The Rundown on 9mm Carbines?


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StrikeFire83
April 23, 2006, 06:30 PM
Now that I have 2 handguns in 9mm, I was thinking that my next firearms purchase (a LONG way off) should be a pistol caliber carbine in 9mm.

My range has a Baretta CX4 Storm in 9mm for rent, and I think I'll try it out to see what it's like.

Just looking for info from people who own modern pistol caliber carbines. What kind of range can I expect? What kind of accuracy do they have? Do ballistics of the 9mm round change with it coming out of such a long barrel?

Thanks in advance for any responses.

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grendelbane
April 23, 2006, 06:45 PM
I enjoy my 9mm carbine, but I am sure that there are many here who will tell you that they are totally worthless.

I certainly don't subscribe to that philosophy, but I do admit that they have their shortcomings.

I would say that their practical range is about 100 yards. They will fire much farther of course, but the trajectory of the bullet is pretty well arched by that time.

The long barrel provides a definite, but limited boost in velocity. All barrels are different, but I would say anywhere from a 100 FPS to 200 FPS boost, depending on bullet weight and powder charge. For serious purposes, I would recommend the heavier bullet weights.

Now the pistol caliber carbine bashers can have their turn.:)

meef
April 23, 2006, 07:04 PM
I see that among your firearms you have a Glock 17.

Well now, KelTec has a nifty carbine called the SUB 2000 that just happens to use Glock 17 magazines. Might want to do a bit of research on it.

:)

nipprdog
April 23, 2006, 07:25 PM
For serious purposes, I would recommend the heavier bullet weights.


bad choice. in most cases, the heavier bullets will have little, if any increase in velocity, and will probably lose velocity. has to do with the faster burning powders used for heavier bullets.

p.s. not a "pistol caliber carbine basher".

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v605/nippr/mine/chart.jpg

marklbucla
April 23, 2006, 07:28 PM
I've got a Ruger PC9 and an Olympic Arms AR in 9mm. I love them both. They're accurate, fun, and cheap to shoot!

StrikeFire83
April 23, 2006, 07:32 PM
Okay...well, help me make a "short list" of 9mm carbines.

1. Beretta Cx4 Storm
2. Kel-Tec SUB 2000
...

cracked butt
April 23, 2006, 07:39 PM
Hi-Point makes a carbine and they are ultra cheap at around $170 in my area. I've been tempted by them, but I just don't have a use for one and I have plenty of other fun guns already.

IIRC, HK might have made a carbine in 9mm similar to the Beretta CX4- there was one in .223 and another in a pistol caliber, might have been in 9mm but I'm not sure. I shot the .223 version 5 or 6 years ago.

meef
April 23, 2006, 07:49 PM
Regarding your initial short list -

I don't know how much cost is a factor to you, but the SUB 2000 can be had for around $270 - $290. The Storm will run you at least twice that much, likely more.

That difference will buy a lot of Glock 17 33-round mags and a really big batch of ammo.

grendelbane
April 23, 2006, 07:50 PM
bad choice. in most cases, the heavier bullets will have little, if any increase in velocity, and will probably lose velocity. has to do with the faster burning powders used for heavier bullets.



I don't think that it is a bad choice, and here is my reasoning.

I am well familiar with the claims that heavy bullets can actually lose velocity in 16" barrels. That this happens on occasion, I do not doubt, but my experience with a handful of carbine length 9mm's tells me it is a rare exception to the general pattern of things.

Look at your chart and you will see that the lighter bullets experience a larger increase in velocity. This can push them faster than required for optimum penetration. In a hollow point bullet, higher velocity usually results in increased expansion, but lesser penetration.

The heavier bullets stay closer to their optimal velocity envelope. That is why I prefer them, not because of any difference in efficiency between the 2 types of bullets.

For plinking, with FMJ bullets, it makes no difference, though I note that my AR shoots the heavier bullets a touch more accurately. I think that this is because the heavier bullets are longer, and a better match for the rifling twist.

