community I live in and surrounding ones are white, and the trouble makers are white. So I thought the word "redneck" was appropriate. "White trash" would also have been appropriate. I've been tormented by these types my whole life. I think I've earned the right to use the word redneck or white trash. However, those words might mean other things to other people. So perhaps I should just use the phrase "bad people" from now on to be PC and avoid offending the innocent. I'm sorry if I offended innocent parties.

As a funny side note: My dad is a white collar worker too and so was my mom. They both used to rightly complain about bad behavior of the local "rednecks", but I never heard them say "white trash". My dad would have washed my mouth with soap, if I said "white trash". I guess for their generation "white trash" was to strong a phrase, but "redneck" was acceptable. I don't understand that. Never did.

I can well remember my friend and I after junior school with 30 of the "bad people" after us and trying to catch us. The "bad people's" behavior improved a little in high school, but not much. By high school there'd only be about 10 after us. The rest had grown up a bit. These are the same types who see a person alone and want to go pick on them and gang up on them, even as adults. These are the same types who see a person of a different color, or dressed different, or a handicapped person and then want to go bully them or even attack or rob them. These types of "bad people" exist in the country and the city.

[Rigby470]

OK, let's stay on track here. I want to discuss waterproofing your guns and ammo.

I figured ammo would be sealed enough to be reliable. Guns can operate with moisture, but don't let them sit too long without cleaning. Am I right so far?

I've often thought about keeping my handgun inside a ziplock bag. But a ziplock would prevent my ability to quick-draw on amorous hillbillies or other frisky varmints.

[_N4Z_]

movie was filmed in west virginia, irc. the actual river is in georgia, again irc.


sho got a purdy mouth.... :eek: <-- really just wanted an excuse to throw that line in the mix. :D

[helomech]

I live near houma, what part of Louisiana are you from?

[wbond]

They come in shiny, polished stainless, satin finish, and matte black. Stainless steel can rust. It's not rust proof. It's rust resistant. i.e. - it takes longer to rust, but can rust with neglect.

I know a lot of people like to keep their gun barrels totally dry because they are worried about oil fouling ammo, which is a valid concern.

However, I live in WA State where it rains 2/3 of the days of the year. So I have to have a more aggressive rust prevent attitude.

Hoppes #9 is a brand, not a product. I recently learned this. I used to think Hoppes was the brand and #9 was the product. NO. The brand is Hoppes #9.

There are many different Hoppes #9 solvents. I use two. I have the classic powder solvent that I use each time I clean the gun. I also have the copper and lead remover, which I use only occasionally (every 10th cleaning or so).

The powder solvent is mostly kerosene and it is also a rust inhibitor. It says right on the bottle to "annoint the bore" after cleaning to prevent rust. That means that after you've got the bore totally clean and run dry patches through it, then run one more patch through it with a bit of the #9 powder solvent on it. This prevents rust by leaving a very light oily kerosene residue in the barrel. It is OK to fire the gun with that very light residue in there.

The residue prevent rust even in regular steel barrel. In a stainless barrel, you are really well protected.

If I know I'm going to the shooting range, then I will run a clean dry patch through the bore to remove the dried on kerosene residue. However, when I carry for SD, I just leave the residue in there for protection from rust. If I have to fire a few mags in SD, the residue will not be a problem because it's much thinner than oil and is just coating the metal.

The reason I wipe out the residue before target shooting is that the barrel might foul within 50 - 75 rounds, if I leave the residue in before firing. If I wipe the barrel bone dry before firing (one dry patch is plenty), then I can shoot 200 rounds before the barrel fouls.

For self defense carry, I leave the residue in for rust protection. If I have to shoot, I know the barrel won't powder foul for at least 50 to 75 rounds, which is more than enough for SD.

There is NO danger of the residue fouling my ammo in a revolver because I only put residue in the barrel, not in the cylinder holes. I keep the cylinder holes dry. This is why I prefer stainless revolvers.

In an auto, there is a theoretical chance of fouling the first round in the chamber, but not the magazine. I'm running an experiment on that right now by leaving an auto handgun chambered for 3 months with the residue in the bore. Then I'll test fire it at the range. I don't see how it can foul the cartridge because the film is so thin in the barrel and chambor.

I can definately recommend the Hoppes #9 powder solvent LIGHT residue in the bore for revolvers for SD carry. I cannot say yet about autos since my test of autos is in progress. I think it will prove fine for autos too.

