An Interesting Story From The Sandbox


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Thefabulousfink
April 25, 2006, 11:27 AM
Here's an example of quick thinking and ingenuity from our boys "over there." Found it in "Stars & Stripes" so it might be a little biased, but I doubt that it is fake.
http://www.stripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=35791&archive=true
Wrong number: Interpreter answers cell phone, dupes insurgents


By Jeff Schogol, Stars and Stripes
Mideast edition, Saturday, April 22, 2006



Jeff Schogol / S&S
Sgt. Nicholas Hake-Jordan, 23, of 1st Battalion, 68th Armor, from Springfield, Ore., holds a new sniper rifle seized during a patrol that also yielded one dead insurgent thanks to a sly interpreter.


IBRAHIM AL MARKHUR, Iraq — One misplaced cell phone and one savvy interpreter equaled one dead insurgent, several pieces of intelligence and a whole lot of captured weapons.

On a routine patrol, U.S. troops with 1st Battalion, 68th Armor came upon a house in the midst of dense greenery and at the end of a dusty country road.

Staff Sgt. Matthew Nicodemus, 33, said he immediately noticed that no Iraqi men were around.

Suddenly, a cell phone inside the home rang, said Nicodemus, of Altoona, Pa.

“The interpreter went in and answered the phone, and on the other end of the phone the person said, in Arabic, ‘Hey, coalition forces are here, go ahead and run away,’ and he specifically said, ‘Go and run into the palm groves all around here,’ ” Nicodemus said.

The troops then fanned out into the palm groves and found several weapons including several rocket-propelled grenades and hand grenades, two AK-47s and a new sniper’s rifle, Nicodemus said.

They also found a hand-written map of a U.S. military base, diagrams on how to build rockets and a CD-ROM with several thousand files written in Arabic, said Sgt. 1st Class Michael Greer, 35, of San Luis Obispo, Calif.

If that weren’t enough, the insurgent kept calling the interpreter back to ask what the Americans were doing.

The interpreter kept the act going.

“He’s basically acting like, you know, he’s watching us ... making sure everything is fine,” Nicodemus said.

The U.S. troops knew the insurgents were coming back and decided to lie in wait for them.

Many troops said they were psyched by the prospect of killing the person on the other end of the phone.

“I love this [expletive],” said Sgt. Nicholas Hake-Jordan, 23, of Springfield, Ore.

The troops didn’t have to wait long.

Shortly after U.S. troops set up, the insurgents called the interpreter and said they would be by in about 10 minutes to attack the Americans, said Staff Sgt. Art Hoffman, 30.

When seven insurgents got to the house, they ran into a wall of U.S. fire, said Hoffman, of Baltimore.

“The first guy that came in the door just dropped like a rock. The other two guys behind him got hit pretty hard, too. The rest grabbed their wounded and just ran back off,” said Hoffman.

One insurgent was confirmed killed in the fighting and the other two were in bad shape, he said.

Afterward, the battalion commander, Lt. Col. Thomas Fisher, 42, praised his soldiers’ actions.

“The initiative demonstrated at the platoon level is exactly how you win this fight,” said Fisher, of Sioux Falls, S.D.

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foghornl
April 25, 2006, 11:33 AM
WORKS 4 ME ! ! ! !

AJ Dual
April 25, 2006, 12:29 PM
Hee hee...

A simple two-part passphrase to initiate any unsecured coms, with a secondary duress signal, would have saved those guys a world of hurt.

"Ali?"
"Baba..." (Yes, it's really me, go ahead.)

-OR-

"Ali?"
"Camel!" (I'm at gunpoint, do the exact opposite of what I say..)

We're obviously not fighting a bunch of rocket scientits or brain surgeons over there.

I wonder what the "sniper rifle" was, an SVD or Romak type?

