Is .380 the same as .38 super?


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fast97rs
April 24, 2006, 04:46 PM
As stated...

I'm a bit new and am looking at buying a Walther PPK to acompany my 1911 for beach days....

Is .380 the same as .38super?


Thanks


Jorgy

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foghornl
April 24, 2006, 04:50 PM
In one word...No

.38 super is a longer casing (brass cartrdige) than the .380, generates hgiher pressures when fired.

Starter52
April 24, 2006, 04:54 PM
They both have the same bullet diameter, but that's about it.

The .38 Super is much more powerful than the .380. The muzzle energy is about double.

Bad Flynch
April 24, 2006, 05:00 PM
In addition to what you have been told: .380ACP (Automatic Colt Pistol) is the 9mm Kurtz and the 9mm Corto (Kurtz & Corto = short).

fast97rs
April 24, 2006, 05:07 PM
Thanks guys...

So... what do you boys think about a Walther PPK/S in .380 as a carry gun? My fiance also wants one, but I don't know much about the .380 and was wondering if its a decent self defense cartridge....


Jorgy

Kevinch
April 24, 2006, 05:12 PM
I think most people will tell you that a .380ACP is about the minimum in a defense cartridge; You can find a lot of discussion on that here at THR. I sometimes carry a Colt Mustang in .380 during the summer & have never felt I wasn't adequately armed.

As for the PPK/S, they are good guns. You will find they might be a little heavy in weight, with relatively stiff DA trigger pulls when compared to some of the competition.

isp2605
April 24, 2006, 05:28 PM
Kurtz was the Colonel in Apocalypse Now played by Marlon Brando.
Kurz means short.

fast97rs
April 24, 2006, 07:07 PM
I think most people will tell you that a .380ACP is about the minimum in a defense cartridge; You can find a lot of discussion on that here at THR. I sometimes carry a Colt Mustang in .380 during the summer & have never felt I wasn't adequately armed.

As for the PPK/S, they are good guns. You will find they might be a little heavy in weight, with relatively stiff DA trigger pulls when compared to some of the competition.


well... i have gotten used to carrying a full sized S/A Loaded 1911 w/ 7+1....

What would you suppose is competition for the PPK? Not trying to be a smart a$$.... just trying to learn.... maybee I can find something else that suits my needs.....


Jorgy

Detritus
April 24, 2006, 07:13 PM
Kurtz was the Colonel in Apocalypse Now played by Marlon Brando.
Kurz means short.


Or if you ever read Heart of Darkness by Joseph Conrad (the basis for Apocalypse Now), Kurtz, the ivory trader gone native, is about 6'2" and rail thin.

AndyC
April 24, 2006, 07:20 PM
The smaller the caliber, the better you have to be - and luckier, too. I've never felt undergunned with a .380 and the PPK is a really nice pistol (lousy sights, but hey - we're typically talking a few yards distance in self-defence anyway).

Detritus
April 24, 2006, 07:22 PM
What would you suppose is competition for the PPK? Not trying to be a smart a$$.... just trying to learn.... maybee I can find something else that suits my needs.....


the Bersa Thunder comes to mind for one example. My wife's thunder has a better DA trigger pull than the walthers i've handled, and it costs less.

in truth i find the DA triggers of both the PPK and the Thunder to be heavier than i'd really like. but then again i don't intend to carry either one, i have no need currently to cram a CCW into a small space. and frankly i'm too spoiled to 1911 types :D

fast97rs
April 24, 2006, 07:23 PM
Would any of you point me to rather carry a J frame in .38+P?

Just thinking about that now....


Jorgy

Carl N. Brown
April 24, 2006, 07:27 PM
.380 ACP is little brother to the .38 ACP.
Both are John Moses Browning babies.
The hot version of .38 ACP was called .38 Super.
While you cannot chamber .38 Super in .380 ACP
you can chamber i.38 Super in a .38 ACP pistol, which
is the equivalent of shooting .357 mag in .38 spl.

There was also a 200 gr bullet load for .38S&W revolver
called .38 Super Police, but it is a revolver round.