So, there is method to my madness.:D

Bigfoot
April 23, 2006, 07:52 PM
Hi-Point shootoff with Ruger PC9.
http://www.mkssupply.com/documents/guntest.pdf

ATI $70 stock.
http://www.atigunstocks.com/product-hipoint.html

Pistol caliber carbines are great for backyard skunk-coyote control and cheap plinking because they are quieter and more accurate than a pistol. Since it's kept close to the back door it might also be used as a defensive gun if it's the closest gun to grab. It's not the kind of gun that I would want to spend lots of money on though. I'm going to get one of the Hi-Point .45 carbines when they come out.

RecoilRob
April 23, 2006, 07:59 PM
Lots of hi-cap mags available. Allows you to carry ammo that is useable in both handgun and carbine.

Low recoil...fast followup shots easily made.

Durable and cheap to shoot.

Relatively quiet...doesn't ring my ears like rifle fire does without ears. (No, I don't shoot it much without ears but have and it isn't NEARLY as bad as an AR-15 or such).

When the Zombies Attack...your #1 Choice!

rbernie
April 23, 2006, 08:04 PM
I have a Marlin Camp Carbine in 45ACP. I like it for indoor long gun practice - it uses my 1911 magazines and shoots ammo that's even cheaper to make or buy than 223. It's light and handy.

If it had a more robust trigger guard/magazine housing, it'd probably be a decent SHTF rifle for close-range work. As it stands, I'd be reluctant to trust it as my primary SHTF long gun.

AFhack
April 23, 2006, 08:13 PM
you could go for one of the AR-15 9mm variants.

If you wanted to go cheap you could build your own lower, buy a 9mm upper and then maybe have room for a 223 upper later on.

browningguy
April 23, 2006, 08:28 PM
I really like my KelTec, mine has the G17 grip. I keep four of the 31 rd. mags loaded up, plus the 10 rounder that came with it, and a couple of regular G17 mags that I picked up cheap. It's quite a decent amount of firepower that fits in a brifcase. Mine shoots 2-2 1/2" at 50 yards, I'm much worse at 100 because of my tired old eyes, but they are still all on a 12" target.

grendelbane
April 23, 2006, 08:42 PM
but I am sure that there are many here who will tell you that they are totally worthless.


OK, so I was mistaken. THR is much more pistol caliber carbine friendly than a couple of other forums which will remain nameless.

I think everybody ought to have at least one.

Foxtrot427
April 23, 2006, 08:44 PM
I like the camp 9. Its nice with the pistol stocks.

Lex
April 23, 2006, 08:49 PM
Like others have stated, go with a 9mm AR. You can add more parts later and have a 9mm and .223.

Plus, AR's have plenty of cool toys to add on!!!!!!!!

If it comes down to $$$ (like me), go with the KelTec. The CX4 does look cool but the $$$ is alot more. For that kinda $$, I'd do the AR upper in 9mm.



Lex in NC

silicon wolverine
April 24, 2006, 01:24 AM
1. buy a vulcan 9mm upper and have a Ar style. around 900$
2. Hi-point. No tackdriver but a good plinker. 150-210$
3. Glock 17 carbine conversion 300$

I like the glock conversion the best. I sold off the other two to pay for it. And before the vulcan/hesse bashers start, i had ZERO problems with my upper using good quaility sten mags.

SW

Cortland
April 24, 2006, 01:36 AM
UZI!! They're affordable ($600 from Vector, I think). Plenty of hi capacity magazines, a fair number of accessories, accurate, and just plain cool. You can get conversion kits for .22LR and .45 ACP, too.

At 50+ years old, the Uzi may not be "modern" but it'd still be my first choice. As far as accuracy goes, I can hit a 12" gong at 100 yards with my open bolt Uzi, so I imagine a semi would be plenty accurate.