MuzzleBlast
April 25, 2006, 01:23 PM
HOO-WAH!

pete f
April 25, 2006, 01:32 PM
I am sorry, dedicated ambush, US troops know location and time, and we get one KIA and two wounded, not the results I would have expected. I know it is hard to MMQ, but I would have suspected better.

Thefabulousfink
April 25, 2006, 01:38 PM
I know it is not a crushing military defeat, but any action that makes it more dificult for the insugents to operate is a victory in my book. It would have been better if they had hidden a claymore or two outside the doorway to catch them as they retreated.

V4Vendetta
April 25, 2006, 01:50 PM
Here's my question.

Why didn't they try to capture anybody for information? I was reading "Secret Commando's" last night by John Plaster who was a Green Beret & member of SOG. According to his book, at one time they captured a NVA truck driver who provided plenty of information & they didn't have the equipment that exists now*. Why didn't these soldiers do that?:confused: I'm not trying to be mean, I'm just wondering.


*Tasers, etc.

Preacherman
April 25, 2006, 02:46 PM
Methinks they'll be rather more distrustful of people on the other end of their cellphones from now on . . . :evil:

Correia
April 25, 2006, 02:54 PM
You want US troops to taser the bad guys?

Wow. I really don't know how to respond to that.

For those of you questioning how well the ambush went, frankly, you don't have a clue, and you weren't there.

Cosmoline
April 25, 2006, 02:57 PM
Tasers? What are you smoking :D These guys are the worst of the worst. They'd just as soon cut your head off as look at you. They also have a tendency to BLOW UP when cornered if you dont' kill them first. Our guys did great in the circumstances.

V4Vendetta
April 25, 2006, 03:05 PM
"They also have a tendency to BLOW UP when cornered if you dont' kill them first."

I didn't think of that.

"You want US troops to taser the bad guys? Wow. I really don't know how to respond to that."


I didn't say they had to use Tasers. I was just asking why they didn't try to capture a BG for info. I realize that they already had info on the computers but information is like ammo. There is never enough.:D

Lupinus
April 25, 2006, 03:05 PM
ven please tell me you don't seriously think our guys need to be walking around over there with tazers :banghead:

CypherNinja
April 25, 2006, 03:17 PM
Taser? How about a Saiga 12 loaded with 11 rounds of birdshot? :evil:

V4Vendetta
April 25, 2006, 03:32 PM
Are you guys getting too dumb to read my posts before you mock me?:fire: . I never said that they HAD to use Tasers. They are other means of disabling someone without killing them. We have had countless threads about this. Batons, rubber shotgun rounds, etc. And those are just things that we civilians can own. I have no doubt that the Army folks get stuff 100 times better than we get.

AJ Dual
April 25, 2006, 03:41 PM
It's funny how minds work. V merely meant to Tazer them to capture them via non-lethal means.

But everyone's initial impression, (mine too) wat that he meant to repeatedly shock them to extract intel. That says lots more about us and the assumptions we make than it does about V... :( Sorry.

V,

Tasering the insurgents seems like a good idea, but in practice, a Taser wouldn't work well in a fluid combat situation. The range is limited, and you only get one shot. The Taser only works well in static police situations where a non-compliant or threatening suspect is cornered, or not moving a lot.

A fluid battlefront where everyone's running and shooting, and actualy getting a hit on an insurgent with the wires is probably a million-to-one shot.

DevLcL
April 25, 2006, 03:51 PM
Okay... :confused: Well back to the original topic. They did a great job. I wonder if the reason they didn't kill all the insurgents is because they threw down their weapon or slung it over their backs. Maybe they realised they were $%^#& and they decided to just pick up the pieces and go home.

V4Vendetta
April 25, 2006, 03:57 PM
"V merely meant to Tazer them to capture them via non-lethal means."

Bingo.

"But everyone's initial impression, (mine too) was that he meant to repeatedly shock them to extract intel."

