[cavman]

I am seeking a great .22 for accuracy and quality.

It seems that there are at least two that fit the accuracy and quality criteria.

Could I get some opinions please?

thanks and have a great day
cavman

ps I have a Ruger Mark III hunter .22

[Gixerman1000]

Guess what I voted for :)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/Gixerman1000/6228.jpg
I own a Buckmark Micro and two MkII’s, a standard and a competition target and the 41 is my favorite 22 pistol by far.

The trigger is awesome, the action is smooth as glass, it’s easy to clean, it’s extremely accurate and it has been totally reliable so far (other than a few duds) with over 2500 rounds through it.

Mine will even run all day on the cheap Federal 550 value packs that I use for just plinking around, when I’m trying a little harder CCI standard velocity and Green Tag has worked very well for me.


I'm sure the Trailside is a nice pistol although from what I hear they have had more than a few problems.

[Standing Wolf]

Out of the box, my model 41 was a dog. After replacing the recoil spring and investing some dollars in gunsmithing, it turned out to be a very reliable, accurate pistol, although I didn't appreciate the rear sight falling off again and again. The magazines are steel, fairly inexpensive, and can be taken apart for cleaning.

The Trailside has a pretty good reputation for accuracy and reliability in bullseye circles, but you might watch for a couple problems and/or potential problems: some models can't be disassembled for cleaning without removing scopes, and the plastic magazines developed quite a reputation for fragility.

No easy answers. Sorry.

[Master Blaster]

The Trailside has a pretty good reputation for accuracy and reliability in bullseye circles

Really???? I belong to a club that participates in NRA Bullseye, and sends members to Camp Perry every year, for the last 50 years. I have been to a number of matches and never seen a single Trailside, not one. The Model 41 is very popular more than half of the competitors shoot them, many also use an accurized Ruger MKII when they are starting out.

More experienced folks use Sako, and Hammerli competition pistols that are in the $2-3000 range.

My model 41 has not needed any gunsmithing or adjustment in 50,000+ rounds fired in the last 9 years.

I would go with the 41.

[JoeHatley]

I tested a Sig Trailside, and it was a pretty nice shooter. But after talking with the owner about reliability problems, I went with the S&W. (Which is were I was probably going to end up anyway.)

http://www.iowatelecom.net/~hatley/41_r.jpg

Joe

[Graystar]

My M41 has been perfect out of the box. The trigger is great and there are no mechanical issues like rear sight falling off. It's a great gun.

[SwampWolf]

As Master Blaster noted, if you want a real consensus among serious Bullseye shooters as to which of the two pistols in question are preferred by them, go to a Camp Perry shoot and do a survey. "Exotic" and pricey Hammerlis, etc. aside, you will find the Smith 41 reigning supreme with the Ruger Mark target offerings trailing a distant second. It's been this way for a long, long time.

[cavman]

Thanks everyone.

I guess I will only have to decide to go for the $700 used model with no pre-screwed top and an "older" rear sight, or for the brand spanking new one for $900 something that has been tapped for dot scope and a "newer/better" sight.

Appreciate all the assistance.
Have a great day
cavman

[JMusic]

I have a 1959 vintage model 41. Pound and a half trigger, shoots better than most rifles.

[JoeHatley]

You might want to price shop a bit. I paid $735 locally for mine a month ago, and www.budsgunshop.com has them for $750.

Good Luck...

Joe

[usp_fan]

As much as I love my Sig trailside, sig has pulled all support for them in the wake of the walther purchase of hamerilli. There have been enough problems with this platform, that if you don't have good customer support, I wouldn't get one. The model 41 is a classic.

-usp_fan

[cavman]

$750, no kidding. That's great. The one at Greentop (Ashland, Va.) is the longer barreled version ~7"

I have seen mixed reviews as to which length is preferable for accuracy. Longer is better according to some. Others suggest that the slight twitch which accompanies every trigger pull has a lesser effect with a shorter barrel.

