How low would you go?

[sonny]

Where would you draw the line as far as what make or model of handgun you would trust your life with?....Sure we all have our favorites but if you were a soldier or a leo and you were issued a (fill in the blank )would you feel safe?........Caliber aside where do you draw the line?

[MJRW]

I would not trust:

Smith and Wesson semi-autos
Charter Arms
Any titanium revolver

I'm only discussing stuff that is accepted already. I'm not even trying to name every Lorcin, Jennings, and Raven and so forth out there.

[sonny]

Why not a ti revolver?

[MJRW]

If its being used in a combat situation, that might mean lots of rounds. The expansion rate difference between titanium and the steel can cause the revolver to malfunction.

[Standing Wolf]

I occasionally carry a .380 A.C.P., but consider the .357 magnum to be the basis self-defense round. I wouldn't trust a revolver that wasn't made by Ruger, Colt, or Smith & Wesson.

[Skunkabilly]

I'd hate to say this, but I wouldn't go on doodie with a 1911 if they didn't give me 1000 rounds to run through it first, and pay for it to be fixed if I found anything wrong with it.

[Jim March]

Well in terms of *cost*, there's any number of used blue 38Spl wheelguns by S&W/Colt/Taurus that ('cept for California :banghead: ) run around $200. And IF you know exactly what it is you're looking at, add early Charter Arms to that list but you have to study both the breed and the specimen very closely.

I consider those a functional minimum combat gun. The Colt Police Positive Special is probably the best, as it was "+P rated" going back much further than a similar size S&W.

A little more and you can add stainless, 357, the Ruger Service/Security series, etc.

[Daniel Flory]

I pretty much am at my low point: Springfield Loaded model. Basically I place my minimum at the Springfield/Colt 1911s, Makarovs, Glocks, CZs, or solid revolvers like S&W, Colt or Ruger. If someone handed me any of those I would feel reasonably well armed.

[JPM70535]

MJRW

What do you find NA about S&W Autos? I have never owned one that was not dead-bang reliable and possessed of reasonable accuracy. Thats more than I can say for some 1911s that have to visit a custom shop before they can be relied on.

I would trust any 357 revolver by Ruger,S&W, Taurus or Colt. I would not trust any 25 auto, no matter who the maker was, and I would feel completely at ease with a 44 mag. by S&W or Taurus.

[Bowlcut]

HiPoint???? :confused:


Hehehehe had to. Id probaly limit myself to a keltec p32. I personaly dont like snubby revolvers, just dont fit my big hands well. But really any gun Id likely put my hopes in to help me out...then again Im stupid :D

[VictorLouis]

The expansion rate difference between titanium and the steel can cause the revolver to malfunction.
So, you don't think the engineering staff of two of the world's largest gun manufacturers took this into account? :rolleyes: Do you have even an ancedotal account of just such a malfunction?

Might
Just
Rethink your
Words

[Spackler]

I would not trust:
Smith and Wesson semi-autos

Is this based on actual experience, or are you just parroting what you've heard from others?
I think you might be out of your mind.

[J Miller]

Thats more than I can say for some 1911s that have to visit a custom shop before they can be relied on.

I read this a lot. What is all this hatred and distrust for 1911's?
Is it from personal experiance or are you just prejudiced against the bread?
Every one I have ever owned has functions quite well. Some exceptionally well. Of course I never altered them from the basic design, and kept the springs in good order.
In all the 1911 varaints I have owned, (all full sized) only one was cranky, an Auto Ordinance. With a new full power recoil spring it worked. No big deal.

If you can't tell weather a gun will work or not, in less than a 1000 rounds, you don't know what you are looking at.

[Jim March]

VictorLouis:

I read the Revolver forum pretty regularly, here and back on TFL. Most of the criticisms I've ever seen of Taurus guns has involved the TI line.

Not scientific of course, but...it does suggest TI guns are harder to do right. Especially since Taurus sells a lot more regular steel (stainless and blue) than TI.

[MJRW]

VictorLouis,

There have been sufficient reportings including the report of one friend of mine of a Ti revolver failing for just the reason I stated. If you have some evidence to the contrary, please, present it. I do think the two of the largets manufacturers took this into account. But Ti guns were not made as combat pistols or range pistols. They were designed as carry and self-defense. You know what, the way you worded that is so agonizingly arrogant, I'm done responding to you.

Others,

I've experience with Smith & Wesson semi-autos. A couple worked no problems at all, a couple were horrible. I ain't saying you can't trust your life with them. I'm just saying that from my experience, they weren't reliable enough for me to bet my life on. Smith revolvers are a different story.