Clean97GTI
April 24, 2006, 02:46 AM
seeing that you have a Glock 17, might I suggest the carbine conversion unit from Mech Tech systems. http://www.mechtechsys.com/
It uses your Glock's frame and a new, blowback upper. Right on MechTech's techincal page, they state that they designed these things to work with the hottest loads and that weak loads may cause issues. I've not used one, but I doubt you'd have any real trouble.
IIRC, I saw some Hirtenberger +p+ around not long ago that would be a blast (no pun intended) to shoot for not much money.

tomkatz
April 24, 2006, 02:50 AM
Alot of good ideas offered here as usual....I have a ruger pc9 and I like it. Recoil Rob, what mag is in your pic?
BTW I recently saw an olympic arms AR made for glock 9mm mags, pretty cool:cool: .
.....tom

BillinNH
April 24, 2006, 08:22 AM
I like the Kelktec sub2000 with the S&W59 magazine format since it fits my Marlin Camp 9 and my Keltec P11 pistol as well. I like the HiPoint for its ergonomics, reliability, low price and audacious styling :) . All three of these guns are very satisfying to shoot and the Keltec is especially accurate.

I also recommend the Marlin Camp 45 if you can find one and I intend to get the Hipoint 45 as soon as it comes out.

I think the Rugers are fine guns but a little heavy.

I think the Beretta is seriously overpriced.

I think the 40 cal. carbines from various manufacturers are well worth considering.

I'm glad we have all these choices.

BTW, there are really two justifications for a pistol caliber carbine: They will do everything a pistol will do only better and they are great good fun to shoot.

Bill

Double Naught Spy
April 24, 2006, 08:57 AM
BillinNH said, BTW, there are really two justifications for a pistol caliber carbine: They will do everything a pistol will do only better and they are great good fun to shoot.

Not exactly. They will not do everything a pistol will do, only better. Specifically, their size causes limitations, as does the size for other carbines. It is easier to clear rooms with a smaller platform than a larger platform, so pistols are easier in this regard than carbines. The more confined the area, the less useful the carbines. Note, there is a reason tunnel rats in Vietnam used handguns instead of carbines for clearing tunnels.

As for being fun, lots of guns are fun.

AFhack said
you could go for one of the AR-15 9mm variants.

If you wanted to go cheap you could build your own lower, buy a 9mm upper and then maybe have room for a 223 upper later on.

9mm AR15s are usually not cheap, being the price of AR15s. Mags are not cheap either. You can change out uppers and that would be a nifty benefit, but not really inexpensive.

dfaugh
April 24, 2006, 09:21 AM
I bought one of the 9mm Hi-Points when they first came out...best $165 bucks I ever spent. 5000 rounds and never a problem. Off a bench, at 50 yards I can hold 3-4" groups (10 shots), using "cheapo" ammo (Wolf or Blazer), which for me with iron sights is all I would expect. Expect I wouldn't have much trouble hitting a "man-sized" target at 100 yards, although I consider 50 yards to be a more practical range. Note that the Hi-Point will handle +P+ loads (which I keep loaded in the magazine for HD) and they probably attain pretty high velocities out of the longer barrel, although I've never chronographed any. Someone, whether on this board or another(maybe do a search on handloading section), worked up some handloads (that were NOT +P or +P+) and claimed a velocity over 1700 fps, tested in a Hi-Point.

In short, I think they're really handy, as well as fun plinkers.

eab
April 24, 2006, 12:13 PM
AR 15 9mm mags are cheap. You can get it setup to take Sten mags and those are some of the cheapest mags you can get. However, everything else about it is expensive. The lower runs about $200.00 add the upper and you are totaling about $600-$800 depending on options. Not really cheap in my book.

1911user
April 24, 2006, 12:41 PM
The kel-tec sub2000 has the fold-in-half thing going for it and can use common double-stack 9mm mags unlike the hi-point. Has anyone made a conversion unit to use non-hipoint mags in the hipoint carbine? That's a better mousetrap that should exist.

