[rcellis]

Is using the slide release to be discouraged?

Clint

[10-Ring]

I was always told not to drop a slide on an empty chamber...so, use the slide release as you prepare to shoot and manually close slide if you're otherwise handling the gun.

[brewer90]

I used to use the slide release and was taught that in the military. Then I took a class last year and they said to pull the slide back and release to chamber the round. The reason was that your fine motor skills deteriorate under stress and there is a chance you won't be able to operate the lever so pull and release the slide which is a gross motor skill.

[Rexrider]

I prefer to use the slide release. After a magazine is loaded I can return my weak (left) hand back to a shooting grip and use my weak hand thumb to release the slide as I bring the handgun back on target. This brings the handgun back in to action, so to speak, much faster than using the weak hand to grab the slide and releasing it. I have always practiced that way so it has become second nature to me.

brewer90 does have a point about what would happen in a high stress situation. In my opinion, either method is valid so long as you pick one and practice that way. Your body will do what it was taught even when your mind in a state of "freaking out", as long as you practice enough.

[Shawn Dodson]

Suggest you stop thinking of it as a "slide release" and think of it as a "slide lock." Operate it only to lock the slide open. All other times just retract and release the slide. The practice facilitates economy of movement by employing the same motor skills over and over, plus it reduces your mental load. Your brain doesn't have to determine what technique to use when different situations are encountered - you just manipulate the slide and drive on. Progressive, non-diagnostic, stoppage clearing is a perfect example:
Misfire.
Perform tap, roll & rack (using overhand method to grasp slide).
Misfire.
Perform Combat Reload.
If Combat Reload cannot be completed because installed magazine failed to jettison when magazine release was pressed, immediately proceed to next step.
Store fresh magazine between ring & pinky fingers of firing hand.
Lock slide open.
Forcibly remove installed magazine.
Vigorously rack slide three times to clear chamber.
Complete Combat Reload.

[66gt350]

In the CCW class I took a year or so back, the instructor said that you should always pull the slide back and never user the slide release. The reasoning is that with the slide locked back the release is under pressure. And by just using the release you will over time do damage do the gun, by slowly wearing the metal down around the catch in the slide.

Don't know if it's true or not...I always pull back the slide and let it slam shut on a cartridge. Or if the chamber is empty let the slide close slowly.

[Ohen Cepel]

I'm sure I'll get flamed by all the Glock guys out there who have tried to turn their Glocks into 1911's. However, that pistol in particular is meant to have the slide pulled instead of being released. That's why the slide release is so small on a Glock, it was only meant to lock the slide back, not be like a 1911. The thought is/was that you get a more consistent group if the slide is pulled to the rear for the first round as it is for all the other rounds. Also, I think the large muscle arguement is a good point.

I don't think that 1/2 an inch or so of travel makes a big difference in groups myself. However, if you're getting a "flyer" in your pistol groups you may want to try pulling it to the rear and seeing if it matters.

I do tend to pull the slide to the rear myself.

[RNB65]

Either method works fine as long as it puts the slide into battery.

[jashobeam]

I thought it had to do with metal on metal wear.

[Grunt]

Here's a question for the argument that using the slide release is a gross motor skill that you will have trouble using during stress. If you can't use a slide release under stress, how about the magazine release that is just as small (or smaller) than the slide release or how about the trigger as far as that goes? Don't these other controls also require a fine motor skill as well? :scrutiny:

[BullfrogKen]

I pull the slide and release.

As in Shawn Dodson's post, its a non-diagnostic technique. I can use it on any semi-auto, no matter where the slide lock is as in the way Sig has it elsewhere, or on pistols with none at all, like a Kel-Tec.

It instills a universal skill, and cooperates with learning the immediate action drills.

The only time I've seen it won't work is on some 1911's when folks use Shock-buffs.

[ABBOBERG]

So what is the purpose of the slide lock/release if it is not generally preferred over pulling on the slide with the weak hand? Is it for when the weak hand is disabled? I would think that most gun manufactures could leave the slide lock/release off and simplify the manufacture of their guns.

[Jamie C.]

I use the slide release, since, I figure, if I wasn't supposed to, it'd not have that handy little button-thingy on it.

Also, I can't think of any good reason that there'd be more metal-on-metal wear with it than any other two parts of the gun that rub together... like the slide and the frame, or the hammer (if the gun has one ) and the back/bottom edge of the slide.

The point being here that I think it's a non-issue, and you should use whatever manner or means you like the best and are comfortable with. *shrug*


J.C.

