Is this a Hand Ejector? What should I do with it?

[MatthewVanitas]

Picked this revolver up today in a deal with a "broken" Beretta .25. The little Beretta Jetfire has a piece of wire visibly protruding from the left grips, and the slide was under no spring pressure. So I bought the two together for $175, took the Beretta out to my car, used a ballpoint pent to jimmy the loose wire into a notch in the slide. Turns out that the wire was indeed the "recoil spring" in this little blowback, so now it works great.

More problematic is the issue of this revolver. It has the S&W trademark on the right faceplate, and marked as follows:

38 S&W SPECIAL
& U.S. SERVICE CTG'S

Serial number on butt reads 299XX, number inside yoke reads 1681. Both DA and SA are good, and lockup when engaged is nice and tight. Is very grungy overall but seems solid. Has maybe about 20% of nickel finish remaining, mostly on backstrap and yoke.

So, is this a Hand Ejector? If so, what year? Does it have any collector value, or should I just oil it up, stoke it with low-pressure SWC and keep it as a tertiary backup? Did I get taken on the price for these two pistols?

Thanks much, -MV

[ugaarguy]

What are the letters on the serial # prefix? That will help the S&W experts here get you more detailed info. To answer your questin, yes that it is a M&P hand ejector of some variety, but I am not among the above mentioned S&W experts here on THR - so thats all I know about identifying it. I will guess by the large knob on the end of the ejector rod that its an earlier model M&P. The "US SERVICE CTG'S marking makes me think this was a WWI era gun. If the lock up is tight, from what I've been told, you can shoot +P loads in the old M&Ps since they are a large steel frame modern S&W revolver. It was told to shoot standard pressure 158 grn lead from mine for practice and that it would handle +P loads for defense just fine. I could be totally wrong and the S&W experts will be along shortly to set me strait. Overall a functional S&W M&P revolver and a Beretta Jet Fire that also ended up working but needs grips is a good deal at $175 in my opinion. Other than the grips what kinda shape is the Beretta in?

Edit to add: The finish is bad on the M&P but its mechanically sound and the Jet Fire needs grips but is otherwise mechanically sound. So you got two proven design pistols from two well established manufacturers for $175 -- sounds like a real good deal to me even if they just end up being knock around spares.

[Ol Retired Gunney]

But if the S&W has a good barrel it will bring 100 to 150 so you did GOOD!

[Jim Watson]

Flayderman says it is a S&W .38 Hand Ejector, M&P Second Model made
only 1902-1903. He does not mention calibre markings like that, though.

I'd show it on
http://www.smith-wessonforum.com/
in the S&W Revolvers 1857-1945 section.

Do NOT shoot +P ammo in it, they had only been using smokeless powder about two years when that gun was made.

[MatthewVanitas]

Thanks much JW. Good deal, will have to go post it on the S&W forum to get some further insight. I just want to find out whether it's of historical interest to anyone (despite its beat cosmetics) before I use it as a low-pressure plinker.

IRT the Beretta: the grips are actually OK, it's just that the recoil-spring protrudes out from the grips when not fit into its notch in the slide. While messing around w/ the Beretta, I figured out how the previous owner had probably gotten it futzed: if you open the tip-up barrel and then try to retract the slide, the slide is able to tilt slightly, allowing the wire-spring to come loose. Just takes half a mo with any pointy object to slide it back into its notch, but apparently there are folks out there even less mechanically apt than I. Finish is patinaed, and Bubba did some dehorning on the front, but so long as it launches lead, I'm happy for the $50 or so I have into it. You can barely buy a used Lorcin at that price, and the Beretta feels most solid in the paw.


-MV

[ugaarguy]

MV,

Well I was partially right on your M&P. As I figured, someone, JW in this case, corrected the parts I was ignorant on.

I'm happy for the $50 or so I have into it. You can barely buy a used Lorcin at that price, and the Beretta feels most solid in the paw.
-Amen

As for that little Beretta I'd be tempted to replace the recoil spring just in case. I'm sure www.brownells.com will have one at good price. Since its already been kitchen-table-gunsmith dehorned; if it was me I'd get a can of teflon or silicone based bake on gun "spray paint" from Brownells and turn that little Jet Fire into a rust resistant humidity proof summer pocket gun. Just thought I'd throw that idea out there.