Low recoil, lower noise, decent/good mag capacity, common/cheap mags, and the much longer sight radius make for a potent package to 100 yards. I was at a local steel match recently and one of the ladies used a ruger 9mm carbine to just mow the targets down and didn't miss once. She did it for fun since it was a pistol match, but she had good hits quick and didn't have to work hard to do it. That's something consider for a lesser-experienced person who needs a defense firearm.

Daniel T
April 24, 2006, 01:16 PM
StrikeFire83:

I think the fact you already own a Glock 17 would make the Glock version of the Kel-Tec sub2000 a no-brainer. Light, handy, inexpensive, and decently accurate.

Just_a_dude_with_a_gun
April 24, 2006, 02:59 PM
My opinion....

-I've fired the ruger PC40 with ghost rings. Yes, a bit heavier than the plastic guns, but handles so quick, and target aquisition was effortless. Definitely solid. I would probably buy one of these used, and would definitely buy one
new ord used, if they made a pistol grip stock for it.


-The kel-tec Sub2000 is a very handy carbine though. The fact that it folds, uses your pistol mags, and known to be pretty reliable with decent ammo.
again, +1! Pistol grip = perfect for this application.

-A clean, unabused Camp-9 is always a fine bet. Nothing wrong with these,
though they've been creeping up in price. pistol grip stocks are available.

-The Hi-point seems like a really good idea if you're looking to have fun.
The only people that hate it seem to be folks that would never buy one. :confused: That ATI CX knock-off stock is cool! I'd buy one, as the price is right enough to gamble. Heck, at this price for a pistol grip/caliber carbine , even if it were a dog, I'd make it my hobby and challenge to get it running flawlessly.


-The beretta CX4 is my favorite for a number of reasons, but honestly the price keeps me from buying one. I'm not cheap (I've got a Sig and Springfield) but, until they're under $500 used I can't make myself pull the trigger (pun intended).

To me, the AR15 based pistol caliber uppers seem like a fantastic Idea for a guy who is already a .223 AR guy, and wants to use it indoors. I can't say the cost is worth it for me, to bother with a $750-950 9mm AR. Silly.

Devonai
August 31, 2006, 03:53 PM
Has anybody used 20 or 30 round 9mm mags in their Ruger PC40? I ask because I know Beretta magazines are interchangable and it would be nice to have more than 11 rounds in the PC40.

Fred Fuller
August 31, 2006, 05:18 PM
The HiPoint carbine is a sleeper, it's a good little gun. Only real drawback is the factory 10- round magazine. With ATI making a replacement stock for it now (that really makes it look pretty sharp), I don't see why they didn't design the replacement stock to take one of the common double stack pistol magazines. They'd sell a million of 'em if they did, I'd bet.

lpl/nc

Prince Yamato
August 31, 2006, 05:44 PM
I've never fired it, but doesn't Masterpiece Arms sell a 9mm carbine that takes suomi mags and drums? The Defender I think they call it. It's a hybridization (though bastardization is probably more accurate) of an FAL, Mac-11, Thompson, Suomi, and an AR. It looks like a Tommy Gun, kind of.

mp510
August 31, 2006, 05:52 PM
Go with a Ruger PC-9. They arevery comfortable to shoot, and hi cap mags are very easy to obtain. They are accurate, tacticool but still have a level of sheeple friendliness. They are accurate and reliable as well.

Zach S
August 31, 2006, 06:52 PM
One problem with 9mm ARs is the magazines. They only ones that work properly, with just about any ammo you put in it, are factory colt SMG mags, which you get a deal on if you pay less than $50 for. Promag makes some mags that can be had for less than $20, but IME they arent very reliable with anything that resembles defense ammo. Notched UZI mags run pretty well, but they dont lock the bolt open when theyre empty.

If you decide on a 9mm AR, and you just want a plinker, I'd reccomend the Oly that uses sten mags. I dont care for the glock lowers because of the bolt catch setup. Or if you want to swap back and forth between 9mm and 5.56, you can get a standard lower and a mag block that uses un-modified UZI mags that are readily available (but you have to live without the BHO). Remove the block and swap uppers at will. The 9mm buffer is a bit too heavy to use with wolf .223 though.

you could go for one of the AR-15 9mm variants.