If we were that desperate for information, I'd simply threaten to place a piece of Jimmy Dean sausage on his head. The muslim religion says that once they have touched pig, they will still burn in hell even if they die as martyrs:evil: .

Thin Black Line
April 25, 2006, 04:07 PM
Many troops said they were psyched by the prospect of killing the person on the other end of the phone.


How about "The troops' adrenaline surged as they relished the thought of
payback"???

striker3
April 25, 2006, 04:07 PM
We used the interpreter on the phone tactics last time I was over there, isn't really anything new. The only danger is that sometimes phones can be rigged to blow up. Like everything else, it is a gamble.

I don't know what the regulations on claymores are now, but when I was over there this last winter, we had to have high level approval to even be issued claymores. I cannot say exactly how high, as I do not know, but it was higher than our MEU commander who was a Colonel.

As far as using non-lethal weapons on insurgents goes, who is going to carry that crap on top of their lethal weapons and ammo? When your average load is pushing 80-100lbs for a normal foot patrol, that extra weight adds up quickly. I have no problem carrying things that matter, but I really do not think that the use of non-lethal weapons in an enviroment where your opponents are using lethal weapons is a good tacticl judgment.

V4Vendetta
April 25, 2006, 04:20 PM
"I really do not think that the use of non-lethal weapons in an enviroment where your opponents are using lethal weapons is a good tacticl judgment."


I never said that they should just carry LTL equipment. By all means have plenty of frag grenades on hand. What all do they make you carry that weighs 100 pounds?:confused:

El Tejon
April 25, 2006, 04:34 PM
"Yes, Omar, I would like to make a jihadist to jihadist call.":D

striker3
April 25, 2006, 04:57 PM
"I really do not think that the use of non-lethal weapons in an enviroment where your opponents are using lethal weapons is a good tacticl judgment."


I never said that they should just carry LTL equipment. By all means have plenty of frag grenades on hand. What all do they make you carry that weighs 100 pounds?

I never assumed that you thought they should carry less than lethal only, just that I did not think the benefits of carrying LTL would outweigh the downfall of carrying more crap than what we already have.

As far as where all the weight we carry comes from, it comes from protective gear, ammo, weapons, water, and comm gear. Just the interceptor and helmet alone break 30 lbs. Add to that our ammo, plus any crew served weapon ammo that you may be lugging, demo, pyro and frags. Each item in and of itself does not weigh a lot, but put it all on at once and it will add up.

Now, to get back on topic, I think that 1 enemy KIA with 2 or more wounded at a cost of ZERO US casualties is not a bad ambush at all.

Dr.Rob
April 25, 2006, 05:00 PM
candygram...

ACORN
April 25, 2006, 05:41 PM
OMG!!! I can see the news. You mean we actually used a cell phone to lure the enemy into slaughter? There must be an investigation! Heads must roll! People must pay!
We should have just invited them back in for some tea and cookies and asked them to give up.

Thefabulousfink
April 25, 2006, 05:54 PM
They did ask them to give up, they sent them polite initations to quit fighting with at least one of their names engraved on the back of the 55gr FMJ:evil:

AJ Dual
April 25, 2006, 06:01 PM
candygram...

(knock knock) U.S..., I mean... UNICEF!

YellowLab
April 25, 2006, 07:43 PM
Good show fellas!

I can't believe that the US is not 1. jamming all cell phones (I doubt they had them under Saddam) or 2. tap every call. I mean if GPS phones ever had a time and place its over there.

Imagine.... Johnny Jihad get a call.. tap shows he's talking about an attack. GPS corridinates automatically load into JDAMs on station. Gives a whole new meaning to the 'line went dead'. :evil:

CoastieTech
April 25, 2006, 09:36 PM
Sgt. Nicholas Hake-Jordan, 23, of 1st Battalion, 68th Armor, from Springfield, Ore., holds a new sniper rifle seized during a patrol that also yielded one dead insurgent thanks to a sly interpreter.