+25 for shipping from Bud's
+10 FFL fee
+ 5% tax that my FFL charges me (~$38)
=~$825

What do you think? Get the shorty from Bud's? Or ~$950 for the longer barrel from Greentop? Is the extra $100 for the longer barrel worth it?

thanks
cavman

[Rembrandt]

Trailside is a nice pistol, but not in the same league as the 41....for bullseye shooting the S&W would be the best choice.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v405/Rembrandt51/Model41-1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v405/Rembrandt51/5.jpg

[cavman]

Alright then, Bud's can get the 7" for $800, a full $150 less than my local shop, a full $125 even after shipping, taxes, and FFL fee are factored in.

Any opinions on the 5 1/2" vs the 7"?

About to pull the trigger here and could use some advice on which is better.

thanks and have a great day
cavman

[SwampWolf]

I shoot a lot of Bullseye and prefer the 5 1/2" barrel but that's a purely subjective and individual thing. Nobody can tell you what's best for you except you.

[cavman]

I guess you are right SWolf, it will come down to personal preferences. Hard to tell before it has been experienced tho'. Its about $50 between the 5 1/2" and the 7" from Bud's. ($750, $800)

My local shop had only the 7" in store to get a feel of. Felt good.

thanks
cavman

[Onmilo]

I don't think anybody has mentioned it but the Trailside pistols have the rear sight recoiling with the slide.
The Smith 41 and any true target grade pistol, will have the rear sight remaining stationary on a seperate platform as the slide recoils.

This allows the sights to remain on target and in the shooters line of sight during rapid fire events.

I own a Model 41 myself and frankly it is the best pistol in the class.

The next step up are Pardini and Walther GSP pistols at about three times the cost.

[Graystar]

Any opinions on the 5 1/2" vs the 7"?
Get the 5 ½”. The sight radius on guns with 7” barrels is too long. This creates two significant problems that interfere with accurate sighting. First, when you focus on the front sight, the rear sight is more out of focus with a 7” barrel than a 5 ½” barrel. The extra fuzziness makes it more difficult to get good alignment. Second, with a 7” barrel the front post tends to “dance” more in the rear notch. This can cause you to hold too long while you’re waiting to “settle in.”

That said, if you’re going to use a red-dot sight then get the 7” barrel and have it cut down. The reason is that the 7” barrel weighs the same as the 5 ½” barrel. By getting the longer barrel and having a pro like Lou Lombardi at Falcon Machining cut it down for you, you can offset the weight of the red-dot a bit and also improve the balance of the gun.

[cavman]

What's Lou charge for a cut job? His number that I found on mad ogre's site 602 482 7333 is not in service

[Graystar]

What's Lou charge for a cut job? His number that I found on mad ogre's site 602 482 7333 is not in service
Hmmm...I guess he's still not taking new customers. Here's his website:

http://www.falconmachining.com/

There's this message on there:
April 2005: Falcon Machining is in the process of moving to a new location and Lou is presently not taking any new customers due to the move and due to his large backlog of work. Contact information will be provided here at such time as his workload permits. Sorry for any inconvenience.
Guess he's still working on his backlog? :confused:

In any case, you shouldn't do anything until you are intimately familiar with your gun’s every little nuance. This is true for any gun. The reason is that you can’t really tell if a change is an improvement or not unless you have a very good sense of the “before.” Only then can you properly assess the value of the “after.” The last thing you want to do is make the gun worse for you and not know it.

[cavman]

Are all the 41's pictured here the shorties version the ones with the smooth barrel? And the one with the groove with the weights the 7"?

thanks
cavman

[Rembrandt]

Only models available that are currently in production are the 7" & 5.5" versions. Earlier 41's were offered with several barrel options (see below).

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v405/Rembrandt51/Model41comp.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v405/Rembrandt51/7952ae6f.jpg

[Sactown]

Other. IZH35M. Outshoots my Ruger MkII and Trailside Comp. Depends on what you want to shoot.

[JMusic]

I had a 5 in. model prior to the one I own now. The 5 was nice. I'm not a target shooter but wanted a high grade plinker. At the time the choices were good High Standards line, Colts Match target, and the 41. By far the 41 was the best. It may surprise some but my second choice of all the pistols I have owned and shot would be the High Standard Model H-D.
Jim

[Nail Shooter]

I have both of those guns (and numerous other top-of-the line 22's), no question I'd go with the Smith. Both guns (that I own) are comparable for accuracy and the triggers are pretty close, but the Smith is pure class. No probs w/ the Smith in 25 yrs of shooting it. It is also NOT picky about ammo. You can buy factory 12 rd mags for the Smith too. You can buy the Sig for a reasonable price from CDNN right now.