Does that clarify or confuse?

bentwrench
April 24, 2006, 07:31 PM
I would.the 642 smitty is a great little gun,but thats a whoooooooole nuther thead.look it up
the bentwench

isp2605
April 24, 2006, 07:56 PM
"There was also a 200 gr bullet load for .38S&W revolver
called .38 Super Police, but it is a revolver round.
Does that clarify or confuse?"

The 200 gr Police rd was for the .38 Spl, not .38 S&W. It would barely clock 600 fps out of a 4" barrel. Still have some around here somewhere.
The usual US loading for the .38 S&W was a 146 gr. It was also loaded by the British which they called the .38-200 and by other names.

MICHAEL T
April 25, 2006, 01:32 AM
I carry a PPK/S a lot and see nothing wrong with it . I like the 380 from a PPK/S. Bersa size pistol. I feel no less armed with a PPK/S than I do with a J frame Smith and the PPK has a few more rounds. The DA trigger first round is heavy . But try a Beretta Tomcat and the PPK/S will be light.

fast97rs
April 25, 2006, 02:42 AM
Are there any 1911 type safties so that I may carry cocked back? Eliminating the first round double action shot?


Jorgy

Carl N. Brown
April 25, 2006, 02:43 PM
There were "Super Police" 200 gr bullet loads for both .38 Special
AND .38 S&W. That's where the ".38/200" in the Brit .38 S&W
came from.

Sylvan-Forge
April 25, 2006, 02:51 PM
SIG P-232

Beretta 80 series

CZ 83

Sphinx AT 380



Some that are smaller in frame/grip size, as well as lighter :

Kel-Tec P32

SeeCamp LWS

Frandy
April 25, 2006, 04:13 PM
We all have our favorites. I shoot my 232 quite a bit at the range and I shoot much more accurately with it (and faster) than my 640 S&W. As a result, I continue to carry my 232 (my alternate CCW to my 1911, when appropriate) and the 640 just might go up for sale.


Oh, and this photo might make the 232 look like bling, but it is a solid performer.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=37688&d=1143567586

ball3006
April 25, 2006, 04:52 PM
check out a Kel Tec 3AT..................Small, light, easy to shoot. You gotta remember, most perps don't want a hole punched in their hide, no matter how big, or little. As Mr Lott says, most confratations end up with the trigger not being pulled.........chris3

MCgunner
April 25, 2006, 06:05 PM
What would you suppose is competition for the PPK? Not trying to be a smart a$$.... just trying to learn.... maybee I can find something else that suits my needs.....

Personally, I cannot justify a PPK size .380 when you can get any of various accurate, powerful 9mm Luger caliber firearms that are as small or smaller from Glock, Kahr, Taurus, Kel Tec, to name a few. To me, a .380 needs to be Kel Tec P3 AT tiny to justify the caliber. It's about the biggest blow back cartridge and chambered in some tiny pocket pistols, though the Kel Tec and Colt Mustangs are locked breech designs.

So, to answer your competition question look at the various Kahrs, Glock 26, Kel Tec P11 and PM9 (or what ever that new single stack is), Taurus Millennium 111, etc. The Bersa and such larger frame .380s are "competition" in that they're .380s, but the compact nines offer more gun in a smaller package.

vynx
April 27, 2006, 07:27 PM
Fast97rs

the colt gov't .380 has a safty almost like a 1911 - it doesn't have a notch cut in the slide but it functions the same. There is no grip saty either.

Its a buit longer than a mustang - what I like is the extra 1/2 inch of grip means you can sqeeze a third finger on. I think the grip is the same as the colt mustang +2?

Oh, it is also much smaller than many other .380's and much thinner. But, you have to find them used and the price is going up.

Deanimator
April 28, 2006, 02:38 PM
So... what do you boys think about a Walther PPK/S in .380 as a carry gun?
It's the minimum. I used to own one. It was a nice gun. However it wasn't a cheap gun. Use that to weigh your alternatives.

For what you're going to pay for a new PPK/S, you could pay the same or a little more for a compact 9x19mm of some kind, at least if you shop carefully.

There seem to be quite a few Star B(K)Ms around these days. They're a very compact 9x19mm pistol at a VERY attractive price. They're not a whole lot bigger than a PPK/S, and WAY more effective. The PPK/S is a blowback pistol. The imposes serious limitations on the power of the ammunition it fires. The Star is a locked breech pistol, just like an M1911 or a Browning Hi Power.