If you wanted to go cheap you could build your own lower, buy a 9mm upper and then maybe have room for a 223 upper later on.

Figure a little over $400 for my upper, $100 for my carry handle, $125 for the mag block, $25 for my buffer and $250 or so for the assembled lower, and the total is around $900 for a complete rifle without a magazine. Not exactly cheap.

Of course, everything I got for mine was new, I dont know what the used 9mm stuff market looks like.

Steelcore
August 31, 2006, 06:53 PM
I have a
Marlin Camp
Beretta Storm
Ruger PC9

I've been thinking about selling all of them and buying an Olympic Glock mag carbine.It uses a special lower that is set up to take Glock mags without an adapter.

marklbucla
August 31, 2006, 07:12 PM
The Colt style 9mm AR is harder to deal with than the Olympic style. The Oly style just requires you do to a straight swap of the upper and mags. You could also get a mag block and just use cheapie Sten Mags. No buffer, hammer, or mag block issues to deal with like with the Colt.

smince
August 31, 2006, 07:18 PM
Another vote for the Mechtech CCU. Mine for my 1911 has been 99.9% reliable(nothing is perfect).

Dr.Rob
August 31, 2006, 09:07 PM
The storm is swoopy and handles well but I really dislike the sights.

444
August 31, 2006, 09:45 PM
This is another topic that is frequently discussed. A search will provide you with plenty of reading.

I have owned the High Point, the Ruger PC9, and the Colt AR15 in 9mm (factory 9mm gun, not an upper swap).
I sold the other two and kept the AR15. My second choice would be the High Point.

As was mentioned, the AR15 is one of the most popular guns out there, so there are lots of goodies to add on if that floats your boat.
I started out with a standard factory 16" barrel. I then bought a 11.5" upper. Finally I bought an LRM M169 suppressed upper.
The 11.5" upper is one of the funnest guns I own. I have a KAC RAS II rail on it, and Aimpoint ML2 optic and a short Sully stock. This is the perfect carbine for shooting jackrabbits out of the truck. When out shooting jackrabbits, I add a Surefire 900 series weaponslight on the rail. The LRM suppressed upper also has a rail so I can swap all the goodies from one upper to the other if I want: http://www.lrmfirearms.com/suppressors/m169.html As a totally unrealated side note: I chronoed some ammo out of this suppressed upper and it was actually SLOWER than the same ammo out of a KelTec P11 handgun with a 3" barrel. :banghead:

I also recently bought a 100 round Beta mag for it (which is only made for the Colt). http://www.impactguns.com/store/BETA-CCS900.html The Pro-Mags also run flawlessly in my gun and lock the bolt back. Of course the factory Colt mags are also trouble free. I also bought a dozen unknown SMG magazines that work but don't lock the bolt back. Here is a little video on the Beta-C mag FWIW: http://www.impactguns.com/store/beta.html

And here is a good article about the Colt SMG which is the select-fire version of the Colt 9mm that us peons can't own (or at least I don't think so, I have never seen a transferable one, although you could make one from a registered receiver........) http://www.chucktaylorasaa.com/coltm635.html Even though it is about the SMG, most of the information applies to the semi-auto version as well.

I don't know if this has been mentioned or not, but if you go for the gun that takes Glock magazines, there are tons of those 33 round Glock 18 mags at every gunshow I have been to lately. Perfect for the carbine. Natchez has them on sale right now real cheap.
FWIW, I own three 9mm Glocks: 26, 34, 17 and plan on getting a 17L. That isn't enough to make me get rid of the 9mm AR for one that takes Glock magazines.

bearmgc
August 31, 2006, 11:02 PM
Never thought I would, But I did...a camp 9, at a garage sale in excellent condition. its fun, accurate out to about 75 yds for me.