================================================

P.S. - the Hoppes #9 Copper and Lead remover is another animal entirely. It clearly says on that bottle NOT to leave any in the bore or anywhere else. It says to remove it all. I think it might damage bore if left in there. So after the Copper and Lead remover, which I only use occasionally, I then wipe dry with dry patch, then annoint bore with Hoppes #9 powder solvent.

A stainless revolver with an annointed bore seems the best for really wet conditions to me.

Does this help?

[_N4Z_]

Tallulah Gorge State Park, Clayton, GA

I remembered incorrectly. :uhoh: Above is where it was made.

[joab]

If the word "redneck" bothers anyone, then substitute the word of your choice.That's pretty much my point. just trying to stave off the almost certain thread drift over vocabulary.

The movie was filmed in Georgia
The beautifully-photographed film, shot entirely on location (in northern Georgia's Rabun County that is bisected by the Chattooga River), (http://www.filmsite.org/deli.html)

Ammo and guns are not as water sensitive as people think.

growing up I took many many canoe trips down the Econolocahatchee river.
Dad made many trips through the Glades
He always carried a pistol in a holster.
Going in was not at all a rare occurrence I never saw him take his gun off before jumping in.
I carried a rifle strapped to the thwart.
Never had any issues

[wbond]

Wild Bill Hickock was one of the greatest pistoleros in history.

According to the history channel, he used to fight a daily battle against moisture in his black powder revolvers.

Every morning he'd clean and reload his guns. That meant he was throwing his ammo away each morning. I guess that's the price he had to pay for reliablity from black powder in wet weather.

If you were on a white water trip lasting many days, why don't you keep most of your ammo in a water proof container, and then each evening, or each morning, throw away the 6 rounds in your revolver and reload from dry ammo you've kept in your water tight container?

I do this every two weeks myself, but I don't throw it away. I shoot it at the range. Same result though. My ammo is never all that old.

That's the last of my water proofing advice. I'm out of ideas.

[wbond]

Hey we just found a language common denominator. "Low lifes" is also a commonly used term in the Northwest. A more polite term actually. I should have just used that one in the first place.

We also say "scumbags" and "dirtbags" a lot too.

I think the reason "rednecks" offends some people is that it implies that the scumbags are white. However, in this case they are white and so am I. So I didn't think that should be a problem to tell it like it is.

However, I'll stick to low lifes, scum bags, and dirtbags in the future because those don't imply racial origin and won't offend anyone.

Low lifes: Is that politically correct enough for everyone?

[shermacman]

There are plenty of good waterproof bags for boating that work perfectly for guns, ammo, cell phones and wallets. I kayak in the winter, power boat in the summer. Part of the camping trip supplies are the fun decisions about which guns to bring. No excuse to be caught without a readily accessible, dry gun. Or phone, or wallet!

[joab]

Every morning he'd clean and reload his guns. That meant he was throwing his ammo away each morning. I guess that's the price he had to pay for reliablity from black powder in wet weather.
He actually fired those rounds as target practice. Which is why, some historians say, he was such a good marksman. Daily short session practices as opposed to long arduous less frequent practice making every shot count.

More side tracking.

Redneck is a term that many use to refer to themselves with pride.
To some it describes a self suficient less techniloically dependent lifestyle.
What some would refer to as a country boy.
The term was originally a derogratory term for Presbytarians

I promise that's it.

Modern ammo is not as affected by moisture as BP was.

Think of all the days long battles that have been fought in driving rain

[Coltdriver]

Thats interesting that you mention Deliverance, I took a coffee break and caught the part where the two hillbillies take the fellas for a trist in the woods.

I could not help thinking how unrealistic it was as the one fellow was tied to the tree and his giant chrome k bar was pulled from the sheath.

I would of stuck one of those fellows with that kbar before things got out of hand.

I'll take a knife close in to a weapon any day.

Anyway, onto keeping your powder dry I have a stainless revolver, I guess waxing up the rounds would do the trick or maybe using some ammo that is sealed against moisture to begin with.

[BigG]

Here's my take on Deliverance. (http://www.epinions.com/content_66690125444)

Thanks :)

[_N4Z_]

I could not help thinking how unrealistic it was as the one fellow was tied to the tree and his giant chrome k bar was pulled from the sheath.


Unrealistic perhaps for someone like you, but not for the indecisive "city boys" involved in that particular scene.

Never know how any person will a act/react in battle, until they are actually exposed first hand.