[real_name]

If a slide lock/release requires a fine motor skill then what hope do we have operating the trigger?

j/k

[Rexrider]

Shawn Dodson posted an excellent and practical technique. I see his point that grabbing the slide on a reload will be the same motion for a misfire drill. No argument there. Keep in mind you still need to practice over and over to allow your body to complete this drill without having to think about what you are doing.

For me, as I said, I have always used the slide stop/release. I also practice misfire drills as Shawn posted. Using the slide release on a reload has not interfered with my ability to perform a misfire drill. If I pull the trigger and nothing happens, my hand goes to the slide and the drill begins. Right or wrong, this is how my handgun shooting evolved.

Side Note: One way to practice misfire drills is to have someone load a snap cap in your magazine. It works even better if you have several mags loaded and one with a snap cap so you don't know when to expect it. I will take a few times for you to react to the misfire. It is quite the eye opener when you first stand there like a zombie not knowing what happened or what to do. But that's okay, the more you do it, the faster you will react and completed the drill. Don't worry about speed at first. Just get through all the steps. Your speed will increase on it's own.

I did want to add one point concerning metal-to-metal wear when using the slide stop/release. I personally have never seen any wear on the slide or slide stop on my handguns. Having said that, the handguns I own at this time are not that old. The oldest one is a stainless Kimber 1911 I have had for 5 yrs now. No wear is visible on the slide or stop. My Glocks are younger but no signs of wear either. As a matter of fact, the black finish is still on the slide where the stop makes contact. I am pretty sure the stamped metal slide stop will wear before the slide does.

The bottom line is you will have to decide what works best for you. But whatever you do, do it consistently and do it a lot.

Cheers

[Guns_and_Labs]

My first instructor said use the slide release, and practice, practice, practice.
My gunsmith said use the slide release, "that's why they call it a 'slide release'".
In competition, using the slide release demonstrably saves time.

I use the slide release, and accept the possible wear and tear.

[isp2605]

"how about the magazine release that is just as small (or smaller) than the slide release or how about the trigger as far as that goes? Don't these other controls also require a fine motor skill as well? "

Not for the internet commandos. They don't think about those things, and choose to ignore them. Trigger control and sight alignment involves a lot more fine motor skills than hitting the slide release.
But if they want to continue believing it, let em. Probably the most dangerous and threatening thing that has ever happened to them is dropping their butter knife on their bare foot.
Rexrider gives a good example of getting back into action a lot quicker. Been thru a lot of tactical training and situations and the slide release lever is a lot quicker to get back in action.

[Shootcraps]

+1 for Jamie C's post. He speaks true.

[Mulliga]

I always slingshot it back. My primary CCW is a CZ RAMI; the slide release on that gun is an afterthought for the American market - very thin and stiff. I would not want to rely on it to release the slide.

Not all guns have slide releases, and some guns don't even have slide locks. Pulling the slide back works for them all. Sometimes you may be wearing thick gloves, your hands may be wet, etc. I just like to keep things consistent.

If all the guns you own have slide releases that are easy to use, I suppose there's no harm in using them. They are certainly faster and won't do any harm to the gun.

[farscott]

I like to sling shot because it is how I was trained; however, I have a pistol that, so far, will not allow me to chamber a round from slide lock with a sling shot. It is a Baer TRS Comanche, and there is not enough rearward slide travel to allow the slide lock to drop when retracting the slide.

From investigating, this appears to be a design issue as the Bear Comanche frame appears to be dimensioned like a five-inch frame with the dust cover cut back to Commander length. I need to compare the Comanche frame to a Colt Commander frame to get some accurate measurements of the differences. I believe that root cause is the Comanche recoil spring guide recess is not set as far back in the frame as the Commander.

[Kevinch]

Not all guns have slide releases, and some guns don't even have slide locks.

True - my little Walther doesn't have a release; you have to pull the slide back.

Another note: there is no danger of releasing the slide on an empty chamber if you aren't in the habit of using the slide release (assuming a mag is inserted).

[StrikeEagle]

The reason was that your fine motor skills deteriorate under stress and there is a chance you won't be able to operate the lever so pull and release the slide which is a gross motor skill.

I generally 'slingshot' just to avoid extra wear on slide/slide stop. But I do question this 'fine motor skill' thing. It's been pointed out that it's impossible to work the slide stop incorrectly... and it's CHECKERED on top for better purchase. But... it IS possible to 'slingshot' incorrectly, by 'riding' the slide home, even a bit. (Maybe THAT is the 'fine motor skill'?) :D

StrikeEagle

[Bix]

I have moved from using the slide release to overhanding the slide. I found that, under the slight pressure of a competitive event or qualifying drill in a class, I would occassionally hit the slide release with my strong-side thumb an instant before I'd fully seated a fresh magazine.