[Traithe]

I would not trust any of the following:

Hi-Point
Jennings/Bryco/Cobra or whatever they are going by now
AMT/Galena
Charter Arms/Charter 2000
Anything made in South Africa
Any new fly by night company with a cheap pistol or revolver

Just like everything you get wht you pay for. If you can't afford much, I'd get a used S&W or Taurus revolver.

[VictorLouis]

When I read your post, I just perceived it as some half-baked, blanket condemnation posted with a know-it-all attitude. I responded in kind. It's obvious from your reply that you didn't intend it that way. While the guns may not, in fact, be intended for "lots of rounds...in a combat situaion", I'm not convinced that they would fail in such circumstances.

I've had two Ti-alloy .38 Spec. S&Ws which have been emptied, reloaded, emptied, reloaded and emptied again as fast as I could. They did not function any differently than their all-steel, or steel-alloy cousins. These S&Ws have been in the hands of LEOs for several years. LEO quals typically run 50-60rds. There's been no red-flags raised that I'm aware of. If there's something markedly different when you up-the-ante to the Magnum Scandium-Ti series, I just don't know. However, I know of at least one LE poster that's qualified successfully with one using magnum ammo.

Your assertion could apply to the steel and aluminum Airweights that have been a mainstay of the S&W line-up for decades. Again, such problems of that nature haven't surfaced. BTW, please provide me a link to your friend's negative experience if you posted about it somewhere. I'm certainly open to the negatives out there as well as the positives.:)

Jim, I don't make a routine practice of handling Taurus guns. They are well-known for having to exercise their famous Lifetime Warranty.:rolleyes: That said, they do make some interesting and innovative guns, for sure. From the smattering of those that I have handled, my memory recalls their Ti models displaying better QC, overall. My buddie's new Tracker being an exception, unfortunately, as it's ratchet was rubbing on the recoil-shield. As to the sales figures, it just makes sense that the more affordable steel models of any gun would outsell the pricier, 'space-age' Ti versions at significantly higher prices.

[Jim March]

As to the sales figures, it just makes sense that the more affordable steel models of any gun would outsell the pricier, 'space-age' Ti versions at significantly higher prices.

Of course. Which is why it's a bit disturbing that more complaints on Taurus TIs seem to show up on the revolver forum than complaints about Taurus steel guns...

[sm]

I have 1911 styles and K frames. I am most familar with these. I'm blessed with the fact 1911's run for me when they won't for others. I own only one DAO plastic gun and that is a Keltec P-11 which has been flawless. I will admit Sigs, Beretta's are nice, but I haven't spent enough time with the DA/SA platform. It's comical that Glocks hate me, NIB sights fall off and triggers break...

Its a given some guns were made for sales and not to be shot.

So "being issued....trusting my life", give me a 1911 style or wheelgun. BHP, Security Six, used model 10, 19, etc. IMO as Jim touched on-again- too many good used wheelguns that would better serve the user than the more expensive -revo or semi.

I'm big about gun fit to the user, I want to be able to make sure ammo/gun are reliable together. For $ 250 -300 one can get a used model 10, ammo, holster and defend better than $800 spent and can't afford to shoot the darn thing, to see if ammo/gun/shooter are compatible IMO.

Don't go below what you know--that works for you.

[foghornl]

I have one of the Rohm/RG snubby .38Spl's that was my late father-in-laws emergency-only BUG. Not fired much, and if I run through Jim March's revo checkout guide, it is in decent shape. That is about the lowest grade that I would use.

Wish I could get my sis-in-law to put away that Raven Arms .25. I have even offered her unlimited use of my Ruger KP-90, if she would trade me that Raven for it.

And before you ask, No, I am not out of my mind. Just want her to have a better weapon with 3 spare magazines, and so I sleep at night without worrying about her. Sissy lives by herself, about 50 miles away. Think the people (?) around the corner from her may be shall we say "bartering in recreational pharmaceuticals".

[Boats]

The "lowest" I would go, and these certainly aren't dogs, is CZ 75/85 or Ruger P-series in pistols, and Ruger SP/GP in revolvers. These companies define minimum base quality for my reference.

If what I am looking at from a competitor to these two companies doesn't compare favorably in quality of build, or worse, costs hundreds more for nothing inherently "better," features-wise, I won't buy it.