[MCgunner]

I have several mottos. Revolvers for for the outdoors and stainless is a good thing is one of them. Also, never go to east Texas without being armed and if you don't like hillbillies, stay out of Arkansas.....:D

Seriously, though, for actual USE, stainless is a good thing. I live by the bay and fish a lot. I always carry my Taurus alloy frame/stainless cylinder revolver when I'm out fishing. I would like an SP101 for that duty, but the Taurus is a lot lighter on the hip. I'm carrying concealed, IWB. When I'm REALLY out in the woods carrying open, it's usually the stainless Blackhawk in .45 colt. It has the power for any four legged critters as well as hillbillies (or drug growers or illegals or whatever it is you're worried about in your neck of the woods). Me, I don't worry about hillbillies in coastal Texas, just ex-cons lookin' for money the easy way. There's lots of not so upstanding citizens in this part of the country. You just never know. And, the .38 comes in handy when I catch a shark bigger than I wanna pick up without a little tranquilizer.

Now, I don't go around dunking my pistol/revolver ammo, but I duck hunt and my shotgun shells go under water a lot in my shell belt when wading in pot holes. They always fire, never had a dud. Sometimes I have to chunk 'em when they sit for a while and get rusty. They'll fail to extract from the gun if they have much rust on the "brass" part. Sure wish they still made Activ in steel shot.

[CAS700850]

The Navy Seals, at one point in their history, carried the Smith 66. Stainless revolver for ultimate reliability in a wet envirnment. Most modern ammo is sealed well enough to make waterproofing a non-issue. That said, I've always wondered about taking a bit of clear nail polish and brushing the juncture between bullet and case ass an additional precaution, as the primer is already sealed. I've always thought that a Smith 686/Ruger GP100 are perfect outdoors guns for everything except big predators (bears and such).

Back to the original thread, as a fairly young Boy Scout, I saw Deliverence on cable (uncut) with a few other scouts. Never again did any of us go camping/hiking/canoeing without a good sized knife, and we actually worked with each other to try and learn some knife/counter knife techniques. Yeah, I'm still traumitized to this day. Dueling Banjoes will give me chills to this day.

[Mal H]

To get the "where was it filmed" debate settled - it was filmed in north Georgia, Rabun County to be exact on the Chattooga River. How do I know? My mother was from there (she went to Young Harris College) and the filming was the "talk of the town". James Dickey became personna non grata around there for depicting the natives the way he did. I know for a fact they are nothing like he depicted; you won't find a warmer set of folks who would give a stranger the shirt off their backs if he needed it. The story is just that, a story not based on any facts or local personalities at all.

His biography (http://www.georgiaencyclopedia.org/nge/Article.jsp?id=h-452)states it well:

"A number of critics have faulted the novel for its stereotypical portrayal of North Georgia hillbillies, ignorance, inbreeding, and violence. An accurate portrayal was probably not Dickey's intention (he does camouflage place names). Rather, he explores several of his basic themes: the collision of civilized and uncivilized worlds, the struggle of the modern individual to maintain, or recover, connections with his primal nature, and the retreat of nature against the advances of science and technology."

[MCgunner]

Yeah, we all know that stereotype is only applicable around Hope, Arkansas...;)

[ball3006]

My camp is in east Texas. I have owned it for 2.5 years and hope to retire there next year, if not sooner. I always have my AK and a pistol with me. The locals stay away from me. The story behind this is when I first bought the property, I was told by several locals, that stopped by to see who the new owner was, that there were some folks "down the road" that were into drugs and guns........little did they know. They thought I was some city slicker when they found out I lived in Fort Worth........I wear camo to enhance the image too........hehehehe......nice folks though, now that they know me.......chris3

[vynx]

I have a waterproof camera bag - sort of like a verticle rectangular fanny pak.

Its plastic lined inside, waterproof and can hold a full size 1911 with a box of shells.

Not a quick draw type of thing but keeps things dry.

You can find them at best buy and lots of other stores fairly cheap- I've had mine so long I can't even remember where I bought it.

[wbond]

You should never promise "that's it" because you don't know what I'm likely to post in reply.

I grew up a country person the first half of my life. We used to say we are county people, but not rednecks, which meant we were law abiding, polite, respectful of others, and tried to better ourselves. Redneck meant to us someone who was ignorant with no desire for self improvement and was a bully.