The result, obviously, is that the slide would drop on an empty chamber, and I'd get a 'click' instead of a 'bang'. I recognize that this is a sequencing/training issue, but it's not one that shows up in practice. This has only happened a couple times when I was trying to hit a reload at warp speed in a class or in a match.

So, until I can get a solution sorted out, I've gone to overhanding. It is unquestinoably slower, but -at least for me, for now- it's more positive.

[JDGray]

If doing speed drills, its faster for me to drop the slide stop with my left thumb. 99% of the time , I just pull the slide back. It's good to be proficeint at both.

[AirForceShooter]

I'm a lefty and I use the slide lock to drop the slide into battery.
It's a cheap part and I've never had one wear out anyway.

AFS

[ball3006]

so I just pull the slide back and let her go.......chris3

[brewer90]

Regarding fine vs gross motor skills. The last I heard from a class attendee was that Gunsite and Front Sight both taught releasing the slide via pulling back vs the slide stop for the fine motor skill reason.

I googled the subject and found these three plus a whole lot of conjecture in forums which I didn't link to.

www.sigarmsacademy.com/pdf/Velocity-Harris-LHtrain.pdf page 2
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTT/is_143_23/ai_56221627
http://www.gunweek.com/2000/feature1210.html

I didn't see any concrete evidence or studies on loss of fine motor skills affecting ability to operate the slide stop but there is blurb in the gunweek link about a SWAT officer getting shot because he was fumbling with his slide release.

[30-06 lover]

I use a USP and don't have to worry about it. Slide locked back, insert magazine with the right amount of force and the slide shuts on its own. I love the USP.
-Mike

[Walt Sherrill]

Just came back from an IDPA match tonight. One of the guys shooting with us is a long-time (one-time internationally ranked) IPSC shooter, IDPA Master, and a professional shooter. For the past two years he has been working with the US military as a firearms instructor. He's also spent a good deal of time training security personnel for a number of the larger US firms with operations in South America and Mexico.

I asked him about his thought on this matter.

He and his partners have been working with a wide range of US military shooters, ranging from the Special Ops people at Bragg to Marine Force Recon troops, to just average GIs who are going into combat. The experience levels varies from rank beginner to very, very good.

He says that all instructors he has been working with are training our folks to USE THE SLIDE RELEASE to send the slide forward after reload.

Why do this rather than the traditional SLING SHOT method?

Because they've found in combat, under stress and pressure, when the sling-shot method is used, about half the time the gun doesn't go into battery.

Keep in mind, too, that if you use your offhand, and use the tips of all four fingers, to grab and push the release, you've really changed what MIGHT have been a fine-motor skill technique into something that requires much less finesse.

[Shawn Dodson]

Additional info to consider:

I always install and seat a fresh magazine with the slide in battery. The reason is to condition myself to make sure I use enough pressure to overcome the resistance of the magazine spring as the top cartridge presses against the bottom of the slide. Experience has shown that I cannot always count on my slide being locked open during a Combat Reload because my grip sometimes interferes with engagement of the slide lock on the last shot. Secondly, the slide will not be locked open after I clear a double-feed stoppage. Finally, I always administratively load my pistol with the slide in battery, and then roll & rack to chamber a round. Thus, any time I install and seat a magazine, I automatically roll the pistol to point the ejection port at the ground & energetically rack the slide, even when performing a Combat Reload. (Rolling the pistol allows both centrifugal force and gravity to clear the action in situations where a case/cartridge is jammed in such a manner that it doesn't strike the ejector when the slide is retracted.)

I rack the slide with vigor, using the overhand method, as though I'm trying to tear the slide off the frame. My support hand slides off when the slide does not retract any further. This precludes the tendency to ride the slide back into battery.

Battle-oriented manipulations differ from competition-oriented manipulations in that battle-oriented manipulations are meant to be positive actions that help ensure successful completion of the task under extremely stressful and difficult conditions. In many cases, competition-oriented manipulations can be performed faster but do not provide the same level of positive control that battle-oriented manipulations do.