[ssteven1]

That is a military and police (M&P) 2nd model (model of 1902), the M&P was the fixed sighted version of the hand ejector. It was made in 1902-1903 most likley in 1902. There were 12,827 of this model made starting with #20976. The 38 S&W special and US service ctg marking are normal for this Model. The 38 special just became avaliable in 1902. The US service ctg at the time was the 38 long colt wich was more widely known. It would help S&W to have a widely avaliable ammo for their new gun but they were not going to put the colt name on their gun. The grip are hard rubber and are a little fragile now. I recomend replacing them when you shoot. Any round butt k frame grips will work on the gun. The gun was made for smokeless powder so you can shoot modern ammo in it. However the cylinder for these gun were not heat treated until the mid 1920 so keep the ammo on the light side with perferably lead bullets (no p+). Wadcutters have a mild kick and can still be used for self defence. If you decide to strip it down be aware that the internals are different than the more modern version and parts are a little hard to come by so don't lose any. In the condition that your is in it does not have any real collector value I would keep it and shoot a part of history. Take it easy on the old girl, shoot and have fun.
The standard catalog of Smith and Wesson second edition by Supica and Nahas is a great refrence of you get to colleting old smiths. Supica post on the smith and wesson forum frequently.

[XavierBreath]

You have a S&W .38 Hand Ejector, Military & Police 2nd Model of 1902.

It looks to be a correct, unmolested, but weathered nickel gun with the original grips. If you decide to remove the grips, be very careful, they are often fragile and sometimes crack with the releasing of tension or the pushing off the lower pin. There may be a serial number scratched inside one grip matching them to the gun.

In today's market, assuming the reverse of the gun is similar, the bore is decent, and the lockwork has no problems, your gun should bring between $250 and 350 depending on the buyer's motivation. Supica's prices from SCS&W 2nd Edition (http://xavierthoughts.blogspot.com/2005/11/standard-catalog-of-smith-wesson.html) lists it as VG $450; Good $275; Fair $200.

Have your revolver checked by a gunsmith prior to shooting it. Use low pressure rounds, the heat treating was not as refined in 1902 as it is today.

ssteven1 is correct on the lockwork. Disassemby should be done very carefully and only if necessary. The parts are different and scarce. There is no sliding rebound block, but rather a pivoting piece that works off a second leaf spring. Every part n the lockwork is different, although they appear the same on the outside.

What should you do with it? Shoot it if it is safe and if you want to. Put it away to fondle if you like. Keep it oiled and preserve it. It's a piece of history. It's really more a case of what NOT to do. Do not shoot +P ammo. Do not refinish it. Do not buff it on a wire wheel. Do not use steel wool on it.

You can get it lettered (http://xavierthoughts.blogspot.com/2006/01/collectors-treasure.html) if you like, for $30, and the results may be interesting.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=38930&stc=1&d=1145970934
Here is a pic of a 1899 M&P lockwork, which I believe is identical to the Model of 1902.

[MatthewVanitas]

Just a little update on this old thread:

Dear Mr [Vanitas],

The revolver about which you inquired in your letter of recent date is the .38 Hand Ejefctor, Military and Police... Secondy Model or Model of 1902. This modification occurred in 1902 and was produced until 1903 with a total production of 12,827 revolvers... records which indicate that your handgun, with serial number 29XXX, was shipped from our factory on May 9, 1903 and deliverd to Witte Hardware Co., St. Louis MO. The records indicate that this handgun was shipped with a 4 inch barrel, nickel finish, and checkered black hard rubber grips...

Sincerely,

SMITH AND WESSON

Roy G. Jinks
Historian

[Majic]

Just so you will know any S&W revolver with a swing out cylinder is a Hand Ejector (your hand is used to operate the ejector).

[Jim Watson]

Yup.
The Internet Experts who tell you the difference between a clip and a magazine, and hooraw the mention of an "automatic revolver" lack the background to know that the reference was to automatic ejection of a top break revolver; and does not necessarily mean the rare Webley-Fosberry.