So when I used the term redneck before, I didn't intend the same meaning as you described. 75% of my relatives are still country people and they are very self sufficient. They even made their own home hydro electric generating plant (on a small creek), but gave that up years later because electricity is so cheap in Oregon. They built all their own homes from trees they cut down themselves onsite. They are very self sufficient and I respect that. My country relatives are good, law abiding people, and they are NOT bullies. I go back to the country almost every weekend to shoot. I like most of the people in the country, as in the city. However, there are those exceptions.

I did NOT intend to insult good country people. I like and respect them. I only intended to refer to the bullies.

The confusion is because we have a different definition of the word "redneck". In my area, that is a derogatory term used to refer to country bullies and low lifes. The city bullies and low lifes would be called white trash or scumbags.

I've lived in cities the second half of my life. So I'm more a city person now, but I go back to the country to visit my country cousins almost every weekend. I also socialize with the guys at the small town gun store, grocery store, etc.

There are good people in the city and county. There are also bad people in both. On average, country people are friendlier. I was never intending to insult good, decent people who are respectful of others.

I did not intend to offend any good, law abiding county people. I'm sorry if I did. There was confusion over the term "redneck" because it means something different to me than to some of you. This difference is probably based on geographic differences in local language.

[wbond]

I have it on CD, and Rawhide too. I moved years ago from the country to a large town-small city.

I'm a computer programmer and computer network administrator now, but years ago I was a commercial real estate agent.

When we'd get an agent down from Seattle, they sometimes treated me and my coworkers like we were ignorant hillbillies. True, I did literally come from the hills, but I'm not ignorant.

I couldn't resist either putting in dueling banjos on the office sound system or sometimes the song from Rawhide with gun fire and all.

You should've seen their faces. Hilarious. My coworkers loved it.

I only did this if I knew they were condescending from prior encounters. I figured I'd have some fun with their preconceptions.

Great fun.

[MCgunner]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v220/southernfjr/bbackmtn2.jpg

[Checkman]

Well I'm a cop here in Western Idaho and as you might expect we have all types of descriptive terms. If they're white, trashy and inclined to criminal activites such as drugs, physical abuse, theft, burglary, fighting and my favorite, sex crimes, we either call them white trash or trailer trash.

Typically the WT or TT's also have little to no education, live in filth and do not respect themselves or others. The majority of them also tend to be in horrible health, live off of social security/ welfare and expect those of us who do work to do everything for them. Dwight Yoakam's character in Slingblade is a classic example of trash.

How's that for being precise and not painting with broad strokes?

I come from a long line of Eastern Tenessee Hillbillies on my father's side. My grandfather and great-uncles were the first men who didn't live in the hills. They were city dwellers and the only reason why they didn't continue the life of agrarian labor was that WW2 gave them a ticket off the farm.

However many of my ancestors were soldiers, deputy sheriffs, farmers and coal miners. They were hillbillies, but they were not trash and believed in education and the law.

I was raised in Idaho and I went to college (my father basically demanded this), but I'm very proud of my hillbillie or redneck roots.

[wbond]

Beautiful post. Thank you.

I come from the hills, but try to be respectable and better myself. I'm not ignorant and violent like many. I'm an educated hillbilly (former hillbilly) who tries to treat others as I'd want to be treated.

I think your post said everything I was trying to say and said it better. Good job.

You obviously understand my frustration with the trashy, violent country hillbillies and the violent city trash. I would have called the country trash "rednecks", but now I realize that "redneck" means something else entirely to many of you. I don't want to offend the innocent. I'll just still to "scumbags" from now on because that's a term we all understand the same across the USA.

By your definition of redneck, that term is a decent country person. In which case, that would be most of my relatives and me. I've got one foot in the country and one in the city.

[sterling180]

In the UK we have our version of "hillbillys and rednecks" in the rural areas of the UK.If any of you saw the film:Straw Dogs,starring Dustin Hoffman as the maths teacher-who defends his home and his English wife,from the local gang of hillbillys-you would see british redneck brutality at its worst.

In the countryside there are: the usual rednecks,hillbillys and also Pikeys/New-age travellers.The latter is what farmer Tony Martin,protected his farm against and alot of rednecks (Martin included) and hillbillys in the UK,don't like the pikeys-because they simply set up camp on their land without permission and leave a big mess around their campsite-for the local authorities to clean up,they steal anything of value that they can lay their theiving hands on, and finally they don't EVER pay taxes,unlike the hard-working men and women in our society. Most of these pikies have been threatened by rednecks with guns,for tresspassing and the cops occassionally turn a blind-eye to the rednecks threats of violence to the pikies,because the pikies are generally hated by most police-forces, in the uk.