[old4x4]

I use the slide release. What else would you use it for? Much faster than fumbling with the slide and your fingers won't slip over it (at least for me)

[tsp45acp]

Until I worked for a local armed security co, I always used the slide release/stop. Had to qualify w/ a G23 (POS compared to even an average 1911 IMHO), can't find THAT slide release. After quitting that co and going back to my beloved 1911's, I returned to ALWAYS using the slide release. As the mag gets seated by the weak hand, the thumb naturally goes in the direction of the release. Hit the button and your back in the fight. Hand is already in the support position. Have shot in competition for approx. 7 yrs. and have always used the slide release when shooting from slide lock and fresh mag insertion. Its the way I taught myself and ingrained as my normal for training. I'd get myself shot using another type of firearm in a gunfight. I ONLY use and carry 1911's. Tracy

[Nostratic]

One benefit of racking the slide is that it works no matter what autoloader you pick up. If you carry a Glock and pick up a Beretta (assuming more than two people in this hypothetical fight), you can just rack it and not have to locate the release.

That said, I started focusing on racking the slide during reloads a couple of weeks ago and it still seems pretty natural. Prior to that I was using the slide release exclusively.

[ktd]

I say use whatever method you like, and if you need to replace parts, so be it, just keep an eye on it like everything else.

That being said, I have noticed that some 1911s will not drop the slide with the slingshot method, because the angle on the slide stop does not allow the detent pin to actually force it down out of lock, so you should always know your piece, or be ready to do something else if things do not work.

k

[Walt Sherrill]

Shawn wrote:

Battle-oriented manipulations differ from competition-oriented manipulations in that battle-oriented manipulations are meant to be positive actions that help ensure successful completion of the task under extremely stressful and difficult conditions. In many cases, competition-oriented manipulations can be performed faster but do not provide the same level of positive control that battle-oriented manipulations do.You seem to be saying that manually releasing/slingshotting the slide is safer in a combat environment.

What I noted above is that they're teaching the guys going into combat with handguns that racking the slide is, in fact, LESS safe in a combat situation.

The rigor and precision you cite in doing what you do may go out the window when you're running and ducking and trying to keep you head from being blown off. While competition is stressful, it certainly is not like getting shot at.

During the match I mentioned above, the guy was an instructor asked me why I was using cover the way I did -- he said I was concealing much more of my body than was required by IDPA standards. (He's a serious competitor and is always looking for an edge.) I said that I wanted to do it like I HOPED I would do in a real-world confrontation, and keep as much of me behind cover as I possibly could. I said I was chicken and didn't like the idea of being shot at.

He laughed and said, "yeah. It makes a difference when they're shooting at you." He mentioned having to visit the doctor with a rotator cuff problem during one of his training classes, his back and shoulders covered with WELTS from simunition hits.

When working with a group of Marines, they were doing a lot of force on force training with simunition. And while its SIMUNITION, it can be painful as hell. He said the doctor freaked out when she saw all of the bruises and damage from the simunition. He said, "don't worry about that -- that's trivial, my real problem is here, pointing to his shoulder." They try to make it as realistic as they can, without doing something stupid. So, in that environment he uses MORE cover rather than what the rules allow <grin>.

[AirForceShooter]

Pain is a wonderful teacher.

AFS

[shamus]

I pull it back.

[thewheelsonthebus]

first off self protection, you have 10 rounds you souldn't need another mag.
second range, push, pull, or flip the switch just make sure it puts lead down range where it's suposed to go. safety then comfort. big muscle, little muscle what gets you through the dance is the one you take home.

[JohnKSa]

Since I own four auto pistols that don't have a slide release, I use the "slingshot the slide" method. It should work universally.

[evan price]

If you properly maintain and lube your gun, using hte slide release won't harm your gun unless you cycle it a million times. Then it may just need a little polishing. Personal preference.

[Graystar]

I have an old Glock 17 where the previous owner used to use the slide release. Now, all I have to do is slam the mag home and the slide releases itself! :D

[birddog]

I use the slide-lock/release. Everyone here has made good points on both sides. For me, it's just natural. An economy-of-motion kind of thing. I'm dropping the slide as I'm getting the gun back up on target. It feels more smooth to me than racking the slide.

[STAGE 2]

Use the slide release. Any wear that there might be (which I'm not convinced of) can be easily remedied by spending 20 bucks on a new part.

[JohnKSa]

Any wear that there might be (which I'm not convinced of) can be easily remedied by spending 20 bucks on a new part.Not always... I've heard of more than one Glock where the wear was on the slide, not the slide release.

[carnaby]

I use the slide release, since, I figure, if I wasn't supposed to, it'd not have that handy little button-thingy on it.

Well, if you want to drop the slide on an empty mag, even with pulling back the slide, you need to be able to release the slide lock.