I'm almost positive that 1-68 Armor is not from Ohio. They are part of the 4ID 3RD Brigade Combat Team stationed at Ft.Carson. This caught my attention because 1-68 supported my unit, 3-29 FA, at Ft. Carson. If there is more than one unit by this name I am unaware and I apologize for the misqoute. I did a little research and came up with this link of their history. (http://www.carson.army.mil/3HBCT/) As for the story I wish our interpreters would have been that much help when I was over there.

MTMilitiaman
April 25, 2006, 09:55 PM
Good show fellas!

I can't believe that the US is not 1. jamming all cell phones (I doubt they had them under Saddam) or 2. tap every call. I mean if GPS phones ever had a time and place its over there.

Imagine.... Johnny Jihad get a call.. tap shows he's talking about an attack. GPS corridinates automatically load into JDAMs on station. Gives a whole new meaning to the 'line went dead'.

LOL.

I have to imagine the military intel guys are doing something over there. Is it possible that there is just too much cell phone activity over there to keep up with it all?

BullfrogKen
April 26, 2006, 01:17 AM
V4Vendetta said: I was reading "Secret Commando's" last night by John Plaster who was a Green Beret & member of SOG. According to his book, at one time they captured a NVA truck driver . . .

Dude . . . DUDE . . . DUDE . . . where's my car?

Are you really comparing capturing a Motor T, er . . . OK, that means truck driver . . . the capture of a guy driving a truck to . . . attempting the capture of seven guys actively hunting for you?

V4Vendetta said: Are you guys getting too dumb to read my posts before you mock me?

Questions like this are lightning rods for smart-@$$ responses, because they reflect the ignorance of the inquiry.


You know . . . like if they had a gun like the BFG like they have in the computer game DOOM, they'd all be dead . . . or . . . if they had pigs with wings . . . they could fly overhead and crap on them . . . and then they'd be so mortified . . . they'd all kill themselves.

Comments suggesting they respond to a hunting party with less than lethal force sounds just as ridiculous as those. Here V4 . . . Here's some ether in a glass jar, and a taser . . . and a shotgun. I'm bringing some friends over in a few minutes armed with rifles to hunt for you. Which would you choose?

Consider that the troops actually RESPONDED with deadly force, probably OVERWHELMING, and netted . . .

1 dead, 2 WOUNDED. The rest got away. Proving even "lethal force" isn't always lethal.

Lighting up these fellas in an "Oh ***** . . . Ambush!!!" still didn't kill all them. That's what happens in the fog of war. Even something that seems as simple as shooting fish in a barrel isn't guaranteed to give you a trout for dinner.



I mean this in the best of ways, really I do . . . but when you pose questions that reflect both ignorance of experience, and the absence of forethought, on a site filled with folks bearing painfully earned knowledge and good judgement learned from years of mistakes . . . Expect people to react with a *** and WHO are YOU? response.

Monday morning Q-backing a wartime event with . . . "Why didn't they do this? . . . I read this in a book . . ." sounds like guys we ridicule who don't have any experience and tell the grizzled vet how he should do things because . . . that's what it says it should be done in that book.

Stainless Chili
April 26, 2006, 01:36 AM
If they are carrying out their "wounded" we don't have a clear idea of their KIA.

Personally, I'd like to see Warthogs criss-cross the country into a checkerboard of smaller and smaller squares.

.41Dave
April 26, 2006, 06:41 AM
I'd simply threaten to place a piece of Jimmy Dean sausage on his head. The muslim religion says that once they have touched pig, they will still burn in hell even if they die as martyrs .

I'm not sure where people get this ridiculous idea, but Islam actually says no such thing.