In the towns and cities,you get our versions of trailer-park,white trash,who live on state welfare benefits-much to our annoyance-as well as not having much or any formal education or qualifications in anything and basically take the P*ss,with our generous government benefits.20 years ago they would have been branded "Welfare Scroungers",by Margeret Thatchers Conservative government.

[wbond]

like the instructions say to.

No one made any comment on that.

I think it works well and won't foul cartridges in a revolver. Not sure yet about an auto. I'm running a test on the auto.

The water proof container ideas all have some merit, but it rains 2/3 of the time where I'm from. I can't always have my gun in plastic. My fanny pack is water resistant enough for most rain. My rain coat has a built in vertical holster. So my gun stays dry from liquid water (usually), but the humidity is 70 to 90% plus my body sweat, which is also high because of humidity.

Annointing the bore of my SP101 and Taurus stainless revolvers has so far worked very well. It appears to be working well for my Firestorm .380, but the jury is still out on that because I want to verify the cartridge in chamber doesn't foul.

Has anyone else ever done the Hoppes #9 Powder Solvent bore annointing trick? How'd it work for you?

[Checkman]

Wbond

You obviously understand my frustration with the trashy, violent country hillbillies and the violent city trash. I would have called the country trash "rednecks", but now I realize that "redneck" means something else entirely to many of you. I don't want to offend the innocent. I'll just still to "scumbags" from now on because that's a term we all understand the same across the USA.

By your definition of redneck, that term is a decent country person. In which case, that would be most of my relatives and me. I've got one foot in the country and one in the city.

I do understand your frustration. At leat once or twice a week I have to go into their homes and talk to them about one case or another. The one thing I was never prepared for before I became a cop was the smell. I simply didn't know that people and their homes could smell like that. I can't desribe the smell, but it's distinctive and recognizable. I just call it the filth smell.

And for what it's worth I've dealt with trashy city folks who have followed the migration to Western Idaho. You don't have to have lived in the country to be trash. Trust me on this.

What's really amazing is how there really are families that are just no good and they just pass it on to the next generation. In my pre-law enforcement days when I was more enlightened I didn't think that was possible. Well that's one illusion that's gone. Darn it. :o

Sometimes I look back on the kid I used to be and I sure am envious. But hey now I have more money to buy guns with so what the heck. :D

This thread will probably be closed because of drift, but it sure is fun.

[wbond]

I've got the ultimate British welfare gripe for you. I'm a US Citizen. So what do I know about British welfare?

I watched on the history channel a story about how a 19 year old British scientist participated in the Manhatten project to build the Atom Bomb in Nevada, USA.

After WWII ended, this closet communist then stole the plans for the A-Bomb and gave them to the KGB. Stalin used that to build the Russian nuclear bomb. Didn't you ever wonder how the backward Russians (they were backward at that time) built a bomb in just a few years after WWII ended? I think it was 1948 when they detinated their first A-Bomb. The cold war followed.

That slimy puke British scientist who gave the bomb plans to the USSR is now living on Brithish welfare. He should be in prison. He should be shot for treason. The British government is ignoring him because he's a senior citizen now.

The man's treachery did not become known until recent years when KGB files were opened.

The British and US governments know about that cretin, yet they allow him to remain free and live of the British welfare tit. The least he could do would be live off the USSR welfare tit. Oops. There is no USSR.

I wish I could remember that guy's name.

He caused the cold war. If the USSR did not have the bomb, there would have been no cold war because they would have behaved.

The cold war (Korea, Vietnam, etc) resulted in many thousands of USA, British, and various other United Nations soldiers deaths. Not to mention all the civilians that Stalin and others were free to continue killing and torturing.

Yet the guy that caused it all is living free in Britain and sucking on the welfare tit of the country he betrayed.

He deserves to be prosecuted for treason, put against a wall, and shot. At least kick him off British welfare.

[sterling180]

Wbond:

Unfortunately they stopped executions-for high-treason and Piracy officially in the late 1990s early 2000s,because Britain is a member of the European Union and they as a collective don't tolerate any forms of torture or execution on any citizen in existance-including mega-S.O.B.S like:Saddam Hussain,Milsovich(When he was alive.)and other former-Serbian high-ranking officials that were responsible for ethnic cleansing,etc in the 1990s.This also applies to captured associates and followers of the Al-qaeda network-unfortunately,much to my dissaproval.