[carnaby]

Oh yeah, and no matter your technique with your own piece, you really ought to carefully drop the slide on other folks' guns. I also think this is good gun store etiquette, to pull the slide back and NOT slingshot the slide, but guide it back into position. Nothing makes the guys behind the counter grumpier than the perception that you're being mean to their weapons (wether or not that's really the case). :D

[LanEvo`]

There is one element that I'm surprised no one has touched upon yet: using 2 hands vs. just 1 hand. I don't like the idea of relying on 2 hands to do anything in a gunfight. By using the slide stop/release on my autoloaders, I can drop the slide with either hand.

I figure in a defensive situation, more likely that not you'll have only 1 hand available to you. The other might be needed to fend off an attacker or could have sustained damage in the fight. When I train, I make sure to do plenty of 1-handed shooting (both right AND left handed!), including practicing 1-handed reloads, drawing from concealment with the non-dominant hand, etc.

I used to be a dyed-in-the-wool revolver guy. If I had a choice between a 686 loaded with 6 rounds of 125gr JHP or an autoloader, I would have taken the wheelgun without hesitation. They're more comfortable for me, more accurate in my hands, dead reliable, and pack a serious wallop. The main reason why I switched to autoloaders (particularly, a CZ-97B and a Springfield 1911) for defensive use is the extreme difficulty of reloading a revolver with only 1 hand.

[Doggieman]

hell I'm so new to semis I didn't even know you could release the slide by pulling it back once it was locked :eek: .. however I use the slide release with my right thumb because it just feels cool to push that little button and feel the beast slam shut one handed. :cool:

[Bix]

LanEvo,

That doesn't seem like a real issue to me - there are numerous ways to run the slide one-hand-only without using the slide release. How else would we clear malfunctions one handed?

[Juna]

With my CZ 75 BD, I just insert the mag forcefully with a knock from the heel of my hand as I'm putting it in, and the slide releases itself forward just like with a USP. Problem solved. :D I love that feature in a pistol (USP, CZ 75BD, etc.).

But I could see the argument for "slingshotting" the slide since it's a more universal maneuvre, rather than fumbling with the short or non-existent slide releases on some guns.

[Jamie C.]

Well, if you want to drop the slide on an empty mag, even with pulling back the slide, you need to be able to release the slide lock.

True, but then there's probably quite a few situations where both hands are required to get the gun into a particular condition.

Over all, though, they are called handguns, not handSguns. So for me, being able to handle most of the weapon's operations with only one hand was intentional in the design, and shouldn't require 2 hands for anything past inserting the magazine.

One way or the other, I use the slide release, and tend to avoid autoloaders that don't have one.

But, as I've said, to each their own. *shrug*


J.C.

[LanEvo`]

That doesn't seem like a real issue to me - there are numerous ways to run the slide one-hand-only without using the slide release. How else would we clear malfunctions one handed?If you need to drop the slide one-handed, what's easier and quicker than pressing a button? Is it any easier or quicker to rack the slide against your boot heel?

[Bix]

Sorry, Lan - I thought the point you were making is that those of us who don't use the slide release have to rely on two hands to get the gun in battery. I was simply pointing out that we don't.

As to which is quicker, it's probably a training issue. On balance, the slide release is a bit slower for me, because it requires such different movements depending on which hand the gun is in. Right hand only, sweep the release with the thumb and you're done. Left hand only, I have to fish around with my trigger finger to get the release (again, a training issue) - I have to focus on it, and it feels unnatural and slow.

I use my belt to run the action one handed (and to clear malfuncitons one handed). It's the same, strong movement for both hands: right hand = roll the gun inboard and punch off the beltline; left hand = roll the gun inboard and punch off the beltline.

If I do drils both ways under a little artificial pressure, I wind up a little quicker overall with the belt technique. YMMV. :)

[Spec ops Grunt]

I dont believe any of this loss of motor skills affecting the slide releass. If it were true, a revolver reload during combat would be impossible.

[Srigs]

Depends on the gun. I can do either with the same ease.

[The Hitman]

Well A Prefer Pulling Back,More Style...Jeje:neener: In Other Words Some Gun Has A Slide Release In Only One Side,In This Form Always Is The Same!

[Glockman17366]

I rack the slide in either case, empty or after reloads. The only difference is after reload, I let the slide fly whereas I'll let it go forward slowly if an empty chamber.

I never use the slide release anymore. A gunsmith told me to use this method...I'd also read about it in an article about combat reloads. Racking rather then using the slide release makes sense to me.