High Planes Drifter
April 26, 2006, 09:20 AM
I'm not sure where people get this ridiculous idea, but Islam actually says no such thing.
--------------------------------------------

I think alot of folks get it from the incident involving General Pershing who was the Military Governor of More Province, Philipines (just before WW1)when they started receiving terrorist attacks from muslim extremists. From what I understand, he ordered that the 50 or so captured islamic terrorists dig one large mass grave, then had them tied to posts execution style. Next he had his troops bring in 2 hogs and slaughter them in front of the muslims. The troops were ordered to coat bullets in the pigs blood and fat before executing the prisoners. Once executed, the muslims' bodies were dumped into the mass grave and the slaughtered pigs were dumped on top of thier bodies before filling the grave. From what I understand, he let one of the terrorists go to tell the tale of horror (muslims detest pork/pigs). No more terrorist attacks in the Philipines for the next 40 or so years.

V4Vendetta
April 26, 2006, 09:57 AM
"sounds like guys we ridicule who don't have any experience and tell the grizzled vet how he should do things because"

I never told any vets how to do anything. I merely asked a logical question.

High Planes Drifter, you hit exactly what I heard.

Justin
April 26, 2006, 11:32 AM
I never told any vets how to do anything. I merely asked a logical question.

You have got to be kidding me.

V4Vendetta
April 26, 2006, 12:16 PM
Never mind:rolleyes: . Just forget it.

Just_a_dude_with_a_gun
April 26, 2006, 12:26 PM
V for Vacant,


You have to get close to tazer, so that is a stupid, ridiculous idea. In an impending firefight, no one in their right mind is going to volunteer to shoot anything less than the biggest freaking bullets they can get.

Thefabulousfink
April 26, 2006, 12:46 PM
Hey, let it go!

V4Vendetta, just posted something without thinking it through from every angle and now he has spent the last few post trying to dig himself out of a hole. All you guys are doing is throwing more dirt on him rather than giving him a hand up.

I am sure that NO ONE ELSE EVER post on THR with out sitting down, completely thinking through their argument, and proof-reading it to ensure it is correct.

Lets just all relax and get along.

V4Vendetta
April 26, 2006, 01:10 PM
Thank you fink.

I never said that because they just used bullets that they messed up. I never even implied it. It sounds like from their story, they have some pretty quick thinkers & that is a good quality to have especially in a war zone. Had I been in their shoes I probably would have done the same. But I'm no soldier. Wouldn't even pass the physical I hear they make you take.

BullfrogKen
April 26, 2006, 02:01 PM
So, you want to pass off the why didn’t they try this . . . statement as what? An, “if I was there” - or - something you’d do if you get attacked assertion?

I’m not trying to be a smart-@ss. Really. What I mean to say is this is what I’m talking about when you make statements like this and then get agitated when you get ridiculed. If you considered what you say, and how it comes across, before you said it, it might not bring you mockery.

If you had to face people actively hunting you, not a man just taking advantage of an opportunistic time to attempt a robbery, but a party of men hunting you like one hunts prey. . . and you shot and killed some of them . . . How would you feel if someone who has no experience at all facing armed men suggested you could have just winged them? And then cited a completely unrelated and dissimilar situation of how someone else successfully did just that in a book as proof it could be accomplished safely.

I bet you’d get kinda ticked, wouldn’t you?

The veteran comment didn’t reference war veterans; it includes anyone of a skilled trade, a machinist, a barber, a tailor, a chef, anyone that has over years mastered his craft. Anyone proficient in his art thinks it laughable, demeaning, and insulting when a greenhorn comes to him and suggests he think about doing his task differently because the new guy read it somewhere in a book.


You spent a LOT of time here, and have a LOT of posts. The forebearance of ignorant statements and apologizing for being unaware only lasts so long. If you want to be treated as a man and equal, it doesn't happen without conducting yourself like one.

RTFM
April 26, 2006, 02:21 PM
Bottom line.
(Silly wabbit Teaser aside...:what: )

We won - they lost! Our boys are are safe after the engagement.

Justin
April 26, 2006, 03:45 PM
Biting my tongue and closing this one.

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