Jack Straw signed a document outlawing the death penalty for good in the UK ,in some conference either in Brussells or in Luxembourg,where other nations representitives did the same thing.The EU even interfears with how long a suspect should be jailed for and there is no such sentence as "life means for life and evermore".

In the 1950s and 1960s, this piece of scum would have been either shot or hung for high-treason,or would have been jailed for the rest of his life-if he was lucky.

In Bexleyheath,in the county of Kent,there lived an old woman who was a member of the KGB-who spied for her Soviet masters and passed on various British and American secrets,to them-I think for money and the love of the communist cause.When I found out about this,I was furious and I wrote to the local newspaper,stating that, 'She should either be jailed for the rest of her life or be hung'.She is alive and well,living in her house in comfort-unfortunately a few miles away from the likes of myself and a few-others who hate traitors.

Unfortunately because of the EU liberals we can't literally throw anyone in prison and throw away the key or even throw away their rights and permenantly exclude them from their entitlements to welfare-state benefits-because they will start their moaning to the lawyers,law-courts,the Home-Office and FINALLY, the EU liberals-.who will in turn prevent them from being trounced completely.:cuss: :banghead:

If this was to go to court,then its likely that the prison sentence would be minimal and the person would be pardoned-but you never know,with the right Judge and Juries,this person could go into the slammer-for a considerable number of years.AND SO HE SHOULD.:cuss:

[Hogfan1911]

Mcgunner, that poster is the funniest thing I've seen in weeks. Watch the Arkansas comments, tho. Yes, we have our share of hillbillies, but the Dope from Hope is about as Arkansan as Bill Gates is ghetto. BTW, been to a majority of the states of this great Republic (can we still call it a republic?) and the most backwoods, backward, inbred-looking, wearing nothing but greasy overalls hillbillies I've ever seen were in Pennsylvania, less than an hour from Pittsburg. Go figure.

[wbond]

I don't know if that reputation is deserved, but that's what I've already heard about them.

I don't care what someone looks like as long as they aren't a danger to me.

[MICHAEL T]

red necks, trailer trash . lets move ahead these people should now be known as Jerry Springers. That covers all of them and PC :neener:

[wbond]

How much of that EU crap is because of France?

I think I smell a French rat here. I don't care if that's politically incorrect or not. It wasn't to long ago that the French were spitting on American tourists.

I thought the communists lost the cold war, but in fact it appears they won it in France, are winning in Britain, and are putting up a hell of a fight in the USA.

When I say communists I mean liberals because somehow they're the same or in league, which is funny (sad) because the Soviet communists never tolerated liberals. They killed liberals.

Little known fact. In the 1920s and 1930s a bunch of USA liberals and commys went to the USSR to join their commy brothers. The Russians eventually killed most of them and they were never heard from again.

[Hogfan1911]

I would think one of the Taurus Total Titanium revolvers would be great for the job. I do a lot of wade fishing/canoeing in places where it's not will you see snakes, it's how many & how close. My buddy had a 3' cottonmouth latch on to one of the fish on his stringer, which was attached to his belt at the time. Never knew he could cuss that fluently, dance that well, or hit notes that high. Ever since have wanted one of those Tauruses, either 357 or 45 Colt, carried in an Uncle Mikes nylon shoulder rig with the first 2 chambers loaded w/CCI shotshells backed up with something more serious in the rest. Backup rounds in a ziploc bag. If it gets dunked, pull the sideplate when you get home & give the innards a good blasting with some of that compressed air cleaner stuff for electronics followed by the solvent/lube of your choice. Just can't ever seem to round up the $$$ for the gun without something else popping up to take it. :cuss:

[sterling180]

Wbond:

I think that the Home secretary Charles Clarke should force this scumbag out of the UK and hand him over to the American government,so that he can spend the rest of his life in Guantanimo Bay-along with other traitors from England who sided with Bin-Laden and his Al-qaeda followers.I sure that your authorities would be really pleased to see him.