karlsgunbunker
August 31, 2006, 11:22 PM
I have 2 of the Hi-Point Carbines in 9mm. I highly recomend them to anyone who wants a cheap reliable carbine. I had to get the second one because my wife "appropriated" my first. I recently put ATI stocks on both just to improve the appearance and for the added accessories available for them. ($50 at https://securewschent01.websitecomplete.com/marklatimer/shop/showDept.asp?dept=106)

Knock Hi-point all you want. I'm keeping my carbines. :neener:

444
August 31, 2006, 11:30 PM
" I had to get the second one because my wife "appropriated" my first. "

I took a girl I was dating out to shoot and brought along my High Point 9mm carbine with the laser. She said, "Why would someone put that little light on a gun ?" I told her to just put the little red dot on the beer can and squeeze the trigger. That was the last time I touched the gun. I couldn't pry it out of her hands. I just stood there loading magazines. I finally had to insist we were leaving when it got dark.

9mm carbines are a lot of fun. I have never seen anyone shoot one that didn't want one.

The Deer Hunter
August 31, 2006, 11:50 PM
Get a thompson semi-auto 45.

things rock

ZeroCool
September 1, 2006, 03:15 AM
It was pricey, but it is an extremely fun rifle. 9mm ammo is cheap, and you get to shoot an AR type gun at an indoor range. Little to no kick. Hi cap mags. Reliable.

Others will probably say that it isnt a "serious" rifle. While I agree that its no .223, it is much more fun as well as cheaper to shoot.

I say get one.... you'll only have to buy 1 type of ammo!!!

Don't Tread On Me
September 1, 2006, 03:45 AM
Does an M1 carbine count?


Didn't the Automag III shoot .30carbine? See - pistol round! :p

HMMurdock
September 1, 2006, 02:56 PM
My two cents:

Ruger 9mm Carbine is cheap and doable. Great if youre on a budget.

Hi-Point will get the job done, but ugly as crap and I've never been really impressed with anything about them except their price. But you'll never see one in my arsenal.

Beretta Storms are wonderful. Personally owned one and I've regretted getting rid of it. Accurate, almost no recoil, and you can find a wealth of 9mm beretta 92 mags. Warning: it will make you want to buy a Beretta 92! I did and I liked it, but I got an Italian-made (not made in USA... the italian mades are better).

AR-15 9mms are sexy, but hard to find good ammo/mag combinations. I've heard of bad experiences with the new Rock Rivers 9mm versions, but Bushmaster has a couple of variants (including a carbon one). If you have the money to drop and wanna look like a badass DEA agent or something, then go for it. But otherwise...

Kel-Tecs look and feel cheap, but they certainly get the job done. They can take Glock mags which is wonderful if you have a glock. If im not mistaken they also fold in half for storage.

I think keeping to one caliber is great, and 9mm is perfect if you dont use FMJs. The military has to use FMJs because of the geneva convention, and 9mm FMJs have crappy expansion. But get a high-expanding hollow point and you'll be fine. And the bullet drop isn't nearly as bad as on a .45! Go for it. Try them out and see what you like, but I have shot them all and I can personally endorse the Beretta Storm!

TRL

briansmithwins
September 1, 2006, 07:35 PM
Just bought a used Ruger PC9 w/5 mags for $450. Now waiting for delivery.

I wanted a pistol cal carbine to shoot some of my local matches that don't allow rifle caliber rounds.

I decided that I would get either the Beretta or the Ruger based on what I could find first at a decent price.I didn't want to spend $600 on what I consider a match toy.

I was looking very hard at the various AR 9mm uppers and actually borrowed a Oly 9mm and shot it. What a jam-o-matic. Upon further investigation it seems that the Colt/RRA 9mm ARs are more reliable, but you have to put out $50 per magazine, which I'm not willing to do.

I'll post a review of the Ruger when I get it. BSW

obm
September 1, 2006, 11:06 PM
olympic makes an AR that takes glock magazines:

http://www.olyarms.com/?rootView=browse&view=cat&ids=gl

marklbucla
September 2, 2006, 10:53 AM
What a jam-o-matic.