Better than both of those is my Hamden High Std Victor. Awesome trigger and accuracy just a touch better--enough to make it my best shooter.

NS

[Majic]

With Bud's Gunshop being in Kentucky why is your Va. FFL charging you tax unless you are buying it from him? You should buy it directly from Bud's and just pay your FFL the transfer fees.

[Zen21Tao]

I am partial to my Kimber Rimfire target. It is extremely accurate and provides me with the familiar feel of my 1911 which helps me enhance my shooting with my 1911s as well.

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/9803/kimberrimfiretarget1aw.jpg

[cavman]

Exactly what I thought.

I have dealt with him twice and he seems sincere and on the up and up. Seems very cautious and careful about dotting his i's and crossing his t's.

Regarding the taxes he said that because the two private owners (not business) would not be set up for taxes in the first place I wouldn't be paying them. Then something about having to report on one's 1040 all the stuff that you (i.e. me) bought out of state so the State could collect taxes on the items that you didn't pay taxes on....I don't know.

Secondly, he said that he was worried about the IRS coming after him if he ever got audited and saw that X number of guns went through his hands and no sales taxes were paid. Something about him being the "real owner" of the guns. I hope I am remembering everything correctly as the "ownership" question still befuddles me.

I still don't buy it,tho'. However, he still charges me a 5% sales tax.

I am glad that I am not the only one that is skeptical about being charged sales tax.

have a great day
cavman

edit: I just had a thought .Perhaps he reports the guns' $$ value that goes through his hands, and turns over the sales tax that he gets from people like me to the IRs?

[CraigJS]

Benelli MP95E, Nils grips, SUPER shooter..

[thomas15]

caveman,

Several things.

I would shop around for the M41. As others have said, it is a great target shooter. I have the 7" barrel personally but the 5.5 ok. As others have also said, having the 7" cut to approx. 6" to use with a red dot sometime in the future is something you may want to consider. However, either way, you can buy replacement barels for this gun. One other kudo for the M41, I would never sell mine, it is the only gun that I own that I will not part with.

I have very limited bullseye experience. Having said that, I have never seen a sig, benelli or kimber used in this particular competition. But thats just my experience. You will see some Rugers, some Brownings, High Standards (used by some of the old timers), Walthers (and that Russian made gun simular to the Walthers) and Hammerlis. Basically I second what Master Blaster has said. As mentioned, the Rugers MK IIs have to be worked on to be compeditive and this costs money. You can go right into bullseye competition with an M41 right out of the box. Mine is a little fussy about ammo, it hates CCI. It loves Eley target pistol which is expensive but I get good results with Remington std velocity 22 target available at wally world. I would not use high velocity ammo in mine, there is some contraversy about this but there is nothing to gain in my opinion by using HV so I only use std. velocity.

I'm very confused on the sales tax issue. You will be paying for the gun, your FFL is only doing the transfer. Ask another FFL to complete the transfer.

Check out gunsamerica.com, there are many M41s for sale there.

Tom

[Onmilo]

I am not sure how it works in the rest of planet United States, but in Illinois the dealer must charge sale tax on his transfer fee.
I.E. $20.00 fee+7.5% tax=$25.00 fee total to you.
If you paid for the merchandise, he is not required to charge sales tax on the amount of the sale, just the transfer fee portion, the state would love to change that but it hasn't happened yet.
There is a catch however.
If the dealer handled the transaction completely, including paying the other dealer for the merchandise, then he would be correct and required to charge sales tax on the full amount of the sale.
Check local state tax office for instructions on how this works where you live.

[Grayrock]

How about a Colt Woodsman Match Target?

[Grayrock]

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=39738&d=1147096705Colt

[Igloodude]

You might check with Larry Clark (of http://www.larrysguns.com/default.htm in Maine) on the Trailside, up until recently he offered signature versions of them.

In our winter Bullseye League, I've seen a couple Trailsides, but also a half-dozen M41s (including my own). Pricing being equal, I'd go with a '41. My usual barrel is a 7" cut-down to 5.5" with a dot, like what Graystar is talking about.