If there's one thing I can't stand,that is 'paying for traitors',when they should be rotting in a high-security prison

[MCgunner]

Hogfan, I just get a little carried away with the Arkansas thing because my wife's best friend moved to Batesville and now lives in Fayetteville and she's a raging liberal democrat that idolizes Clinton. :rolleyes: The other day the wife's talkin' to her on the phone and I don't remember what I said to her, but she says "I'll have you know Arkansas is home of some of America's richest citizens!" To which I replied, "Hmmm, what's the price of moon shine goin' for these days?" ROFLMAO! She got so mad she hung up! :D

Anyway, I love the state. Great roads to ride up there and some fun places to camp. I had a great time camping at Blanchard Springs once, caught some trout with whole kernel corn for bait and had a fish fry to die for. :D That was great fun.

[Working Man]

BigG, just read your review...

Pentrating look at how helpless tame human beings are once out of their familiar habitat. See this movie! Bottom Bottom Line: Do not go into the wilderness unarmed!

Nope.... no puns here. :evil:

MCgunner, whenever I went into the woods of Nach-a-nowhere I
always made sure I was armed. Years ago as a kid me and a buddy got lost
coming back in from the woods. I followed the sound of music (one line
said "Hail to the chief") called out to the people up the ridge. Told them we
were lost and received the response "Hope and pray prick" :what: . We both
dropped to the ground pointing or guns in the general direction we heard the
voices from. Me with a side by side 20 and my buddy with a .22. After an
ammo check we kept low and double timed it out of there.

Funny now... wasn't then. :D

Edit: This happened at night.

[MCgunner]

Cut the front of that shot shell around the top of the brass where the wad is, then shoot it. The whole front of the shell will go out the barrel like a slug. It works, used to do it as a kid. Saw a kid hit a goose 100 yards high like that (pure luck). You could hear that wicked shell goin' through the air. Not to be done a lot, but hey, in an emergency when you need a rifle's reach and you're packin' 7 1/2 shot.....

I had a professor in Wildlife Science 201 at A&M. Forget his name now, but he had worked for parks and wildlife in east Texas. This was back in the 30s. I doubt the ol' boy is still alive, now. This was about '73 and he was maybe 10 years from retirement then. Anyway, he said they used to come upon stills back in the woods, would just back out and go another direction. Said first time he did that one of the towns folk came in and they were talkin'. Said the guy asked him did he see anything unusual out in the woods that day. "Nope, nothin', not a thing," was his reply. After that, he was one of the locals, a good ol' boy. :D

[Working Man]

Cut the front of that shot shell around the top of the brass where the wad is, then shoot it. The whole front of the shell will go out the barrel like a slug.

MCgunner, that's a good idea. Hopefully I'll never be so under gunned
but it is good to have options. I got no issue with good ol' boys, usually get
along pretty well but I'm smart enough to know I can be in the wrong place
at the wrong time.

[Rigby470]

What gets me about the movie is how little those guys knew about camping and survival. You get the impression that Burt Reynolds' character knew a few things, but the others seemed clueless. Even one of the other guys, who apparantly owned his own bow, could not force himself to kill a deer. I mean, if you own a bow, you should be proficient enough with it to be able to use it if needed. These guys were true city slickers. What they were doing on a trip of that magnitude with little knowledge of the area, camping, basic survival, and weapons is the question.

But I guess city boys think wilderness survival is a peice of cake. I know a guy who goes elk hunting in Colorado every year. He says there are guys who show up out there having never shot a gun before in their life. They buy a $3000 rifle and want the guide to site it in for them and, get this, even shoot an elk for them! Why go through all the trouble in the first place? These guys are statistics waiting to happen!

[joab]

Burt Reynolds character was a macho survialist adrenaline junky that bullied the others into going along with his adventures, Kind of a gritty premake of City Slickers.
The others live vicariously through him and in some ways and in others they felt more important or manly by being his friend.

These guys were true city slickers. What they were doing on a trip of that magnitude with little knowledge of the area, camping, basic survival, and weapons is the question.
That's one of the main themes of the story

[Mal H]

Exactly.

You have to realize that James Dickey was foremost a poet. Deliverance was more of an allegory than a simple novel. The theme was "don't mess with Mother Nature if you don't know what you are doing, she's far far stronger than you and she doesn't quit."

[Dienekes]

I came from a northern border farming state in the 50s--mainly populated by Lutheran Scandinavians, where farms stayed in the same family for 100 years and each generation improved the place noticeably; sort of like Amish with pickups. Not fancy or pretentious, just hard working and decent.

Spent a career as an LEO elsewhere. Hard to believe that people will live and act the way they do. There was a time that I had no idea of what "white trash" meant. Now I just make my way around it as best I can and keep moving--don't need the trouble, and the system has been set up to take care of "good old boys" since time immemorial.