[MJRW]

Boats,

I'm confused as to what you mean with quality regarding Rugers. Are you saying they are as low as you go or that they do the minimum to create functional gun?

[firestar]

Good thread, kind of a twist.

If it were for military use and not just for CCW, then my choices are more limited. The cheapest I would go and still feel good about it are:
Semi autos:
Bersa .380 ($200 new)
Kel-Tec P-11 9mm ($230 new)
Ruger P series 9mms ($2-300 new and used)
S&W autos ($175 and up used)
FEG 9mms ($200-300 new)
Makarov 9x18mm (($130-175 used)
Star Firestar 9mm ($2-300 used)

Revolvers:
Charter Arms ($150-250 used)
S&W ($100 and up depending on model) a model 10 can be bought for about $100
Ruger Speed, Secuirty, Service Six ($175-$300 used)
Colt (little pricey but if a cheap one was found, it would do)

If it were military issue and it had to be new, the cheapest I would feel confortable with would be either a Ruger P-series or a FEG. You can get either for under $300 new and they are reliable and well made for such a inexpensive gun.

[Boats]

I'm confused as to what you mean with quality regarding Rugers. Are you saying they are as low as you go or that they do the minimum to create functional gun?

What I am saying is that at the intersection of price and quality of manufacture, Ruger and CZ make the least expensive quality products I will buy. Other people might think there are even less expensive quality firearms, but these companies represent my personal minimum. I might buy something more expensive, but it will be because it is a 1911, (A system I prefer over the P-series or CZ setups), or offers something else those companies don't.

The commonality of Ruger and CZ is their use of quality castings. I have nothing specific against castings as I want both a CZ and a Ruger GP-100 as my next two purchases, but I prefer forged and machined pistols if my past is an indicator. That said, CZ and Ruger both have world-class casting facilities, do not rely on outsourcing or subcontracting, and have both been in business long enough, and smartly enough, that I have no questions about their reputations like I might about S&W or Colt at the moment. I am watching the SA-XD with interest, but IM Croatia needs more of a track record for my tastes. I bought the Springer I feature in my sig line because Imbel in Brazil also meets my criteria of having world class capabilities and vast experience making firearms.

I don't consider myself snobby, but every firearm I buy has to have some sort of pedigree from a reputable sire. No Kel-Tecs, Kahrs, Rohrbaughs, or the next great thing from South Africa for this consumer, not without some hint of a track record or knowledge of the unimpeachability of the manufacturing process and the design being offered.

[Powderman]

Not too sure. I know that I would have a really hard time trusting a Rossi revolver or a Star .45. I've seen both of them malfunction.

The older SW semi's were another breed, too. I've fired some that I named "Timex". I had a friend who fired a new 4506 eight times--then the extractor fell out of the gun.

I personally would not carry a Hi-Point if you paid me--still, I know a cop who uses one as a back-up gun!!

This, after multiple stoppages during qualification. Go figure.:banghead:

And this, after some of the guys laughed at me for carrying a G27 instead of a J-frame.

[Andrew Wyatt]

i'd not go on duty with any gun unless i had 1000 rounds of the ammo which i'd go on duty with to shoot in it, time to shoot it, and parts for me to fix it with if it breaks.

[Powderman]

Andrew, that would get to be a real expensive proposition, real quick. :)

I appreciate the wisdom of what you're saying, but I save money by doing the following:

1. Get the same bullet weight that you are going to be carrying or using.

In my case, for my .45 that was simple; 230 grain is most common.

2. Duplicate the ballistics.

Again, no problem with a chronograph.

3. Load at least 4-500 rounds with the bullet that historically gives the most feeding problems in that caliber.

I used two excellent candidates in that department: the Speer 200 gr JHP (flying ashtray) and the Hornady 200 gr C/T JSWC.

Happy to day, my Colt gave no problems.

My Glock also is utterly reliable. It would feed empty beer cans and sharp edged bricks if I could figure a way to stuff some in the magazine.

[surfinUSA]

Is this a question about guns we don't own but would get if we had to? If so here is my list based on what I've had the oppertunity to use combined with what experiences friends and acquaintances have had.

Revolvers
Smith & Wesson, Colt and Ruger

Semi Auto
Sig, Glock, Beretta, HK, Smith & Wesson, CZ, Colt and Ruger.

I'll admit it, I'm a gun snob. I know the above guns work so thats what I'd buy. I've shot a lot of other guns that will remain nameless that I wouldn't buy.

As far as caliber goes, I'd go down to a .22 if I had to in the right gun.