Were you using the Oly modified Sten Mags or were you using some type of mag block and the unmodified Stens? A SOCOM block by chance?

Beren
September 2, 2006, 12:05 PM
it was actually SLOWER than the same

444: I think the upper you have is ported to lower the velocity? I have a 9mm upper with a TROS 5" unported barrel, and there isn't any noticeable velocity difference between it and my Beretta, both with the same suppressor.

nero45acp
September 2, 2006, 12:24 PM
I've owned a Ruger PC9 and a Vector Arms semi-auto Uzi with a 16" barrel and the folding stock. Both were 100% reliable, accurate, well built/durable, and a blast to shoot. The Uzi was easier to field-strip and clean, had higher capacity mags, and had the Ruger beat in the coolness dept., but the Ruger did have a little better trigger.


nero

444
September 2, 2006, 02:09 PM
"444: I think the upper you have is ported to lower the velocity? "

Yes, but IMO it doesn't work very well.
With some loads the velocity is WAY too low.
With other loads, like some of my handloads with 124 grain bullet, the bullets are supersonic.
He says that this upper is made to be used with 115 grain bullets, so I guess I should just stick with that but I wouldn't buy something like this again.

Walkalong
November 27, 2006, 06:43 PM
I've got a Kel-Tec and a CX4 Storm and I like them both. The CX4 has versatility going for it. The Kel-Tec has portability going for it. Both shoot pretty good. My CCU is a .45

Keith Wheeler
November 27, 2006, 10:56 PM
I'll second the Uzi. Caliber conversion is easy (.45, .22, .40, even .41AE if you like roll your own oddball ammo). Rock solid, plenty of parts, mags, accessories, suppressors, web gear, history. A bunch of German surplus 32 round IMI made mags just came in, $15 each -- IMI Uzi mags are second only to Brit L2A3 mags in the reliability department, as far as I'm concerned.

For all you tacticool types, you can get all sorts of nifty stick on stuff, bayonets, scope mounts, rails, different colored furniture.

Oh, and don't forget a registered bolt if you want to spend the big bucks, there are still a few out there.

I've got a Vector full size Uzi and a Norinco 320 (the Chinese copy). My wife has a Vector mini Uzi carbine. They work fine with everything from 147gr sub sonic to WWB to +P+ subgun ammo. Some Vector guns have quality issues -- but they will stand behind them and make them work.

It is easier to clear rooms with a smaller platform than a larger platform, so pistols are easier in this regard than carbines.

SBR. Problem solved. Takes longer to fill out the paperwork than change the barrel on an Uzi.

For me there's the added joy of owning firearms with "Israel" on the side of them (but not all Vectors use IMI receivers, some are Group Industries). The Hebrew marked safety is just a wonderful bonus.

Heavier than the newer civilian type options, but you just can't beat the wide range of accessories. You can do far more with an Uzi than just about any other pistol caliber carbine I can think of. And they go bang every time you pull the trigger. Only downside is that with the IMI, Group Industry, Norinco, Vector, full size, mini, and pistol variants out there, they get addictive!

(I'm sure the 9mm AR variants are great too, but I've never had the chance to handle one.)

selector67
November 28, 2006, 04:29 AM
I have a Calico 9mm and its a really fun gun to shoot, once you get use to the sights its fairly accurate, the only drawback to it is the magazines are so expensive about a $150 each, at that price I guess I will have to be content with my hundred round mag :D

ArfinGreebly
November 28, 2006, 05:11 AM
by Steelcore

I have a
Marlin Camp
Beretta Storm
Ruger PC9

I've been thinking about selling all of them and buying an Olympic Glock mag carbine.

You serious about that Marlin Camp 9? Wanna PM me on that?

Mine's a dream. Came equipped with Ballistic Intuition. I don't even have to aim -- it knows what it's supposed to hit. :)

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