The other thing is that the entire culture in this country is engaged in a race to the bottom--ruder and cruder is the watchword and God knows where it will stop. It could get worse. a lot worse.

BTW this has nothing to do with poverty. Someone once said that the lifestyle my family had in the 1950s would be considered poverty-stricken and hopeless today. Hardly.

As to the original topic--not much water around here but any good duty-type handgun should shrug off a lot of abuse and still work just fine. If ammo protection is an issue, secure it in something waterproof and change it out with some regularity. That's why I prefer guns that have years of hard police service or a war or two under their belts. They *work*.

[Carl N. Brown]

Hillbillies are people who grew up or live in the hills.
Rednecks are people who work hard in the sun.
Me and mine are hillbillies and rednecks and I lived
about a year in a trailer and I see no shame in that.

White trash is a whole 'nother subspecies. Worst of
that lot are the meth cookers. Then the bootleggers
who make moonshine because store likker does not
rot their brains fast enuf. Followed by pot farrners
(white trash pot farmers are not hippy lovechildren!)


I really despised Deliverance. There is a local white water
rafting site, and I thought it would be real cool to watch
for some yankee tourist tags in the parking lot, and
arrange to get a 4x4 with a good sound system on a
hill overlooking the river and play "Duelling Banjos" as
they rafted by.


"Ammo and guns are not as water sensitive as people think."

This is a carryover from the black powder cap'n'ball days
when guns were water sensitive (although with grease and wax,
cap'n'ball can be made somewhat water resistent).

"Cut the front of that shot shell around the top of the
brass where the wad is, then shoot it."

That trick was used by the British Home Guard in WWII when
they stood coast watch with shotguns. It worked like slugs.

"don't mess with Mother Nature if you don't know what you
are doing, she's far far stronger than you and she doesn't quit."

Mother Nature is a stern mother with no patience with idiot children.

Ned Beatty talking down to the mountain men while letting them
know he was scared of them was his mistake.

[neil minor]

What a thread!! OK, my turn.

I was raised in East Tennessee and moved to Georgia (north of Atlanta) last summer. Home to me will always be Tennessee (go VOLS!!). Maybe this makes me a redneck. I have been to many large cities, the islands of Bermuda and Barbados. I also have been to Canada. I have floated down some very rural waters in Tennessee, North Carolina and Georgia, and camped in several southern states. Do you know what I found? There are good people and there are bad people everywhere. Most behavioral traits and morals seem to come directly from ones’ families and living environments. The terms used in these posts seem to be relative to geographical locations and common languages. I guess of them all, I would use the term "trash" because the associated people can be in all colors and races. I do not like to think I prefer this term because of any "pc" reasons, I just think it fits best.

The movie Deliverance is probably one of my top ten all time favorites. I also enjoyed the book. But it sure gave me pause regarding the time I spend in the great outdoors. I carry when I camp, hike, etc. But as a legal ccw holder, I also carry when I go into town.

I was not offended when I read any other the posts here, but I am somewhat concerned with the common stereotype of southern people being lazy and stupid. I’m glad I did not read any influence of it here because I really enjoy this website and have respect of my fellow shooting enthusiasts. Overall, this was enjoyable to read.

Wet ammunition:
I read some great information in this thread.

One of the reasons I bought a Glock was because of the abuse it is designed to take. I have read many instances of Glock’s still working when they are muddy, wet and nearly frozen. I understand the tennifer finish is really tough. I purchase quality ammunition and have never had problems with it due to being somewhat wet (from rain, wet hands).

[GaryM]

That is the movie that started me packing heat whenever I hit the trails too.
Usually something in a higher power range pistol such as a 10mm, .357 or .44mag. I have also learned a good offense is better than a retreat and hope approach. (I.E. If I see someone I holler out some sort of greeting and ask them how their hunting/fishing/moonshining is going then wish them a good day and I am off on my own again.

[Detritus]

Cut the front of that shot shell around the top of the brass where the wad is, then shoot it. The whole front of the shell will go out the barrel like a slug.

just don't let a game warden or like type catch you with such a shell....

what you describe is an old trick used by those who intend to poach deer, "I swear warden i'm only out here after (insert local legit game bird), see all i have in my pocket is birdshot. not a slug in the bunch!". and if they find you with a cut shell the assumption WILL be that you are up to no good.

i understand the spirit in, and intent for which the above info was given, just giving further caution and warning for those not aware of the "other use".