There are of course plenty of other 9x19mm and .40S&W alternatives. It just depends upon what you're willing and able to spend.

Crosshair
April 29, 2006, 02:20 AM
Some people like to bash small caliber guns, but a saying that I like describes the situation well.

"A 22 in hand beats a .45 in the safe at home."

The simple fact is that we can't always carry a .45 everywhere and sometimes sacrifices need to be made.

Zen21Tao
April 29, 2006, 05:35 AM
Would any of you point me to rather carry a J frame in .38+P?

Just thinking about that now....

You said that you are used to a full size 1911 so you must like .45acp. I have an AMT Backup .45acp that makes a great little pocket gun. It gives you 5+1 rounds of .45acp in roughly the same size as the walther ppk.

AMT (left hand side) side-by-side with full size 1911s
http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/2310/amtwith1911s7ye.jpg

ugaarguy
April 29, 2006, 08:50 AM
Fast97rs, take a look at the pistols on the chart in this post; http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=171820. Note that it's a pocket auto comparison chart and the Taurus Milleniums, Glock 26/27/33, Walther PPK/S, and several other were slightly too large for the criteria :what: . If you want a super light, super small carry piece there are some great options out there. The PPK and PPK/S are fine pistols, and they are classics with well earned reputations. However, I think recent pistol design has produced some better options.

Deanimator
April 29, 2006, 10:30 AM
The simple fact is that we can't always carry a .45 everywhere and sometimes sacrifices need to be made.
Actually these days, unless you can't afford the gun, you CAN.
It's tough to imagine a non-law enforcement situation where you could carry a PPK/S, but NOT a Springfield MicroCompact.

MCgunner
April 29, 2006, 11:18 AM
You said that you are used to a full size 1911 so you must like .45acp. I have an AMT Backup .45acp that makes a great little pocket gun. It gives you 5+1 rounds of .45acp in roughly the same size as the walther ppk.

Isn't that AMT a tad heavy for pocket carry? I think I'd rather be packin' my 14 ounce 11 round Kel Tec P11 in 9mm loaded with +Ps, myself.

There are other .45ACP guns that are quite compact, though, but I don't think I'd go 1911. Full sized 1911s in my purchasing range far as price goes are iffy enough in reliability as it is, not that they can't be fixed. But, I hear a lot about small frame, short barrel 1911s lack of reliability, typically. I admit to the fact that I've never actuallly owned one, though, just going on hear-say. You can't always believe what you hear on the boards, believe it or not.:D But, I'd rather have a good 9mm +P hollowpoint and more of 'em than have to rely on FMJ ball ammo for self defense. That's sorta why I've chilled on the idea of .45 for compacts, especially of 1911 design. I will shoot 'em in full sized autos, what they were designed for. I already own a nice 9mm sub-compact which I shoot rather well and am confident in. It's a lot handier and easier to carry, too, than any .45.

Zen21Tao
April 29, 2006, 03:03 PM
Isn't that AMT a tad heavy for pocket carry? I think I'd rather be packin' my 14 ounce 11 round Kel Tec P11 in 9mm loaded with +Ps, myself.

Its not really that bad. Unloaded it weighs about 24oz which is on par with a Khar 40. Yes it does weighs more than a keltec or a light weight revolver but in stable holster that keeps it from moving around it becomes hardly noticable after a while. Plus, fast97rs was using the walther ppk, which is about 20-21oz, as a reference point. To me .45acp compared to .380acp for only 3-4oz more is well worth the trade off.

I'd rather have a good 9mm +P hollowpoint and more of 'em than have to rely on FMJ ball ammo for self defense. That's sorta why I've chilled on the idea of .45 for compacts, especially of 1911 design.

What makes ball ammo necessary in most 1911 is their lack of a feedramp. As for my AMT it is DAO not SA like a 1911. It also does have a feedramp so JHP ammo is not a problem. I must admit though, my first choices for CCW are my Glock 29 10mm and my Sig P238 .40 S&W carried IWB. But when they can't be carried my AMT is a fine substitue.

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